How Authentic is the Quran?
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Everything is wrong. You are right
Jaxal, you're a big waste of time. The truth is, you have no idea why you believe in anything. That's not a problem in itself as long as you're willing to self-examine, rather than keep evading the issue. If I were you, I do some reading, some thinking and ponder on the Quran. Actually open it if you believe its from Allah and take your concepts from there. Im more than willing to answer your directly because I have the evidence and thus can speak for myself. If im wrong, show me why and i will correct my views. I dont post threads which i've never read and expect that to be my answer. That kind of thing is the sole domain of empty vessels.
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SaLaM mquran
No your are just mad coz evidence was smacked in ur face and you couldnt refute it. Your embaressed, which is understandable. But if this is how you will learn, then tough. With you its either a conspiracy theory or innovations by the evil scholors. Do your research before getting into an argument mquran. http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif
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LOL. So a goatskin in a museum is EVIDENCE? Jaxal, seriously go back to Sunnism. You're a sunni, pal. You need sunni style information to validate you. Some museum piece for you constitutes EVIDENCE. You need some hajjis in Saudi in Arabia to elucidate Quranic concepts for you. My God, you're about as Quranic as the pope. At least the Pope can admit he doesn't believe in Allah's words. You however want to pretend to you do and still believe in your goatskins. Funny, real funny. Its good to meet people like you. Helps us appreciate why we left Sunnism.
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SaLaM mquran
And yet, the fact remains that there is nothing you have to refute this evidence. If the evidence is soo weak, why dont u simply refute it by bringing some evidence of your own? http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif
Look mquran, getting all hysterical and making a fool of urself isnt the right way to go about it. Instead, research on this topic a bit more. Then judge from a biased mind. Ok? May God guide you. http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif
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And yet, the fact remains that there is nothing you have to refute this evidence. If the evidence is soo weak, why dont u simply refute it by bringing some evidence of your own?
Oh no, I have nothing the likes of you would value. Only Quranic verses I'm afraid. Nothing you would give 2 cents for.
Look mquran, getting all hysterical and making a fool of urself isnt the right way to go about it. Instead, research on this topic a bit more. Then judge from a biased mind. Ok? May God guide you.
Hysterical? Dude, since I have to miss the Simpsons thanks to work, you have been the biggest laugh so I have to thank you actually. As for research, if you think i've not done any, that's not my problem. I suggest you ask brother Mark though, through www.aperfectquran.co.uk. I sent him a refutation 7 years ago. He thinks like you too )
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SaLaM mquran
If you have refuted it 7 years ago, why dont you tell me all about it? Are you shy? Is memory failing you? Maybe i can learn something from it if its worthy of it. You have to stop this whole 'everything i dont agree with is a sunni conspiracy' rant and ACTUALLY provide something useful to the discussion. http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif
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I believe in the words of God. The following verse enough for me to believe that Qur'an is free of altertaftion modification addition or deletion.
159 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
I don'tf need to read rubbish written by pseudo intelectuals to prove otherwise.
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I believe in the words of God. The following verse enough for me to believe that Qur'an is free of altertaftion modification addition or deletion.
159 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
If a book claims to be free from modification and alteration then it is true is it? How does it make it true?
I don'tf need to read rubbish written by pseudo intelectuals to prove otherwise.
Are you scared that you might learn something new?
Regards,
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If you have refuted it 7 years ago, why dont you tell me all about it? Are you shy? Is memory failing you? Maybe i can learn something from it if its worthy of it. You have to stop this whole 'everything i dont agree with is a sunni conspiracy' rant and ACTUALLY provide something useful to the discussion
Because, as I said, there's no point in discussing it with you. You have already adopted Brother Mark's classification system. So that's no problem at all with me. What do I care if you believe the Quran has been altered despite the verse KGB put forth? Stew in your beliefs mate
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SaLaM mquran
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
Meaning you cant do it. Ok. That is all you had to say mquran. Actually, maybe you can help me. I am having trouble finding a verse in the Quran which says that the Quran is complete. Can you plz find me 1 verse which says that Quran is complete mquran? Id be really greatful.
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159 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
You CORRUPTED it by adding the words "from corruption" in brackets
Plus there NOTHING in verse 159 thats says it is referring to the Quran.
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I believe in the words of God. The following verse enough for me to believe that Qur'an is free of altertaftion modification addition or deletion.
159 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
The fact the you have replaced the word "Reminder/Message" in verse 159 and changed it to read "Quran" is proof that you yourself have changed what is written inside the quran... Even though it says "The Reminder", you read it as "The Quran" roll
"We have, without doubt sent down THE MESSAGE (Zhikra); And We will assuredly guard it "
Now what is THE REMINDER according to what is written in the Quran
"And before thee We sent none but men, to whom We granted inspiration If ye realise this not, ask of those who possess THE MESSAGE (Zhikri)"
Ask those who possess THE REMINDER !!!
"Before thee, also, the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration if ye know this not, ask of those who possess THE MESSAGE (Zhikri)."
Again ask those who possess THE REMINDER !!!
"In the past We granted to Moses and Aaron the Criterion (al-Furqana) (for judgment), And a Light and a Message (Zikra) for those who would do right."
MOSES and AARON was given THE REMINDER !!!
"Before this, We wrote in the Psalms, after THE REMINDER (Zhikri) `My servants, the righteous, shall inherit the earth.'"
THE REMINDER came BEFORE the Psalms !!!... This rules out the Quran
"We did aforetime give Moses the Guidance, and We gave the Book in inheritance to the Children of Israel - A Guide and A REMINDER (Zhikraa) to men of understanding."
Again MOSES was Given THE REMINDER !!!
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Salaam Albion,
Al-quran is given many descriptions one of which is aldhikr . I think you possess a misunderstanding of the words tauraat and injeel. You probably even think that tauraat is given unto Moses and Aaron. Al-dhikr is given to other rusul besides Moses and Aaron.
Joe
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I think you possess a misunderstanding of the words tauraat and injeel
Can you quote where I referred to the Torah and Injeel in this Thread. My post is about THE REMINDER
Al-dhikr is given to other rusul besides Moses and Aaron
Yes exactly, the quran is NOT the ONLY Reminder according to the quran itself and verse 159 says THE REMINDER is guarded NOT the Quran itself or at least not ONLY the quran because THE REMINDER was given to many prophets (according to what is written in the Quran)
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If you have refuted it 7 years ago, why dont you tell me all about it? Are you shy? Is memory failing you? Maybe i can learn something from it if its worthy of it. You have to stop this whole 'everything i dont agree with is a sunni conspiracy' rant and ACTUALLY provide something useful to the discussion
Because, as I said, there's no point in discussing it with you. You have already adopted Brother Mark's classification system. So that's no problem at all with me. What do I care if you believe the Quran has been altered despite the verse KGB put forth? Stew in your beliefs mate )
With due respects to you mquran, Jaxal has given you the names of those threads for you to look at. He deserves an answer. So lets have your refutation that you have done 7 years ago on this.
Thanks.
(and yes I am asking you too for the benefit all the forum members -))
Regards,
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Salaam,
Can you quote where I referred to the Torah and Injeel in this Thread. My post is about THE REMINDER
No I can't.
I brought it up because you do believe that Moses was given the Torah and you believe that tauraat equals Torah. In the quran Moses is never mentioned as the one getting the Torah.
Yes exactly, the quran is NOT the ONLY Reminder according to the quran itself and verse 159 says THE REMINDER is guarded NOT the Quran itself or at least not ONLY the quran because THE REMINDER was given to many prophets (according to what is written in the Quran)
What's the beef than that the quran is not al-dhikr, the reminder?
Are the reminders different?
Joe
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Shalom to Everyone,
With due respects to you mquran, Jaxal has given you the names of those threads for you to look at. He deserves an answer. So lets have your refutation that you have done 7 years ago on this.
Im sorry LT, Jaxal hasn't got the decency to answer questions directly, a cornerstone in civilised discussion. Therefore I will not continue. The man expects direct answers but refuses to give them himself. Then he resorts to tauntings, as if I care what anyone thinks on the matter. Well I don't. We can discuss it in private if you like.
Yes exactly, the quran is NOT the ONLY Reminder according to the quran itself and verse 159 says THE REMINDER is guarded NOT the Quran itself or at least not ONLY the quran because THE REMINDER was given to many prophets (according to what is written in the Quran)
Utter rubbish. The word the Quran uses is AZ-zikr, meaning a specific entity. So when al-quraan uses the word, we need to see the Quran itself for proof of what it is. Musa and Harun were also given AL-KITAAB (2/213) and al-furqaan. Al-furqaan is the Quran itself (25/1), so by your (sic) reasoning, Musa and Harun recieved the Quran as well?
As Joe points point, al-quraan is called DHI-DHIKR or posessor of al-zikr. Further to this, al-quraan is called 'tafseelul kitaab' (10/37) or the detailing of 'the book'. Therefore, to assert that Islam needs some other book is clearly denied by al-quraan. Albion has been shown the verses before regarding the completeness of the quran but of course, as in the case of trolls, needs to come back and repeat the story again and again. Its a shame FM practises such liberal policies.