Meditation
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Peace Sytalls, Kyle,
My apologies for missing your replies as the thread seemed to grow exponentially overnight.
Anyhoo...
Sytalls, you stated
Peace Tay...and thank you. That does help. It was also a beautifully expressed thought, which immediately brought the peaceful thought of "faith" to my mind.
I humbly thank you for your thanks and kind words. And thank you for the suggestion about my avatar. I'll try to implement it tomorrow.
Kyle, you stated
Your PROGRAMMING TOOLS (verbal and visual thinking) which are used by the PROGRAMMER(the WIll) are the MALAIKA(controlling forces) at our disposal. We submit to the God and they submit to Man because they submit to the God WITHIN man. But we have to realize our DIVINITY, and not be trapped into thinking we are part of ANimal Kingdom. We are individuals (indivisible duality), but one part we are to identify with (the SEER/The One who wills) and the other part is for us to control and direct, this part is described as the NAFS(spirit).
I agree wholeheartedly. Thank you for further clarifying. I enjoyed the quote you shared as well. It is truly amazing to me how this same concept can span millenia and culture. Surely, it is truth.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay and Kyle,
Glad to see the new avatar worked out, Tay. Dali's works are remarkable. They sometimes effect me on a level that is difficult to describe...a gut reaction that takes time to sort out at the conscious level. Maybe this will make sense to you somehow, but it's almost as if I "smell" the paintings without any involvement of the sense of smell. D Or maybe I'm just at a complete loss of words to describe the sensation.
There are some Dali paintings that make me want to recoil when I first look at them. But if I push inward, then I get a different feeling, as if my mind has to work through certain outward "prejudices" to get to the soul of the painting and appreciate what I'm seeing and experiencing.
Okay, Kyle...I'm going to share my salat experience. I hope it's not too boring. Or worse, not too santa clausy! lol
Basically, I never did like the way I was taught to pray after becoming Muslim (usual apologies here). After a couple of years, I started tossing aside a lot of what I'd been taught by sunni people I knew. I'd converted (more apologies here but I'm shortcutting) after reading the Quran, so I decided to put aside people-teachings and carefully examine what I found in God's Message. And I tried to honestly seek God's guidance, so that I wasn't simply following my own desires. This was about 20 years ago.
The first thing I dropped was the Muhammed part of the shahada. Made no sense to me, and it fit with what The Quran said about having no partners with God or making no distinction between the prophets. Then I changed how I did my wudu based on what I read in the Quran.
Next, I sought guidance about how to so a ritualistic prayer five times within a daily structure that wasn't conducive to such a thing. With meditation and seeking guidance and reading the Quran, I sort of knew somehow (call it inspiration, a whisper, I'm not sure) that it was okay for me to simply stop and remember God, say my own prayer and do some reflection for as long as I was able. Which I did five times a day.
And I still do that five times a day. But here's why...I'd been reading articles on the FM site for several months, and yet somehow the salat articles hadn't come into my visual range. And I'd looked at this message board and found, early on, there were mostly posts about hadith. Since I always refused to read the hadith, I didn't read very many posts or get involved.
Then a short time ago, this atheist asked me, in the course of a discussion about morality and ethics, what I would do if someone could prove to me--beyond reasonable doubt--there was no God. How would I behave?
I gave her question considerable thought and the answer I came up with was that probably not much would change in terms of my daily practices. What I realized (and shared with the atheist woman) was that what I'd learned as a Muslim was good for me as a person, in general. I told her that my five daily prayer times would become five meditation times, and that I would still fast because I found it beneficial.
Well, lo and behold (as we like to say down South), within a day or two, I wandered over to the FM site for a little reading and there was a salat article right in front of me. Can't remember what I clicked on, but I do remember that the article practically jumped out at me.
Suddenly, I was faced with new thoughts about the subject of daily prayer and rememberance and contact-method. Almost immediately, I knew (again, not sure how--just a sense of knowing inside) that I was being challenged on what I'd said to the atheist woman. Would I really continue the same five times a day pattern? For me, I knew the answer was "yes."
I'm not at all suggesting this applies to everyone...because maybe I need remedial work. D I just know with peaceful certainty that this is the correct way for me to proceed--with some refinements based on the knowledge I'd gained. Now I pay special attention to sunrise and sunset times, incorporating some Arabic recitations of parts of the Quran that have special meaning to me, as well as setting aside extra time for reading the Quran.
After finding the article and making my salat refinements, a couple of days later, I decided to click on the message forum. Even as I did so, I was sort of just surfing and thinking I'd probably glance at all the hadith/anti-hadith thread topics before getting back to whatever work I was supposed to be doing (and procrastinating my way out of at that moment). Instead, I found all these rich and wonderful discussions taking place! I cautiously posted on the "mixing with the opposite sex" topic, since I'd been rejected and discounted by sunni because of my gender and my unwillingness to keep my "place" in life (according to their assignment).
And it may help to know that I found the FM site in the first place after a trying period in my life, when I was questioning whether I'd done the right thing in going against what the sunni people taught me. Was I being rebellious? Or was I doing what God wanted? When I found the FM articles, the information I was reading made sense!
So first came the discovery of the site and views that were very much like my own. Then, when I'd answered the question about my daily practices, I found the salat article and then the forum. For the first time ever, I was communicating with people who had beliefs very similar to my own.
D I actually cried through the first four or five posts I wrote, as well as while reading responses...just out of sheer gratitude to God and relief that there were people to discuss things with at long last. Debate and discussion are excellent ways to cement an idea or let go of it. The battle is always within. If I can debate a point and feel comfortable with my stand, then I know it's a solid area. But if I find I'm struggling too hard to convince someone of a point (which is usually really only a way of trying to convince myself), then I know it's time for a second look at an idea or conclusion I reached without thorough exploration.
And always there is the sheer delight of finding true brothers and sisters after spending more than 20 years in isolation. Because, before, it was either isolate myself or risk losing my faith among those who followed a path that seemed so totally not right to me.
Thank God for delivering me from exile. Without even knowing any of you personally, and without always agreeing with everything said, I feel a strong connection to people here--a love, if you will, that goes beyond any reason that I even comprehend.
All right, I'm reaching my mushy and sentimental state again and getting well past the question about salat...so God Bless and Peace. And thank you so much for being here. And thanks to God, once more.
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Peace Tay and Kyle,
Glad to see the new avatar worked out, Tay. Dali's works are remarkable. They sometimes effect me on a level that is difficult to describe...a gut reaction that takes time to sort out at the conscious level. Maybe this will make sense to you somehow, but it's almost as if I "smell" the paintings without any involvement of the sense of smell. Or maybe I'm just at a complete loss of words to describe the sensation.Dali is the master of Surrealist Style of painting. The imagery of the paintings are the imagery of dreams and nightmares. Thats why we react to them as we would react to dreams and nightmares A sense of bewilderement and fascination and fear.
These images surfaces from the deep "unconscious" part of our self, that is why we find Dali's painting unsettling and fascinating. But the power of symbolism in Surrealist Art, I think is, its defining characteristic. The ants crawling on the melting clock, elephants on stilts and giraffes on fire, these things take you beyond the rational to realm of the imaginations, just like experts Meditators try to go beyond the rationality of everyday thought patterns so does Dali's paintings...
Regards,
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Peace be upon you Sytalls,
Very deep post! And I agree that my Free Minds family, without having met any of you personally, holds a very high place in my life. Your statements about how you felt as you were reading the posts for the first time is similar to when I read some articles on Submission.org. Scary yet liberating at the same time. I say scary because unlike you, I was unaware of this viewpoint, but it was all making sense (unfortunately I swallowed the 19 with it for a time).
Regarding salaat, I only see dawn and dusk, but certainly more than what is recommended cant hurt. wink
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Peace all
I lost track of this thread for a while.
LT, thanks for putting what I was trying to say about Dali (and surrealism) into the right words. While I understand something about art, it's not at the top of head...clearly! Whenever I go to an exhibit or visit a museum, I admit I have to brush up ahead of time. Even then, it is always better if I do a lot more listening than talking.
Idolfree, I thought I'd better say that I do agree with you about dawn and dusk being the only times mentioned in the Quran. Those are my times to listen to or recite certain suras as part of my salat, and has to do with the vibrational thing Tay and I were discussing on another thread.
The other times, I use for simple prayers and/or meditation...sort of "stop and remember" breaks in the day that I somehow knew were right for me.
There's a saying that Christians often use when talking about when they feel inspired to do something. They say, "God laid it on my heart." ) I think that's a pretty good description.
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Peace be upon you Sytalls,
I have no disagreement regarding the extra times you choose to stop and meditate. I am certainly in full agreement with the timings of dawn and dusk and that they are ceratinaly special times in the energies of the universe.
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Peace be upon you all,
I was doing research on "shaytaan and ca,e across the following verse which, in my opinion, furthers the position of meditation being related to "salaa"
(811) When the slumber/dozing/lethargy covers you, safety/security from Him, and He descends water on you from the sky to clean you with it and eliminate/wipe off the shaytani's filth , and to bond/encourage on your hearts/minds and affirm/strengthen with it the feet.
Meditation is the act of going into trance, a relaxed, peaceful state, in order to get wisdom(rain) from the God to remove the stain of shaytaan. The God says to seek help through patience and salaa. This is what prevents evil deeds.
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Salam Idolfree
now, i have a question. How do you know when you have achieved "stillness of the mind"
And, I learned somewhere that the process of CHEWING helps you think because when we chew, our brain thinks we are getting in more food, so it releases stored glucose into itself and the rest of the body. That means chewing gum can also be a form of meditation. -
Peace be upon you Pheonix1,
now, i have a question. How do you know when you have achieved "stillness of the mind"
I would say that is when you have no thought drifts entering your field of awareness. You are only conscious of BEING CONSCIOUSNESS ITSELF.
This is all I can say regarding that until I verify it for myself as I am in the process of doing. It takes time to get there, to build up good posture, breathing properly and stomach strength.
Regarding gum chewing, if it makes you think more, than it is not what you want to do to meditate, we want to stop thinking because thinking prevents us from listening.
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Peace be upon you,
I wanted to add, this is also why one must lock thier eyes on thier nose or at the point betwen the eyes because eye movement creates thoughts. We can see this in sleeping, when we dream, the eyes move following the thoughts/images, when we dont dream, the eyes are locked, and it is this time when we go back to the SOURCE to be rejuvinated.
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Salam Idolfree,
i know that breathing deeply helps us relax, but
dont chewing and breathing ultimately lead to the same thing, more energy to your brain?
Also, i'm having some trouble breathing with my lower abdomen. and my posture.
and again about chewing, it doesnt have to be food, it can be anything. And i read something about how to meditate while chewing(with steps and everything), but again, saying im a novice at meditation is an understatement, so help me out. Also, when i asked my friend at school if he meditated, he goes "no... i masturbate." D -
Peace be upon you Pheonix
i know that breathing deeply helps us relax, but
dont chewing and breathing ultimately lead to the same thing, more energy to your brain?
I dont know what chewing gum does, but according to what yuo stated before, you said it helps you to think. What we are trying to do is to remove all thoughts. So chewing gum would give us the opposite effect of what we are looking for. It is our own thoughts that block out the God's "voice".
Also, i'm having some trouble breathing with my lower abdomen. and my posture.
I can recommend the book "Tree of Life meditation" by Ra Un Nefer Amen
and again about chewing, it doesnt have to be food, it can be anything. And i read something about how to meditate while chewing(with steps and everything), but again, saying im a novice at meditation is an understatement, so help me out. Also, when i asked my friend at school if he meditated, he goes "no... i masturbate."
Well tell him he is wasting a lot of "life force" (ruh) by masturbating.
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salam
about chewing, what i meant was that it gives your brain energy and that would mean a better ability to think, or concentrate or whatever. But whatever it is, it should be good for meditation because breathing is good too.
and what is "life force?"
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Peace be upon you Pheonix1,
about chewing, what i meant was that it gives your brain energy and that would mean a better ability to think, or concentrate or whatever.
Well first thing I guess would be to figure out what it does (think, concentrate, or whatever). We have to nail it down in order to work though it. If it is about thining then no, we are trying to STILL our thoughts in order to "hear" the God.
But whatever it is, it should be good for meditation because breathing is good too.
Breathing is good because it can be proven objectively. Until you are certain about what chewing gum does, I wouldnt say it "should be".
and what is "life force?"
Life Force is the Divine Energy that underlies all material exsistence. It is the difference between a dead body and a live body. It is what this reading(quran) refers to as "ruh", what chinese refer to as "chi", Hindus "prana", and what the Holy Spirit of the Bible is supposed to refer to. It expresses itself as EMOTIONS (energy in motion).
There is a whole science of acupuncture that deals with manipulating this energy, as well as Chi Gong and Tai Chi, etc.
When we avoid anger, sadness, fear and all other incorrect expressions of this energy, it is the vehicle that puts us in the right place at the right time and brings things to us that we need. But we have to be at PEACE/NON EMOTIONAL for this to work. This is what SOLOMON helps us to understand (Solomon comes form the same root as PEACE S-L-M)
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Peace idolfree1,
Life Force is the Divine Energy that underlies all material exsistence. It is the difference between a dead body and a live body. It is what this reading(quran) refers to as "ruh", what chinese refer to as "chi", Hindus "prana", and what the Holy Spirit of the Bible is supposed to refer to. It expresses itself as EMOTIONS (energy in motion).
Do animals have a "ruh"? because they are living creatures, and going by your definition they should "possess" a "ruh", while in the scripture only humans have a "ruh" given by the god.
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Peace be upon you Someone,
Do animals have a "ruh"?
"ruh" just means energy. It is that which animates, which is where animals got thier description.
because they are living creatures, and going by your definition they should "possess" a "ruh",
The way you are wording it, I am wondering if you are refering to the nafs(spirit).
while in the scripture only humans have a "ruh" given by the god.
Where does it say that?
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Salam someone, there is someone on this forum that shares your view. check out the "created from mud" thread in the science section (last page by the way).
As for me, im still confused as to what ruh is. If what your saying is true, idolfree, then isnt it also true that we get energy to live and move through the food we eat? is food what gives existence to the ruh?
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Peace be upon you Someone,
I wouldnt put it that way. The "ruh" is just energy. Animals have energy too. So do plants and even minerals.