Quran & Democracy: Are they compatible? by M. Asadi
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SaLaM KGB
All i have done is ask you to answer a simple question. There is no reason to be angry about it. Well not as far as i can see. You made a statment. Now all im asking of you is to prove that statment using the Quran. Why should it anger you? If at the moment, you dont have a suitable answer then PLZ take your time in compiling an adequate answer. In anycase, you dont have to answer ME. stillearning also asked the same question. But again, if you belive that at the moment you cannot prove your statment, then no rush. The forum isnt going anywhere. This thread isnt going anywhere. Neither am i D
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Salaam KGB
No more discussion with you. You bring anger in me. I will answer if MQuran ask this question. He will understand what I am saying. You will not understand at all.
Would you answer if I asked you the same question. I will try my best to understand. Obviousouly we cant all be as intelligent as MQuran but I promise I will try my best to undestand as I think it is one of the most crucial question facing followers of the Quran.
regards -
Salaam Alleikum Still Learning
The import point here is to understand the simple concept that Qur'an did not tell us how to elect the head of state by democratic elections. The democratically elected leaders are the biggest SOBs who are liars murderers. Democratically elected leaders of the world have killed millions of innocent people for the sake of power and material gains. Refer to Vietnam War, Korean War, the so called War on Terrorism.
Qur'an tells us that God will place the rulers on us. It is the responsibility of these rulers to implement the God laws on earth. It really doen't matter how the ruler get into power but it becomes his responsibility to implement the laws of God Almighty when they are granted power. All the present rulers have this responsibility. They can't implement the true Qur'anic laws because all the Sharia is corrupted by hearsay and the majority of Sunnis and Shias will turn against anyone who try to speak the truth.
The system of selecting could be improvised once we reach that stage. My understanding is different than MQuran.
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SaLaM KGB
NOW
Qur'an tells us that God will place the rulers on us
BEFORE
Qur'an gives us the system all we have to define how we are going to select the head of state.
So which one is it? Is it US who select the head of state or is it God who puts a ruler on earth? roll . Even leaving that aside, who is our ruler now? and if we dont have one, the what the hell are we supposed to do while we wait for the holy highness to arrive? ?
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Salaam KGB
Apolgies as no offence intended but reading your post and mqurans, it would appear that you both have no concept or any understanding how a society, country works or has worked in the past. The vagueness with which you guys write is truly breathtaking. Like jaxal i am too exacerbated with people like you and mquran because you guys bring Islam into disrepute (please dont use this as an excuse to star another discussion on meaning of Islam). The only reason he probably appears short tempered is because has had much longer to put up with so many vague completely illogical points raised by people like yourself.
You guys might know the words of the Quran but from what you write it is patently obvious that you can barely comprehend never mind understand these words.
The number of times the contradictions appear is phenomenal and there is not even a hint of sorry I got that one wrong, but the point is almost ignored as it was not even raised.
I suggest you carefuly put your posts, and those that agree with you, togather and invent a game caleed 'spot the contradictions' it will keep you occupied for considerable length of time. Oh yes! also see if you can actually yourself understand what you have written.
Regards -
Salaam Alleikum Still Learning
The problem with you guys is that you deney the clear verses of Qur'an to stick with the popular sologan Democracy is Good instead of analyzing the system.
No you prove to me why is this so called democratic system is good for the society.
I agree with G. A. Pervaiz following
Quranic Laws
I will ignore the personal comments you made in your lack of understanding of the message.
PS Also read Islamic Constitution by Layth.
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salaam kgb
The problem with you guys is that you deney the clear verses of Qur'an
and which verses these might be? Please educate me.
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Salaam Still Learning
You must change your ID to All Knowing All Wise. Arrogance that all you have inside you which you believe is intelligence. All the idiots I met in life believe the same way like you guys who believe that they know everything.
Study Qur'an yourself. Don't expect to spoon feed you.
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salaam kgb
when you have provided the requested verses.
sologan Democracy is Good instead of analyzing the system
Please state exactly the system you would like in whichever country you live in.
regards -
salaam
and which verses these might be? Please educate me
Is this a very difficult question to understand? please let me know which bit you do not understand and I will try to simplify it.
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SaLaM
Harsh criticism? since when did you all become girlys where a little constructive advice is being seen as harsh criticism?? These are the facts
1] for the last 10 pages, the best anyone could come up with against democracy is "Quran is democratic" . That is about it. no reference. no nothing from the quran. Just the word of mouth. Infact, i believe it was LT who said "Quran is ANTI -DEMOCRATIC. FULL STOP". So far, nothing from him or any of you to back that statment up or prove it.
2] THE SIMPLEST OF QUESTIONS ARE NOT ANSWERED. For example, i asked LT if he will look at the Quran to run a country. I havent got any reply. Its amazing. By the way, this question is open for all of you "quran is anti-democratic" supporters.
3] NO ONE, not me or stillearning, are wanting to put the quran out of the society. Infact, we both look at the Quran for a moral code. For example, no killing, no interest rates. So its not like we are sayign that we create the laws as they come to us in a dream. So far, NO ONE has brought any evidence what so ever that laws can be derieved from the Quran. Infact, i was even questioning the constitution made by progressive-muslims becoz some of the verse reference used there was just wayyyyyyy off.
4] Contradictions. In the case of KGB he blatantly contradicted himself not within a few posts of each other. So even those who say quran is anti democratic dont know why it is democratic. mquran talks about a messenger leading us. He believes Shareef to be the messenger. Im sorry but is that what it has come to? KGB talks about God placing a ruler on us. Again, no answer to the questions raised.
I think its crystal clear that the people who say Quran is anti democratic simply have a problem with democracy. Well... tough. In 10 pages all you could bring is "Quran is anti democratic" or "the messenger will lead us" or "allah places a ruler on us". Even the lashes have been used to prove Quran is anti democratic. Funnily enough, sunnis too share the same belief system as you guys. And we know how well the sunni countries are doing. rotfl rotfl . So if you think THAT is the kind of society God wants then you are on the wrong forum. Infact, i doubt ANY of the "Quran is anti -democratic" supporters even know how the society according to their version of the Quran will be like? Just becoz you dont like democracy, dont mean the Quran is anti democratic. all you "quran is anti-democratic" supporters need to understand.
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salaam jaxal
I dont think its that they dont understand the question. I think its that they dont have an answer.
Sadly I have to agree with you. If it is as such! why not simply accept that you hate democracy or whatever system you wish to dislike why try to justify it by misrepresenting the Quran.
I intensely dislike chelsea f.c. at present but I dont go around quoting the quran to justify my stupid irrational emotions.
In this forum there is often strong criticism of sunnis, shias and other joe bloggs for misrepresenting the Quran, but many seem quite oblivious to the fact that they are doing the same.
The very same people who in one sentence think it is rude to criticise but seem quite happy to use the words like an idiot etc, obviousouly no contradiction here.
regards -
Pickhtall Translation
2241 Those who, if We give them power in the land, establish worship and pay the poor-due and enjoin kindness and forbid iniquity. And Allah's is the sequel of events.
This means that you guys are allowed to throw all kinds of personal insults and want me to keep quite.
I don't like Dick Cheney but like to say to you both what he said to Sen. Leahy while presiding senate session.
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Pickhtall Translation
2241 Those who, if We give them power in the land, establish worship and pay the poor-due and enjoin kindness and forbid iniquity. And Allah's is the sequel of events.
This means that you guys are allowed to throw all kinds of personal insults and want me to keep quite.
I don't like Dick Cheney but like to say to you both what he said to Sen. Leahy while presiding senate session.
KGB. plz dont be such a drama queen like mquran. you are getting offended or angry for no damn reason. A simple question has been put to you and you are talking about dick cheney and changing IDs.
and that is NOT what the verse means... roll
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Peace,
Democracy means 'rule by the people'. This is the meaning of the word.
When democracy was first in practice it was a direct democracy where the people represented themselves. These people voted on what they agreed on by speakers in assemblies. It was a majority decision. They could pass or veto laws.
In modern democracies the people choose representatives who will act according to their interests. This is a representative democracy. The representatives have power, but they can be recalled by the people if they do not satisfy the people.
There are different types of democracies for sure. It has evolved. We have the pure democracy where the law actually reflects the will of the majority of the people. This form of democracy does limit individual freedoms. There is a demarchy where the people get selected at random to make decisions.
I do not think the quran advocates democracy of any form that I know of. Especially in it's original intent and meaning.
Joe
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salaam all
I do not think the quran advocates democracy of any form that I know of. Especially in it's original intent and meaning
.Ok it does not advocate democracy? But for the umpteenth time it does not oppose it either-that is the simple point of the whole discussion.
Just because you have not stated you are in favour of something it does not mean you opposed to it.