marrying an adulteress / adulter
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Just a quick question. What is an adulterer/adulteress. is it someone having an affair but doesn't sleep with them or someone who actually has sex with the other person? or both?
Salaam All
Pickthall
2403 The adulterer shall not marry save an adulteress or an idolatress, and the adulteress none shall marry save an adulterer or an idolater. All that is forbidden unto believers.Yusuf Ali
2403 Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.Khalifa
2403 The adulterer will end up marrying an adulteress or an idol worshiper, and the adulteress will end up marrying an adulterer or an idol worshiper. This is prohibited for the believers.What do you think about this ayat (marrying adulters)? If it's prohibited how can women ever know whether their bridegrooms have had an affair or not? Maybe in shariah laws it would be possible with public lashing (except no witnessed affairs) but what about now? As for men, are we supposed to ask our girlfriends this before marriage? Like "have you ever commited adultery" or "are you a virgin" This would be rude.
Any ideas appreciated.
Peace...
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Salaam Nafisa,
It's a person who commits illicit sex with someone, can be both males and females.
Peace Sis Maria
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These questions (asked by Nafisa, I think) are thought-provoking ones. I myself am looking for answers to these besides the ones I have already asked
Pickthall
2403 The adulterer shall not marry save an adulteress or an idolatress, and the adulteress none shall marry save an adulterer or an idolater. All that is forbidden unto believers.Yusuf Ali
2403 Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.Khalifa
2403 The adulterer will end up marrying an adulteress or an idol worshiper, and the adulteress will end up marrying an adulterer or an idol worshiper. This is prohibited for the believers.What do you think about this ayat (marrying adulters)? If it's prohibited how can women ever know whether their bridegrooms have had an affair or not? Maybe in shariah laws it would be possible with public lashing (except no witnessed affairs) but what about now? As for men, are we supposed to ask our girlfriends this before marriage? Like "have you ever commited adultery" or "are you a virgin" This would be rude.
Any ideas appreciated.
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Salaam Sis Zehra,
Really I think this isn't so complicated as it sounds like.
How does it sounds like if i say that we shall find a suitable spouse who are like ourselves!?
It means we shall not just get married instead we shall choose a good spouse.
So when Quran points out that an adulterer only can marry an adulteress or an idolworshipper it means that they should marry someone like themselves.
Peace Sis Maria
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Salam Sis SwedenMajidah,
Am just going to reiterate my questions.So when Quran points out that an adulterer only can marry an adulteress or an idolworshipper it means that they should marry someone like themselves.
If an adulterer/adulteress can only marry someone like him/herself, then what does his/her spouse do if they are already married? Does the spouse have to divorce the adulterer/adulteress? Is it wrong for the spouse to remain married to the adulterer/adulteress?
I want to know if anyone can guide me to the exact translation of the concerned verse. Does it really state that an adulterer must not marry any but an adulteress or does it state that the adulterer does not marry any but an adulteress etc? I can see how this applies if a person takes the trouble to find out about his/her spouse-to-be before they actually get married but what about (as can often happen) a person finds out after marriage that his/her spouse has had extramarital sex before the marriage. What should that person do? Divorce? What if the couple now has children? What if the person really loves his/her spouse and is ready to forgive him/her for what has occurred? If the person continues the marriage, is s/he her/himself sinful for remaining married to an adulterer/adulteress?
Would also like further input concerning the above questions.
God bless...
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Salaam Zehra,
No, I don't find anywhere in Quran proofs of that we must divorce our spouse because he/she isn't like ourselves.
I mean if you two are happy and respect eachother there is no problem but those advice before you are married is only a guideline from God that we shall take heed of what can happen in a marriage and to avoid future problems so long as we can.
Remember God don't want to make your life more difficult instead help you and guide you in right direction.
Therefore we shall be very careful when we meet a person we feel attracted to and try to find out so much we can about that person before we involve in something more serious.
I have recently left my husband because we couldn't co operate well because we had different views on islam and he didn't respect my view and also forced me to do alot of things. And he wasn't romantic at all so i had enough.
So now I feel that i must do more research on my spouse if I found one again. Because I don't want same things happen again.
I hope you got my point!?
Take Care!
Peace Sis Maria
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Peace
I've no qwalms in marrying an adulteress. Things happen and some people repent and others do not. Repentence is only repentence when the person does not do such a thing again. I think I'd be cool if my wife did such a thing to me, but I'd hope she tell me soon afterwards because I would not want to be getting something that may have been contracted. That would be what really irks me. The 2nd time around of cheating would be the end of the marriage for me.
Joe
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To quote phoenix1
why would anyone marry an adultress/adulterer?
Many reasons you may not know that your spouse has committed fornication/adultery until after the marriage or the adultery itself may be committed after marriage or a thousand other reasons...
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Salam,
Maybe we're looking to hard for an answer, while the answer is easy to find.
241 A chapter which We have sent down and imposed, and We have sent down in it clear revelations that you may remember.
242 The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity take you over God's system if you believe in God and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.
243 The adulterer will only marry an adulteress or one who is an idolatress. And the adulteress, she will only be married to an adulterer or an idolater. And this has been forbidden for the believers.
244 And those who accuse the independent women and they do not bring forth four witnesses, then you shall lash them eighty lashes and do not ever accept their testimony. Those indeed are the evildoers.
245 Except those who repent after this and do right, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.For me it says that God makes it very clear that adultery is prohibited. And whoever breaks this rule is considered an unbeliever, because only the unbelievers break God's law. So if you commit adultery you're none better then the unbelievers. Maybe that's why God says the adulterer must marry an adulteress or an idolatress. Except orfcourse for those who repent and follow God's law again.
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What makes me wonder in this thread is the instruction for adulterers and adultresses to marry idolaters/idolatresses... doesn't this go against the prohibition of marrying idolaters? This seems like a manifest contradiction, so I'm sure we're misinterpreting something here, because certainly you cannot say that once an adulterer, always an adulterer, just as you cannot say once and idolater, always an idolater (you can always become a Muslim)
I mean, what if an adulterer marries an idolatress, who subsequently becomes a Muslim? Does this invalidate the marriage? Is the adulterer forever outside the circle of believers, and if so, shouldn't he be brought to death for leaving Islam? (the answer is no, there is a punishment for adultery which is not equivalent to that of abandoning Islam). -
peace claurianta
Is the adulterer forever outside the circle of believers, and if so, shouldn't he be brought to death for leaving Islam? (the answer is no, there is a punishment for adultery which is not equivalent to that of abandoning Islam).
where do u find death sentence for "apostasy" ?
but yes i share ur view on adulteres or idolworshippers that can change into muslims - which actually contradicts also your idea of death penalty for leaving islam....
lk
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peace again
also i would say it's not really an instruction for idolworshippers to marry their kind coz either they don't even know they're idolworshippers and then it cant pass as an instruction, or they're openly outside islam - in which case they don't take instruction from quran. I'd rather take it as an indication of what would generally happen
lk
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Salaam all,
Claurianta's questions & objections are very reasonable & valid (although I don't agree that Islam mandates the death penalty for apostasy because it does not).
That's why, as I mentioned before, I like Muhammad Asad's translation & explanation concerning the matter. Please do refer to it.
This is what he says
Would any of you agree with & comment on the above? What do you think?
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Zehra,
The interpretation you have posted from Muhammad Asad seems to be the most logical conclusing, seeing as any other conclusion would lead to allowing adultering muslims to marry idolaters.
One question that still bothers me though. It is quite clear that sex outside marriage is not allowed, but does this always result in adultery. Personally I'm inclined to think that if both are unmarried, it amounts to going against the law, but still doesn't amount to adultery, because adultery has a clear victim - the adulterer's spouse, whereas consensual sex between two unmarried persons doesn't have that third party victim. It seems to me therefore that it's two different crimes... one where there is a victim (such as the wife or husband of the adulterer, or the victim of a rapist - though I question the necessity of four witnesses in the latter case; I would be inclined to think rape is also a separate crime due to lack of consent, in which case the victim cannot be held responsible) and another where there is none. This is just personal interpretation of the Koran... because the part that forbids us from having sex before getting married does not say that it amounts to adultery (though I would agree that when one is married and the other unmarried it equals adultery for both - as per an interpretation of 2403).
Now, the questions turns to 55 which according to my translation states that only chaste women are lawful (either believers or people of the Book) - does this indicate a disallowance of marrying an adulterer? Or on the other hand, does in mean that chastity is not something that is lost forever, but rather something that can be regained. That is, can you become chaste again by repenting your sins?
Finally, I'm going to throw in a personal interpretation which I'm sure I don't share with everyone else. I think that the Koran, given all of its figurative language, is not always to be taken 100% literally (as in the case of chopping off hands). Therefore, I am inclined to think that marriage, despite the formality given to it in the Koran, means any committed relationship that is intended for the long term... so any steady relationship (keeping the normal waiting period for divorce between relationships them if there is an unforeseen break-up) would rather imply an infraction on the level of the form (lack of two witnesses and dowry) rather than implying adultery or otherwise illegal intercourse. So basically I would be inclined to assimilate them to the Koranic definition of marriage, even though they are lacking in the express formalities. As an end note, Islamic marriage doesn't seem to correspond to the traditional Western conception, seeing as divorce is allowed, and I haven't even found any specific restriction of marrying someone even though you don't plan to spend the rest of your life with them. Any ideas on this? (in general I'm one to focus much more on essence and function than on form)
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peace claurianta, all
i very much like the points you brought up and tend to have a similar interpretation
zina is usually translated as adultery or fornication (what an awful word) being sex outside mariage
but in quran there is just the one word
the laws regulating marriage (that act of marrying) are mostly civil laws quran actually doesn't say much about it except that there have to be 2 witnesses - which means it's not a secret relationship
i also believe that laws evolve with society and time, even quranic laws. to give you an example the 3 months waiting period in case of divorce could be shortended today by a pregnancy test
what doesn't change is the inherent meaning of the message - the reason to be don't cheat on your partner, respect each other, don't engage in relations just for sex which i believe should be an act of love - if not we're not above the animal in us
that's what comes over to me...
elke -
Salaam all,
Interesting points brought up by Claurianta again. However, as far as I know, the Arabic word "zina" means any sexual relations outside marriage (whether or not the parties involved are married or not). Thus, it covers both the English words "fornication" & "adultery". I don't know Arabic myself though so I can't guarantee the meaning of the word but that's the translation & explanation I have read.
I don't know about the formal requirements of marriage itself. However, I do agree with Claurianta that the rules (& punishment) for adultery/fornication do not apply to cases of rape. The Qur'an does not talk about rape so the laws pertaining to that fall under a state's domain. Rape is a totally different matter altogether and should be dealt with accordingly (There's no consent involved in the case of the victim and she cannot be punished when she has done nothing wrong. That defies logic!) -
i also believe that laws evolve with society and time, even quranic laws. to give you an example the 3 months waiting period in case of divorce could be shortended today by a pregnancy test
what doesn't change is the inherent meaning of the message - the reason to be don't cheat on your partner, respect each other, don't engage in relations just for sex which i believe should be an act of love - if not we're not above the animal in us
elkeExactly. There's one part that is the substance, the really important stuff, like don't cheat, respect etc. (which are imperative) and then there is other stuff which is more instructions or examples of how this can be accomplished, like the formalities of marriage and the waiting period in case of pregnancy, that are more suppletive in that they show A way, not THE way. Again, the distinction is of form vs. substance. We must use our knowledge and intelligence to conform to the substance given our circumstances, and if we are incapable of doing so, we can go back to the Koran and find more specific instructions, realizing that these were instructions given to a certain people at a certain time, and that while the substance doesn't change as society changes, the form can. I realize that this is a more philosophical and figurative interpretation of the Koran, but I don't think there is any part of the Koran which mandates following a literal interpretation throughout. Just have to make sure not to impose out interpretation on others though, because they have the right to believe what they may (that is between God and them, and doesn't involve me).
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Salaam,
I had to put in this old input from Johnny K, very good input indeed!
Salam,
1st of all id like 2 say tht 'non-virgin' wld not be the right term 2 use since a previously married woman wld also be a 'non-virgin' but not an adulteress. The verse clearly says tht adulterers n idolators may not be married by believers. HOWEVER dont forget tht after sincere repentance neither an idol worshipper nor an adulterer remains wht he was. Eg somebody was a Trinitarian Christian worshipping Jesus as GOD be4. Hes an idolator n such a person cannot be married 2 a believer. However when he repents n submits 2 GOD then obviously he aint an idol worshipper any more. So the verse means those ppl WHO R STILL IN IDOLATROUS OR ADULTRESS STATE OF MIND. I hope this is clear now. GOD Bless!
Peace Sis Majidah