DO AYATS 5:5 AND 6:146, PRECLUDE THE PIG AS BEING HARAM...?
-
Peace Joe,
I found the key to resolve the issue.
We are allowed to eat
-Domesticated animals except blood, dead, and swine.
-All seafood.
-All game(hunted animals). - not defined in the Quran.The rest is forbidden. eg. dogs, donkeys, horses etc.
Peace,
Rami
-
Peace Joe,
I found the key to resolve the issue.
We are allowed to eat
-Domesticated animals except blood, dead, and swine.
-All seafood.
-All game(hunted animals). - not defined in the Quran.The rest is forbidden. eg. dogs, donkeys, horses etc.
Peace,
Rami
You are making a double standard. On one hand you are saying "horses are forbidden" (which is of course not true), but then on the other hand, you are saying that everything that is hunted is allowed??
If you want to abide by those rules, OK. I am not. Besides, are you still saying that chicken is forbidden???
@ Joe/mohammed (which ever is your name),
thanks for providing additional evidence from the Quran.
I think this issue needs no more discussion from Rami and myself. I am surprised that it got a quick revival just now.
Peace
-
PEACE, TO ALL,
Please pardon this, yet, another spin-off of the thread.. "Is Swine Halal". Hopefully, this will be the last.
To date, none of my opponents i.e. Marie, Savage Carrot, Tanveer, Jm, Jaxal, Sweden, have been able to overcome the following analysis. If my analysis is incorrect, then, I am hoping that Layth, Wakas, Joe, Idol, Ayman, Idris, Someone, or whoever, will step in and expose the flaw in it. It is my understanding that, when the following two ayats are taken together, they absolutely preclude the pig, either in whole or part, as being haram for food for the eater to eat.
6146 And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws/talons, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones this was a punishment We gave them on account of their rebellion, and We are surely Truthful.
55 This day (all) the good things are allowed to you; and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them;...
This is my understanding. At the time Al-Quran was being revealed, the species of animal, the pig, was not haram to the People of the Book i.e the Jews. This is my understanding, because Allah chooses His Words and means what He says, meaing, Allah made an entire category/species of animals haram to the Jews i.e. those with claws. Now, given the very fundamental fact/reality that pigs do not have claws, absolutely precludes their species of animals as being one of the species of haram animals. With this in mind then, because Allah did not make the pig haram to the Jews and, even if the Jews did forbid to themselves, it was not by Allah's Decree, that they did this, hence, the pig, at the the time Al-Quran was being revealed, was not by Allah's Decree an haram species. Given that the pig was not haram, ayat 55, clearly, tells us that the food of the People of the Book is lawful to us, hence, the pig, has to be halal to us, because it was never haram to the People of the Book in the first place and their food is halal for us.
- /JM/, wrote We have no direct knowledge of whether or not God forbade the Jews to eat pig. The torah may have been altered, so, it cannot be regarded as a reliable source of knowledge.
Now, Allah, per ayat 55, tells us that the food of the People of the Book/the Jews, is halal for us and vice versa. I've established without doubt that, prior to Al-Quran, the pig was not haram, because there exists no Quranic evidence to support such a claim, (JM, backs this up), thus, the pig, at the time Al-Quran is being revealed, is halal for the Muslim, because it was halal for the Jews/People of the Book, in that, it was NEVER haram to them in the first place. The fat of oxen and sheep and clawed animals become halal for the People of the Books/Jews, because these things were never haram for mankind in general in the first place, just for the Jews in particular, as punishment for their transgressions and not due to these things being in and of themselves rijsun/fasiqun/unhealthy for the eater to eat.
Now, prior to Allah taking away clawed animals and the fat of oxen and sheep (as punishment to the Jews), these things WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE BEEN HALAL for the Jews, otherwise, if they were already haram, how does Allah punish them? Does He make them MORE haram? Where is the pig haram before Al-Quran? Does Allah, before He revealed His Quran, decree that the pig was haram? If not, then ayats 55 and 6146, destroys the argument that the pig, either in part or whole, is haram as food.
Now, unless I've missed something in these two ayats, I don't see how the pig, either in whole or part, can possibly be haram.
Looking forward to your replies.
Listen dude, if you are so hungry for pig (whose flesh is so similar to that of humans that dermatological skin testing is done on pigs), why not just enjoy some pig (which is full of lectins, that is allergic proteins which cause an immune response of blood agglutination for all blood types) and forget about the Qur'an too while you're at it?
Why, if your craving for pig meat is so strong, do you need to wrangle with the Qur'an? Just let the Qur'an go and devour pigs to all your hearts content. Do you have some particular love for the Qur'an that you require it to tell you that pig is alright to eat? Clearly you hunger for pig, so why not eat the pig, and as much as you want? Why are you letting the Qur'an get in the way of your hearts desire?
If you believe in God, you know God created the pig, and then to top it off, God made you crave for the pig so much that you write multiple articles about it. So what could the harm possibly be? Surely, God knows your pork loving heart, and may forgive you for doing what is supposed to be harmful for you.
While having your pork dish, why not add some nice wine or alcoholic beverage to the meal as well? Maybe invite a female to fornicate with too. Have a ball (pig testacles?)
If you crave it, why dispute it, if you love it, why do you restrain yourself? What benefit is it for you to not do everything you want to do? Why not live your short life enjoying the things you so deeply desire?
In my case, I am allergic to all that, even fornication, but if you have a taste for it, oh what a struggle it must be to listen to some dusty old book that you care so deeply for apparently?
If you don't care at all what it says, then go wild, have fun!
Also, if you love the smell of roasted pig flesh, the smell of flesh roasting, you may be granted an eternity of that odor which is so pleasurable to you. It personally makes me a bit sick, but I know a place you might be well suited to where that smell one might imagine would be frequent.
-
Listen dude
You write like this guy is going to read what you write right now right here.
-
You write like this guy is going to read what you write right now right here.
Haha yeah, I know he wrote it in 2005, I was writing it as a general humorous reaction. Humorous for me and my family anyway if they were to read it, and some of the people who enjoy my posts and follow them here maybe, or anyone who might find it while also knowing that I'm silly.
Priest Bokmei just represents a general "shadow" to say these things to for whatever humor and lessons they may contain.
Not important to me if he eats pork or not or thinks the Qur'an says it or not, but the one point I've been developing in some posts is the idea that some people have certain cravings in them it seems which maybe you and I are not given to the same degree or at all.