Prayer Times According to the Quran
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Also ,blessing someone is just helping and supporting them.
GOD and His Angels were helping and supporting the prophet during his life with the task of delivering the message, O you who believe "Sallu Alaihi- means help and support him- as well.
It does not mean what the Traditional Muslims are doing now when every time his name is mentioned they say "salla allah Alaihi wa Salam" . This is shirk and commemoration of the human. It does not help him or harm him and does not make any sense.
Besides, the Nabi- is not alive and the only way to help is to spread GOD s message- the living messenger since the time of the prophet- as well.
Similarly ,GOD said "Do not raise your voices above his/ argue/disrespect him..." , How can we possibly do that now?
Therefore the Nabi is gone and believers are now in another era still with the message that will be ongoing. The human messenger has been and gone.
Where is the common sense gone or are we really helping the prophet? By idolising him!!!
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
To be entirely transparent, the key to interpreting the number of daily prayers is given by verses and .
---The form of the word "l-ʿishāi" in refers to the night.
---The form of the word "dulūk" in is also used to designate "the hour when the sun, having passed its highest point in the sky, moves towards setting".
Thus, in this scenario, verse would be abrogated by verses , changing from 3 prayer times to 4 or 5 depending on whether the word "ghasaqi" in verse is understood as "the night became dark" (more likely) or as "intensely dark".
I know this is an endless debate in this forum, and I'm not making this post to argue, as everyone can put forward their arguments. But essentially, I wanted to point out these 2-3 possible interpretations.
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I appreciate the effort put into breaking down the prayer timings based on different verses, but I want to step back and ask a more fundamental question.....should we be looking at isolated verses to determine these matters, or do we need to consider their context? Because if we take verses out of context, then everyone will just pick whichever verses fit their preferred view.
Now, looking at 1778-79, it comes right after a strong discussion about the Prophet facing opposition and being urged to stay firm. The earlier verses (1773-77) make it clear that he was under pressure to compromise. Then, 1778 tells him to follow a set program from morning till night and stay vigilant, ensuring he is prepared for challenges ahead. It seems to be more about structuring the day for strategic action rather than prescribing ritual prayers. The phrase "before the day dawns, set out your schedule in the light of the Quran" makes a lot of sense in this context.
Now, if we jump from 1778 to 2458, we are skipping an entire stretch of revelation. Chapter 24 is discussing social customs, privacy, and conduct inside homes, so even if it mentions "prayer," it is doing so in a different setting. Are we sure these two chapters are connected? Because if they are miles apart in subject matter, then should they be used to determine the structure of daily prayers?
Then there’s the claim that 11114 is "abrogated" by 1778-79. But does the Quran itself ever say that God changes His own words? On the contrary, it says in 6115 and 1064 that God’s words do not change. So if we start assuming one verse cancels out another, aren’t we implying that God revised His own guidance like a human drafts and edits?
And this brings me to the core question....was the Quran revealed without any context, like a book lying on a rock waiting to be discovered? Or was it direct revelation over many years, addressing real situations faced by the Prophet and his community? If it was a progressive revelation, then it naturally has historical and social context.
If we ignore the context, then we open the door to endless cherry-picking, and everyone will come up with their own version of "prayer times," "laws," or even "beliefs." But if we respect the context, then we have to ask...was 1778 even about ritual prayer, or was it a call to remain steadfast and structured in response to the Prophet’s opponents?
That is the real question we should be asking!!! in my humble opinion.
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I know this is an endless debate in this forum...
It can appear like that but to my knowledge most long term forum members think it is twice daily or a minimum of twice daily, so there is not much variance among them.
Also there is this $$$ challenge
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html
No-one has come up with any errors so far. It's only been 5 years... maybe they need more time. -
Theres a timing, but its only for our comfort, i dont think its so important, saying morning and evening and day and night is to highlight its importance. Only muslims worry about the inner details, every religion has prayers and theres no such strict adherences or not much worried about the uniformity all through out the world. Even Quran didnt give that.
17/78
Establish prayer at the decline of the sun until the darkness of the night1 and the Qur’ān of dawn.2 Indeed, the recitation of dawn is ever witnessed.It highlights the important of prayer and reading, can be translated as,
Spend time to establish your adoration/prayer after your works are completed, until you sleep, and do the recitation(reading) at early morning time, the recitation at early morning is very helpful.
17/79
And from the night, pray with it as additional for you; it is expected that your Lord will resurrect you to a praised station.If you have time, you can pray extra in the night without sleeping, that will help you improve & raise your level before God.
Also these prayer calls on those days will be like clocks of the present days, announcing specific times so people could know and plan their works and rest accordingly.
So 24/48 is not about prayer timing but about privacy and the times are taken as pointers.
Again 11/114
And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and at the approach of the night. Indeed, good deeds do away with misdeeds. That is a reminder for those who remember.Here its saying, "establish your adoration/prayers at morning and evening(before and after your works/day), and before sleeping, indeed good deeds do away with misdeeds, that is a reminder for those who remember."
17/80
And say, "My Lord, cause me to enter a sound entrance1 and to exit a sound exit2 and grant me from Yourself a supporting authority."This again looks incorrect, its not referring any event, it could refer to the incoming day,
My lord make my day/work start and end better and you be always beside me an authority helping. -
Peace All.
Do we all agree on a fixed definition of "error"?
Can error mean a slightest change,or how big can one go in the definition?Qoran interpretations have been found to be full of errors -small medium and large, some to the extent of creating new religions- since its beginning and will carry on till its end.
Basically no one is immune from errors. The human definition always includes one who errs. There are no humans who are perfect. So basically
"I am more right, I do not err" is a trait of the human as well.If we accept that we are only responsible for our own faculties and accountable for them , we may realise that
there will always be errors in our work/thoughts/reasoning...etc.This why Qoran talks about redemption for every individual and advises continuous repentance and correction in our life.Who is claiming that they have worked out every meaning to all verses discussing "salat" or "the salat" or other subjects that have a connection to these two?
The best advice in Qoran for us is to say"May GOD grant us more knowledge"
تَعٰلَى اللَّهُ المَلِكُ الحَقُّ وَلا تَعجَل بِالقُرءانِ مِن قَبلِ أَن يُقضىٰ إِلَيكَ وَحيُهُ وَقُل رَبِّ زِدنى عِلمًاEach study and come to their own conclusions and prepare to meet their Lord with whatever they choose and decided to do.But there is nothing wrong about studying and learning together ,like here, with respect and humbleness, at the end
The record will be shown, and you will see the guilty fearful of its contents. They will say, "Woe to us. How come this book leaves nothing, small or large, without counting it?" They will find everything they had done brought forth. Your Lord is never unjust towards anyone.
وَوُضِعَ الكِتٰبُ فَتَرَى المُجرِمينَ مُشفِقينَ مِمّا فيهِ وَيَقولونَ يٰوَيلَتَنا مالِ هٰذَا الكِتٰبِ لا يُغادِرُ صَغيرَةً وَلا كَبيرَةً إِلّا أَحصىٰها وَوَجَدوا ما عَمِلوا حاضِرًا وَلا يَظلِمُ رَبُّكَ أَحَدًاThe best path clear to us ,without a doubt, is to study our Lord message/book and avoid other sources that contradict it-according to our own faculties/conclusion- with GOD s help seeking only His guidance.
We shall force ourself to be with those who are loyal to their Lord day and night, seeking Him alone.
Never turn away from the straight path, Nor seeking the vanities of this world.
Nor shall we obey those who are oblivious to GOD s message; those who pursues their own desires, and whose priorities are confused.What we can proclaim for sure is that "This is the truth from our Lord," then whoever wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve..
Thanks to all of you who are keeping up their study of the book to improve their souls and are sharing with us here and hopefully we can all take "the best from each other" according to what our faculties and knowledge can bare.
May the Lord guide us all.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
Peace Fusion,
I appreciate the effort put into breaking down the prayer timings based on different verses, but I want to step back and ask a more fundamental question.....should we be looking at isolated verses to determine these matters, or do we need to consider their context? Because if we take verses out of context, then everyone will just pick whichever verses fit their preferred view.
Yes you're right Fusion, quranic verses should not be read in isolation, and this is what I am working on to identify the textual units of the text and their correspondences with each other. However, you must use a proven methodology for this, otherwise you risk making mistakes. This is why I use rhetorical analysis, which proves to be a powerful tool for uncovering this structure of the Quranic text, and which has proven its worth.
But here I wanted to list all the verses that deal with ritual Prayer (the formal form of remembrance of God - to be combined, of course, with its non-formal form, which is to remember God as often as possible); in the absence, for now, of having completed the total rhetorical analysis of the text. This still gives an idea of the vocabulary used to designate these "ritualised prayer times". Some are clear whilst others (according to classical dictionaries) may "seem equivocal". In this case, perhaps we should use the advocated method of reading verses that "seem equivocal" in the light of those that are not equivocal .Now, looking at 1778-79, it comes right after a strong discussion about the Prophet facing opposition and being urged to stay firm. The earlier verses (1773-77) make it clear that he was under pressure to compromise. Then, 1778 tells him to follow a set program from morning till night and stay vigilant, ensuring he is prepared for challenges ahead. It seems to be more about structuring the day for strategic action rather than prescribing ritual prayers. The phrase "before the day dawns, set out your schedule in the light of the Quran" makes a lot of sense in this context.
Interesting idea. But the only snag is that, in Arabic, as-Salât essentially means Prayer.
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Peace Wakas,
It can appear like that but to my knowledge most long term forum members think it is twice daily or a minimum of twice daily, so there is not much variance among them.
Also there is this $$$ challenge
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html
No-one has come up with any errors so far. It's only been 5 years... maybe they need more time.It is still necessary that the game is not rigged from the start; and that you are open to the arguments of others.
If these conditions are met, then we must first agree on the following definitions-
The strict duration of day and night The day goes from dawn to sunset (cf. my first post) and night from sunset to dawn.
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The plural in Arabic begins from three. Arabic language shows, besides singular, dual and plural (broken
and regular), something that could be described as the fourth number the plural of small number or plural of paucity (jamu l-qilla), thoroughly studied by Sibawayhi. -
The ritual prayer can be evoked by the word as-Salât or indirectly by the process of synecdoche (Glorify, prostrate, recitation, etc.).
So, if we agree with these 3 elements, then the Quran mentions at least 3 prayers (in Meccan or Medinan context) and not 2 as you indicate in your above comment by the expressions
- (223 ḥāfiẓū/Guard strictly ʿalā/on l-ṣalawāti/the prayers,
- (692) wahum/an they ʿalā/over ṣalātihim/their prayers yuḥāfiẓūna/(are) guarding
- (239) wa-alladhīna/And those who hum/ ʿalā/over ṣalawātihim/their prayers yuḥāfiẓūna/they guard
- (7034) wa-alladhīna/And those who hum/ ʿalā/over ṣalātihim/their prayer yuḥāfiẓūna/keep a guard.
Now, let's look among the earliest revealed verses for those that mention at least three prayer times. We first have the verse
7625 And remember the name of your Lord in the early morning/bukratan and at the end of the day/aseelan.
7626 And from the night/mina al-layli prostrate to Him and glorify Him long.
=> 3 moments beginning and end of day, and from night.Now let's look at the following verses
Glorify by the praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before the setting
and from the night glorify him also and after the prostration.
=> 3 moments beginning and end of day, and from night.Then verse allows us to understand that the "(at the) ends"/aṭrāfa (1) corresponds to the beginning and end of the day. The verse removes also the ambiguity of the plural aṭrāfa used here, as both day and night can only have two edges-sides ! (by using the word tarafiya)
Finally, the verses
Perform the Prayer at the two edges-sides/ṭarafayi of the day, and at the hours of the night near the day/zulafan
=> 3 moments beginning and end of day, and from night.
The term zulfa in Arabic means any hour approaching day or night. Here we have a plural, so it evokes the hours/times of night close to day, i.e. after sunset.The problematic verse remains . If we stick to these 3 prayer times, then the translation is as follows
"Perform the Prayer at the setting of the sun/dulooki until the intensely darkness/ghasaqi of the night.
And the Recitation at dawn, for the Recitation at dawn is witnessed.
At night, keep vigil/tahajjad with it, an additional-supererogatory work/nâfilatan (2) for you."
=> 3 moments beginning and end of day, and from night. + 1 vigil prayerNb
- The form AAashiyyi which appears in , and is ambiguous because it means, according to Lane's Lexicon, " the last, or the latter, part of the day; (Mgh, Msb, K, TA as also ↓ عَشِيَّةٌ (K, TA) this is the meaning commonly known ". In light of other expressions used by the Quran to designate prayer times, we shall choose the following definition the last, or the latter, part of the day.
(1) aṭrāfa (Lane's Lexicon) The extremity, or end, of anything; and a side; a lateral, or an outward, or adjacent, part or portion; a region, district, quarter, or tract; The fingers and has no sing. unless this is used as a prefixed noun, as in the saying أَشَارَتْ بِطَرَفِ إِصْبَعِهَا
(2) nâfilatan (Lane's Lexicon) What accedes to, or exceeds, the original.(T.)A voluntary gift, by way of alms, or as a good work(T)a gift(Ḳ) or a giftعَنْ يَدٍ (M)a deed beyond what is incumbent, or obligatory.(M, Ḳ.) -
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It is a time bound protocol. Number and the appointed timings for its performance during a day
https//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/000.%20Encyclopaedia%20of%20Arabic%20of%20Qur'aan/8.%20Deen%20Constitution%20Islam%20and%20its%20protocols/Protocols%20of%20Islam/Salat%20timings.jpg
https//haqeeqat.pk/SalatTimings.htm
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It can appear like that but to my knowledge most long term forum members think it is twice daily or a minimum of twice daily, so there is not much variance among them.
Also there is this $$$ challenge
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html
No-one has come up with any errors so far. It's only been 5 years... maybe they need more time.Wakas,
I agree on minimum of two times. Me myself I pray 3 times a day, Fajr mid day and ishaa
God bless yiu6
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Peace good logic,
Each study and come to their own conclusions and prepare to meet their Lord with whatever they choose and decided to do.But there is nothing wrong about studying and learning together ,like here, with respect and humbleness, at the end
Wise observation. That is why I mentioned the ambiguity of verse and particularly using the word dulūki.
BUT, on the other hand, at the very least, one must respect the rules of the Arabic classic language, or any other language for that matter. And to cite just one example, when verse says two + (wa) 1 = 3, then it's 3 and not two. One should not be deaf to clear discourse, nor twist the meaning that is fundamentally evident. This is, in fact, what traditional exegetes do by indicating that these times of the night include 2 prayers! Muhammad Asad, who translated very well the meaning of the beginning of this verse, couldn't help but mention the 5 prayers in his commentary !. Incidentally, for verse , it should be noted that the other authenticated recitation variant is zulufan (instead of zulaf in the Hafs version), with an equivalent meaning, but in the singular, which then removes any ambiguity.
I also mentioned in my previous comment the ambiguity of the form ʿashiyi, which can designate several time periods; certainly all related to the decrease in luminosity.
Let's continue our effort of understanding, as you rightly mention in your comment.
This term is used three times in connection with two moments of Prayer, in opposition to the beginning of the day (i.e. dawn)Recite what has been revealed to you from the Writing of your Lord. None can change His words. And you will
find no refuge besides Him. Be patient with those who call upon their Lord in the early morning/ghadati (1) and
aat the latter part of the day/AAashiyyi, seeking His Face.Therefore endure patiently, for Allah's promise is true. Ask forgiveness for your sin and glorify your Lord
by praise at the latter part of the day/AAashiyyi and at dawn/al-ibkari (2).Do not drive away those who call upon their Lord in the early morning/ghadati (1) and at the latter part of the day/AAashiyyi.
And (coincidentally?), another term asali is used in place of the word "ʿashiyi" in 3 other passages, in connection with two moments of Prayer
They said "Tales of the ancients which he has had written down and which are dictated to him
at dawn/bukratan (2) and at the end of the day/aseelan!"When the Qur'an is recited, listen to it attentively and remain silent. Perhaps you will receive mercy.
Remember your Lord within yourself, with humility and in fear, without raising your voice, early in the
mornings/ghuduwwi (1) and at the end of the day/asali, and do not be among the heedless.
Indeed, those who are near your Lord are not too proud to worship Him. They glorify Him and prostrate before
Him.In houses which Allah has permitted to be raised and wherein His Name is remembered. He is glorified therein
early in the morning/ghuduwwi (1) and at the end of the day/asali. By men whom neither trade nor sale distracts from the
remembrance of Allah.In conclusion, one can observe that the words ʿashiyi and asali are used in opposition to time with the same words that designate the beginning of the morning (in red and blue below). These two words ʿashiyi and asali are thus, in this context of Prayer, interchangeable.
(1) root ghayn dāl wāw (غ د و) the first part of the day, the early part of the morning, meal at dawn
(2) root bā kāf rā (ب ك ر) beginning of the day -
It is a time bound protocol. Number and the appointed timings for its performance during a day
https//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/000.%20Encyclopaedia%20of%20Arabic%20of%20Qur'aan/8.%20Deen%20Constitution%20Islam%20and%20its%20protocols/Protocols%20of%20Islam/Salat%20timings.jpg
https//haqeeqat.pk/SalatTimings.htm
Peace Mazhar,
Question 1
you say "dulūki" in means "The verbal noun signifies a state of rubbing and getting away with ease and smoothly. The Sun touches/rubs the horizon and smoothly disappears whereby the night emerges." Then you say "lidulūki l-shamsi" means "the Sunset"
-> a contradiction here? Either it refers to the phase just before sunset or at/after sunset (as your graph shows) but not both.Questions 2.1 and 2.2
You say "ṣalati l-ʿishāi" in means "the time of first part of night after disappearance of twilight-the darkened night"
-> 2.1 why choose this definition and not this one "the time from sunset to the darkness of the night"
-> 2.2 how do young people who have not reached puberty find out when the prayer of dark night is over and ask permission (baʿdi ṣalati l-ʿishāi)? -
Root د ل ك
Ibn Faris stated(مقاييس اللغة)
الدال واللام والكاف أصلٌ واحد يدلُّ على زَوالِ شيءٍ عن شيء، ولا يكون إلاَّ برِفْق.That it leads to the perception of disappearance, termination, coming to an end of a thing with reference to another, and it is but smoothly and softly.
Sun disappears on the horizon. Night sets in.
New Lunar day starts.Root غ س ق
Words from this Root in the Grand Qur'aan
a) Total occurrences 4
b) No of constructions 4 All Noun
Ibn Faris stated
(مقاييس اللغة)
الغين والسين والقاف أصلٌ صحيح يدل على ظُلْمة. فالغَسَق الظلمةThat it leads to the perception of darkness, blackness.
(الصّحّاح في اللغة)
الغَسَقُ أول ظلمة الليلThat it is the early darkness of the night.
Semantic Domain Light Darkness - Temperature
The use of phrase دُلُوكُ الشمس instead of غُرُوبُ الشمس also contains information that the Sun does not set along a vertical line but at an angle. It is because of the Earth's tilt. The path of the Sun is curved, tilted relative to the horizon.
Phases of Night
https//haqeeqat.pk/roots/(1343).htm -
For the one who observes salat five times a day (fajar, noon, asar, maghrib مَغرِبُ and isha)
My question
Why did the "Prophet Muhammad" named maghrib as his 4th salat
As we know the word "maghrib" in the Quran means "west" and it looks very weird to me!2115 To God belongs the east and the west (المَغرِبُ); wherever you go there will be the presence of God. God is Omnipresent, Omniscient.
Thank you.
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The West or the setting sun are the same thing (when viewed from the Middle East)
Yes, it's very true
But I wonder if "maghrib" can be literally translated (word for word) as "sunset"!Note
I do not know Arabic
But when I read the Quran translation by Rashad Khalifa
He used the English word "sunset" for the translation of the Arabic word "الغُروبِ" and not for "المَغرِبُ"5039 Therefore, be patient with their speech, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise and before sunset.
(فَاسبِر عَلىٰ ما يَقولونَ وَسَبِّح بِحَمدِ رَبِّكَ قَبلَ طُلوعِ الشَّمسِ وَقَبلَ الغُروبِ)I also used "google translate" and it gave me the same answer as "غروب"
Thank you
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Hi shukri,
But I wonder if "maghrib" can be literally translated (word for word) as "sunset"!
Between and from my point of view the difference doesn't really matter. It depends of the textual context.
So for i translate as "sunset or setting". It refers to the sun.
and for i prefer "west". It refers more of a direction. "East and West" this phrase is often used poetically or in literary contexts to describe the entire span of the day from sunrise to sunset, or metaphorically to encompass a wide range or expanse.The East and the West This translates directly into geographical directions.
The Rising and the Setting Sun This emphasises the movement of the sun. -
Hi shukri,
Between and from my point of view the difference doesn't really matter. It depends of the textual context.
So for i translate as "sunset or setting". It refers to the sun.
and for i prefer "west". It refers more of a direction. "East and West" this phrase is often used poetically or in literary contexts to describe the entire span of the day from sunrise to sunset, or metaphorically to encompass a wide range or expanse.The East and the West This translates directly into geographical directions.
The Rising and the Setting Sun This emphasises the movement of the sun.Say, if I wish to use "صلاة الغُروبِ" instead of "صلاة المغرب"
Am i right too?One more question, if you don't mind
How about "isha"
Does it refer to "dusk" or "evening" or "night"?Search Labs | AI Overview (the difference between dusk and evening)
While "Dusk" is considered a specific point in time when the sun is just below the horizon, marking the end of twilight, "evening" refers to a broader period of time after sunset, encompassing dusk and extending into the darker hours of night; essentially, dusk is a part of the evening, but not the entire evening itself.The word "Isha" in the Quran
1216 They came back to their father in the evening, weeping ... (RK translation)
(وَجاءو أَباهُم عِشاءً يَبكونَ)2458 O you who believe, permission must be requested by your servants and the children who have not attained puberty (before entering your rooms). This is to be done in three instances - before the Dawn Prayer, at noon when you change your clothes to rest, and after the Night Prayer ... (RK translation)
(يٰأَيُّهَا الَّذينَ ءامَنوا لِيَستَـٔذِنكُمُ الَّذينَ مَلَكَت أَيمٰنُكُم وَالَّذينَ لَم يَبلُغُوا الحُلُمَ مِنكُم ثَلٰثَ مَرّٰتٍ مِن قَبلِ صَلوٰةِ الفَجرِ وَحينَ تَضَعونَ ثِيابَكُم مِنَ الظَّهيرَةِ وَمِن بَعدِ صَلوٰةِ العِشاءِ ثَلٰثُ عَورٰتٍ لَكُم لَيسَ عَلَيكُم وَلا عَلَيهِم جُناحٌ بَعدَهُنَّ طَوّٰفونَ عَلَيكُم بَعضُكُم عَلىٰ بَعضٍ كَذٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمُ الـٔايٰتِ وَاللَّهُ عَليمٌ حَكيمٌ)Thank you.
