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Doesn't this already negate secterianism? ?
Why does it?
I know that myself, and a couple of people, at least, are not "Qur'an alone". God alone is the closest to any name you could give me. D And I think that goes pretty well with what you said earlier
Yes. This is why I qualified my statement with "many"...as to point out that some people here may not consult the qur'an as a guidance in their lives.
Maybe anyone here would care to clarify;
- What is the name of this sect? (free-minds?... are the members free-minders? ? )
- Is this sect a smaller part of the main group - muslims? (as mquran talked about)
- Is there a leader/messenger as other sects have.
- Is there a common understanding/rules that we abide by or follow?
Just checkng. )
I think that I may be talking about a different thing. I was debating whether or not a group of people who follow the qur'an alone could be considered a "sect". My opinion yes, others could. My opinion on free-minds is that it is a website that largely promotes guidance and understanding by the qur'an alone, but doesn't entail everything in my own deen and is a place where everyone of all backgrounds can come and present their perspectives and knowledge. That's it. So, in essence, it has a lot of people who follow the qur'an alone, but that's not it. And you're right...if this website became a sect, what would it be called? Sorry, but I don't think "free-minder" is neither catchy nor accurate lol
One doesn't have to follow the qur'an to be God alone, of course. You can find out answers regarding God's system in the universe by numerous channels. I mean, a scientist who is studying quantum physics is also learning about how God fashioned the universe, is he not?
Peace back to ya! )>-
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Layth did say, if I remember correctly that Rashad Al Khalifah was the Messanger. Rashad Al Khalifah Code 19 followers will not include 9-128 -9-129 becaue that will make Rashad Al Khalifah claim to be a Messanger and Qur'an is divisible by 19. Ayman has very brilliantly debated this issue on Code 19 and I realy don't have anything more to add on Code 19.
The unity could be achieved if we don't try to temper with the message of Qur'an in the name of moderization. Do not try to change the verses numbering because they are old. These verses numbering is for the sake of referencing than leave them alone don't as they are and don't try to change them because you have found it in some historical documents. History can't be error free.
MQu'an Leader who can unite us is the more appropriate than any Messanger.
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Salaam KGB,
Layth did say, if I remember correctly that Rashad Al Khalifah was the Messanger. Rashad Al Khalifah Code 19 followers will not include 9-128 -9-129 becaue that will make Rashad Al Khalifah claim to be a Messanger and Qur'an is divisible by 19. Ayman has very brilliantly debated this issue on Code 19 and I realy don't have anything more to add on Code 19.
Personally, I would never run with anyone who questions the integrity of al-quraan. While I respect Layth and his initiatives, his stand on the Warsh prevents me from joining up. The same would be true if Ayman started a movement, because its 'anything goes' once u question the text itself. Not that im any great asset, just stating my point that all.
The unity could be achieved if we don't try to temper with the message of Qur'an in the name of moderization. Do not try to change the verses numbering because they are old. These verses numbering is for the sake of referencing than leave them alone don't as they are and don't try to change them because you have found it in some historical documents. History can't be error free.
They can change the 'sura' names and the numbering if they like. Once they change the actual text itself, then things get problematic.
MQu'an Leader who can unite us is the more appropriate than any Messanger
KGB, perhaps we're talking past each other due to the meaning of the words we use, not the words itself.
To me, ar-rasool is different from al-mursal (one who bears the message). Ar-rasool is the EMBODIMENT of the risalaat, the message. He walks, talks and breathes al-quraan. He is the epicentre of the movement, he leads, encourages and is the controller of its internal economy. There really isn't a movement without this guy, KGB.
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Layth did say, if I remember correctly that Rashad Al Khalifah was the Messanger.
Correction...As I mentioned previously, I am not a believer in Rashad or his claim to messengership. I will use this post to prove to you why he is not the one in 381 and therefore he is teaching false ideas.
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In my conclusion, Rashad Khalifa is NOT the messenger the prophets vowed to support in 381, but he has made a claim to messengership and required people to believe in him before they can be considered Muslim! (see his footnotes for 381). These teachings are not only false, but also blasphemous, and thus will incurr the punishment of 693
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=794Peace
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wow, the debate is now on what layth said and didnt say
Layth,do us all a favour.tell us yourself what led u to create this forum, and what this forum is all about, so that it would get clearer to everyone participating here.
that should put an end to all the fears related to free-minds becoming a sect or anything of that sort. -
Why is everyone getting so worked up about a word anyway?
'sect' ?? u can say it and it wont bite.
If FM is sect, so what? Is 'the main body of muslims' a legitimate term ? If not, how did FM become a sect?
Does FM exclude anyone? Even people who can't read participate in this forum!
Does FM have wierd rituals where Layth dresses up like the Grandee of the KKK and chant 'death to non-fm'ers' and burns copies of Bukhari's hadith ? Well I don't know for sure, but im guessing not.
FM is a discussion group. It doesn't even come close to the quranic definition of the islamic movement. So we're not playing by anyones rules except the one who defines the word.
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"Layth" I accept his claim to messengership. I do not however accept his footnote about 381 or the issue of the 2 verses in sura 9 or alot of the other research he came-up with. Link http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2836&highlight=
Allah Taala has given me excellent memory. Put some extra memory slots in my brian.
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Salaam Joe,
I think I agree with you. Someone or some people must fill the shoes. It would be a great help from Allah.
Help from Allah's part of it. 40/51 tells us Allah helps his messengers and those who believe and 3/160 tells us that with help of Allah comes victory. So you're already 'the nabi', when are you going to be 'ar-rasool' as well
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What is worth also noting is that the prophecy in 4410-14 speaks of the messenger being well educated/clearly educated, which matches the aspect of Dr. Khalifa possibly being the only messenger claimant in history who was holding a doctorate degree (messengers have always been called magician, poet, soothsayer, crazy but never well educated which is a further clue that this messenger of 4414 has to do with the field of education and the title he would hold).
<----- UNBELIEVABLE.44/10-14 has nothing to do with doctorates because al-quraan never mentions formal education. All messengers came with clarifications.
Very, very shocking indeed.
Well, DR Khalifa also deleted 2 verses. I wonder if that is part of his PHD or his messengership.
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Dear Mahdi...
...you have left out some crucial parts as for the definition of a sect.
Besides, free-minds is a web page where people gets to express their thoughts on God mostly from a view of the qur'an - thus I can't see how it fits the definition of a solid group. Do you?
regards,
S -
Peace Fam,
Mehdi my friend, you seem to be in a state of limbo and have some confusions and doubt about what you should be believing and doing. And instead of discussing and asking questions, you throw around accusations and initiate senseless threads. I know this will come off as an attack, but I think you have some growing up to do.
Two things that make for a sect are......
1). Uniform rules and views that all members must share (if they are to be a part of this sect).
And..
2). Spiritual Leader(s) to direct this sect in a certain direction.
Free-minds has neither of these. For crying out loud Mehdi, free-minds is a Discussion Board.......A DISCUSSION BOARD. How on earth can anyone call a discussion board/forum a sect??!!
By the way, it is my opinion that you should drop the obnoxious sarcasm routine. People who do this do so due to insecurities and in hopes of getting in the heads of those they are debating against. It is also done when they don't have an answer to something presented to them.
One last thing, for future reference, if you are going to quote me I ask that you either quote everything I said and not chop it up in bits and pieces (so people can get the full picture of my position) or provide a link to the thread in which the quote appears so others can go and see ALL that was said by the person quoted and be able to place it in proper context. )
That's only fair, is it not?
One,
Damon. -
Peace all,
Has there ever been a message without an agenda? Isn't an 'agenda' a defining part of a message?
I agree with this. Not only that, but our friend M_Mehdi seems to not realize that no matter what position or views people may have, others who disagree or oppose their views will always come up with a label to stick on them. Usually, it's not a very friendly label, but a label none-the-less.
One,
Damon. -
Salaamun alaikum Damon,
One last thing, for future reference, if you are going to quote me I ask that you either quote everything I said and not chop it up in bits and pieces (so people can get the full picture of my position) or provide a link to the thread in which the quote appears so others can go and see ALL that was said by the person quoted and be able to place it in proper context.
That's only fair, is it not?
Very fair. The sad truth is, decontextualisation is the tool of those who refuse to address questions directly. Those people are here for egotistical reasons. Loudness, brashness and obnoxiousness are their traits.