The Quran a failed book written by Men

JinnJinn

16125 You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones.

O good genie
Where is it?

Every one is benefited
Even ahlul-kitab (followers of the scripture) during Muhammad's time knew the significance of number 19 in God's scripture.

The proof
1094 If you (Muhammad) have any doubt regarding what is revealed to you from your Lord, then ask those who read the previous scripture. Indeed, the truth has come to you from your Lord. Do not be with the doubters.
7430 Over it is nineteen.

1094 --> 10 + 94 = 104
7430 --> 74 + 30 = 104

AND
1094 --> 1+0 + 9+4 = 14
7430 --> 7+4 + 3+0 = 14

(Indication The verse 1094 is related to verse 7430)

OR you can go to this link for additional info
https//whoisourcreator.blogspot.com/2008/09/rabbi-judah-pious-witnesses.html
https//submission.org/Short_History_of_Miracle.html

Please differentiate the words "in the Masjid Al Haram" and "during his Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca"
Are you sure he saw a dream in "the Masjid Al Haram"!
https//submission.org/App2.html

Please see the link https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611307.10
Reply #15-18

My Question to you
There are five objectives of number 19 in verse 7431
Which one do you belong to?

7430 Over it is nineteen.
7431 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (nineteen)
(a) to disturb the disbelievers,
(b) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture),
(c) to strengthen the faith of the faithful,
(d) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and
(e) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did God mean by this allegory?" God thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.

Thank you.

My mind says you are a good and polite person like Japanese, but you are too much. So I give you a little respect.

Ya Halwa! Don't add words at your will to point out what is in your mind. There is no word 'KIND' in the verse 16'125.
Invite people who are unaware and what is the point of inviting those who are mocking by already knowing the verses and twisting them? Just say Salam and move on.

That's lots of questions hailed at me. You think I am an encyclopedia or tireless AI. You mean No. 19 your so-called Messenger invented, or you mean about No. 19 of the verse 74'30.

shukri

Peace Shukri.
Please check this conversation, I have checked and agree with the refutation

Dan Gibson was writing half fiction and doctored Academic research.

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK9jLw9v4Nw
GOD bless you.
Peace.

If you read my post in Reply #15-18 of this link https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611307.10
My finding was not solely depend on Dan Gibson discovery
Also not entirely bound to the points given by the thread starter Mr. Mahdi, our quranist brother
But it related mainly to mathematical analysis of verses

9107 And there are those who have taken a temple/masjid to do harm and cause rejection, and to divide between the believers, and as an outpost for those who fought God and His messenger before. They will swear that they only wanted to do good, and God bears witness that they are liars.
9108 Do not stand in it ever. A temple/masjid that is founded on righteousness from the first day is more worthy that you stand in it; in it are men who love to purify themselves. And God loves the purified.
9109 Is he who founds his building on obtaining righteousness from God and His acceptance better, or he who founds his building on the edge of a cliff which is about to crumble, so that it crumbled with him into the fires of Hell? And God does not guide the wicked people.
9110 Their buildings that they built continue to cause doubt in their hearts, until their hearts are severed. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.

Peace!
Thank you.

good_logic

Thanks brother Shukri.
I was just giving you that specific information.
For me GOD is every where, it is fine to believe your way . I have not got any issue with you following according to your faculties/findings.
You seem honest and best of luck to you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

centi50

Salam centi50

I have been following his videos for the past several years
I personally very appreciate his commentary on various issues about the Quran and our faith
He and his evangelist fellow Mr. Al Fadi (ex-muslim from Saudi Arabia) on some occasions has given me something to reflect about our faith/religion
Thanks a lot Mr. Jay and Mr. Fadi for your contribution!

The links
Jay Smith ... https//foclonline.org/users/jay-smith
Al Fadi ... https//cirainternational.com/

As a Muslim, I think we should respond to some important issues raised by them
AND as a start, I have contacted them and conveyed two brief messages for their attention/consideration, titled

The true Mecca/Becca is in Petra
Al Quran is the word of God

I'm not a scholar to debate with them but we should convey any input/message which we think they may not be aware of!

May God show us a straight path!
All praise be to God!

Thank you.

Salam bro,

You are right people in here should be able to respond to these evangelical Christians and show that they are understanding things wrong or are wrong

God bless all

centi50

He naively ignores what forensic linguistics is while building up his basic argument and stance.

Salam bro,

What is it that they ignore? Can you point it out? Or refute their claims

centi50

Here is the true narrative that both Traditional Muslims and Jay Smith are not able to refute in their so called debate
True Islam is not the religion of the Traditional Muslims not is it an identity of any other religions like Christians , Judaism or any man made religion.

Islam is an attitude of mind and a way of life towards GOD our creator. It is GOD s only "religion" subscribed through all His prophets and messengers throughout the humans existence.

Mr Jay is right to criticise Traditional Islam that follows men s books -Hadiths- and contradicts /misinterprets Qoran. They have put themselves in a dire situation with their false interpretations and nonsense rules full of contradictions, hearsay and fables. They use Qoran for recitations and ceremonies and ignore or are ignorant of its true message.

Mr jay himself isolate verses out of context and claims he has Scientific evidence of a made up history and origin of Qoran.

Is he refuting Qoran and true Islam? He only thinks he is. he has no intention of studying Qoran sincerely, with honesty and solid knowledge. His agenda is to oppose and refute Traditional Islam.

Why are you putting true Islam and traditional Islam in the same religion brother centi50?

As far as I am concerned Jay Smith , his supporters along with traditional Islam and its supporters are both debating false religions. false history and false narratives. Nothing to do with GOD s true religion.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

Slama Gl

No brother I am not pushing Traditional Islam. But I would like to see the argument they put forward is refuted.

I don't believe in traditional Islam at all. There are very great minds in this forum who can refute these people in their channels. That's what I would love to happening

God bless you

centi50

"Information Only"

Below are the copy paste of my messages to both of them

The true Mecca/Becca is in Petra

To Mr. Jay Smith/Al Fadi

I have seen a lot of Dan Gibson and your videos on the issue of the Masjidil Haram/Qibla during and after Muhammad's time
I believe you are very right that Makkah al-Mukarramah in Saudi Arabia is not the original place of Mecca/Becca where Muhammad was born
It is Petra in Jordan and the one in Makkah al-Mukarramah is a fake and unauthorised by God

I just watched your video "#28 FINALLY, A Rock Inscription Proves Mecca was "BUILT" late!" and this information is a great discovery!
Thanks for the video!

Note
If you don't mind, please go to this link https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611307.0

You will find that some Quranists (GOD alone, Quran alone) believed the authorised original Masjidil Haram/Qibla is situated in Petra, Jordan
AND the shift to unauthorised sites is prophesied in the Quran via verses 9107-110
Please see #Reply 15-18 on the link!

9107 And some have taken a temple/masjid to do harm and cause rejection, and to divide between the believers, and as an outpost for those who fought God and His messenger before. They will swear that they only wanted to do good, and God bears witness that they are liars.
9108 Do not stand in it ever. A temple/masjid that is founded on righteousness from the first day is more worthy that you stand in it; in it are men who love to purify themselves. And God loves the purified.
9109 Is he who founds his building on obtaining righteousness from God and His acceptance better, or he who founds his building on the edge of a cliff which is about to crumble, so that it crumbled with him into the fires of Hell? And God does not guide the wicked people.
9110 The buildings that they built continue to cause doubt in their hearts until their hearts are severed. And God is Knowledgeable and wise.

The mathematical analysis of verses 9107-110 proves that your findings on this "shifting" issue of Masjidil Haram/Qibla are correct!
Anyway, this message is just for information only!

Thank you.

Glory be to God!

To be continued ...

Salam bro shukri,

You might want to see this channel,

https//youtu.be/WmsjGAAw4Uw

https//youtu.be/fTGxUHRfq9I

Or

https//youtube.com/@abu_ali_hail?si=I7pLV17N5AHxhhJ1

Or read the book.

Egypt knew neither Pharaoh nor Moses

https//www.amazon.com/Egypt-knew-Pharaohs-nor-Israelites-ebook/dp/B00U8VK8JE

hawk99

Peace centi50,

Could we address their points of contention one at a time, rather than having to sit
thru their entire discussion. pr

God bless you

peace

shukri

Salam bro shukri,

You might want to see this channel,
https//youtu.be/WmsjGAAw4Uw

https//youtu.be/fTGxUHRfq9I

Or

https//youtube.com/@abu_ali_hail?si=I7pLV17N5AHxhhJ1

Or read the book.

Egypt knew neither Pharaoh nor Moses

https//www.amazon.com/Egypt-knew-Pharaohs-nor-Israelites-ebook/dp/B00U8VK8JE

The information given in those channels/book is quite new for me!
Thanks a lot brother!

Salam.

Bajram_Hoxhaj

The question arises from this discovery
Do we think the phenomenon of 19 denominators in Bismillah (the first verse of surah Al-Fatehah)

Salaam shukri,

I've already demonstrated that this method works for any text—whether it's ماري كان لديها حمل صغير ("Mary had a little lamb," for instance)—or any other verses, including 9128-129, which contain 19 words and 114 letters (19 x 6). This yields a 1/19 probability. The approach they used involved selecting 9 or more variables, shifting columns, reporting only multiples, and omitting 18 out of 19 failed trials. For example, they might manipulate values like 26040 بِسْمِ by combining the first and last digits (2 + 40 = 42) or calculating 102 + 3 = 105, and so on.

https//www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html
Using permutations without repetition (where n=9, r=2; n=9, r=3), the sums are 9 + 72 + 504, resulting in 585. Doubling this total for combinations in the x1, x2, x3, and x4 formats yields 1,170 numbers. Dividing these numbers by 7 yields over 160 multiples; by 11, over 100 multiples; by 19, approximately 61 multiples; and by 29, around 40 multiples, and so on.

"Another" example
وَأَنَّ عَلَيْهِ النَّشْأَةَ الْأُخْرَىٰ
19 letters
1 19 3466 = 19 x 19 x 174
123 + 4567 + 8910111213 + 141516171819 = 150426287722 = 19 x 7917173038
6150 7030105 130503001400 130160020010 = 19 x 32372121107963422632315857978957900

1 6150 57 3 3 57 60 56 123 123
2 7030105 115 4 7 172 119 75 1234 4567
3 130503001400 387 6 13 559 393 6 123456 8910111213
4 130160020010 842 6 19 1401 848 11 123456 141516171819

Likewise, all these are multiples

1 3 2 4 3 6 4 6
1 3 2 7 3 13 4 19
1 56 3 2 75 4 3 401 6 4 11 6
1 3 3 57 2 7 4 172 3 13 75 559 4 19 75 1401
1 3 3 57 2 4 7 172 3 75 13 559 4 75 19 1401
1 56 3 57 2 75 4 115 3 6 75 387 4 11 75 842
1 57 3 3 2 172 7 4 3 559 13 75 4 1401 19 6
1 57 56 3 2 172 75 4 3 559 6 75 4 1401 11 6
1 3 56 57 2 7 75 172 3 13 6 559 4 19 11 1401
1 57 56 60 2 172 75 119 3 559 6 393 4 1401 11 848
1 60 123 3 2 119 1234 4 3 393 123456 75 4 848 123456 6
1 60 3 123 2 119 7 1234 3 393 13 123456 4 848 19 123456
1 3 57 123 2 7 172 1234 3 13 559 123456 4 19 1401 123456
1 123 56 57 2 1234 75 172 3 123456 6 559 4 123456 11 1401
1 3 123 60 2 4 4567 119 3 75 8910111213 393 4 75 141516171819 848
1 3 56 6150 2 7 75 703060 3 13 6 130503001400 4 19 11 130160020010
1 60 56 123 2 119 75 4567 3 393 6 8910111213 4 848 11 141516171819
1 123 60 57 2 4567 119 115 3 8910111213 393 387 4 141516171819 848 842
1 60 6150 3 2 119 703060 7 3 393 130503001400 13 4 848 130160020010 19
1 57 3 6150 2 172 4 703060 3 559 75 130503001400 4 1401 75 130160020010
1 6150 123 2 7030105 1234 3 130503001400 123456 4 130160020010 123456
1 6150 57 56 2 703060 172 75 3 130503001400 559 6 4 130160020010 1401 41
1 123 57 123 2 1234 172 4567 3 123456 559 8910111213 4 123456 1401 141516171819
1 6150 123 2 703060 4567 3 130503001400 8910111213 4 130160020010 141516171819
1 57 6150 123 2 172 703060 1234 3 559 130503001400 123456 4 1401 130160020010 123456
1 6150 123 57 2 703060 1234 172 3 130503001400 123456 559 4 130160020010 123456 1401
1 60 6150 123 2 119 703060 4567 3 393 130503001400 8910111213 4 848 130160020010 141516171819
1 6150 123 123 2 703060 1234 4567 3 130503001400 123456 8910111213 4 130160020010 123456 141516171819

3 57 1 4 115 2 75 387 3 75 842 4
3 3 56 1 7 4 75 2 13 75 6 3 19 75 41 4
57 60 1 115 119 2 387 393 3 842 848 4
57 3 3 1 115 7 4 2 387 13 75 3 842 19 6 4
57 3 3 1 115 4 7 2 387 75 13 3 842 75 19 4
56 60 3 1 75 119 7 2 6 393 13 3 11 848 19 4
60 56 3 1 119 75 7 2 393 6 13 3 848 11 19 4
123 3 1 1234 4 2 123456 75 3 123456 75 4
123 1 4567 2 8910111213 3 141516171819 4
3 60 57 1 4 119 172 2 75 393 559 3 75 848 1401 4
123 3 1 4567 4 2 8910111213 75 3 141516171819 75 4
123 60 3 1 1234 119 7 2 123456 393 13 3 123456 848 19 4
3 123 60 1 4 1234 119 2 75 123456 393 3 75 123456 848 4
123 60 57 1 1234 119 115 2 123456 393 387 3 123456 848 842 4
3 123 3 1 4 4567 7 2 75 8910111213 13 3 75 141516171819 19 4
3 56 123 1 7 75 4567 2 13 6 8910111213 3 19 11 141516171819 4
123 3 57 1 4567 7 172 2 8910111213 13 559 3 141516171819 19 1401 4
123 56 57 1 4567 75 115 2 8910111213 6 387 3 141516171819 11 842 4
57 3 6150 1 115 7 703060 2 387 13 130503001400 3 842 19 130160020010 4
6150 57 3 1 703060 172 4 2 130503001400 559 75 3 130160020010 1401 6 4
3 6150 57 1 7 703060 172 2 13 130503001400 559 3 19 130160020010 1401 4
60 57 123 1 119 172 4567 2 393 559 8910111213 3 848 1401 141516171819 4
6150 3 57 1 703060 4 172 2 130503001400 75 559 3 130160020010 75 1401 4
6150 57 3 1 703060 172 7 2 130503001400 559 13 3 130160020010 1401 19 4
123 3 123 1 1234 4 4567 2 123456 75 8910111213 3 123456 75 141516171819 4
57 57 6150 1 115 172 703060 2 387 559 130503001400 3 842 1401 130160020010 4
6150 123 3 1 703060 1234 4 2 130503001400 123456 75 3 130160020010 123456 6 4
123 123 57 1 4567 1234 172 2 8910111213 123456 559 3 141516171819 123456 1401 4
123 6150 57 1 4567 703060 172 2 8910111213 130503001400 559 3 141516171819 130160020010 1401 4

It's easy to verify simply copy and paste each item or the entire set into a calculator and use the X/Y MOD button.

https//www.calculator.net/big-number-calculator.html

The proof
1094 If you (Muhammad) have any doubt regarding what is revealed to you from your Lord, then ask those who read the previous scripture. Indeed, the truth has come to you from your Lord. Do not be with the doubters.
7430 Over it is nineteen.

1094 --> 10 + 94 = 104
7430 --> 74 + 30 = 104

AND
1094 --> 1+0 + 9+4 = 14
7430 --> 7+4 + 3+0 = 14

(Indication The verse 1094 is related to verse 7430)

No, not really since
1094 = 104 1 0 9 4 = 14
1193 = 104 1 1 9 3 = 14
1292 = 104 1 2 9 2 = 14
2084 = 104 2 0 8 4 = 14
2183 = 104 2 1 8 3 = 14
2381 = 104 2 3 8 1 = 14
3371 = 104 3 3 7 1 = 14
4064 = 104 4 0 6 4 = 14
4361 = 104 4 3 6 1 = 14
5153 = 104 5 1 5 3 = 14
5351 = 104 5 3 5 1 = 14
5450 = 104 5 4 5 0 = 14
7034 = 104 7 0 3 4 = 14
7430 = 104 7 4 3 0 = 14
8024 = 104 8 0 2 4 = 14
8123 = 104 8 1 2 3 = 14
8321 = 104 8 3 2 1 = 14
8420 = 104 8 4 2 0 = 14
9014 = 104 9 0 1 4 = 14
9113 = 104 9 1 1 3 = 14
9212 = 104 9 2 1 2 = 14
9311 = 104 9 3 1 1 = 14

Perhaps something like this

ق total = 7034 The Prime Factorization is 2 x 3517
likewise, 703423517 is a prime number.

ق start = 2288 The Prime Factorization is 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 11 x 13
likewise, 228822221113 is a prime number.

ق ending = 737 The Prime Factorization is 11 x 67
likewise, 7371167 is a prime number.

shukri

I've already demonstrated that this method works for any text—whether it's ماري كان لديها حمل صغير ("Mary had a little lamb," for instance)—or any other verses, including 9128-129, which contain 19 words and 114 letters (19 x 6). This yields a 1/19 probability. The approach they used involved selecting 9 or more variables, shifting columns, reporting only multiples, and omitting 18 out of 19 failed trials. For example, they might manipulate values like 26040 بِسْمِ by combining the first and last digits (2 + 40 = 42) or calculating 102 + 3 = 105, and so on.
.
.

No need to bring up this matter again
Enough is enough!

Once again, please consult your maths professor and show him the "Masjid Tucson's findings"
AND then you will know whether the "Masjid Tucson's codes" are coincidentally happened or divinely designed!

Also, if you think you are very right
Please send your rebuttals (in your Reply #26) to Mr. Jay Smith and Mr. Al Fadi
Stated that my message to them titled "Al Quran is the word of God" is null and void
And ask them to abandon my previous message
That's the best thing you should do, I suppose!

No, not really since
1094 = 104 1 0 9 4 = 14
1193 = 104 1 1 9 3 = 14
1292 = 104 1 2 9 2 = 14
2084 = 104 2 0 8 4 = 14
.
.

To understand why only verse 7430 is fit for verse 1094, we should look the context of verse 1094

1094 If you have any doubt regarding what is revealed to you from your Lord, then ask those who read the previous scripture. Indeed, the truth has come to you from your Lord. Do not be with the doubters.
1095 Nor shall you join those who rejected God's signs, lest you be with the losers.
1096 Surely, those condemned by a decree from your Lord cannot believe.
1097 No matter what kind of sign you show them, (they cannot believe), until they see the painful retribution.

Here we can see the phrase "what is revealed to you from your Lord" in verse 1094 is related to the revelation of "sign/miracle"
AND the sign or the miracle-19 in verse 7430 is fulfill the context of verse 1094
Whereas other verses on your list do not speak about "sign/miracle" and should be classified as "not applicable"!

Note
4610 Say, "What if it is from God and you disbelieved in it? A witness from the Children of Israel has borne witness to a similar phenomenon,* and he has believed, while you have turned arrogant. Surely, God does not guide the wicked people."
*This witness is Rabbi Judah the Pious (11th Century A.D.), who discovered the same 19-based phenomenon
https//whoisourcreator.blogspot.com/2008/09/rabbi-judah-pious-witnesses.html

Thanks.

Bajram_Hoxhaj

No need to bring up this matter again
Enough is enough!

Once again, please consult your maths professor and show him the "Masjid Tucson's findings"
AND then you will know whether the "Masjid Tucson's codes" are coincidentally happened or divinely designed!

Also, if you think you are very right
Please send your rebuttals (in your Reply #26) to Mr. Jay Smith and Mr. Al Fadi
Stated that my message to them titled "Al Quran is the word of God" is null and void
And ask them to abandon my previous message
That's the best thing you should do, I suppose!

Why bother replying to those who, like many on this site, can't comprehend even simple concepts? No need for math professors; this is simple stuff that even kids can do, and I've already shown you the template. This method works for any written material—phrases, text, verses—and it doesn’t matter if words are misspelled, letters are added or deleted, or even written backward.

Again, what they're doing, without realizing it, is using nine parameters and choosing up to three to generate 1,170 numbers. This yields ~61 multiples, or 1/19, and then they print selective results to deceive while hiding the 18/19 that are not multiples.

Note
4610 Say, "What if it is from God and you disbelieved in it? A witness from the Children of Israel has borne witness to a similar phenomenon,* and he has believed, while you have turned arrogant. Surely, God does not guide the wicked people."
*This witness is Rabbi Judah the Pious (11th Century A.D.), who discovered the same 19-based phenomenon

Again, most of you can't read In Arabic, "مثله" means "similar to it"
The Arabic word "وشهد" (wa-shahida) is actually in the past tense.
see context 468-10 "Wa Shahida Shāhidun Min"
see context 1226 "Wa Shahida Shāhidun Min"

شَهِدَ (shahida) – He witnessed (past tense).

يَشْهَدُ (yashhadu) – He witnesses or testifies (present tense).

سَيَشْهَدُ (sayashhadu) – He will witness (future tense).
That someone shall witness something in the future.

shukri

To bro Bajram,

Just for my curiosity!
Here i put forward the same question I asked bro JinnJinn on Reply #14
Hope you don't mind answering it!

There are five objectives of number 19 in verse 7431
May I know which one do you belong to?

7430 Over it is nineteen.
7431 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (nineteen)
(a) to disturb the disbelievers,
(b) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture),
(c) to strengthen the faith of the faithful,
(d) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and
(e) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did God mean by this allegory?" God thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.

Thanks in advance.

Bajram_Hoxhaj

There are five objectives of number 19 in verse 7431
May I know which one do you belong to?

7430 Over it is nineteen.
7431 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (nineteen)
(a) to disturb the disbelievers,

Salaam shukri,

The translation you are using is horrid and misleading.
Why did they use the incorrect translation "is"? It should be "are."
In 7430, "over it (feminine) are a group of nineteen (masculine)," which you confirmed is the correct meaning of "their number" in 7431.
Do you acknowledge that any written text—whether a verse, "Mary had a little lamb," etc.—using 9 parameters up to three levels deep, has 1,170 possible combinations and yields 1/19 or ~61 multiples, as previously explained?
Do you acknowledge that the Arabic word in 4610, "وشهد" (wa-shahida), is in the past tense?
Do you acknowledge that in 7430-31, fitnah (فتنة), meaning "test" or "trial" in this context, was applicable at the time of revelation? Who were the unbelievers then, and what were they doubting or questioning?

shukri

Bro Bajram,

Please, give a straightforward answer to my question
Whether (a), (b), (c), (d) or (e) or any combination of them!

For example
If you ask me the same question
I will say that i'm belong to (c) and (d)
AND full stop!

Note
If you choose not to answer my question, it's okay brother!

Salam.

Bajram_Hoxhaj

Bro Bajram,

Please, give a straightforward answer to my question
Whether (a), (b), (c), (d) or (e) or any combination of them!

For example
If you ask me the same question
I will say that i'm belong to (c) and (d)
AND full stop!

Note
If you choose not to answer my question, it's okay brother!

Salam.

Salaam shukri,

There’s no "abc 123." I appreciate the believers from the time of revelation or the time of Mehmed Fetihler Sultani (a slightly embellished TV series I'm watching, set during the time when my great-grandfathers were imams). They and I believe there are nineteen controllers, entities, or forces over the abyss or hellfire. That’s it.

Now, I pose a question to you, which others have also avoided as you avoid answering my previous questions, if you had lived during the time of revelation or the Ottoman period 1,000 years later, would you have been a believer then—or even now? Or would you require a code of sorts that could align with everything ever written, as I’ve shown you?

JinnJinn

Bro Bajram,

Please, give a straightforward answer to my question
Whether (a), (b), (c), (d) or (e) or any combination of them!

For example
If you ask me the same question
I will say that i'm belong to (c) and (d)
AND full stop!

Note
If you choose not to answer my question, it's okay brother!

Salam.

Hey Shukri,

This nipple sucker doesn't know to differentiate between singular and plural. 'Over it is 19' is absolutely right.

but he is right on the matter you guys discussing. for that, I salute him.

You belong to group C or D, and the rest of the believers belong to group A or B just because they don't believe your false messenger, who introduced fancy structures to elevate himself to a Messenger and follow him.

Ask yourself, is this the only verse that convinces you and increases your faith, and does the rest of the Quran not teach you anything to get convinced and increase your faith?
Come on man! where are you lost?

Let me modify my thread.

You said a week or so ago that you were agnostic and a disbeliever and this number magic turned you to believe in Al Quran and God. Lemme put that this way.

according to verse 74'31 disbelievers will go far away from this temptation of the verse but you turned toward faith as you claim. Allah's verse states disbelievers would sink into deep disbelief hearing this verse and how come you turned into a believer with 19? It points out that Allah is wrong. It should only increase the faith of believers of any ethnicity it states.

How was it possible for a disbeliever to get faith thru this verse while it states otherwise?

You didn't get the verse right, but you embraced the shit of your fancy messenger.

Bajram_Hoxhaj

Hey Shukri,

This nipple sucker doesn't know to differentiate between singular and plural. 'Over it is 19' is absolutely right.

nineteen morons (masculine) تِسْعةَ عَشرَ بليداً
you don't say "is" nineteen morons you moron!
اللعنة عليك مصاصة الديك

اللعنة (al-la‘nah) — "Curse"
عليك (‘alayk) — "upon you"
مصاصة (miṣṣāṣah) — "sucker"
الديك (al-dīk) — "the rooster" or, in slang, it can mean "d***"

In other words, using 19 characters fk off you c***sucker!

shukri

Salaam shukri,

There’s no "abc 123." I appreciate the believers from the time of revelation or the time of Mehmed Fetihler Sultani (a slightly embellished TV series I'm watching, set during the time when my great-grandfathers were imams). They and I believe there are nineteen controllers, entities, or forces over the abyss or hellfire. That’s it.

Now, I pose a question to you, which others have also avoided as you avoid answering my previous questions, if you had lived during the time of revelation or the Ottoman period 1,000 years later, would you have been a believer then—or even now? Or would you require a code of sorts that could align with everything ever written, as I’ve shown you?

My simple answer
2141 That was a community from the past. They are responsible for what they earned, and you are responsible for what you earned. You are not answerable for anything they did.

AND for you, the wisdom of verses 7430-37 is still hidden as a mystery, i suppose!
But for me, the wisdom of "the nineteen" is the greatest sign/proof that the God exists and the Quran is the word of God

Thank you God for your guidance and mercy on me
AND chosen me to be blessed with the wisdom of miracles-19
All praise be to God!

Salam!

Ends.

shukri

According to verse 74'31 disbelievers will go far away from this temptation of the verse but you turned toward faith as you claim. Allah's verse states disbelievers would sink into deep disbelief hearing this verse and how come you turned into a believer with 19? It points out that Allah is wrong. It should only increase the faith of believers of any ethnicity it states.

You're wrong!
During my agnostic/atheist I was in concordance with objective (a) of verse 7431
viz. to disturb/test the disbelievers (agnostic/atheist)

NOT objective (e)
viz. to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did God mean by this allegory?"

Thanks.