sex before marriage
-
Salaamun alaikum,
Elke Sure i don't share mqurans understanding on forgiveness on the compeller which is real strange! Unless we havn't gotten him right ?
What about it mquran ?The key word in that phrase is 'min ba'da ikrihinna' (lit. 'from after thier compulsion') which indicates that the compulsion isn't there anymore. They stopped doing it, then Allah is ready to give them maghfirah.
KGBThank you very much for your reponse.
You're welcome. Hope it helped.
Taj Sex outside marriage is Zina.
Compare this with what this person said yesterday
If married
people engage in sex from outside the marriage, this is Zina
.Now the tune is, despite the obvious sin of prostitution, its ok under compulsion whereas previously, it was
Prostition is sex for money and as long as there are men who are willing to pay for it and there are women who need that money then that job will continue to exist.
Is prostitution a Zina? They are two different things although both involve sex. Al Zina is a Fa7ishah as described in Al Quran. Al Bighaa'a is not identified as such. There are desperate people in this world who cannot afford to marry but can buy some desperately needed satisfactions and Allah understands perfectly. There are limits to this fullfilment, and those who exceed those limits will have Allah waiting for themSo now we have moved from 'prostution is ok, forcing women into is not' and 'zinaa is for married people only' to 'prostitution is wrong, but ok under compulsion' to 'zina is sex outside the marriage'
Tomorrow, you'll all be told something else entirely. Do watch out. The danger of these internet discussions is people can claim to be all sorts of things and hide behind the Arabic nativeness and claiming authority over the language. Ask any Arab you meet what 'as-salaat' or 'ibadah' is and check it against al-quraan. You will then see that hiding behind Arabic nativeness is pure drivel. Arabic has been mutilated so badly that original Quranic meanings can only be obtained from one place (no, its your manuscripts, Jaxal)
LTrostitution is the oldest Profession in the world. This is hardly likely to happen! Sex is a biological need. Men and women will always meet this need either through marriage, prostitution or illicit affairs...
I believe in a society of believers, they won't because believers understand God's system which will invoke peace, salaam.
-
As Salaam Alaikum Taj,
Has it not occured to you that maybe the verse 2433 is speaking in regards to the men who will only allow her freedom if they have sex with them?
Also if Allah says in the verse that he will forgive the girls who are in forced into prostution... what makes you think that prostitution is ok? Why would Allah forgive people for things that are legal? We only ask for forgiveness when we sin and do the bad deeds.
Also I would like to make it clear to you that this is NOT rape. Rape victims aren't those of sin in such cases..... but this deals with girls who are in situation of desperation and have no toher choices but to do it, and even despite their situaotin, we can see that prostituoin is still a sin becuase Allah says that he forgives the girls who are compelled to do it.
salaam
-
Salam NoProgressive,
Has it not occured to you that maybe the verse 2433 is speaking in regards to the men who will only allow her freedom if they have sex with them?
I don't see in the Ayah anything about sex as a price to freedom.Also if Allah says in the verse that he will forgive the girls who are in forced into prostution... what makes you think that prostitution is ok? Why would Allah forgive people for things that are legal? We only ask for forgiveness when we sin and do the bad deeds.
The sin is when those women put their bodies in harm's way. The sin is when Allah gives you something i.e. your body, your health, your children, etc and then you don't take care of it. Some desperate people would sell their children, others would sell their kidneys, etc..
The thing is those women know that what they are doing is not right for themsleves but they are desperate.Also I would like to make it clear to you that this is NOT rape. Rape victims aren't those of sin in such cases..... but this deals with girls who are in situation of desperation and have no toher choices but to do it, and even despite their situaotin, we can see that prostituoin is still a sin becuase Allah says that he forgives the girls who are compelled to do it.
salaam
Thank you.
Women in such situations not only feel bad about themsleves for the tough choices they have to make, but also they feel guilty and so they are also in desperate need of reassurance from their Creator, the Best knowing of their situation. Allah reassures them and grants them mercy and forgiveness, without conditions = no mentioning of Tawbah. -
-
Salaam,
This is a terrible thread!! evil
-
If anybody comes to me and asks me for my advice, I will direct them to Al Quran and advice them to check what Allah says about their situation, whatever their situation is. I am in no position to control or judge or blame. That is all.
Better make sure it's 'al-quran as translated by the prostitutes association of arabia' . Only then can it verify the nonsense you spoke of.
-
I believe in a society of believers, they won't because believers understand God's system which will invoke peace, salaam.
Yes, even believers have biological need for sex! -)
Even the Mullahs with long beards like sex very much!
And the ones I know usually have 9 or 10 kids!Regards,
-
Peace,
I have not read the whole thread but I have my personal understanding that I would like to share.
To my knowledge marriage as defined in the book is simply a commitement between two people with two witnesses (I am unsure about who these witnesses must be, but I am going to assume two human beings, obviously not the man and woman but people outside the relationship because then it would be a secret love affair between two sneaky people)!
Just because society has made many rituals for this union that does not mean that they are authorised by Divine law, from my experience these are all just traditions and practices made by men and are not a necessity in uniting two people.
Thats my view, its not anti-tradition or outlawish, it is just an observation I have made, i have not seen any kind of formal traditions which are necessary.
There is the concept of 'dowry' to be included too for protection of the woman. So after all this you have to see if you have met the guidelines to continue onto the next stage.
Nural
-
Shalom !
LTYes, even believers have biological need for sex!
Even the Mullahs with long beards like sex very much!
And the ones I know usually have 9 or 10 kids!Well LT, in the definition of the quran, a 'mumin' is one who is actually changed in his behaviour thanks to his belief. He will be continually trying to uphold God's commandments.
And come on, you can't be serious with the mulla reference!
-
Salaam all,
I agree with br Damon that this is an terrible thread.
For the last time I will once more point out that I can't really see that any truebeliever male or female out of desperation will commit illicit sexual acts.
Even if a truebeliever can be desperate he/she will seek God and ask for advice and to achieve peace again in his/her life.
Sister Taj These so called muslims you are talking about who practise zina can't be muslims in peace and muslims not in peace are a sad story because they don't seek help from God, they don't trust God but trust Shaitan, it s shaitan who will lead them into the temptations.
Peace
Sister MajidahP.s Don't defend peoples sinful acts
-
Salaamun alaikum,
Majidah Sister Taj These so called muslims you are talking about who practise zina can't be muslims in peace and muslims not in peace are a sad story because they don't seek help from God, they don't trust God but trust Shaitan, it s shaitan who will lead them into the temptations.
That's exactly right, Majidah. Musa said O my people! If ye do (really) believe in Allah, then in Him put your trust if ye submit (10/84). I wish more people would trust Allah rather than evil cultural norms they make excuses for.
-
SaLaM LT
Even the Mullahs with long beards like sex very much!
And the ones I know usually have 9 or 10 kids!That is so true loll. DId u hear about the muslim population outgrowing the christian population by the end of 2050 in UK? llooooooll. How do you think this will be accomplished. loooool. Every imam thinks its his duty to have a football team in his house. Looooll rotfl
-
Peace Majidah,
Sister Taj These so called muslims you are talking about who practise zina can't be muslims in peace and muslims not in peace are a sad story because they don't seek help from God, they don't trust God but trust Shaitan, it s shaitan who will lead them into the temptations.
I didn't talk about Muslims practising Zina. Zina was discussed on other threads. I wrote about Bighaa'a as mentioned in .P.s Don't defend peoples sinful acts
Why do you want to control and judge my uderstanding of Ayah !?
-
Taj I didn't talk about Muslims practising Zina. Zina was discussed on other threads. I wrote about Bighaa'a as mentioned in .
Zina (according to Taj herself) = sex outside marriage.
Al-bighaa = an act where a man pays a woman NOT MARRIED TO HIM to have sex with her.
Ergo al-bgihaa is a subset of az-zinaa.
Why do you want to control and judge my uderstanding of Ayah !?
Despite all the evidence...wow.
-
Taj I didn't talk about Muslims practising Zina. Zina was discussed on other threads. I wrote about Bighaa'a as mentioned in .
Zina (according to Taj herself) = sex outside marriage.
Al-bighaa = an act where a man pays a woman NOT MARRIED TO HIM to have sex with her.
Ergo al-bgihaa is a subset of az-zinaa.
Why do you want to control and judge my uderstanding of Ayah !?
Despite all the evidence...wow.
Peace all,
I don't think this is a terrible thread at all. What I am worried about are socially constructed ideals seeping INTO the discussion.
To say whats allowed and whats not is not the point of my post. I can actually see the point of both. Mquran, you are also putting your own swing on "marriage" that are extraquranic. Per the Qur'an, a huge part of a marriage agreement are the nuptial gifts given to the woman from the man. Have you ever considered that Zina might be-in fact-men and women having sex without the man giving SOMETHING out of his wealth? In this case, Al-bgihaa would NOT be Zina since the man is spending his wealth.
I say this simply because the God uses very precise words to convey the message and perhaps we should take a closer look at the conceptual similarities and differences of the words being used regardless of what we think and agree with.
peace.
-
SaLaM Salikah
You mean like when two people decide to live together, have babies and all that but without any 'marriage' ? I think, that makes sense then.
Mquran, this is a free forum. Everyone is welcomed here to have their own belief. You need to stop making it personal when someone disagrees with you.
-
Peace Salikah,
I don't think this is a terrible thread at all.
I didn't understand the "This is a terrible thread!" comment! I mean aren't we supposed to study the Quran? The whole 114 Suwarr!?What I am worried about are socially constructed ideals seeping INTO the discussion
Let me tell about something that happened to me a couple of years ago. I called on the phone one big Ullamah here in my country who is on hotline answering questions from ananymous callers, and I asked "Sir, why is it Haram for the woman to perform salaat during the mensus? I read the whole Quran and couldn't find anywhere that says that women should stop salaat during that time? And you know sir, Salaat is the backbone of religion, so how can a woman break her religion!?"
And Salikah, you wouldn't believe the curses he fired at me on the phone just because I dared to question it!!!To say whats allowed and whats not is not the point of my post. I can actually see the point of both. Mquran, you are also putting your own swing on "marriage" that are extraquranic. Per the Qur'an, a huge part of a marriage agreement are the nuptial gifts given to the woman from the man. Have you ever considered that Zina might be-in fact-men and women having sex without the man giving SOMETHING out of his wealth? In this case, Al-bgihaa would NOT be Zina since the man is spending his wealth.
I say this simply because the God uses very precise words to convey the message and perhaps we should take a closer look at the conceptual similarities and differences of the words being used regardless of what we think and agree with.
Perfectly said! Allah does not shy away from Al Haq nor does He lacks words.
-
As Salaam Alaikum,
Salam NoProgressive,
I don't see in the Ayah anything about sex as a price to freedom.
Taj you are trying to argue that prostitution is ok in Islam. at least you are trying to say that it is not forbidden.
The verse that you have quoted is taking about SLAVES who are making contracts to gain freedom from thier masters. Allah says DO NOT force them to give sex in exchange for freedom. And even when a woman DOES consent to give sex, Allah says that he will forgive her (i.e. it is a sin on her part to give sex).
The sin is when those women put their bodies in harm's way. The sin is when Allah gives you something i.e. your body, your health, your children, etc and then you don't take care of it. Some desperate people would sell their children, others would sell their kidneys, etc..
The thing is those women know that what they are doing is not right for themsleves but they are desperate.Oh gosh give me a break. Prostitution is a sin, becuase it causes all of those things. PLease don't say that prostitution isn't the sin. htat's like saying "doing crack isn't a sin... the harming of your body is".
salaam
-
Salaamun alaikum Salikah,
To say whats allowed and whats not is not the point of my post. I can actually see the point of both. Mquran, you are also putting your own swing on "marriage" that are extraquranic. Per the Qur'an, a huge part of a marriage agreement are the nuptial gifts given to the woman from the man. Have you ever considered that Zina might be-in fact-men and women having sex without the man giving SOMETHING out of his wealth? In this case, Al-bgihaa would NOT be Zina since the man is spending his wealth
Would you please point out where I have done this? I do my best to excise extra-quranic values from my thinking so if you could please point this out, that'd be good.
Here are my definitions thus far
-
marriage a contract between a man and woman , 2 witnesses, the gift, and a period of iddah after the divorce if there's one. (so hooking would be rather difficult, dont u think, with 4 johns a year)
-
zina sex without the above contract
-
al-bighaa sex which is paid for but nothing else.
How did I import my personal feelings?
thanks and peace.
-