Is a man allowed to beat his wife?
-
I've read an article here at free-minds about this issue. But I don't understand it.
http//www.free-minds.org/women/beating.htm
The translation of "DARABTUM" is "depart" according to free-minds. But when I look it up in translations of Al-Quran not one translate it like that, not even in the translations done by free-minds. The verse I refer to is 494.
Translation by free-minds
494. O you who believe, if you attack in the cause of God then make a clear declaration, and do not say to those who greet you with peace ?You are not a believer!? You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with God are many riches. That is how you were before, but God favoured you, so make a clear declaration. God is expert over what you do.Translations by
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation "Thou art none of a believer!" Coveting the perishable goods of this life with Allah are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves before, till Allah conferred on you His favours Therefore carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware of all that ye do.
PICKTHAL O ye who believe! When ye go forth (to fight) in the way of Allah, be careful to discriminate, and say not unto one who offereth you peace "Thou art not a believer," seeking the chance profits of this life (so that ye may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils. Even thus (as he now is) were ye before; but Allah hath since then been gracious unto you. Therefore take care to discriminate. Allah is ever Informed of what ye do.
SHAKIR O you who believe! when you go to war in Allah's way, make investigation, and do not say to any one who offers you peace You are not a believer. Do you seek goods of this world's life! But with Allah there are abundant gains; you too were such before, then Allah conferred a benefit on you; therefore make investigation; surely Allah is aware of what you do.
KHALIFA O you who believe, if you strike in the cause of GOD, you shall be absolutely sure. Do not say to one who offers you peace, "You are not a believer," seeking the spoils of this world. For GOD possesses infinite spoils. Remember that you used to be like them, and GOD blessed you. Therefore, you shall be absolutely sure (before you strike). GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.So I wonder if anybody can explain this to me.
It seems to me that the hole article falls apart.Peace
Sara -
Salaam Sara
Don?t be despaired so easily.
The solution to your problem is quite simple, I think (hope).
You?re from Sweden, right?
So your mother language is not English, right?Mine is not English as well and so maybe you know what I cite as the experience of sometimes being not really able to translate a word from your motherlanguage adiquately into English. Not because you have a bad English but simply because sometimes no English word really fits the word you are referring to in its fullness.
And on the other hand, sometimes you might have the feeling that an English word fits the spirit that you want to refer to much better than a word of your motherlanguage.
I?ve had these experiences numerous times.Languages are never fully translateable into another language. That is one of the reasons why only the Arabic quran is the true quran.
You can not translate every Arabic word with a clear and full equivalent in English and vice versa, becaue the linguistic connections within the language are quite different.
An example
One of the attributes of Allah in the quran is is al Fattah (3426).
Quite often, especially in that context, this name is translated as Judge or Decider. A good translation in the context.
But linguistically the name is related to other terms like al fatiha (the opening, the key) and has a central meaning of opening someone or something, of taking a veil away.
The English term Decider does not have any of these linguistic connectionsAnother example from the English language
`To beat someone? has two different layers of meaning. It might mean to be better than someone else in a game but it can also mean to severely punch or hit someone.
Not in all languages of this world does exist an equivalent word that would give both of these meaning. In other Germanic language (and so I assume in Swedish, too) that is possible because the linguistic structure in all Germanic languages is similar.
But I am not sure if it would work that way with Swahili or Malay!The Arabic
daraba? has also different layers of meaning that may apply. There is no one English word that translates it in its fullness.To depart? does apply in many cases but not in all.
Sometimes you have to look at the context to translate it with the best possibility.There are many muslims scholars these days, not only in the qurani fraction but also among sectarian sunnis and shiis, that clearly say that the quranic context does not allow it at all to translate `daraba? as beating your wives.
I sincerely hope that i could help you with this.
Best wishes,
Leyla
-
Transliteration of 494
Ya ayyuha alladziina amanuu idza dharabtum fee sabiili Allahi fatabayyanuu wala taquuluu liman alqa ilaykumu as-salama lasta mu/minan tabtaghuuna 'arada al-hayati ad-dunya fa'inda Allahi maghanimu katsiiratun kadzalika kuntum min qablu famanna Allahu 'alaykum fatabayyanuu inna Allaha kana bima ta'maluuna khabiranUsage of 'dharabtum'
http//openburhan.com/pages/ob4912.htmlThe root 'Dhad-Ra-Ba'
http//openburhan.com/pages/obcc00.html...I think the word does has two meanings, to depart and to beat, and both are used in the Qur'an. Let's check the 'wife-beating' verse 434
434
Ar-rijalu qawwamoona'ala an-nisaa-i bima faddalaAllahu ba'dahum 'ala ba'din wa bima anfaquu min amwalihim fa as-salihatu qanitatun hafidzatun lil ghaybi bima hafidzaAllahu wa allatii takhafuuna nusyuuzahunna fa'idzuuhunna wa uhjuruuhunna fii al-madaji'i wa idhribuhunna fa-in ata'nakum fala tabghuu 'alayhinna sabiilan inna Allaha kana'aliyyan kabiiranVarious translations
Y.Ali Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).R.Khalifa The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.
Pickthal Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Shakir Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
Literal The men (are) taking care of matters for livelihood on (for) the women with what God preferred/favoured some of them (men and women) on some, and with what they spent from their (M) properties/possession , so the correct/righteous females are obeying humbly , worshipping humbly, protecting/safekeeping to the invisible with what God protected ; and those whom (F) you fear their (F) quarrel (disobedience) , so advise/warn them (F) and desert/abandon them (F) in the place of lying down (beds), and ignore/disregard/push them (F) , so if they obeyed you, so do not oppress/transgress on them (F) a way/method, that God was/is high, mighty/great.
Free-minds
The men are to support the women by what God has gifted them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The upright women who are attentive, and keep private the personal matters for what God keeps watch over. As for those women from whom you fear a desertion, then you shall advise them, and abandon them in the bedchamber, and separate from them; if they obey you, then do not seek a way over them; God is High, Great.Word used
Idhribu+hunna (them female)
http//openburhan.com/pages/ob0bb6.htmlIdhrib
http//openburhan.com/pages/ob1fae.html
(Three usages, all must mean 'strike/beat')Idhribu+hu (it)
http//openburhan.com/pages/obd873.html
(also mean 'beat')You might want to study the usages, but at present I cannot escape the conclusion that it does mean 'beat'.
-
peace,
Dad-Ra-Ba is a root with many meanings, and its used like that in 'al quran'.
To read its Classical Arabic meanings, and every single occurrence, with grammar comments, see PRL.
This has been discussed extensively before, please use the excellent search function at the top for this forum.
Wakas
-
Peace,
do any of you know the Ahmed Ali translation, published by Princeton University Press, 1988? This translation is very different, it is neither beat nor separate but 'go to bed with them'
"Men are the support of women as God gives some more means than others, and because they spend of their wealth (to provide for them). So women who are virtuous are obedient to God and guard the hidden as God has guarded it. As for women you feel are averse, talk to them suasively; then leave them alone in bed (without molesting them) and go to bed with them (when they are willing). If they open out to you, do not seek an excuse for blaming them. Surely God is sublime and great."
Following the Abdel Nur Prado explanation, Ahmed Ali bases his translation on the quranic comentarist Zamakhsari and the philologist el Lisan al-Arab de Raghib who affirms the verb daraba can have the metaphoric meaning of having sexual relations quoting the Arabic expression ?daraba al-fahl al-naqah?, the male camel copulates with the female camel. The most strange is that Raghib gives , exactly, 434 as example.
Had you heard about this translation and reasons?
It is incluided in the Quran in Spanish is this page www.an-nisa.es and the people from whom I knew this is from www.webislam.com
I don't find the Ahmed Ali complete translation on the net, just the links to buy it.
How can be possible so different interpretations.Another opinion against 'beat' explained by webislam is from the saud? Abdul Hamid Abu Sulayman, president of International Institute of Islamic Thought and Dean of the Islamic Internacional University of Malasia who affirms that to express 'beat' the quran uses the verb 'jalada' like in the beginning of sura an-Nur, in regards to punishment for adultery.
-
SaLaM Elena
I wouldnt be supprised if he turned out to be a shia. They are usually the ones making up verses to jump in bed with women. In my opinion, his translation cannot be right. For example, a couple are having a bad argument. The husband tries to rationalize, but she still aruges. Then he Seperates his bed ( which is just bluddy funny coz men always get the couch, so that really dont help either roll ) and as a last resort, go to bed with them? But he would be doing that even when they are not having arguments, wouldnt they? or would this one is going to be any different? In my opinion, seperating is the most logical translation.
-
actually having sex to end an arguement is very effective and leave both sides as "winners". and then theres all the build up tension and the cocktail of hormones in the body at that time, tis good...really it is!
I dig that translation
Peace
Noah -
peace be upon you Elena,
The following website has Ahmed Ali's translation for free
http//www.studyquran.org
Thanks for sharing that about 434. On past experience, I have found the commentary by Zamakhsari to be pretty good. I believe M. Asad draws on his stuff a lot. But that is not to say I agree with it. I would need to look into it further.
Wakas
-
Salaam,
I must say I agree with Noah, it's very effective to refuse sharing the bed.I have experienced that myself LOL.
Peace
Sis Majidah -
SaLaM
I suppose haveing a temporary marriage will also make sense then. Wouldnt it be great if we can all have a temp marriage and see if we can actually see ourself living with the othter person or not?
I also heard sex relieves headaches. So everytime i have a headache, should i have sex? Looooooooooooollllllllll. I mean i wont complain, but is that the right way to go around it?
-
Peace,
Does this question really need to be asked? Can I hit another person? Can I hit an older friend? The guidance from God in my opinion doesn't really tell us who to hit and who not to in everyday life! There are more effective ways of solving problems within a marriage and beating a woman really isn't going to make things better!
If I was a woman (I am not!), then I would personally want my rights and why should another individual husband or not have the right to hit me! Equal rights is prmoted by the Great Reading, making a woman inferior to a man by letting a man hit a woman just is not consistent with the essence of the guidance.
I think most people can answer this question for themselves, what would our society be like if husbands were beating the wives? What effect would it have on kids?
Also would the Most High want violence between couples when the natural law for us is to love and reproduce?!
Nural
-
-
Salaam Jaxal,
I don't think that having sex before the marriage would solve the things.
Look how people nonmuslims are facing this, not with better results and they only play with eachothers and poor innocent babies are coming into this world with no real parents.This is disgusting.
I know of couples who meet eachother during a long period and having so called dates before they get married and this not includs having sex, this can be a good way because then you learn to know the person better.
And to Elena Yes it would be nice if someone can get a good explanation of the word they use to translate as beat.
My opinion is rather advice not beat.
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Peace all,
Is a man allowed to beat his wife?
Certainly not, as per my understanding. On the contrary, on what grounds? If there's a dispute, then advice, coming to terms, councelling, etc., are the first stages of reconciliation. If that doesn't work, then seperation, time-out, etc. would seem appropriate as the next stage. Ofcourse, the final solution is divorce.
Naturally, this entire three-stage process must be given enough time to heal indifferences rather than taking drastic or hasty steps to end relationships, don't you think! Some relationships don't last too long due to negative or ulterior motives/agendas, yet some are simply naive/puppy loves to begin with. And btw, this goes both ways, hence the equality.
-
SaLaM SM
That is the exact reason why i think this new translation which was put forward wont make sense at all and i think the guy is a shia. Having sex to settle an argument is stupid.
Khi- Salam. Not in every case. It all depends on the situation. Many a times sex can be very relaxing and cause the couple to cool down, forget and forgive as emotions of love and tenderness are brought up. And yes we r talking about sex with ones spouse not out of marriage sexual relations. GOD Bless!
-
Salaam Jaxal,
I don't think that having sex before the marriage would solve the things.
Nither having sex after marriage would help to solve the problem.
Look how people nonmuslims are facing this, not with better results and they only play with eachothers and poor innocent babies are coming into this world with no real parents.This is disgusting.
No real parents!!! This is a social stigmata....marriage is not to give the identity to the new born babies. Every baby gets born with the natural identity of parents through DNA. In my opinion marriage is done only to protect the rights of each other. It doesnt have anything emotional to it. We need to get out of this thought that, "babies born without those paper works are not legitimate!!". I think we need to change our view.
For example....I met lot of couple in france who are not married and have children and also living a happy life. Even my uncle in france been living with my aunty for 5 years and next year they are getting married. But their relation was known by everyone of our family and even we had small family functions to celebrate it. but they were never married all this time. Now!! were they doing something ? to me NO... I think they were honest to the society, family and to themselves and thats enough.
Its all in the mind...
I know of couples who meet eachother during a long period and having so called dates before they get married and this not includs having sex, this can be a good way because then you learn to know the person better.
I dont see any problem in having sex also when both know what they are doing and their relation is known by their family and also the society....
It just depends on the way we define things....
peace
