Mingling with the opposite sex ????

shamsul-arefin

bump

Natu

I think the only verse we can talk a great deal about is that which tells the different sexes to lower their gaze (don't know exact numbers tho). I think God's pulled a clever one again, a short stament to give all the information we need. The perfect advice - No faffing about. So the contact shouldn't be too physical, but not limited in any other way. Thats my understanding anyway.

muslim1118

peace to all,
yes i mingle........no i don't go beyond bounds.........i have to intermingle because i'm cleaning the offices of different companies.....gotta interact with people.........but it doesn't mean i have to "fool around"

ron_mexico

Peace,

I know this is your father and it maybe disrespectful to ask him but if someone claims that something is prohibited then they should show the evidence, rather than someone disproving it.

Nural

i agree with t is. if the father is so adamant that the quran prohibits it he should show his son the verse to put an end to any doubt.

logically why would there be a verse saying "mingling is allowed" anyway? it's not possible for the quran to list all things that are allowed, we don't expect to see statements to let us know that we can use pencils, eat pancakes, wear jeans, read email and so on

ThaPhenom

Peace,

Ron Mexico??? lol Are you serious? What possesed you to choose that name?

http//www.sportsfanmagazine.com/images/stories/columnists/pickle_vick.jpg

http//i23.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/f4/41/1c_1_b.JPG

asifwadud

Okay, I will take the pain to quote some translations related to the topic,

First from Quaran
024.030
YUSUFALI Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty that will make for greater purity for them And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.
PICKTHAL Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and be modest. That is purer for them. Lo! Allah is aware of what they do.
SHAKIR Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.

024.031
YUSUFALI And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

For those of you who believe in Hadith
"Not one of you should meet a woman alone unless she is accompanied by a relative (mahram)" (Bukhari/Muslim).

The Prophet (peace be upon him) also reportedly said, "Whenever a man is alone with a woman, Satan (Shaytan) is the third among them" (Tirmidhi).

I would not go into explaining the verses. I leave it up to the experts.

brook

Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty (2430). And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty (2431).

I believe the confusion stems from the word modesty, which is supposed to correspond to furuuj in the Arabic text. However, furuuj is actually genital organs rather than modesty.

It is a historical fact that the Arabs that these verses adressed in the first place were too poor to afford decent clothes to cover their genital organs; they were in the open especially when they bent down and prostrated during their salat prayers.

So God gives here two pices of advice

(1)Guard your genital organs by covering them decently
(2)Lower your gaze so that you will not be expressly staring at thepeople's genital organs

The verses have got nothing to with mingling the opposite sexes. On the contrary, God does allow the two opposite sexes to mingle (2461)

No blame attaches to the blind, nor does blame attach to the lame, nor does blame attach to the sick, and neither to yourselves for eating in your (children's) houses, or your fathers' houses, or your mothers' houses, or your brothers' houses, or your sisters' houses, or your paternal uncles' houses, or your paternal aunts' houses, or your maternal uncles' houses, or your maternal aunts' houses, or the house of any of your friends; nor will you incur any sin by eating in company or separately...

Peace,
Hasan

asifwadud

I don't think "the house of any of your friends" allows you to intermingle with opposite sex. Before you go interpreting the verses you need to know in which context they were delivered. This is what is said in Tafsir.com

The Muslims used to go out on military campaigns with the Messenger of Allah and they would give their keys to people they trusted and say, We permit you to eat whatever you need.' But they would say, It is not permissible for us to eat, they have given us permission reluctantly and we are only trustees.' Then Allah revealed the ayah by granting permission to eat from their friends house there is no sin on you if you eat from their houses, so long as you know that this does not upset them and they do not dislike it. If you visit the link here
http//www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=24&tid=36377

you will know what is meant by "nor will you incur any sin by eating in company or separately". Nothing is said that allows intermingling of opposite sexes in this verse to my understanding.

unknownuser

Salaamun alaikum all,

IMO intermingling of opposite sexes or same sex, secretly or publicly, is ok as far as following conditions are met

Lower your gaze and dress appropriately

2431 Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do.
2432 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not show-off their beauty except what is apparent, and let them cast their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not show-off their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.
3360 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.

Righteous conversation

2234 And there is no sin upon you if you openly propose marriage to these women, or you keep it between yourselves. God knows that you will be thinking of them, but do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to say.

Be aware of Allah's presence

588 Do you not realise that God knows everything in the heavens and everything on Earth? No three people can meet secretly without Him being their fourth, nor five without Him being the sixth, nor less than that, nor more, without Him being there with them wherever they may be. Then, on the Day of Resurrection, He will inform them of everything they had done. God is fully aware of all things.

Meet for righteousness and piety and avoid sin and transgression

5810 O you who believe, if you must meet secretly, then you shall not meet to commit sin, transgression, and to disobey the messenger. You shall meet to work righteousness and piety. And be aware of God, before whom you will be summoned.

Avoid lewd, immoral or indecent acts including adultery/fornication

1733 And do not come near adultery, for it is a sin and an evil path.
2569 And those who do not call on any other god with God, nor do they kill the life that God has made forbidden except in justice, nor do they commit adultery; and whosoever does that will receive the punishment.
6013 O you prophet, if the believing women come to make allegiance to you that they will not set up anything beside God, nor steal, nor commit adultery, nor kill their unborn children, nor fabricate any falsehood, nor disobey you in any matter which is righteous, then you shall accept their allegiance, and ask God to forgive them. God is Forgiver, Merciful.

6153 Say "Come let me recite to you what your Lord has forbidden for you that you should not set up anything with Him; and be kind to your parents; and do not kill your unborn children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is plain of it or subtle; and do not kill the soul which God has forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."
732 Say "My Lord has forbidden all lewd action, what is obvious from them and what is subtle, and sin, and aggression without cause
4235 And those who avoid gross sins and lewdness, and when they are angered, they forgive.
5332 They avoid major sins and lewdness, except for minor offences

If all above conditions are met then IMO there is no prohibition on intermingling. Allah is Merciful and He will probably forgive minor offences (5332).

Regards,

Tanveer

ammarb87

And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed

What does this mean ?
Does it mean dancing isnt allowed .. ??? or wearing high-heels etc .. btw Tanverr do u believe in the Hijab ?

ammarb87

What does this mean ?
Does it mean dancing isnt allowed .. ??? or wearing high-heels etc .. btw Tanverr do u believe in the Hijab ? .. whats ur idea of dessing modestly ?

unknownuser

Salaamun alaikum Ammar,

What does this mean ?
Does it mean dancing isnt allowed .. ??? or wearing high-heels etc .. btw Tanverr do u believe in the Hijab ? .. whats ur idea of dessing modestly ?

Hijab as a dress code has nothing to do with Islam or Al-Quran. The word "Hijab" appears in Al-Quran 7 times (746, 3353, 3832, 415, 4251, 1745 & 1917). None of these "Hijab" words are used in Al-Quran in reference to what the traditional muslims call today (Hijab) as a dress code for the muslim woman. However if any woman wants to wear hijab as a matter of personal preference or choice she can do so as long as she does not wear hijab thinking it is ordered by Allah. Hijab as a dress code is not obligatory and is left upto the personal preference of women.

Please visit the following link for a detailed article on women's dress code in Islam

http//free-minds.org/women/scarf.htm

2432 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not show-off their beauty except what is apparent, and let them cast their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not show-off their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.

I guess the above ayat IMO does not allow women to dance in front of anyone except the categories of people underlined above.

Comments from others invited.

Regards,

Tanveer

born_again

Salaam

Who are "the male servants who are without need" in 2432? Women can show their beauty to them? ?

unknownuser

Salaamun alaikum,

IMO it refers only to those male servants who are sexually impotent. Sexual impotence is a recognized medical disorder.

TAJ

Salaams Tanveer,

The Ayah you are discussing here is and not .

Andya_Primanda

Salaam

Who are "the male servants who are without need" in 2432? Women can show their beauty to them? ?

Eunuchs probably. The past sultans used emasculated slaves to guard their harems.

ammarb87

do u think Allah would make life that strict for women?

unknownuser

Salaamun alaikum Ammar,

do u think Allah would make life that strict for women?

That is your opinion. I dont see any strictness anywhere. Bad deeds and evil has been made more pleasurable and easier, good deeds and righteous acts are purposely made more difficult and harder. Otherwise there is no test. If righteousness was easier and more pleasurable, every one would do righteous deeds and no one would do bad deeds or evil acts. Then there would be no test. Think about it. However people who stick to the path of righteousness and have full faith and belief in Allah and the life hereafter, the righteous deeds become easy for them.

429 God wants to make easy for you; and mankind was created weak.
943 If it were a near gain, or an easy journey, they would have followed you; but the distance was too much for them.

926 As for he who gives and is righteous.
927 And trusts in goodness.
928 We will make the easy path for him.

Once you realize the reason why Allah has not allowed certain acts or prohibited them then you will find it easier. All the prohibitions are for our own good and benefit and safety. It is we who do not understand and are rebellious. We are like a child. The parents tell us dont put your hand in fire or you will get burned. But we go ahead and put our hand in fire. Only then we realize why our parents told us not to do it. Same is the case with us and Allah.

Brother Taj,

The Ayah you are discussing here is and not .

I see that you like nit picking on others. Brother I quoted from pm translation which follows the warsh version and the warsh numbering of verses. For details see the following

http//free-minds.org/articles/science/WhichQuran.pdf

Regards,

Tanveer

ammarb87

its not i strict i guess but people have made it strict these days ... especially the older generation !

Nural_Amin

Peace,

LOL You people are playing with FIRE! Do not tell women how to dress, tell them to be righteous and it all comes but never tell them how to dress!

If you are not satisfied with someones dress sense then you should find another partner or you should accept it or kindly explain your dislike (again here you play with fire). Best thing is to leave this, especially when the women are fully aware of their dress sense, if they intentionally dress in provokative ways then they ask for trouble and sexual attention then these are the women that are for the men who don't mind that.

Remember the believer man for the believer woman and the adultress for the adulterer. That is quite extreme jump from dress sense and I personally think that some people are too sensitive about dress codes, if you are then you should be a fashion designer!

Nural