Meditation
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Peace Sytalls,
In my humble opinion, your will is your gift. We should always strive for constant and never-ending improvement If there exists a means that is advantageous, then that means is at our disposal by God's grace, so long as one remains harmonious in his/her intent.
Hope that helps.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay...and thank you. That does help. It was also a beautifully expressed thought, which immediately brought the peaceful thought of "faith" to my mind.
I saw your post on the other forum about finding a clear pic for your avatar, which gave me an idea. What if you used a photo of the "birth" sculpture? Here's a link to an image I found. It might be slightly clearer than the painting. )
http//www.meaus.com/dali-egg.JPEG
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Peace be upon you Sytalls,
First, I agree with Tay but would state it in this manner;
Your PROGRAMMING TOOLS (verbal and visual thinking) which are used by the PROGRAMMER(the WIll) are the MALAIKA(controlling forces) at our disposal. We submit to the God and they submit to Man because they submit to the God WITHIN man. But we have to realize our DIVINITY, and not be trapped into thinking we are part of ANimal Kingdom. We are individuals (indivisible duality), but one part we are to identify with (the SEER/The One who wills) and the other part is for us to control and direct, this part is described as the NAFS(spirit).
Notice how it is stated to us that we have a NAFS, not that we ARE the NAFS.
I want to share a section from a book that I think is fantastic called "Maat The 11 Laws of God" by Ra Un Nefer Amen, which talks about the faculty SEBEK, which is our verbal thinking. It helps to explain how even positive thinking can fail when we identify with the wrong part of BEING.
"Sebek corresponds to our faculty for thinking verbally. We use it to name, describe, define, to express our belief, and our knowledge. Like the imagination it is a programming tool. This function comes into play when we affrim our beliefs, knowledge, or rational convictions.
Like the imagination, man's verbal thought faculty has been extensively used in the medical arena, hypnotherapy and meditation. In fact, it is used in conjunction with imagery in the same clinical applications detailed in the preceeding chapter. Unlike imagery however, it has recieved a little more notoriety with the masses; positive thinking, psycho cybernetics, Nuero Lingistic Programming, suto suggestion, etc.
As with imagery, it too has failed to live up to its full potential, for the same reasons. While accrording to the method of positive thinking, for example, we are told to affirm thoughts that indicate success, confidence, self esteem, and so on, the person that is affirming these positive thoughts is still no more than a human. The system doe not take into account the growth potential of man, which culminates in a divine being possessed of spiritual power, wisdom, and a peaceful nature that transcends all possible challenges in life. In the back of the person that is affirming such positive beliefs, there is the gnawing thought that one day there will come a challenge that will be beyond his/her human ability to endure. The same applies to other systems-meditation, hypnotherapy, psycho cybernetics, etc.
More important is WHO is affriming thatn what is being affrimed. If the one who is affirming is the likeness of the 11 Laws of God, then there will be no lines drawn in the sand. Only positive thoughts can flow from these laws. On the other hand, affirmations made with the view of one's self as a human being, will be oppossed by the belief that one is locked into the set of characteristics that define the hman being. Many women attending pain free birthing workshops that we give find it inconcievable that there can be such a thing. And this is still in the realm of human possibilities!
In order to enable affrimations to manifest thier FULL potential, our affirmations must be based on our understanding of the synergistic (combined) interaction of all 11 Laws as revealed by reasoning. Affrimations that are based on beliefs or faith will eventually collapse. We "believe" and declare "faith" because we cannot prove that we know."
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PEACE, IDOL,
Salaat, according to my understanding, means "process". And the implication is that it is the process of meditation, which is "talking" to the God. Dua (prayer) is the calling on the God, Al salaat(the process of meditataion) is how we get the answers.
733 Say the things that my Lord has indeed made haram are shameful deeds...and saying things about Allah of which you have no knowledge.
Main Entry OPINION belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge.
Main Entry IMPRESSION a vague idea in which some confidence is placed.
Main Entry POSITIVE not speculative incontestable independent of changing circumstances.
Main Entry KNOW be certain of.
Main Entry CERTAIN known or proved to be true indisputable, dependable, reliable.
Main Entry KNOWLEDGE the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association.
Main Entry FACT the quality of being actual something that has actual existence a piece of information presented as having objective reality- in fact in truth.
Main Entry ACTUAL existing in fact or reality not false or apparent.
Main EntryTRUTH the state of being the case fact the body of real things, events, and facts actuality.
Main EntryREAL not artificial, fraudulent, illusory, or apparent occurring in fact.
Main Entry CONJECTURE supposition inference from defective or presumptive evidence b a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork.
Main Entry IMPLY to involve or indicate by inference, association, or necessary consequence rather than by direct statement.
I'm bewildered by your continued use of the term imply, which means you are only opinion making/conjecturing. Per the above ayat, Allah, forbids anyone to conjecture about Him. It is fine to give one's understanding, but an understanding, as opposed to implying/conjecturing/opinion making, is based on an ayat or ayats and not one's imagination of a thing.
With this said
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what ayat states that mankind talks to Allah by way of "salat"?
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what ayat says through the salaat (the process of meditataion) is how we get the answers?
Looking forward to your reply.
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Peace PRIEST_BOKMEI,
(PM) 3342-44
O you who believe, you shall remember God frequently.
And glorify Him morning and evening.
He is the One who supports/"yusalli ?laykoum" you, along with His Angels, to lead you out of darkness into the light. And He is ever Merciful towards the believers.--
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PEACE, SOMEONE,
Peace PRIEST_BOKMEI,
(PM) 3342-44
O you who believe, you shall remember God frequently.
And glorify Him morning and evening.
He is the One who supports/"yusalli ?laykoum" you, along with His Angels, to lead you out of darkness into the light. And He is ever Merciful towards the believers.--
What are you trying to convey? Please don't drop ayats and then not explain why, it is not at all helpful. Please explain yourself, thanks.
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Peace Priest_Bokmei and all,
what ayat states that mankind talks to Allah by way of "salat"?
In salat we are to recite ayaat from Al-Qur'aan while turning towards Allah which is akin to talking to Allah
2946 Recite what is inspired to thou of the Scripture, and uphold the contact-method; for the contact-method prohibits evil and vice, and the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.
3530 Surely, those who recite God's Scripture, and uphold the contact-method, and spend secretly and openly from what We have provided them, they are seeking a trade that can never lose.what ayat says through the salaat (the process of meditataion) is how we get the answers?
The following ayat could be it
1188 They said "O Shu'ayb, does your contact-method order you that we leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please? You are the compassionate, the sane!"
Having said that, I do not think that salat is a process of meditation. Meditation is a method of quieting the mind and focusing and LISTENING to Allah. Salat is a process or method of turning towards and making a connection or contact with Allah by remembering and glorifying Him, which is both mental and physical and primarily involves ORATION of ayaat of Al-Qur'aan in a moderate tone. Through this process we are regularly reminded of Allah and that helps us to closely follow Allah's commands and to ponder or meditate on the universe in a better way, thereby submitting to Him. So salat helps us to meditate but is not meditation itself.
Salat is to be upheld at certain times but meditation can be done any time, while standing, sitting ot lying down
3192 Those who remember God while standing, and sitting, and on their sides, and they ponder in the creation of the heavens and the Earth "Our Lord you did not create this without purpose, be You glorified, spare us the retribution of the Fire!"
Please see the following link to an interesting article by Edip about salat
http//19.org/index.php?id=14,276,0,0,1,0
Regards,
Tanveer
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Peace upon you PRIEST_BOKMEI, all
Those verses say that the god "yusalli" on those who "a'manou", to lead them out of darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge).
When meditating or simply thinking, we are making new links and taking off other links, trying to match our conception of things with the "reality" of these things. We seek to get closer to the truth of things. And the ultimate truth is the god, thus we are in fact seeking to get closer to the god.
And when one seeks the god, the god surely answers the call and estalishs a link with him, thus "yusalli".
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PEACE, SOMEONE,
Those verses say that the god "yusalli" on those who "a'manou", to lead them out of darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge).
When meditating or simply thinking, we are making new links and taking off other links, trying to match our conception of things with the "reality" of these things. We seek to get closer to the truth of things. And the ultimate truth is the god, thus we are in fact seeking to get closer to the god.
And when one seeks the god, the god surely answers the call and estalishs a link with him, thus "yusalli".
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It is my understanding that yusalli, means that Allah performs salat as well. Is salli, not salat?
Looking forward to your reply.
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PEACE, TANVER MD
Please answer the following question below, it will clear many things up. Please simply answer yes or no, thanks.
GUIDANCE the instructions on how to live a righteous life in this world (especially, not to do shirk) , so that, one may successfuly pass the test of conduct , so that, one may avoid the destiny of Hell and gain the destiny of Paradise .
A. 53...This day have I perfected for you your deen and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Al-Islam as a deen...
Main Entry PERFECT/ED being entirely without fault or defect flawless satisfying all requirements pure, total lacking in no essential detail complete meaning not lacking or faulty in any particular to bring to final form.
Main Entry COMPLETE having all necessary parts, elements, or steps.
Q. What is meant by necessary, essential, indispensable, and detailed?
A. Main Entry NECESSARY an indispensable item logically unavoidable that cannot be denied without contradiction
Main Entry ESSENTIAL something on which an outcome turns or depends. something necessary, indispensable, or unavoidable of the utmost importance indispensible necessary mean so important as to be indispensable belonging to the very nature of a thing and therefore being incapable of removal without destroying the thing itself or its character applies to something that is a foundation without which an entire system or complex whole would collapse suggests something that is necessary to a thing's continued existence or operation.
Main Entry INDISPENSABLE absolutely necessary essential.
Main Entry DETAIL to report minutely and distinctly specify marked by abundant thoroughness in treating small items or parts.
THE QUESTION
Did Allah leave out any necessary/essential/indispensible detail from Al-Quran, His Perfect and Complete Book of Guidance, which could result in an individuals going astray and inevitably going to HELL? Yes or no?
Looking forward to your reply.
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Peace Priest_Bokmei,
Did Allah leave out any necessary/essential/indispensible detail from Al-Quran, His Perfect and Complete Book of Guidance, which could result in an individuals going astray and inevitably going to HELL? Yes or no?
The answer is No.
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Peace all.
Thanks for that information, idolfree. You've given me quite a bit to think about. While I don't do affirmations about "belief" and "faith," I was interested in the human potential you mentioned. There have been many times in my life when I've experienced amazing changes in my life when I've simply shifted my attitude, as well as using visualization.
But knowing that thoughts precede actions, I'd wanted to refine my "positive meditations" to make sure I wasn't trying to seize control in any way. What you and Tay said about will and alignment and harmony have helped clarify my own thinking about certain aspects.
By the way, I've had some very interesting PMs about 'nafs' with another FM poster. Sort of a free for all discussion along the lines of the comment you made about the nafs. D Seems the more I've opened myself up to study and reflection on this subject, the more I discover.
For salat and contact-method, I have a personal path I follow in terms of what I feel is my daily duty. It is one that I learned in stages over the years since I first chose the path of submission. Oh, and I've been practicing meditation since I was 10...although it never brought me quite the peace I was looking for until I decided to become Muslim (insert usual labeling apologies here). There was an experience I had not too long ago that gave me a sort of "knowing" that what I was doing should remain basically the same, with some refinement in my practices.
For meditation, I find great value in hearing about others' experiences and discoveries...wonderful opportunities to gain new spiritual insights.
So peace, thanks and God Bless.
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Peace be upon you Sytalls,
There was an experience I had not too long ago that gave me a sort of "knowing" that what I was doing should remain basically the same, with some refinement in my practices.
Please share with me, wether on this thread, or a private message, your method of "salat". I would like to hear how you do it so I might gain some further insight.
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Peace to you, idolfree.
I'll be glad to share this info with you, but I think it might be sort of boring. Except for one thing that happened only a month or two ago, which sort of capped things off and brought me here to this forum. If I can get something pulled together this evening that sounds like it may be halfway useful to anyone, I'll either post it or run it by you in a PM for feedback.
Thanks for asking.
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PEACE, TANVEER MD,
Peace Priest_Bokmei,
Did Allah leave out any necessary/essential/indispensible detail from Al-Quran, His Perfect and Complete Book of Guidance, which could result in an individuals going astray and inevitably going to HELL? Yes or no?
The answer is No.
All praises due to Allah. The only sane/taqwa answer to that question is "no", hence, Al-Quran, relative to/specific to/in respect to--- the instructions on how to live a righteous life in this world (especially, not to do shirk) , so that, one may successfuly pass the test of conduct , so that, one may avoid the destiny of Hell and gain the destiny of Paradise , is fully detailed. For if it weren't, then mankind would inevitably/inexorably...be lead to...HELL.
Good deal, Tanveer.
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Peace Sytalls, Kyle,
My apologies for missing your replies as the thread seemed to grow exponentially overnight.
Anyhoo...
Sytalls, you stated
Peace Tay...and thank you. That does help. It was also a beautifully expressed thought, which immediately brought the peaceful thought of "faith" to my mind.
I humbly thank you for your thanks and kind words. And thank you for the suggestion about my avatar. I'll try to implement it tomorrow.
Kyle, you stated
Your PROGRAMMING TOOLS (verbal and visual thinking) which are used by the PROGRAMMER(the WIll) are the MALAIKA(controlling forces) at our disposal. We submit to the God and they submit to Man because they submit to the God WITHIN man. But we have to realize our DIVINITY, and not be trapped into thinking we are part of ANimal Kingdom. We are individuals (indivisible duality), but one part we are to identify with (the SEER/The One who wills) and the other part is for us to control and direct, this part is described as the NAFS(spirit).
I agree wholeheartedly. Thank you for further clarifying. I enjoyed the quote you shared as well. It is truly amazing to me how this same concept can span millenia and culture. Surely, it is truth.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay and Kyle,
Glad to see the new avatar worked out, Tay. Dali's works are remarkable. They sometimes effect me on a level that is difficult to describe...a gut reaction that takes time to sort out at the conscious level. Maybe this will make sense to you somehow, but it's almost as if I "smell" the paintings without any involvement of the sense of smell. D Or maybe I'm just at a complete loss of words to describe the sensation.
There are some Dali paintings that make me want to recoil when I first look at them. But if I push inward, then I get a different feeling, as if my mind has to work through certain outward "prejudices" to get to the soul of the painting and appreciate what I'm seeing and experiencing.
Okay, Kyle...I'm going to share my salat experience. I hope it's not too boring. Or worse, not too santa clausy! lol
Basically, I never did like the way I was taught to pray after becoming Muslim (usual apologies here). After a couple of years, I started tossing aside a lot of what I'd been taught by sunni people I knew. I'd converted (more apologies here but I'm shortcutting) after reading the Quran, so I decided to put aside people-teachings and carefully examine what I found in God's Message. And I tried to honestly seek God's guidance, so that I wasn't simply following my own desires. This was about 20 years ago.
The first thing I dropped was the Muhammed part of the shahada. Made no sense to me, and it fit with what The Quran said about having no partners with God or making no distinction between the prophets. Then I changed how I did my wudu based on what I read in the Quran.
Next, I sought guidance about how to so a ritualistic prayer five times within a daily structure that wasn't conducive to such a thing. With meditation and seeking guidance and reading the Quran, I sort of knew somehow (call it inspiration, a whisper, I'm not sure) that it was okay for me to simply stop and remember God, say my own prayer and do some reflection for as long as I was able. Which I did five times a day.
And I still do that five times a day. But here's why...I'd been reading articles on the FM site for several months, and yet somehow the salat articles hadn't come into my visual range. And I'd looked at this message board and found, early on, there were mostly posts about hadith. Since I always refused to read the hadith, I didn't read very many posts or get involved.
Then a short time ago, this atheist asked me, in the course of a discussion about morality and ethics, what I would do if someone could prove to me--beyond reasonable doubt--there was no God. How would I behave?
I gave her question considerable thought and the answer I came up with was that probably not much would change in terms of my daily practices. What I realized (and shared with the atheist woman) was that what I'd learned as a Muslim was good for me as a person, in general. I told her that my five daily prayer times would become five meditation times, and that I would still fast because I found it beneficial.
Well, lo and behold (as we like to say down South), within a day or two, I wandered over to the FM site for a little reading and there was a salat article right in front of me. Can't remember what I clicked on, but I do remember that the article practically jumped out at me.
Suddenly, I was faced with new thoughts about the subject of daily prayer and rememberance and contact-method. Almost immediately, I knew (again, not sure how--just a sense of knowing inside) that I was being challenged on what I'd said to the atheist woman. Would I really continue the same five times a day pattern? For me, I knew the answer was "yes."
I'm not at all suggesting this applies to everyone...because maybe I need remedial work. D I just know with peaceful certainty that this is the correct way for me to proceed--with some refinements based on the knowledge I'd gained. Now I pay special attention to sunrise and sunset times, incorporating some Arabic recitations of parts of the Quran that have special meaning to me, as well as setting aside extra time for reading the Quran.
After finding the article and making my salat refinements, a couple of days later, I decided to click on the message forum. Even as I did so, I was sort of just surfing and thinking I'd probably glance at all the hadith/anti-hadith thread topics before getting back to whatever work I was supposed to be doing (and procrastinating my way out of at that moment). Instead, I found all these rich and wonderful discussions taking place! I cautiously posted on the "mixing with the opposite sex" topic, since I'd been rejected and discounted by sunni because of my gender and my unwillingness to keep my "place" in life (according to their assignment).
And it may help to know that I found the FM site in the first place after a trying period in my life, when I was questioning whether I'd done the right thing in going against what the sunni people taught me. Was I being rebellious? Or was I doing what God wanted? When I found the FM articles, the information I was reading made sense!
So first came the discovery of the site and views that were very much like my own. Then, when I'd answered the question about my daily practices, I found the salat article and then the forum. For the first time ever, I was communicating with people who had beliefs very similar to my own.
D I actually cried through the first four or five posts I wrote, as well as while reading responses...just out of sheer gratitude to God and relief that there were people to discuss things with at long last. Debate and discussion are excellent ways to cement an idea or let go of it. The battle is always within. If I can debate a point and feel comfortable with my stand, then I know it's a solid area. But if I find I'm struggling too hard to convince someone of a point (which is usually really only a way of trying to convince myself), then I know it's time for a second look at an idea or conclusion I reached without thorough exploration.
And always there is the sheer delight of finding true brothers and sisters after spending more than 20 years in isolation. Because, before, it was either isolate myself or risk losing my faith among those who followed a path that seemed so totally not right to me.
Thank God for delivering me from exile. Without even knowing any of you personally, and without always agreeing with everything said, I feel a strong connection to people here--a love, if you will, that goes beyond any reason that I even comprehend.
All right, I'm reaching my mushy and sentimental state again and getting well past the question about salat...so God Bless and Peace. And thank you so much for being here. And thanks to God, once more.
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Peace Tay and Kyle,
Glad to see the new avatar worked out, Tay. Dali's works are remarkable. They sometimes effect me on a level that is difficult to describe...a gut reaction that takes time to sort out at the conscious level. Maybe this will make sense to you somehow, but it's almost as if I "smell" the paintings without any involvement of the sense of smell. Or maybe I'm just at a complete loss of words to describe the sensation.Dali is the master of Surrealist Style of painting. The imagery of the paintings are the imagery of dreams and nightmares. Thats why we react to them as we would react to dreams and nightmares A sense of bewilderement and fascination and fear.
These images surfaces from the deep "unconscious" part of our self, that is why we find Dali's painting unsettling and fascinating. But the power of symbolism in Surrealist Art, I think is, its defining characteristic. The ants crawling on the melting clock, elephants on stilts and giraffes on fire, these things take you beyond the rational to realm of the imaginations, just like experts Meditators try to go beyond the rationality of everyday thought patterns so does Dali's paintings...
Regards,
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Peace be upon you Sytalls,
Very deep post! And I agree that my Free Minds family, without having met any of you personally, holds a very high place in my life. Your statements about how you felt as you were reading the posts for the first time is similar to when I read some articles on Submission.org. Scary yet liberating at the same time. I say scary because unlike you, I was unaware of this viewpoint, but it was all making sense (unfortunately I swallowed the 19 with it for a time).
Regarding salaat, I only see dawn and dusk, but certainly more than what is recommended cant hurt. wink
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Peace all
I lost track of this thread for a while.
LT, thanks for putting what I was trying to say about Dali (and surrealism) into the right words. While I understand something about art, it's not at the top of head...clearly! Whenever I go to an exhibit or visit a museum, I admit I have to brush up ahead of time. Even then, it is always better if I do a lot more listening than talking.
Idolfree, I thought I'd better say that I do agree with you about dawn and dusk being the only times mentioned in the Quran. Those are my times to listen to or recite certain suras as part of my salat, and has to do with the vibrational thing Tay and I were discussing on another thread.
The other times, I use for simple prayers and/or meditation...sort of "stop and remember" breaks in the day that I somehow knew were right for me.
There's a saying that Christians often use when talking about when they feel inspired to do something. They say, "God laid it on my heart." ) I think that's a pretty good description.