ideas anyone?
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Hi all,
I have found many of the discussions on this site very interesting. I also see that many of the posts are touching on the subjects of ?Islamic state?, or ?Islamic rule?, and the like.
However it seems to still be open questions on how/where and so on.As far as I can see Pakistan is the latest experiment in the direction of creating an ?Islamic state?.
However, even though the initial thought was for Pakistan to become an ?Islamic state? based on the Qur?an, the whole idea was hijacked by the traditional ?Islamic? priesthood in India.
I strongly believe that any community trying to establish a system based on the Qur?an is likely, sooner or later, to be hijacked in a similar manner, by forces from parties greedy for power over mind and/or matter. This is human reality.Education is suggested as a first step, and I totally agree, but we are talking about a total change in mind-set.
It is easy to gather people who are living under terrible conditions to adopt a system of equality. These people are already fairly equal; equally bad off, that is, and will follow anything that can give them freedom of fear, and a daily means of survival.What about those who have what we call a ?high living standard? at present?
How to sell an idea of reduced living standard for these people who are in fact controlling the lives of the majority?
In a system of equality somebody has to give up some of their present benefits.
And what about all those ?middle classes? who have managed to scrape together a ?descent life? and many of whom are trying to secure this and climb ?higher??
Very few would like to lose anything even with a promise of long term benefits for the human race, or a promise of something in a future you can not see or explain.We have some individuals and groups who are doing their bit in various areas like human rights groups, environment protection groups, fair distribution of values and so on. Sometimes groups like these are referred to as fundamentalists, or fanatics. It is very difficult to navigate in issues you are particularly concerned about, in a balanced manner.
However, these groups are dealing with real problems, in day-to-day life. Their work is something in line with ?Robin Hood?. Hated, and often persecuted, by the ?have a lot? and worshipped by the ?have not?.The idea of a system of God to solve all problems is fine and dandy, as a theory, but how to sell it?
I am convinced of one way that is wrong, namely to try to sell it as a ritualistic religion, or a system that is forced on anyone.
How to go out and sell the idea of ?beautiful Islam?, ?peaceful Islam? after all the atrocities we see around us?Usually, when a house is rotten, it is torn down before a new house can be built. Is this what we are facing here? Are our main obstacles the rotten establishments hiding under the name of ?Islam?? Or something called ?God?, or some other name?
Educate, yes, but who/how/what?Maybe we can not avoid being classified into a group in order to make any headway?
In that case, what can all people relate to?Regards
Ali Omar
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Salaamun alaikum Ali Omar,
The idea of a system of God to solve all problems is fine and dandy, as a theory, but how to sell it?
I am convinced of one way that is wrong, namely to try to sell it as a ritualistic religion, or a system that is forced on anyone.
How to go out and sell the idea of beautiful Islam, peaceful Islam after all the atrocities we see aroundThere's no need to 'sell' it. All we have to do, if we have the imaan/conviction, is to establish ad-deen (iqamuddeen). This means establish masjid where justice prevails. Speaking for myself, the conviction isnt strong enough to do that.
Usually, when a house is rotten, it is torn down before a new house can be built. Is this what we are facing here? Are our main obstacles the rotten establishments hiding under the name of Islam? Or something called God, or some other name?
Educate, yes, but who/how/what?In my opinion, its better to start in a fresh space. I would demarcate the Al-Islaam's educational and applicational roles. To rephrase, I would set up a group which studies al-quraan and another group- this one with a strict structure- to implement pre-agreed projects which are in the direction of masjid al-haraam, the state where Allah's restrictions are established. I wouldnt like to call it a 'muslim group' because that space has been polluted.
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What about those who have what we call a ?high living standard? at present?
Why this Envy Ali Omar?
Many have worked their backs sides off to achieve this!
Why look down on people who work hard to make something of their life?How to sell an idea of reduced living standard for these people who are in fact controlling the lives of the majority?
Why do you want to reduce living standard? That is going backwards is it not?
No Ali Omar, you have got all this wrong!
What you need to do is to work to ensure that every individual has the OPPORTUNITY to reach their full potential as a human being and the opportunity to make something of their life.And what about all those ?middle classes? who have managed to scrape together a ?descent life? and many of whom are trying to secure this and climb ?higher??
Again why this Envy of people who have worked hard and as you say scrape together a "descent life"?
Why do you look down on people who work hard to make something with their life?
Regards,
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Dear mquran,
As you point out, it is not easy to call the group you suggest a ?muslim group?, because the space is polluted.
I used the phrase ?rotten?.
Any ideas as to ?what?, then?OK, we start a group dealing with the educational aspects and a group with an applicational role.
Now to the practical aspect, ?who/how/when/where??Regards,
Ali Omar
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Dear LoteTree,
It is not envy; it is seeing reality for what it is.
I do not look down on people for wanting more. And I find it very recommendable that somebody ?work their back sides off? to achieve this, but I am less impressed when somebody ?work others back sides off? to achieve the goal.I do not want to reduce living standard at all, but if 20 individuals have worked equally hard to bake a cake, but, through clever manipulation, one of them take half the cake, it is less to divide amongst the rest.
It is just a question of whether the work to produce real values should be honored or clever manipulation should be honored.I fully agree that everyone should have an equal opportunity to reach their full potential, but I believe it is wrong to reach the ?full potential? through the striving of others. This is the reality in the World today.
I?m part of this myself, as most others with a fairly good ?living standard?. I would like to think that I have achieved this through my own work, but know it is not quite true.
So, maybe the question is, do I really want equality in the whole World? Or do I only want equality for myself, my family and my friends?We have seen one example of people using others, in the tragic event in London lately. The suicide bombers and their victims were used by others. A result of others? manipulation.
Most people get a shock when atrocities like this happens in an unexpected place, but hardly register similar reports in ?places of unrest?.Ask yourself why we have these ?places of unrest?, is it because of a different human race living in those areas? Maybe they do not ?work their back sides off?? Maybe ?the full potential? is different for the kind of human race living in those areas?
Or could it be that some people are using others for their own gains?I get nauseous when I see leaders for mosques in Britain for instance, coming forth claiming their innocence, and distance themselves from the atrocities. They are representatives for some of the systems breeding the ?tools? of destruction.
We all have these breeding grounds right in our own backyards, but still we get surprised when things happen. Most of us are, really, walking around with our heads deeply buried in the sand.Can we change this?
Regards
Ali Omar
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Salaamun alaikum Ali Omar
As you point out, it is not easy to call the group you suggest a muslim group, because the space is polluted.
I used the phrase rotten.
Any ideas as to what, then?Al-Muslimeen (the name Allah gives us), is a movement which aims at the development of human potential. Any name of this nature would be close to the mark. There already exists a 'human potential movement' though.
OK, we start a group dealing with the educational aspects and a group with an applicational role.
Now to the practical aspect, who/how/when/where?To me, the language represents the coding which can program our minds with Allah's concepts. When your group can share that conceptual adventure together, I think you have a good basis for an educational group. However, this is easier said than one. The preparations to get to this stage is difficult.
The applicational aspects are essentially this. Whatever you can get from al-quraan, we need to have them in clear-cut terms. Salaat for example, maybe translated in this domain as 'focus exercises', 'commitments', 'support'. In this domain, there's no discussion, only work, activities which operationalise and actualise
Quranic principles.To me, the close proximity of all members is paramount. We cannot do this with members scattered all over the place.
many thanks for a good thread. peace
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salam Ali Omar
Ali Omar wrote
As far as I can see Pakistan is the latest experiment in the direction of creating an ?Islamic state?.
However, even though the initial thought was for Pakistan to become an ?Islamic state? based on the Qur?an, the whole idea was hijacked by the traditional ?Islamic? priesthood in India.You are absolutely right. Pakistan came into being to establish a true Islamic State based upon Quranic Constitution. Thats why 50 or more mullah opposed the new state of pakistan. In Allama Iqbal words
Mullah ko hae Hind mae Sajdae kee Ijajat
Nadan Samjata hae Islam hae AzaadTranslation
Just because Mullahs can prayer (namaz) ritually in (non islamic state)
Those dumbs think Islam is FreeTo be honest with you I have no idea How can true a true islamic state can be formed in our corrupts systems?
Peace
Kashif -
It is not envy; it is seeing reality for what it is.
I do not look down on people for wanting more. And I find it very recommendable that somebody ?work their back sides off? to achieve this, but I am less impressed when somebody ?work others back sides off? to achieve the goal.Then that is the challenge for you Ali Omar to ensure that people do not get exploited. That is the Real issue. In the 18th Century little kids worked in the coal mines but this is no longer a reality in Britain. They have worked to change this exploitation. Likewise you can too change the exploitation of "sweatshop" workers. All you need is the will to succeed -)
Remember people of India managed to throw out the Coco Cola coroporation from the Indian Soil and the Europeans managed to expel Monsanto Coroporation. But these are little sucesses, a small begining, its a start...I do not want to reduce living standard at all, but if 20 individuals have worked equally hard to bake a cake, but, through clever manipulation, one of them take half the cake, it is less to divide amongst the rest. It is just a question of whether the work to produce real values should be honored or clever manipulation should be honored.
But I can say this too you. If there were twenty people and 19 sat on their lazy asses and only one of them worked hard to make something of their life, should the 19 who sat on their lazy asses, demand the one that worked hard, a share of his cake?
As for manipulation -if individuals have opportunity to make something of their lives they will not be manipulated that easily. If they feel manipulated they can easily go work for someone else or start out on their own.
Incentive to make something of your life should be encouraged but you need to ensure people are not exploited or brain-washed into to following a murderous idealogy of hatred.
I fully agree that everyone should have an equal opportunity to reach their full potential, but I believe it is wrong to reach the ?full potential? through the striving of others. This is the reality in the World today.
Good. Then this is the challenge for you Ali Omar to give everyone an equal opportunity to make something of their life while ensuring that people are not unscrupulousy exploited.
And you can do this through education and self-empowerment of each individual.
I?m part of this myself, as most others with a fairly good ?living standard?. I would like to think that I have achieved this through my own work, but know it is not quite true.
What moral individual like you!!! you exploited people to achieve your high standard of living - how could this happen!!! ??? I am shocked!!!
Just kiddin -)Don't be shamed of making a sucess of your life, Ali Omar. God helps those that help themselves. What you can do is to give those that you have around you an opportunity also to make something of their life too. Making something of your life is not a licence for exploiting others.
So, maybe the question is, do I really want equality in the whole World? Or do I only want equality for myself, my family and my friends?
This is the crux of the matter for you. What is Equality?
It seems to me that Equality to you means Material Equality where Everyone has the same amount of Material Things in their Life and the same amount of Money in the Bank - This is not going to happen! This is communism! It never worked and never will!
The Equality you need to strive for Ali Omar - Is the Equality of opportunity for each individual to make something with their life.
We have seen one example of people using others, in the tragic event in London lately. The suicide bombers and their victims were used by others. A result of others? manipulation.
But how does that relates to living standard? How does that relate to equal opportunity to make something with your life? How is that related to economics? What the London Bombers did is nothing to do with any of these things! They are the persuant of the Idealogy of Hatred!
Most people get a shock when atrocities like this happens in an unexpected place,...
That is what SHOCK means! An unexpected event that numbs your system. London is a very multi-cultural place. Its citizens has freedom and personal liberty and opportunity for each individual to make something with their lives. Britain is a very peaceful and very tolerant society. That is why it is VERY SHOCKING when it's citizens fall prey to murderous idealogy of hatred and blow up their fellow citizens in crowded commuters in a deliberate, callous and barbaric way! Shocking, yes absolutely!
Ask yourself why we have these ?places of unrest?, is it because of a different human race living in those areas?
It is politics chap, simple as that and the politics have been confounded further by those who pursue the Ideology of Hatred.
Maybe they do not ?work their back sides off?? Maybe ?the full potential? is different for the kind of human race living in those areas?
They are working their backsides off chap, in fact their working their whole lives off!! Their work is blowing up 10 to 20 people daily in suicide attacks!
This is the result of pursuing the idealogy of hatred!I get nauseous when I see leaders for mosques in Britain for instance, coming forth claiming their innocence, and distance themselves from the atrocities. They are representatives for some of the systems breeding the ?tools? of destruction.
I totally agree!
We all have these breeding grounds right in our own backyards, but still we get surprised when things happen. Most of us are, really, walking around with our heads deeply buried in the sand.
But the thing I find hard to understand why people who live in a free society, free from oppression, who have so much opportunity to make something with their life, fall prey to a murderous idealogy of hatred?
Can we change this?
Yes and we have to and we have to do it soon!
We have to close down all "madrashas". It is there that many people of Pakistan, Bangladesh and the Muslim population India are indoctrinated into the cult of Islamic Fascism. And we have to ensure Mullahs with goaty or "tooth-brush" beards do not preach Hatred to our younger generations.
But I would go further. I would ensure that all the Muslims of the world have access to "Quran in Translation" and "Hadiths in Translation" and they read what is in these books so that they can decide for themselves the truth of the matter and not rely on Mullahs with bushy beards and long robes, who themselves don't understand a thing about what is actually written in these books!!!
Regards,
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Peace Lote tree
In the example of 20 you assume that the 19 of them was lazy, and thats the reason for the share. But thats justnot what its like out there.
Most of the WORLDS effords, ends up in very few pockets. And this is not because they work their backs off. Is it envy? No not at all, we all have problems, money isnot going to change that. But we have a fundamental problem, when the guys who own the banks, owns the weapon manufacturers and contractors aswell. Can you see the problem?We have a seriious problem because of a God given right to make money, and as many as possible. Because this right truimphs out peoples rights. Polution of water, air, toxic garbage sold as food, kids who drink toxic driks like coca cola. We accept A FEW peoples right to make money OVER The peoples health.
The very foundation and current powerstructure of our society is rotten to the core, and thats the problem. All this other stuff is merely symptoms of the real decease.
London is a very multi-cultural place. Its citizens has freedom and personal liberty and opportunity for each individual to make something with their lives.
If they accept a control that does not in anyway provide them real security. cameras not working again, when they where needed ie. New ID card, etc.
Britain is a very peaceful and very tolerant society.
Unless you live in Afghanistan and Iraq. then it isnt.
That is why it is VERY SHOCKING when it's citizens fall prey to murderous idealogy of hatred and blow up their fellow citizens in crowded commuters in a deliberate, callous and barbaric way! Shocking, yes absolutely!
Nomatter who did it. how can it be a shock? YOU ARE AT WAR!!! you have declared war, how can it be a shock, that someone would start to retaliate, if that is what it is.
They are working their backsides off chap, in fact their working their whole lives off!! Their work is blowing up 10 to 20 people daily in suicide attacks!
I didnt read that. or i hope i didnt.
But the thing I find hard to understand why people who live in a free society, free from oppression, who have so much opportunity to make something with their life, fall prey to a murderous idealogy of hatred?
Now lets imagine you live a life somewhere and mind you own biz. Then you country is flung out into complete financial chaos because of western manipulation, then you cant sell you the stuff you produce, because western finances lobby make it ILLEGAL for you to sell it to them, and it just goes on, and eventually you have to leave. So you end up in the country that is if anything heart in this financial monster...what did you expect? that they baked a cake and said thank you? geeez...
Lote tree, are you so fascinated by the "liberties" (do not confuse this with FREEDOM) of a completely corrupt to the core system, that you are blind to the obvious? You cant build a new house on a rotten fundament, you can keep adding stuff, and fix a little here and a little there all the time, all while the foundation keeps sinking into the mud , taken it all with it.
I beg you, before you reply brother. Look into maritime admiralty law, try to understand what you read. Because that, is the very reason that we have no chance against the system what so ever, unless we tear it down.
Ever noticed that your name is IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS when the system, or money wants to get hold of you. Do you know why?Do you think that money is a fair exchange of value. how can it be so when its private, and its a private organisation that has the right to print them, thus control their flow? thats not money. thats not what money is. We have been had, big time! Call that liverty and freedom all you want, i call it a scam. because that is what it is. And its creating unstability all over the world.
So im all on the same page brother Ali Omar, and i think we have figured many of the same things. This is not about envy, this is about rebooting the system, and get the "bugs" weeded out, so the rest of us have the change of comming to our full potential, in a system not set up to exploit us.
K.R
Noah -
In the example of 20 you assume that the 19 of them was lazy, and thats the reason for the share. But thats just not what its like out there.
OK so the 19 are not lazy - so what's stopping them making something with their life?
If it's lack of opportunity then that's what I am getting at. Give each individual the opportunity!Most of the WORLDS effords, ends up in very few pockets. And this is not because they work their backs off. Is it envy?
So why don't you work hard Noah and change all that?
Why not aim to be Bill Gates of this world give your wealth away to the poor?...we all have problems, money is not going to change that. But we have a fundamental problem, when the guys who own the banks, owns the weapon manufacturers and contractors aswell. Can you see the problem?
Which country do you live in Noah?
And I will give you advise on how to solve your problem chap.
And it is nothing to do with owning banks and weapons manufacturing factories!
But I can't create an Utopic World for you Noah to live in.We have a seriious problem because of a God given right to make money, and as many as possible.
You said money will not solve your problem. So why complain about it?
If the people work hard for the money and they don't harm others in doing it then is that wrong? If I use my talent to open a business and I am successful at and I make a lot of money is that wrong?Because this right truimphs out peoples rights. Polution of water, air, toxic garbage sold as food, kids who drink toxic driks like coca cola. We accept A FEW peoples right to make money OVER The peoples health.
If you want to prevent all this thing Noah, then work hard! Be a politician, be a scientist, be anything you want - but do something yourself, don't wait for others to do things for you! Don't be lazy but take up the challenge. Don't see it as a problem but a challenge and an opportunity to do somehting with your life. If you are concerned about toxic garbage or air pollution be a brilliant scientist and tell the world about it! Be a politician and change the policies. But don't blame others. Blame game is an adolescent abdication of responsibility!
The very foundation and current powerstructure of our society is rotten to the core, and thats the problem. All this other stuff is merely symptoms of the real decease.
The work hard to lay a new foundation!
If they accept a control that does not in anyway provide them security. cameras not working again, when they where needed ie.
? Not understand Mr. Gandhi?
Nomatter who did it. how can it be a shock? YOU ARE AT WAR!!! you have declared war, how can it be a shock, that someone would start to retaliate, if that is what it is.
Even at war chap you don't deliberately blow up crowded commuter trains full of innocent people!
But it is shocking because it was carried out by it's own people! Do you not understand this?But the thing I find hard to understand why people who live in a free society, free from oppression, who have so much opportunity to make something with their life, fall prey to a murderous idealogy of hatred?
Now lets imagine you live a life somewhere and mind you own biz. Then you country is flung out into complete financial chaos...
I don't have to imagine. Japan and Germany were comprehensively defeated in war. Their economy ruined and devasted. But they took their destiney into their own hands to make their countries most successful in the world! India went through 300 hundred years of British rule. But they are becoming fastest growing IT hub in the world.
because of western manipulation, then you cant sell you the stuff you produce, because western finances lobby make it ILLEGAL for you to sell it to them, and it just goes on, and eventually you have to leave. So you end up in the country that is if anything heart in this financial monster...what did you expect? that they baked a cake and said thank you? geeez...
Yes, blame it on others. It is either Western manipulation or the Mossad agents, or tyrannical ruler supported by the west, or years of colonialism. It is always the other peoples fault. Come Noah, I am sick and tired of this blame game! India stopped this blame game a while ago and is now on the road to success.
Lote tree, are you so fascinated by the "liberties (do not confuse this with FREEDOM) because of the liberties that a completely corrupt to the core system, that you are blind to the obvious?
I am not blind chap. It is you who are in denial about your own failures, about the failures of all Muslim societies. You can't see how democracy, liberty and personal freedom serves humanity best.
The reason you can't see this is that you have this "Imaginary" "Quranic-Utopia" in your head and you are dissappointed that this Utopia has not happened in the past 1400 years. And you blame others for your dissappointment, you blame others for your failure to have that Quranic "Promised-Land" of your dreams.
The society I live is not perfect. It has it's flaws but hey this is better than anything else in this world.
Your problem Noah is that you want a World Society, a World government. This will happen chap but only slowly. Be patient, then we can all be free. But you have to change your mind-set of blaming others.
You cant build a new house on a rotten fundament, you can keep adding stuff, and fix a little here and a little there all the time, all while the foundation keeps sinking into the mud , taken it all with it.
It is your society you are talking about not mine. I choose to live in my society out of choice which gives me freedom and personal liberty to make something with my life. Your society does not.
Is that my fault as an individual?Is that my responsibility as an individual that you don't have freedom in your country?
or is it yours?Should I be concerned that you don't have freedom and responsiblity in your country?
Of course I do. I feel terrible for people getting hanged for blasphemy in Pakistan.Is that our fault as a country that you don't have freedom and personal liberty in your country? If you say yes, then Britain was right to make war to liberate you then? If no, then why complain that we don't care about you?
I beg you, before you reply brother. Look into maritime admiralty law, try and understand what you read. Because that, is the very reason that we have no chance against the system what so ever, unless we tear it down.
And I beg you Noah to let go of the past. Just like India is letting go if it's colonial past. Past is the forbidden country that you can't travel to. Let go of this blame game!
If you don't have the opportunity to make something with your life then work hard to make it happen!
Do you think that money is a fair exchange of value. how can itb e when its private, and its a private organisation that has the right to print them, thus control their flow? thats not money. thats not what money is. We have been had, big time!
Fair Exchange? Oh Noah! we can't go back to the Barter-System of trading like we did in our ancient past. The world has moved on. Society has moved on. We can't live by exchaning one Goat for 3 chickens! or 5 birds feathers for a hen! cEvolve chap! Don't be a caveman!
So im all on the same page brother Ali Omar, and i think we have figured many of the same things.
You and Ali Omar are sad Idealist -)
JOKE
An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup.
And I have to include this time honoured joke about an Idealist
A young woman brings her fiancee' home to meet her parents. After dinner, her mother tells her father to find out about the young man, so the father invites the fiancee' to his study for a drink.
"So what are your plans?" the father asks the young man. "I am a Quran scholar," he replies. "A Quran scholar. Hmmm," the father says. "Admirable, but what will you do to provide a nice house for my daughter to live in, as she's accustomed to?"
"I will study," the young man replies, "and God will provide for us."
"And how will you buy her a beautiful engagement ring, such as she deserves?" asks the father.
"I will concentrate on my studies," the young man replies, "God will provide for us."
"And children?" asks the father. "How will you support children?"
"Don't worry, sir, God will provide," replies the fiancee'.
The conversation proceeds like this, and each time the father questions, the young idealist insists that God will provide.
Later, the mother asks, "How did it go, Honey?"
The father answers, "The bad news is, he has no job and no plans. However, the good news is he thinks I'm God."
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OK so the 19 are not lazy - so what's stopping them making something with their life?
If it's lack of opportunity then that's what I am getting at. Give each individual the opportunity!I fully agree to this, give each individual the opportunity.
So why don't you work hard Noah and change all that?
Why not aim to be Bill Gates of this world give your wealth away to the poor?Oh so you think Bill Gates got where he is because of hard work. Look into his background. I have no doubt that he spend many hours, while cheating stealing, getting fixed deals and them hold the world in an iron grip. But if thats what you mean, im not interrested. I do however respect his decision to spend a lot of it on charity.
Which country do you live in Noah?
Denmark
And I will give you advise on how to solve your problem chap.
And it is nothing to do with owning banks and weapons manufacturing factories!
But I can't create an Utopic World for you Noah to live in.I dont expect a utopia, that is you putting words in my mouth. But if you fail to see the seriousness of that cabal, and its cost globally, i dont think we need to have this conversation at all.
You said money will not solve your problem. So why complain about it?
Because its a foundation of any society. this is why it is so important that it is fair money, so the system does not become exploitive.
If the people work hard for the money and they don't harm others in doing it then is that wrong?If I use my talent to open a business and I am successful at and I make a lot of money is that wrong?
not at all, efford should carry a reward
If you want to prevent all this thing Noah, then work hard! Be a politician, be a scientist, be anything you want
Not under maritime admiralty law, that is for sure.
but do something yourself, don't wait for others to do things for you! Don't be lazy but take up the challenge. Don't see it as a problem but a challenge and an opportunity to do somehting with your life. If you are concerned about toxic garbage or air pollution be a brilliant scientist and tell the world about it! Be a politician and change the policies. But don't blame others. Blame game is an adolescent abdication of responsibility!
I blame others when there are someone to blame.
The work hard to lay a new foundation!
That would require that people start reading books instead of watching jeopardy. All i can do in this regard is what im doing. Using a lot of time making people aware that they are infact maritime products, and not human beings, and mentally unstable according to the judicial system.
? Not understand Mr. Gandhi?
London bomb, london most cameras pr square mile in the world. One lousy image!
Even at war chap you don't deliberately blow up crowded commuter trains full of innocent people!
Maybe not in your dream world. But out here, people do. Be it a suicide bomber,or a misile. same result, same victims, same shit.
But it is shocking because it was carried out by it's own people! Do you not understand this?
No not really. If you dont want people to blow up your stuff, dont blow up other peoples stuff. Who cares where they came from, what difference does it make, but to make it clear that it is the world who has problems?. Not this or that place
I don't have to imagine. Japan and Germany were comprehensively defeated in war. Their economy ruined and devasted.
Look at argentina and what happened.
But they took their destiney into their own hands to make their countries most successful in the world!
And so did argentina, only, the argentinas understood what went wrong. and started worker factorys, run by workers, for workers. And it turned out a succes. Suddenly the communitys starter blossoming around the factorys, a lot of monet spend from the factory to the local community, because now there werent any high and mighty stock marked investers running off with 80% of their work, playing God with their lives. It was brilliant, they where the proof that Ali Omar and my dream world exists and is possible. even without equal pay, not everybody did that. its all up to the individual democratic election amongst the workers at the individual factorys...only. they forgot one thing. The real powers that be in this world (international banks, and special interrests). and now look at it. in this case blame is well due!
India went through 300 hundred years of British rule. But they are becoming fastest growing IT hub in the world.
And on the surface it sounds great. All made possible through unfair payment, fewer worker rights, software theft and all the other wonderfull things you leave out in the dog eat dog system that we currently have.
Yes, blame it on others. It is either Western manipulation or the Mossad agents, or tyrannical ruler supported by the west, or years of colonialism. It is always the other peoples fault. Come Noah, I am sick and tired of this blame game! India stopped this blame game a while ago and is now on the road to success.
Yes they realised that they had to play by those rules that no ordinary people get to decide on, thus undermining the very idea of a democracy anywhjere, as there are laws that works all over th world, that no government have the power to change. how about that?
I am not blind chap. It is you who are in denial about your own failures, about the failures of all Muslim societies.
No im not? where did you get this strawman from?
You can't see how democracy, liberty and personal freedom serves humanity best.
Yes i absolutely can, now can you please point out where i might find it? Id really like to move there.
The reason you can't see this is that you have this "Imaginary" "Quranic-Utopia" in your head and you are dissappointed that this Utopia has not happened in the past 1400 years. And you blame others for your dissappointment, you blame others for your failure to have that Quranic "Promised-Land" of your dreams.
Nope im just being realistic about the REAL status quo.
The society I live is not perfect. It has it's flaws but hey this is better than anything else in this world.
Ofcourse, if all you have is chaos. terrible is going to be pretty good. I just think its good enough, and to make changes that would make a differnce, we need to look this all over again.
Your problem Noah is that you want a World Society, a World government.
I most certainly will not. We are created as different people for a reason.
Thats one of the things i object the most against. this socalled new world order that a proveable criminally insane group of elites have promoted.This will happen chap but only slowly. Be patient, then we can all be free. But you have to change your mind-set of blaming others.
Im not blaming others, im blaming you, im blaming anyone who doesnt take a look at the law refference works of their country, especially regarding maritime admiralty law, and try and figure out why they are reffered to as a maritime product, and why it under human being says "-see monster".
It is your society you are talking about not mine. I choose to live in my society out of choice which gives me freedom and personal liberty to make something with my life. Your society does not.
Is that my fault as an individual?My society offers the excact same liberty. But what good is it to make your own happyn ess, when the system at its very core is so falwed that it kills. litterally. atleast 25.000 a day from hunger alone. All while your and my country are burning thousands of tons of wheat a year, to keep prices up. thats what im talking about. And thats but one little thing by witch a completely unfair balance is kept in the world. G8...remove povery. so they gave africa 5 cent a day pr citizen...whoooohoooo...
Is that my responsibility as an individual that you don't have freedom in your country?
or is it yours?I have basic citizens liberty, not freedom, in my country as do you.
Should I be concerned that you don't have freedom and responsiblity in your country?
Of course I do. I feel terrible for people getting hanged for blasphemy in Pakistan.Yeah well, the problem is that concern doesnt do so much good. And the western intelligence soup admittedly have had their dirty fingers inside regions where there are chaos to support the dictators. So just saying, well its your country, its your fight, is not really that easy when you have the global powers of money breathing down your neck mate.
Is that our fault as a country that you don't have freedom and personal liberty in your country?
Not in my country no. But it is all around the world, by finances. Modern facism that you seem to adore so much and confuse with freedom, works through coorporatism.
If you say yes, then Britain was right to make war to liberate you then? If no, then why complain that we don't care about you?
You as well as we, care about money, thats what we care about. Or the powers that be in our countrys. the REAL powers, not those mindless puppets like blair and Fogh here in denmark. Im well aware of who is really in charge here. its Maersk.
And I beg you Noah to let go of the past.
And im beggin you too look into it, so we dont have nazi germany happening on us again on a global scale.
Just like India is letting go if it's colonial past. Past is the forbidden country that you can't travel to. Let go of this blame game!
Youre the one that makes me a blamer. But fact is, i blame me, i blame you i blame us all for having been so easy. We are witness to the rise of global facism, and if you think facism is all about black uniforms. Think again, and go read!
If you don't have the opportunity to make something with your life then work hard to make it happen!
No i will rather spend my time helping people who get caught up in this luciferian judicial system. helping people to understand that there is a good reason that the world keeps getting fucked up, and that reason is that we havent done our homework. So we have been had, in every aspect of our very exsitance, by people who are far smarter than we are.
Fair Exchange? Oh Noah! we can't go back to the Barter-System of trading like we did in our ancient past. The world has moved on. Society has moved on. We can't live by exchaning one Goat for 3 chickens! or 5 birds feathers for a hen! cEvolve chap! Don't be a caveman!
Quit the rethoric. I never said anything about bartering. Really, what do you know about the way the financial system works, and who it benefits? Im not trying to be snide, but i have a lot of material that might interrest you depending on how much you know.
You and Ali Omar are sad Idealist -)
not sad.
Peace
TnE -
Oh so you think Bill Gates got where he is because of hard work. Look into his background. I have no doubt that he spend many hours, while cheating stealing, getting fixed deals and them hold the world in an iron grip. But if thats what you mean, im not interrested. I do however respect his decision to spend a lot of it on charity.
Well, if you don't like Bill Gates, that is ok. There are other inspirational people around the world who have made something with their talents. In UK there is Mr. Noon, I think, he is a nice "Muslim".
Denmark
Then you have the Freedom to leave this Country and live in your favourite Quranic Utopic countries like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.
If you are short of money flying out there let me know and I will mail you the ticket -)
But if you fail to see the seriousness of that cabal, and its cost globally, i dont think we need to have this conversation at all.
This is paranoia, fed by your failure of your Idealism. Does not Denmark give you the opportunity to make something with your life? If not then deal with this constructively.
Because its a foundation of any society. this is why it is so important that it is fair money, so the system does not become exploitive.
Then this is your problem and this is your issue. But work hard to remove this exploitation! But I tell you this, if a society provides you with opportunity to make something with your life then it is hard to be exploited by others because you can always get another job or start out on your own.
If you want to prevent all this thing Noah, then work hard! Be a politician, be a scientist, be anything you want
Not under maritime admiralty law, that is for sure.
Whatever but for God's sake work hard for the things you want!
I blame others when there are someone to blame.
When you abdicate your own responsibility then it is easy to blame others!
...making people aware that they are infact maritime products, and not human beings, and mentally unstable according to the judicial system.
Hey are you on magic mushrooms again? mentally unstable under judicial system? What is this about?
? Not understand Mr. Gandhi?
London bomb, london most cameras pr square mile in the world. One lousy image!
Is this a joke?
Even at war chap you don't deliberately blow up crowded commuter trains full of innocent people!
Maybe not in your dream world. But out here, people do. Be it a suicide bomber,or a misile. same result, same victims, same shit.
No. Noah you go and think about this. Deliberately blowing up crowded commuter trains containing innoncent people IS NOT same as dropping bombs on enemy position in times of war! If you think it is then you have not overcome your Traditional Islamic thinking!
But it is shocking because it was carried out by it's own people! Do you not understand this?
No not really.
Obiviously you don't value your people much do you? Just like majority of Muslim who have such anti-human ethos in their society they live and so do you! You obviously have no connection with the people in your society. I suggest that you leave and be with people that you can connect with. I am sure Pakistan and Saudi Arabia will be welcoming you with open arms and give you all the opportunity that you are missing in your life in Denmark.
But they took their destiney into their own hands to make their countries most successful in the world!
India went through 300 hundred years of British rule. But they are becoming fastest growing IT hub in the world.
And on the surface it sounds great. All made possible through unfair payment, fewer worker rights, software theft and all the other wonderfull things you leave out in the dog eat dog system that we currently have.
Oh Noah! You have to start somewhere and India has! As they develop so will their society will improve because they are working hard to improve it. Society improves slowly. Compared to Pakistan, India is light years ahead. While Pakistan hangs people who insult the Quran India is becoming important IT hub in the world.
Yes, blame it on others. It is either Western manipulation or the Mossad agents, or tyrannical ruler supported by the west, or years of colonialism. It is always the other peoples fault. Come Noah, I am sick and tired of this blame game! India stopped this blame game a while ago and is now on the road to success.
Yes they realised that they had to play by those rules that no ordinary people get to decide on, thus undermining the very idea of a democracy anywhjere, as there are laws that works all over th world, that no government have the power to change. how about that?
India is still great Democracy and is developing and becoming a sucess. Pakistan a dictatorship administering public lashings for insulting the Prophet! Decide for youself who is on the road to improvement?
I am not blind chap. It is you who are in denial about your own failures, about the failures of all Muslim societies.
No im not? where did you get this strawman from?
The strawman is you Noah with hollow thinking!
You can't see how democracy, liberty and personal freedom serves humanity best.
Yes i absolutely can, now can you please point out where i might find it? Id really like to move there.
You have to find within yourself first. Then you can move there!
I most certainly will not. We are created as different people for a reason.
We are different people? Where did you get that from? Human beings are of one race with differences in culture!
This will happen chap but only slowly. Be patient, then we can all be free. But you have to change your mind-set of blaming others.
Im not blaming others, im blaming you, im blaming anyone who doesnt take a look at the law refference works of their country,
Well keep on blaming others chap! That is the only thing you can do. It is the only thing you are good at like the all other people in all the Muslim societies. Blaming others seems to be a Muslim pre-occupation.
If you can't change yourself then don't expect others to do it for you.My society offers the excact same liberty. But what good is it to make your own happyn ess, when the system at its very core is so falwed that it kills.
I am sorry, this I don't understand with you and Ali Omar. If people make a success of their society by working hard in it, why should they not be proud of it? Why should not benefit from this success? If you don't like the Ideals by which the society you live in lives by then leave.
....atleast 25.000 a day from hunger alone. All while your and my country are burning thousands of tons of wheat a year, to keep prices up. thats what im talking about.
Oh yeah? What about Saudis spending Trillions of Dollars on American Military Hardware and building lavish palaces for themselves and funding Talibanic regimes around the world? What about Saddam who spent billions of dollars buying Russian Arms during the Iran-Iraq war causing deaths of millions of people and again building lavish palaces from himself!
What about poor Pakistan spending billions of dollars making nukes while people starve! and what about Gaddafi?Yeah well, the problem is that concern doesnt do so much good. And the western intelligence soup admittedly have had their dirty fingers inside regions where there are chaos to support the dictators.
When this blame game will end for you Noah! The Shah was imposed against the will of people! But Iranian deposed him. So you can get rid of these dictators. You just need the will to believe in Freedom!
Not in my country no. But it is all around the world, by finances. Modern facism that you seem to adore so much and confuse with freedom, works through coorporatism.
Corporation are new reality Chap. Just like Industrial Revolution was a new reality for the people in Britain in the 18th Century. You either learn to deal with this reality or you become like the luddites of the 18th century going around smashing power looms!
You as well as we, care about money, thats what we care about. Or the powers that be in our countrys. the REAL powers, not those mindless puppets like blair and Fogh here in denmark. Im well aware of who is really in charge here. its Maersk.
And what do you care about Noah? Apart from wanting a Quranic Utopia?
And im beggin you too look into it, so we dont have nazi germany happening on us again on a global scale.
No Noah. The thing you need to worry about is Islamic Fascism. The people who pursue an murderous idealogy of hatred.
Youre the one that makes me a blamer. But fact is, i blame me, i blame you i blame us all for having been so easy. We are witness to the rise of global facism, and if you think facism is all about black uniforms. Think again, and go read!
I advise Noah, lay off the magic mushrooms chap. This is paranoia.
If you don't have the opportunity to make something with your life then work hard to make it happen!
No i will rather spend my time helping people who get caught up in this luciferian judicial system.
Well dont be envious or look down on people who make something with their life.
Quit the rethoric. I never said anything about bartering. Really, what do you know about the way the financial system works, and who it benefits? Im not trying to be snide, but i have a lot of material that might interrest you depending on how much you know.
Material like the Illumnati and Bilderberg Group?
Oh Noah why don't you do something with your life!If you don't have a girl friend then get one and enjoy being love with someone. Those nice blond Danish girl will put you straight chap -)
Regards,
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Greetings,
Is that our fault as a country that you don't have freedom and personal liberty in your country? If you say yes, then Britain was right to make war to liberate you then? If no, then why complain that we don't care about you?
So it turns out that you are British. Perhaps, you should make war again to liberate Denmark.
Anwar Azim
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Dear LoteTree,
Then that is the challenge for you Ali Omar to ensure that people do not get exploited. That is the Real issue.
Agreed! And for yourself, and for everybody else.
All you need is the will to succeed.
And a solid blindfold.
But I can say this too you. If there were twenty people and 19 sat on their lazy asses and only one of them worked hard to make something of their life, should the 19 who sat on their lazy asses, demand the one that worked hard, a share of his cake?
Don?t you see you are talking about exactly the same thing? Again, is it the work to produce real values that should be honored or clever manipulation? Does the number of manipulators change the basic idea of honoring creation of real values?
If they feel manipulated they can easily go work for someone else or start out on their own.
Yes, that would be the ideal. But it is seems unreachable for many. When you have a choice of surviving, even though conditions are bad, and a choice of total uncertainty, a human will choose survival, until the conditions are so bad that uncertainty becomes less of an issue.
This is a balance that manipulators have specialized in. It is a part of the modern world of business.
See the first quote again.This is the crux of the matter for you. What is Equality?
It seems to me that Equality to you means Material Equality where Everyone has the same amount of Material Things in their Life and the same amount of Money in the Bank - This is not going to happen! This is communism! It never worked and never will!
The Equality you need to strive for Ali Omar - Is the Equality of opportunity for each individual to make something with their life.
Yes, what is equality?
Are you ever giving a second thought to the origin of the tea you are sipping, coffee, chocolate and so on? Do you really care what the origin of the rubber in your tires came from, the teak wood in your furniture, your clothes and other textiles etc. etc.?
Do you think there are no child laborers involved in any of these things? Do you think you are giving them an equal ?opportunity? when buying their products? Who do you think are controlling the prices for their labor? Their creation of real values? Could it be the 19 lazy ones?
Isn?t it soon time to wake up?That is what SHOCK means! An unexpected event that numbs your system. London is a very multi-cultural place. Its citizens has freedom and personal liberty and opportunity for each individual to make something with their lives. Britain is a very peaceful and very tolerant society. That is why it is VERY SHOCKING when it's citizens fall prey to murderous idealogy of hatred and blow up their fellow citizens in crowded commuters in a deliberate, callous and barbaric way! Shocking, yes absolutely!
The amount of shock varies with the distance you can put between yourself and the atrocities. People are doing horrendous things to each other on a daily basis. But maybe not in your own back yard, all the time.
Equal opportunity? Is something missing here? Are there MANIPULATORS somewhere in this picture?
Are we actually circling around the same issue of those who ?work their back sides off? vs, the manipulating parasites?Do you see only half of the picture maybe, whereas the other half is blurred? The ideology of hatred didn?t fall from the sky and hit somebody in the head. (or maybe it did?) lol
Do not blame politics, please. Politics are just tools.We have to close down all "madrashas". It is there that many people of Pakistan, Bangladesh and the Muslim population India are indoctrinated into the cult of Islamic Fascism. And we have to ensure Mullahs with goaty or "tooth-brush" beards do not preach Hatred to our younger generations.
But I would go further. I would ensure that all the Muslims of the world have access to "Quran in Translation" and "Hadiths in Translation" and they read what is in these books so that they can decide for themselves the truth of the matter and not rely on Mullahs with bushy beards and long robes, who themselves don't understand a thing about what is actually written in these books!!!
Yes, minimizing the breeding grounds would definitely minimize the population of animals. Problem is, the core of the priesthood (the rats)would go underground and would probably be fiercer than ever.
Maybe a tighter control with the activities could be a better way to go. Like you said get the whole matter out in the open through proper translations etc., and reduce the power of the priesthood to, at least, the level of the Christian Church?
A poisonous snake is not much of a danger without its fangs.Regards
Ali Omar
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Dear LoteTree,
LoteTree
Even at war chap you don't deliberately blow up crowded commuter trains full of innocent people!
Noah wrote
Maybe not in your dream world. But out here, people do. Be it a suicide bomber,or a misile. same result, same victims, same shit.
LoteTree
No. Noah you go and think about this. Deliberately blowing up crowded commuter trains containing innoncent people IS NOT same as dropping bombs on enemy position in times of war! If you think it is then you have not overcome your Traditional Islamic thinking!
Even though you do not like to talk about the past, I will take my chances.
USA is a country with mainly Christian population, a fairly high literacy rate, and a strong democratic tradition.
In WW2 this democratic nation picked out, amongst others, a strictly military target named Hiroshima. A bomb dropped on the location effectively took out this enemy stronghold.
This is, as you said, totally different from blowing up crowded commuter trains containing innocent people. (irony)Or, maybe the country of USA used their traditional Islamic thinking?
This was just one of many incidents where a democratic country used their ?traditional Islamic thinking?. There are many more incidents throughout history, but that is in the past.
But hey, now the atrocities of the bombs in London are also in the past, shall we likewise just forget it and move on?
Or are some incidents of the past to be remembered while others are best forgotten?
Is this how LoteTree?s mind works, blindfolds on, blindfolds off?
It does explain a lot.Noah also mentioned something about the fact that ?economy rules?. This is in line with a saying claimed to originate from the old fellow Rotshild, and goes something like this ?I do not care who governs the country as long as I control the economy?.
Maybe the old fellow new something that some others have missed?Regards
Ali Omar
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Peace Ali,
Is this how LoteTree?s mind works, blindfolds on, blindfolds off?
It does explain a lot.Perhaps his expalantion is given by his mind being contaminated with jestin, jokin and jeezin. The three J's of jargon. lol
-
Lote tree here is what you dont understand. Maritime admiralty law apply, AND OVERRIDES local civil laws. What is m.a.l ? Its the law of money, thelaw of banks. So we have the law of bank, or the law of the high sea as it is appropriately called, in fact governing us. It doesnt matter if youre are in UK or saudi arabia, this law is universally applied.
No i havent taken mushrooms, no need to be snide just because you dont understand the basic foundation of what governs your life brother. If you had done your homework instead of blabbering away, you would know what im talking about (go to any good law refference library). That you in m.a.law, in fact are a retard and a monster BY DEFINITION OF THE LAW ITSELF!!!
Maritime does not protect you, it protects the state, government and banks FROM you. there is a differene. This is why the civil law systems seems so skewed. because here are the facts. You can go out and hit someone over the head, take his money and run off, and youre out in a year or 2. But if you misplace a dot on your taxbills, they are going to come down on you like ugly on an ape. Why? Because we can fuck eachjother over ALL we want. But dont mess with the mobs money. If you mess with the mobs money, they are going to put you away. And they will chase you to the end of the world, to statuate an example of you in public. They practice this daily. The same when people are thrown out of their own homes because life handed them a lemon. Do the banks care. No you just pay your money and dont ask questions, and we can all get along.
The laws have been designed to protect the system, in a very clever loop (another thing people who read can verify for themself) so becomming a politician is simply no good. Its like, you might be the finest racer in the world, but if the car you try to win the race in have 2 wheels an at times working engine and backward turned gears. You just arent going nowhere. and need to step OUT of the vehicle, fix whatneeds fixed, and try to operate it again. You cant do it from within the broke car.
I am amazed at your lack of compassion. You just worry about your own ass, and then the rest of the world can go fuck themself, right? its their own problem, nomatter if the manipulation that keeps people in agony is because of you! your neighbour, and your country.
If you for one minute belive that the current democratic model are what it poses to be, you are an idiot, and havent done your homework! It is roman facism, nothing else. never where anything else. And it is incredible that we arent any smarter and allow the wrong people to govern us like that. Not out in the open, but as hidden powers of finances worldwide.
Oh you belive bilderberg to be a myth? Do your homework and stop talking for a minute brother.
Peace
Noah -
So it turns out that you are British. Perhaps, you should make war again to liberate Denmark.
No senore, que tal?
Denmark is already liberated!
It was done in the second war II -)
But Noah needs to liberate himself within himself.Regards,
-
All you need is the will to succeed.
And a solid blindfold.
Thats a very cynical view for an Idealist? -)
But I can say this too you. If there were twenty people and 19 sat on their lazy asses and only one of them worked hard to make something of their life, should the 19 who sat on their lazy asses, demand the one that worked hard, a share of his cake?
Don?t you see you are talking about exactly the same thing? Again, is it the work to produce real values that should be honored or clever manipulation? Does the number of manipulators change the basic idea of honoring creation of real values?
No. I don't think you understood what I was trying to get at. What I was saying that if in a society everyone has a opportunity make something of their life and some choose not do it then is it ok those that haven't be envious and complain about those that have made something of their life.
What you are talking about is employee exploitation. And I say to you is that exploitation is overcome by making sure that there are opportunity for each individual to make something with their life. If they feel they have been exploited then they can get another job or start out on their own.
But it is seems unreachable for many. When you have a choice of surviving, even though conditions are bad, and a choice of total uncertainty, a human will choose survival, until the conditions are so bad that uncertainty becomes less of an issue.
But tell me Ali Omar if people in a given society choose to make success of their society by working hard to make it so. Is it fault of this society that others are not making a success of their society?
This is a balance that manipulators have specialized in. It is a part of the modern world of business.
If you see modern business practice is manipulation Ali Omar, then why not use your talent to start out on your own and show us how your business is free from manipulations?
Yes, what is equality?
Are you ever giving a second thought to the origin of the tea you are sipping, coffee, chocolate and so on?Hey I hate all these things especially chocolate -)
Do you really care what the origin of the rubber in your tires came from, the teak wood in your furniture, your clothes and other textiles etc. etc.?
So you want everyone to be Eco-Conscious yes?
Thats easily done. And people in the European nations are indeed Eco-conscious -)Do you think there are no child laborers involved in any of these things? Do you think you are giving them an equal ?opportunity? when buying their products?
Thats what I don't understand Ali Omar! Your arguments swing between how to construct good society and then moves to how to govern the world. So which is it? If you want to govern the world then thats fine and we can talk about it!
Who do you think are controlling the prices for their labor? Their creation of real values? Could it be the 19 lazy ones? Isn?t it soon time to wake up?
It is simple Supply and Demand chap! Simple principles of economics! Communism tried to control this but was a utter failure. And you are trying to do this with Quranic Utopia.
Wake chap and realise this then you can do something constructive.So do you want all the IT companies to pull out from India because Indian IT technicians are not paid the same as the western IT Technicians? Is this the Equality you want? Everyone is paid the same? This is communism chap. It will never happen.
Did you know that 80% European trade is between European countries themselves? It is possible to live without Teak or cotton. Most of the product in Europe is synthetic anyway!
Europe is constructed almost entirely out of plastic chap!The amount of shock varies with the distance you can put between yourself and the atrocities. People are doing horrendous things to each other on a daily basis. But maybe not in your own back yard, all the time.
But again you did not get my point! London is a multi-cultural and tolerant society where it s citizen has freedom and personal liberty. This is not Iraq chap. This is not some anti-human society. It members share the values of freedom and liberty. And when its citizen turn on itself is very shocking chap!
Do you see only half of the picture maybe, whereas the other half is blurred? The ideology of hatred didn?t fall from the sky and hit somebody in the head. (or maybe it did?)
Do not blame politics, please. Politics are just tools.Where did Idealogy of Hatred come from then if not from misreading of Holy Books? So in a way it did fall from the Heavens.
Even though you do not like to talk about the past, I will take my chances.
USA is a country with mainly Christian population, a fairly high literacy rate, and a strong democratic tradition.
In WW2 this democratic nation picked out, amongst others, a strictly military target named Hiroshima. A bomb dropped on the location effectively took out this enemy stronghold.
This is, as you said, totally different from blowing up crowded commuter trains containing innocent people. (irony)Oh Omar. Japan and the world has come to terms with this tragedy. So why bring it up?
That is that past. Is that only example you can give Ali Omar?But hey, now the atrocities of the bombs in London are also in the past, shall we likewise just forget it and move on?
For God's sake Omar, let us first come to terms with our tragedy!
Have some compassion man! Give us some time to grieve.Or are some incidents of the past to be remembered while others are best forgotten?
Is this how LoteTree?s mind works, blindfolds on, blindfolds off?
It does explain a lot.By all means remember the past Ali Omar but don't use past an excuse for failure of all the Muslim society. It is easy to blame others. Japan could have go on blaming America for dropping atomic bombs but they did not. They come to terms with their tragedy. And they moved on. It is not for you to bring this up as excuse. Let the Japanese bring it up if they want to. Just like India blamed its colonial past for a long time but not they have shake off this blame game and taken charge of their destiny and are making a sucess of it.
Noah also mentioned something about the fact that ?economy rules?. This is in line with a saying claimed to originate from the old fellow Rotshild, and goes something like this ?I do not care who governs the country as long as I control the economy?.
Maybe the old fellow new something that some others have missed?So why don't you work hard to change all that?
Why don't you use your talent to change all that?Here is an example of people put their talent to good use, who have not sat on their lazy ass hoping someone will solve the problem for him -)
Professor Muhammad Yunus, inventor of
micro credit.http//www.grameen-info.org/
Regards,