Usage of "We" to mean God
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In the Quran, we humans often read the word "We" when it is referring to God. What is meant by the term "we?" Does it refer to God and His angels?
Where can I find more information on this? I've searched this site and can't find the answer. I could have sworn I just read something about this on Free Minds within the past couple of days.
cry
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copied from http//harunyahya.com/unwise03.php
The Misinterpretation of the Term "We," Which God Uses in Reference to Himself
God uses the term "We" to refer to Himself in many parts of the Qur'an. Some examples of these verses can be given
We gave Moses the Book and sent a succession of Messengers after him. We gave Jesus, son of Maryam, the Clear Signs and reinforced him with the Purest Spirit. Why then, whenever a Messenger came to you with something your lower selves did not desire, did you grow arrogant, and deny some of them and murder others?! (Surat al-Baqarah 87)
Who would deliberately renounce the religion of Abraham except someone who reveals himself to be a fool? We chose him in the world and in the hereafter he will be one of the true believers. (Surat al-Baqarah 130)
The unwise assume the term "We," which God uses in reference to Himself in the Qur'an to be a plural form, and suggest that the use of this word contradicts the fact that there is no other deity but God. They believe they have made a very significant discovery. In fact, the explanation of this misinterpretation, resulting from a very superficial and ignorant approach, is quite simple. In Arabic, the pronoun "We" is not only used as a plural form, but is also applied to accentuate greatness, grandeur, majesty, glory, high rank and position in the singular as well. The term "We" used for God is applied in this context.
The mentality with which the term "We" is used in Arabic also applies to the polite use of the plural form of the pronoun "you" to refer to one person in French and some other foreign languages.
The core and most significant message of the Qur'an is that there is no other deity but God, and that He alone must be obeyed. The fact that there is no other deity than God is stressed in various Qur'anic verses, such as
This is the true account there is no other deity besides God. God ? He is the Almighty, the All-Wise.(Surat Al 'Imran 62)
... There is no deity except God, the One, the All-Conquering. (Surah Sad 65)
Know then that there is no deity except God and ask forgiveness for your wrongdoing, and for the men and women who believe. God knows both your activity and your repose. (Surah Muhammad 19)
It becomes apparent that the term "We" used in reference to God Himself in various parts of the Qur'an is not applied in the plural form but is intended to portray magnificence, respect and holiness.
In fact, one does not necessarily have to be aware of this special use of the term in Arabic to grasp its purpose. Anyone with the least power of reasoning can appreciate the delicacy behind the term. The conditions of those who perceive this as a contradiction or defiance present a vivid picture of the level of their intelligence and understanding and the aptitude they display.
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PEace be upon you all,
We are the Gods and to Him we are returning.
The usage of the word "we" is very simple, it is helping us to understand the TRUE ONENESS of all things. There is not an object you can point to that is not made of protons, electrons, and nuetrons. When we look deeper, everything is all the same ENERGY manifested in different arrangements. The "we" is merely a statement to help us REMEMBER that we are not seperate beings, that is the illusion of this world that some call "maya". The truth is that we are all parts of THE WHOLE, just as our individual cells of our body work as one body. The WE is US!
We are the parts of the WHOLE(God). The consciousness that we are is one and the same consciousness. We are all connected at that high level yet have the ILLUSION of seperation at the level of this world. We must learn to keep our balance between the two worlds so we see the usage of "I" , "he", and "we".
Side note The usage of the term "angels" will continue to confuse those who use it, the study must be taken on to understand that "malaika" are the controlling forces of life coming from the root "m-l-k". We have to put this all together to get the big picture.
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Peace be upon you
I think the simplest explanation is that of the Arabic language as presented by Saladin. I speak a language from the asian sub continent and the principles of repect are the same.
Your idea idolfree is intriguing, please show me how you come to understand this.
d
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I think the simplest explanation is that of the Arabic language as presented by Saladin. I speak a language from the asian sub continent and the principles of repect are the same.
peace .
i speak urdu . in urdu we also use the plural form to show respect . the singular form of "you" is "tum" and the plural form is "aap" . but when we address some elder or want to show respect we use the word "aap"(i.e plural) for him/her . and if someone wants o show his high rank he can use the word "hum"(we) instead of "mai"( I ) for himself . -
Peace,
FM
2156. The ones who, when afflicted with adversity, they Say ?We are to the God and to Him we will return.?Shabir
2156 When a calamity befalls them, they do not waver. Rather, they say, "We are for Allah, dedicated to His Cause and every step of ours will advance in the Direction shown by Him." (9129).1055 Oh, verily, To Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. His Promise is unwaveringly True but most of them never learn.
1065 Let not their utterances sadden you (O Prophet!) To Allah wholly belong all Authority, Might and Honor. He is the Hearer, the Knower. (No power, glory or honor is attainable contrary to His Laws).
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Yea I'll repeat what Saladin is saying. In certain langauges, a plural form of the first person is used to imply respect or authority.
In urdu the word "Hum" means 'we', so to say "We (the people) went to the beach", you would use the word 'Hum'. But if you are an adult speaking to an adult, you can also use 'Hum' to say "I went to the beach", but instead of saying 'I' (or 'mein' in urdu), the adult would say 'Hum.' Its the same thing in arabic.
My mom always refers herself to 'hum' when talking to her friends. Its just how the langauge is spoken. So when literally translated, she would be saying "We said", but shes actually saying "I said" in a formal way.
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Peace be upon you Darcus,
Your idea idolfree is intriguing, please show me how you come to understand this.
I can give you the simple answer which is as follows;
Is the God omnipresent (everywhere)? If your answer is Yes, then tell me where does the God end and "you" start. D
We are the parts of the WHOLE, this is how we SERVE the God (worship is a corruption of the proper understanding to keep us from realizing this truth)
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In Arabic, the pronoun "We" is not only used as a plural form, but is also applied to accentuate greatness, grandeur, majesty, glory, high rank and position in the singular as well. The term "We" used for God is applied in this context.
peace to all,
saladin, thanks for the explaination since this has confused me for some time..........i've read other explanations that suggested "We" is used by royalty or in legal documents i.e. "WE the people" and that Allah is to be looked at in that way.........but i feel what you wrote is clearer and easier to grasp. It's nice when things get a little clearer
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Peace,
I would just like to add that "we" is actually used in everyday language by people when addressing others as well...therefore it is not always to be understood in the plural tense as others have explained. For example, if I wanted to say "I wanted to help you," in Arabic some ppl would say it as "we wanted to help you" as a an assertion of importance I guess. But yes the "We" in Quran is what we call the royal "We"
Initially I thought it referred to God and the angels, as many ppl think. However this verse disproves that
When we said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam," they fell prostrate, except Satan; he refused, was too arrogant, and a disbeliever.
Obviously, the angels cannot participate in the "We" here since it is addressing them in particular.
Peace,
Omar
PS. I really like Idol Free's interpretation, which in a way confirms the views of Eastern relgions, and can explain easily how nothing happens without God's will. So far, I have found no verses to condradict this view which some may feel is controvertial. God knows best.
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Peace all
There are few examples in the Quran, which according to my understanding contradict the view of the Royal-We and the we due to magnificence & respect ... etc
Take as an example
4111 Thus, He then made them into seven universes in two days, and He inspired to every universe its affair. And We adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and for protection. Such is the design of the Noble, the Knowledgeable.Why the switch from singular to plural within the same verse? This conflicts with this view imho. There are also other verses in the Quran, where the same happens; i.e. switch from He->We...
There are also no examples in the Quran showing someone talking to God using You (plural) or about got using they...Only the "We" is used!!259 But the wicked altered what was said to them to a different saying, thus We sent down upon the wicked an affliction from the heaven for what they had transgressed.
Who is talking here? Clearly the "Angels" the same as Abraham's & Lot's guests who were using the same expression using "We" in Sura 29..
2933-34 Thus when Our messengers came to Lot, they were mistreated, and he was embarrassed towards them. And they said "Do not fear, and do not be saddened. We will save you and your family, except for your wife; she is of those doomed." "We will send down upon the people of this town an affliction from the sky, as a consequence of their wickedness."
(a side note the quran uses in 259 and in 2934 the word "samaa'" while free-minds translation uses one time heaven and other time sky)
Best regards,
sabo -
The "We" is the divine council that sits below God.
These are not just Angles, they are very high ranking Angels. God not only sits above this council, he is also a member of the council. So when it says "We" it means the divine council and God.
There is a surah called "The Council", Surah Ash Shura but many wrongly think this refers to an earthy council, but in fact is in reference to the "Divine Council" that sits below God and answers directly to God.
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Peace be upon you,
The "royal we" is something that is made up because it is hard for us to accept that we are PART OF the WHOLE(God). The God is WITHIN US, the WE is US.
More directly, there realli is no "Us" only the God. Everything else is an illusion.
The God uses Man as a tool for experience, in the beginning there is nothing, so the God creates the creation and manifests through mankind to expreience the creation, this is what is meant by MAN AND JINN were created to SERVE the God.
DO not be scared to be NEAR the God, near enough to relaize the WE means just what it says WE D
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The usage of the word "we" is very simple, it is helping us to understand the TRUE ONENESS of all things...
...The "we" is merely a statement to help us REMEMBER that we are not seperate beings, that is the illusion of this world that some call "maya". The truth is that we are all parts of THE WHOLE, just as our individual cells of our body work as one body. The WE is US! ...
...We are the parts of the WHOLE(God)...
sounds like the christians claim that jesus is God are the same . that they r not seperate .
anyway , nothing in the koran supports this understanding . nothing that i have read at least .
peace .
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Salam Fahad,
Actually, the Quran says everything in this life is an illusion, and that the ego must be killed to REACH God. If God is omnipresent, ie, present everywhere then there can be nothing real except God...everything is an illusion and hence the only thing that exists is God. This is the only way you can say that God exists everywhere as the Quran states.
This is why people in all religions medidate and it actually works...if you train yourself to stay extremely still and silent, while focusing intensely on God for prolonged periods of time you will be able to dissociate yourself from your body and the material world, and transcend it to feel God's presence.
Also, did you forget the verse in the Quran which says God is closer to us than our jugular vein???
For some reason I have been nearing this understanding of Idol Free...
The failure of human beings is to think that they are independent of God. We are not since this the body is a temporary garment and illusion...I think this is why "nothing happens without God's will" is a statement that makes perfect sense. Since God is the only thing that exists.
This is different from Jesus. The christians believe the body and the soul of Jesus are the son of God, separate from the whole. This is an idol...to identify something as a god separate from the one and only God, as being independently capable of doing things on its own is to identify an idol. The fact that you do an action, and feel you have freedom to do it, is also an illusion, since free will is embedded in God's system and nothing happens without His will...thus man thinks he is an independent being/god on earth when he is not. Just my humble opinions.
Peace,
Omar
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salam Omar .
i kinda agree with the "life is an illusion" thing . what i disagree with are his saying that "we are part of God" and "we and God are the same" . i mean "We" can be refering to God or to the God and the angels maybe . but that understanding of his is not supported by the koran . thas wut i think.
salam. -
We are created. God is uncreated. God is alone and there is none like him. Do not associate anything with God.
What you are saying seems to be implying everything is God and thus you are associating everything with God. Its more of a shinto(?) belief where they believe there are spirits in everything. I think you are stepping on dangerous territory, so be careful and simply say there is no god but God.
It is possible that the way God can be everywhere if he exists in a higher dimension. For example we are 3rd dimensional creatures in a 3rd dimensional world. If there is 4th/5th/nth dimenion, it encompasses us and is all around us yet we could never see it of comprehend it. This is just one way of explaining Gods omnipresence.
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Peace be upon you all,
Omar has answered just as I would have answered, so I will just respond to the posts that came after his.
Saladin
i kinda agree with the "life is an illusion" thing .
Why only "kinda"? At the end of this message you speak of "quranic support", and the life of this world being an illusion is "quranically supported", so why "kinda"? Once you FULLY accept this understanding, it will get easier to accept the truth, there is only the GOD.
what i disagree with are his saying that "we are part of God" and "we and God are the same".
Take a step back, I have NEVER said that the creation and the God are the SAME, never. I have only said that we are part of the WHOLE(the God). We are an illusion. A good example is when you create characters in your mind, your mental projections are part of you, but truthfully they are illusions, in the same manner so are we created, mentally.
There is nothing you can point to that is not made from the same electrons, protons, and nuetrons, and when further broken down it is all just the very same energy/matter just in different configurations. We are approaching true monotheism! D
i mean "We" can be refering to God or to the God and the angels maybe . but that understanding of his is not supported by the koran . thas wut i think.
Knowing is superior to thinking, that is why the God tells us to say, "My Lord, increase me in KNOWLEDGE"
Riz
We are created. God is uncreated. God is alone and there is none like him. Do not associate anything with God.
I fully agree, and nothing I have stated contradicts this statement.
What you are saying seems to be implying everything is God and thus you are associating everything with God.
no, everything is PART OF GOD, not everything is God, big difference. Just like if you were creating a story, and you brought o mind characters and a whole story for a kitaab, I mean, book. The characters are part of you, they are your mental creations, but certainly Hamlet would not say "I am shakespeare!"
Its more of a shinto(?) belief where they believe there are spirits in everything. I think you are stepping on dangerous territory, so be careful and simply say there is no god but God.
What do you mean by spirits in everything? Do you mean that malaika and shayteen reside within? If so, then yes. But please elaborate on what you mean by "spirits". The spirit is another name for sub conscious, and is also called "soul". There are many terms so that there will be confusion, they need to be cleared up so we can make progress.
It is possible that the way God can be everywhere if he exists in a higher dimension.
"If" He exsists in a higher dimension? There is NO DIMESNION where the God does not reside. Omnipresent means EVERYWHERE, not just some places.
For example we are 3rd dimensional creatures in a 3rd dimensional world. If there is 4th/5th/nth dimenion, it encompasses us and is all around us yet we could never see it of comprehend it. This is just one way of explaining Gods omnipresence.
Thats a lot of guessing, why not just say EVERYWHERE, which is what Omnipresence means?
Omar gave a good recommendatin about meditation and I back that up. In fact, my recent studies of ancient Kemet (egypt) and other Eastern cultures where meditation was a dominant part of life has lead me to look closer at this subject of salaat. Meditation deals with going into the subconscious and is symbolized as the sun sinking into the horizon at dusk and the wisdom that comes from it is like the sun rising. And there are more connections I am working on which will share in time, unless the God wills.
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peace.
Saladin
i kinda agree with the "life is an illusion" thing .
Why only "kinda"? At the end of this message you speak of "quranic support", and the life of this world being an illusion is "quranically supported", so why "kinda"? Once you FULLY accept this understanding, it will get easier to accept the truth, there is only the GOD.
i have a little confusion abt the "life is illusion" topic . gotta study it again when i get the time . will tell u then .
i mean "We" can be refering to God or to the God and the angels maybe . but that understanding of his is not supported by the koran . thas wut i think.
Knowing is superior to thinking, that is why the God tells us to say, "My Lord, increase me in KNOWLEDGE"
i said "i think" because i was not sure if "we" refers to God or both God and angels . i dont want to force myself to "know" when i dont know .
peace .