Discrepancies in the Quran
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Greetings PB,
Looks like you have defaulted-back to posting your plagiarized web polemic once again.
Btw?.where is that promised ?friend? of yours anyway?the one that you plagiarized this dorky piece from in the first place? lol
No where to be found.
How interesting.
I demand to see the Greek or Latin verse, where the fundamental tenet of Christianity, that being, Jesus had/has... "dual nature" nature, or, in a word, theoanthropos. You see, it my understanding that, the bible mentions three natures, all of which, can be found in the Greek
- theos...God Almighty.
Show us where ?theos? occurs in the Holy Bible?
- pneumatikos...angels/Holy Ghost.
Show us where ?pneumatikos? occurs in the Holy Bible?
- anthropos...fully human.
Show us where ?anthropos? occurs in the Holy Bible?
Have fun?
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Let me introduce you to what constitutes a contradiction/discrepancy
Take it to the christian section... This thread is about the warlord Muhammad and the many mistakes he made in his training manual
If not, then you violate 1Thess. 521...prove all things...
And when you take it to the christian section try quoting a right verse to support your DEMANDS to Prove/Substantiate.. The verse you are quoting says "dokimazo" Try/Test/Examine.. not "paristemi " Prove/Substantiate"
1Th 521 Test/Try/Examine (dokimazō all things hold fast that which is good.
The "hold fast that which is good" at the end should had given you a clue you are misquoting
So in regard to 1Th 521 -
Test/Try/Examine (dokimazō all things
That is exactly what we are doing.. we are Test/Try/Examining Muhammads Training manual
hold fast that which is good
So far there is little good to be found in Muhammads Manual that we can hold fast to....
1.. The verses about KILLING and BEHEADING are NOT Good so they must be rejected...
2.. The verses about Hating Christians and Jews and Non-Muslims are NOT Good so must be rejected
3.. The unscientific verses in the quran are NOT Good so must be rejected
4.. The Many discrepancies in Muhammads Training Manual are NOT Good so must be Rejected
5.. Muhammads self serving verses in the quran are Not Good so must be rejected
6.. The verses about forced conversions in Muhammads Manual are NOT Good so must be rejected
There is very liitle left that is Good that we can hold Fast to !!!!
If you cannot prove all things, at least in regard to your "religion", well, 1Thess. 521, is just meaningless. )
What is meaningless is you misquoting a verse to support your DEMANDS... Here is a hint for you, look for a verse with the Greek word "paristemi" or "paristano" in it because that is the Greek word for Prove/Substantiate
Example
Act 2413 Neither can they prove/substantiate (paristemi) the things whereof, they now accuse me.
When you find the right verse to support your demands, take it to the christian section and we will talk about your failure to comprehent there..
But in regard to Muhammad and the Many mistakes he made can you answer the following question
What did God SAY to Iblis when Iblis refused to prostate before Adam ?
God has told you exactly what he said so it shouldn't be hard to answer that question!!
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Albion,
And when you take it to the christian section try quoting a right verse to support your DEMANDS to Prove/Substantiate.. The verse you are quoting says "dokimazo" Try/Test/Examine.. not "paristemi " Prove/Substantiate"
1Th 521 Test/Try/Examine (dokimazō all things hold fast that which is good.
Hmmm...no, I think I will stay right here, I like it here. D Anyway
Main Entry TEST the procedure of submitting a statement to such conditions or operations as will lead to its proof or disproof or to its acceptance or rejection.
Hmmm...sounds like test or prove...are the same thing. Why do we test/examine things, is it not to determine the truth, reliability, soundness, of something? Your belief system fails the test of truth, meaning, you cannot, by way of your scriptures, produce the term theoanthropos to prove that Jesus had a dual nature nature or the term "trinity". Hence, upon examination/testing, one finds that Christian scriptures cannot support two of its essential doctrinal tenets. 1Timothy 25, defines both men and the man, Jesus, as anthropos. Please post for us the term theoanthropos, thanks. LOL! Apple Pie, failed that test, perhaps you will do better. D
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Any takers on this quiestion
What did God SAY to Iblis when Iblis refused to prostate before Adam ?
God has told you exactly what he said so it shouldn't be hard to answer that question!!
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So far you are all having troubles explaining the discrepancies put forward. So we will move on the the next one..
5419 We sent upon them violent winds, on a day of continuous misery.
4116 Consequently, we sent upon them violent wind, for a few miserable days.
6907 He unleashed it upon them for seven nights and eight days, violently. You could see the people tossed around like decayed palm trunks.
Another example of Muhammad forgetting what he said in otherr verses and contradicting himself... Similar to the the discrepancies in the verses about Allah and Ibris
5419 says the people of Aad were destroyed in 1 day
4116 says the people of Aad were destroyed in a few days
6907 says the people of Aad were destroyed in 8 days....
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In this discrepancy, the people of Lot gave only ONE response to the question but the answer do not match
2756 The only response from his people was their saying, "Banish Lot's family from your town; they are people who wish to be pure."
2929 The only response from his people was to say, "Bring to us GOD's retribution, if you are truthful."
Do they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy
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2928-29 And (remember) Lut behold, he said to his people "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you."Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this they said "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth."
2754-56 We also sent) Lut (as an apostle) behold, He said to his people, "Do ye do what is shameful though ye see (its iniquity)? Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant! But his people gave no other answer but this they said, "Drive out the followers of Lut from your city these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"
Since, Lut apparently challenged them more than one occasion as the questions are different. On each occasion he could have got only that answer. You must really try harder lol You need to demonstrate Lut got an answer to the exact question, on the same occasion but got different answers at the same time.
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So far you are all having troubles explaining the discrepancies put forward. So we will move on the the next one..
You're jesting! lol
5419 says the people of Aad were destroyed in 1 day
4116 says the people of Aad were destroyed in a few days
6907 says the people of Aad were destroyed in 8 days5419 You have not shown in 5419 that "yawm" refers to 24 hr day as opposed to a time period. Does "day" in english refer to a 24 hr period exclusively?
4116 "Ayyamin=days", I don't know where these "few" came from, it seems a quirk of translation. It is not in the arabic as far as I can see. I mean why choose this translation in particular? Is it because it suits your preconceived ideas?
6907 This refers to seven nights and eight days and refers to the event.
Your claims are flawed!
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Lut apparently challenged them more than one occasion as the questions are different.
OK so if the question is NOT word for word it is a different question.!!
Interesting!!.. Lets see what you said in regard to the different quotes for Allah and Iblis
Your logic seems to be is that consistency means a word for word quotation
You already admitted that a word for word quote isn't needed when you tried to twist your way out of the first discrepancy on this thread!!
But to try to twist your way out of this discrepancy you say that because they are NOT word for word, than they are different questions.
So lets revisit Allahs question to Ablis and apply that principle of yours..
In each version Allah quotes Himself and Iblis as saying something different.
3875 He said O Iblis! What hindereth thee from falling prostrate before that which I have created with both My hands ? Art thou too proud or art thou of the high exalted?
1532 He said O Iblis! What aileth thee that thou art not among the prostrate ?
712 He said What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee ?
more than one occasion as the questions are different.
In 3875, 1532 and 712 we have Allah (muhammad) quoting himself asking a Question of Iblis. Each question is DIFFERENT.
PROBLEM
1.. We either have 3 contradictory quotes
2.. Allah asked the same question 3 times in 3 different ways and Iblis answered 3 times in 3 different ways
Since God doesn't need to repeat a command, option 2 is ruled out and we are let with the contradiction
You have not shown in 5419 that "yawm" refers to 24 hr day as opposed to a time period.
I dont need to because all 3 verses say 3 DIFFERENT periods of time, hence the contradiction!!
5419 says the people of Aad were destroyed in 1 day
4116 says the people of Aad were destroyed in a few days
6907 says the people of Aad were destroyed in 8 days5419 says ONE period of time
4116 say Days (Plural) 3 OR more periods of time
6907 says exactly 8 (Days) periods of timeThe condradiction is still there....
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Peace,
Greetings PB,
Looks like you have defaulted-back to posting your plagiarized web polemic once again.
Polemic isn't exactly the right choice of words; I'd say it's a rather englightening argument to which you don't have much to say to.
Btw?.where is that promised ?friend? of yours anyway?the one that you plagiarized this dorky piece from in the first place?
Are you talking about me? For your information, I learned of the argument by PB himself. He introduced me to it, helped me to understand it, and argue it. It his purely his work, and is not plagiarized.
And, just because it transcends your brain capacity does not make it a "dorky" argument.
Grow up.
-Sara
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You already admitted that a word for word quote isn't needed when you tried to twist your way out of the first discrepancy on this thread!!
But to try to twist your way out of this discrepancy you say that because they are NOT word for word, than they are different questions.
Albiion,
Are you using the common psychological tools of manipulating peoples opinion? The guilt by association principle. If you have any proofs that I have twisted these then please submit your proofs.
Any rational person will see that you can not know this, yet you are stating it as a matter of certainty. Do you always state uncertainties with this sort of certainty??
Your charge is easily defeated, since it is an admission that you can not prove that the occassions were one occassion and the account varied. You failed to prove this, and anyone will see that you have not done this. So please focus on the topic and stop speculating on my motives.
I dont need to because all 3 verses say 3 DIFFERENT periods of time, hence the contradiction!!
You are not dealing with 3 precise definitions of time, only the last verse gives this information.
5419 says the people of Aad were destroyed in 1 day
4116 says the people of Aad were destroyed in a few days
6907 says the people of Aad were destroyed in 8 daysAlready defeated this argument. In addition it is not 1 in 5419 not few in 4116.
5419 says ONE period of time
4116 say Days (Plural) 3 OR more periods of time
6907 says exactly 8 (Days) periods of timeThe condradiction is still there.
There is none since the first two did not give you a precise number. A contradiction should be precise.
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Your charge is easily defeated, since it is an admission that you can not prove that the occassions were one occassion and the account varied.
That isn't my aim to prove that.. My reason for bringing this discrepancy to light is to show how you twist and turn to try to overcome the discrepancies.
You Apply one set of rules for the Allah/Iblis discrepancy (ie it is OK for a quote NOT to be word for word for the SAME Occasion) and Apply a different set of rules for the Lot discrepancy (ie A Quote Must be word for word to be the same occasion)
A Quote should be the same (word for word) when someone is quoted for it to be the same occasion, so there is only two possibilities
1.. They are DIFFERENT Occasions
2.. They are Contradictory Quotes
Now Keep these RULES in mind when you try to twist your way around the Allah/Iblis discrepancy
So far I have ONLY given you TWO of the occasions relating to the people of Lot in anticipation that you would try this trick. But in fact there are 3 contradictory Statements made by Lot and 3 contradictory responses from the people. The same as the 3 contradictory Questions that Allah asked Iblis and the 3 Contradictory Answers that Iblis gave.
But in your twisting and turning to say the 3 Allah/Iblis discrepancies are the SAME incident while the Lot incident is 2 different incidents, you overlooked the third Lot incident..
First Lots Challenge
0780 And Lut when he said to his people What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you?
2754 And Lut, when he said to his people What! do you commit indecency while you see?
2928 And Lut when he said to his people Most surely you are guilty of an indecency which none of the nations has ever done before you;
Next Lots Statement/Question
781 Most surely you come to males in lust besides females; nay you are an extravagant people.
2755 What! do you indeed approach men lustfully rather than women? Nay, you are a people who act ignorantly.
2929 What! do you come to the males and commit robbery on the highway, and you commit evil deeds in your assemblies?
Next the People Response
782 And the answer of his people was no other than that they said Turn them out of your town, surely they are a people who seek to purify
2756 But the answer of his people was no other except that they said Turn out Lut's followers from your town; surely they are a people who would keep pure!
2929 But nothing was the answer of his people except that they said Bring on us Allah's punishment, if you are one of the truthful.
So the people only gave ONE answer, but here we have 3 answers!!
There is a striking parallel between the discrepancies in the Allah/Iblis event and the Lot events where there are 3 questions asked and 3 answers given that are ALL different.
But in your twisting and turning, you say that the quotes in the Allah/Iblis event dont need to be "Word for Word" and is the SAME event, while in the Lot event you say they "MUST Be Word for Word" to be the same event therefore are different events...
Nice try but weak!!!!
So what is your new twist now that you know there are THREE versions of events for the Lot story...
Did Lot Ask the question 3 different times in 3 different ways, and the people Answered 3 different times in 3 different way ?
Tell us your new twist!!!
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And when you've finished twisting we can revisit the Allah/Iblis event to see how consistant you are. Because remember you said it is the same event
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My reason for bringing this discrepancy to light is to show how you twist and turn to try to overcome the discrepancies.
Albion,
The topic here is the consistency of the quran I hope and NOT the consistency of my position.
If you are looking at me to be rigid and unbending with the foolish notion to exercise some sort of consistency to serve a false sense of credibility, I do not play that game. What you offensively label is what I call moving with the discussion to make progress. Whether you are prepared to counter is your problem. Otherwise, what is the purpose of a discussion at all?
The issue here is clear The story of Lut.
Can you show me that the same question was asked once and it received different answers at the same time at the same place? Yes or No?
If you can not prove that this was the one question and differing accounts at the same time and place then you have not shown anything.
Peace.
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PEACE, SARA,
Good to hear from you; can't wait until you get involved again. Thanks for straightening this guy/gal out.
Are you talking about me? For your information, I learned of the argument by PB himself. He introduced me to it, helped me to understand it, and argue it.
Most pleased to have been a service.
It his purely his work, and is not plagiarized.
I hope I did not mislead you, if I did, I vehemently apologize. What I mean is this, this argument is the excellent work of Hamza Abdul Malik, who introduced it to me. I think he would be pleased though to know that we understand his argument and can apply it.
Hope you return so, peace.
PBM-
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The Next Descrepancy is in 43 and 4129
In 43 it says you can marry up to 4 wives, but ONLY if you can be fair and just to them all..
But in 4129 it says you can NEVER be fair or deal equally among your wives NEVER
43 And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course..
4129 And you have it NOT in your power to do justice between wives, even though you may wish (it), but be not disinclined (from one) with total disinclination, so that you leave her as it were in suspense; and if you effect a reconciliation and guard (against evil), then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
...
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The Next descrepancy is in verse 7160 where the feminine plural is wrongly used to describe groups of people.
We divided them into twelve tribal communities
WaqattaAAnahumu ithnatay AAashrata asbatan omamanDue to the fact that it refers to a number of people it should be written in the masculine plural form
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Dear Albion
In 43 it says you can marry up to 4 wives, but ONLY if you can be fair and just to them all..
But in 4129 it says you can NEVER be fair or deal equally among your wives NEVER
First of all you are commiting a logical fallecy, because you in your mind have assumed that there is contradiction in Quran, and you are basing your allegations on that.
Secondly the translations you have choosen are not the best ones, see the following
If you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers - you may marry two, three, or four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have. Additionally, you are thus more likely to avoid financial hardship.
4128] If a woman senses oppression or desertion from her husband, the couple shall try to reconcile their differences, for conciliation is best for them. Selfishness is a human trait, and if you do good and lead a righteous life, GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.
You can never be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try. Therefore, do not be so biased as to leave one of them hanging (neither enjoying marriage, nor left to marry someone else). If you correct this situation and maintain righteousness, GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.Thirdly you have not read the verses with understanding and just picked up one of the 100 times refuted allegation from the internet sites.
Now if you read the verse 43 carefully Allah is saying "If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one,...."
and in 4129 Allah is confirming what is being said in 43 "You can never be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try" Allah is confirming the human nature; in both the verses it is crystal clear that AllaH is putting an upper limit to the marriages unlike any other religous book and infact advocating one marriage.
If you read the first verse carefully; it is talking about the orphans, when in time of war many lives are lost mostly being man, the women are widowed and kids orphan, they had no other alternate to survive at that particular culture and time and to gain respectability other than to marry and this is logical, but making it a practice just for enjoyment or other purposes is discouraged by Allah in both the verses.
Therefore both the verses are in perfect harmony. ALLAh ho AKBAR.It is only the hate for muslims and Islam that has made them deaf dumb and blind.
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That's the most dishonest translation I've seen. The word "Mother" doesn't even appear in that verse. All you've proved is that you need to falsify the translation in an attempt to overcome the contradiction.
You explained nothing. The Contradiction is still there, 4129 says you can NEVER be fair with nore than one wife.
ALLAh ho AKBAR
"ALLAh ho AKBAR" ?? .. What is that nonsense !!