who is a messenger of God?
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Peace,
Kyle, not sure what you are leading to, but Mohammed is clearly both a Prophet and Messenger of God as outlined in the verses already displayed by KGB.
KGB, not sure why you state in your signature "Mohammed the last prophet and last messenger". The Quran supports him being the seal of the Prophets, but not the final messenger (messengers will continue until j-day).
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LaythKGB, not sure why you state in your signature "Mohammed the last prophet and last messenger". The Quran supports him being the seal of the Prophets, but not the final messenger (messengers will continue until j-day).
Layth, have you changed your position or something? I remember you rejecting Shareef/Genuine-Islam's messengership as you believed no further messengers are coming?
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Peace be upon you all,
My point was simple, I asked KGB to show me the PHRASE "Prophet Muhammad", which is not in this reading. We can talk about "implications" next, but to lay the foundation, we need to clarify certain things. However, KGB is unwilling to admit a simple observeable fact.
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Peace be upon you All
Thank you. The purpose of this discussion is fulfilled. I have no problem with Kyle and MQuran understanding of Prophet. People who will be visiting this forum will clearly see that Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was the person to whom Allah send the revelation Qur'an. Layth thank you.
I clarify this Last Massenger belief to MQuran in the past. Qur'an is the last book of Allah and there will be no more revelations (wahi) will be send once this book is completed. Please refer to 5101 this is the verse which make me come to this definate conclusion.
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Peace be upon you KGB,
People who will be visiting this forum will clearly see that Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was the person to whom Allah send the revelation Qur'an. Layth thank you.
Is there a video on this forum showing the transacton? What did I miss? Also, one other question for you KGB? Why do you put (SAW) after an alleged man's name, but NOTHING after the Creator of all things? Not that I promote saying (SWT) after Allah, but it is interesting to see how "muhamad" is respected more than Allah by those who can't serve the God without adding a partner.
I clarify this Last Massenger belief to MQuran in the past.
No where is it stated that there is a "LAST" messenger nor "LAST" prophet. SEAL does not mean "LAST" nor "END".
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Peace be upon you Kyle
What you said is your understanding? How you do translate the word "Seal"? People have mistranslated the words of Qur'an in the past and there are people now who translate words of Qur'an to promote their own ideas and promote their own agenda.
I try to do what I am commanded to do by Allah (SWT). Following is one of the verse which command us to honor Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). I believe English make you more comfortable.
7157 Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honor him and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him they are the successful.
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Peace,
Layth, have you changed your position or something? I remember you rejecting Shareef/Genuine-Islam's messengership as you believed no further messengers are coming?
I have never held the view that there would be no more messengers after Mohammed...From my reading of the Scripture, it is a certainty to continue until J-day.
As for Shareef, I rejected his claims because all that he said contradicted the guidelines that were give to us by God...His claim was centered around himself and people acknowledging him rather than focussing on God Alone which is what a true messenger would convey...His attitude/arrogance did not convey God's teachings...Hie did not even know who he was supposed to be a messenger to (was it to the arabs, to the english, to his people, etc..)...Shareef is delusional at best, mentally disturbed at worst.
I clarify this Last Massenger belief to MQuran in the past. Qur'an is the last book of Allah and there will be no more revelations (wahi) will be send once this book is completed. Please refer to 5101 this is the verse which make me come to this definate conclusion.
Messengers do not bring revelations/wahi, they simply reinforce that which is already delivered...It is Prophets who bring wahi/revelations...Thus, all Prophets are messengers, but not all messengers are Prophets.
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Peace be upon you KGB,
What you said is your understanding? How you do translate the word "Seal"?
A seal is something that is penetrated by those who reach the level of "muhammadun" in order to INTUIT Divine Wisdom. The God uses another word all over this book to describe the concept of END/LAST. Why would the concept of a LAST/FINAL messenger use a different word? Please do not respond just to protect what you were taught (as most of us where taught the same thing), but refelct deeply on this.
People have mistranslated the words of Qur'an in the past and there are people now who translate words of Qur'an to promote their own ideas and promote their own agenda.
Correct, so why do you follow what you were taught so readily? Where is your critical reasoning brother?
I try to do what I am commanded to do by Allah (SWT). Following is one of the verse which command us to honor Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him).
I am glad you gave Allah at least the same veneration that you gave Muhammad this time, but you must take a look at yourself and ask WHY you were in that position to be corrected. We must always inspect ourselves and our ideas. Do not take what is being said here as an attack on you, many of us have been here for many years going through the same process you are going through. After a while, these generic answers will weigh on your conscious and you will look for something more substancial.
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Peace,
Layth, have you changed your position or something? I remember you rejecting Shareef/Genuine-Islam's messengership as you believed no further messengers are coming?
I have never held the view that there would be no more messengers after Mohammed...From my reading of the Scripture, it is a certainty to continue until J-day.
As for Shareef, I rejected his claims because all that he said contradicted the guidelines that were give to us by God...His claim was centered around himself and people acknowledging him rather than focussing on God Alone which is what a true messenger would convey...His attitude/arrogance did not convey God's teachings...Hie did not even know who he was supposed to be a messenger to (was it to the arabs, to the english, to his people, etc..)...Shareef is delusional at best, mentally disturbed at worst.
Peace
Shareef attitude was excatly the same the people who claim to be Messanger of Allah (SWT). Mirza Ghulam Ahmed claims are absurd, he was arrogant, his all wahi were related to money and women, he used abusive language for people who do not believe in his messangership, he was self centered. He was mentally distrubed as well. His claims that Allah (SWT) has changed the centre from Mecca to Quadian. Latest Rashad Al Khalifah, self centred, arrogant, manipulator.
There are other as well like Ismailis Aga Khan, Bohris Syedna Buhran uddin which are religious corporations for making money.
Messengers do not bring revelations/wahi, they simply reinforce that which is already delivered...It is Prophets who bring wahi/revelations...Thus, all Prophets are messengers, but not all messengers are Prophets.
This is good interpretation. I don't disagree with this. I did not meet anyone who is a true messanger of Allah (SWT) and the chances are and I never will by looking at the examples of people who claimed to be the messager after Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). So our discusssion concluded with this post. Thank you again Layth.
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Peace be upon you Kyle
LOL. You will not change. You see the clear message and try to make it complicated with your twised logic. Do you have Phd in Arabic? I know that you are not an Arab so you must have alteast Phd degree to read understand and do the interpretation of Qur'an verses.
I explained this "seal" too somewhere on the forum. It will not waste of time to explain it to you who is playing game of words with me. Live with you twisted logic and understanding.
True are the words of Allah (SWT) that people who don't have no faith will never be able to understand the message of Qur'an. Look inside yourself and find out what is wrong with you faith.
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Peace be upon you KGB,
LOL. You will not change
Thats just it brother, I have changed and continue to be flexible towards the best understanding. Why does this message tell us to listen to all opinions and follow the best? Why are we told to sek increase in knowledge if we are going to blindly believe our "scholars" and imams? Wether Arabic or not arabic, it is a guide and healing to trust in it.
Lastly, dont forget the verse where itstates there are those who KNOW this message but delibertaly change the meanings. I'm sure you will say that is me and others here, but you must step away from traditional thought for a moment to see clearly. Just liek Mary seperated herfself from her family (tradition) to give birth to Isa, son of Marium. It is the WILL that is responsible for man deciding for him/herself and not blindly following the fathers. All is said with sincere respect brother.
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Peace,
Kyle, not sure what you are leading to, but Mohammed is clearly both a Prophet and Messenger of God as outlined in the verses already displayed by KGB.
salam all .
does Koran say that Muhammad is a PROPHET ? no . according to the Koran, Muhammad is a messenger of Allah and SEAL of the prophets , not a PROPHET himself . what do u ppl think ? -
Darbari does Koran say that Muhammad is a PROPHET ? no . according to the Koran, Muhammad is a messenger of Allah and SEAL of the prophets , not a PROPHET himself . what do u ppl think ?
Well, the facts are
- Muhammad is Rasulullah (48/29)
- 49/2-3 uses the word 'an-nabiy' and 'rasulullah' interchangably.
Therefore, Muhammad must be a 'nabi' as well as 'khatamun nabiyeen'.
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I have never held the view that there would be no more messengers after Mohammed...From my reading of the Scripture, it is a certainty to continue until J-day.
Oh ok. Well, if you meet one (or are indeed one yourself), please let me know. I'm seriously looking for rusul to pledge my allegiance to.
As for Shareef, I rejected his claims because all that he said contradicted the guidelines that were give to us by God...His claim was centered around himself and people acknowledging him rather than focussing on God Alone which is what a true messenger would convey...His attitude/arrogance did not convey God's teachings...Hie did not even know who he was supposed to be a messenger to (was it to the arabs, to the english, to his people, etc..)...Shareef is delusional at best, mentally disturbed at worst.
Ok. Well, I'm not sure if a messenger is limited to a particular race. I understand 'qaum' to be people who're established together (like qaumil kafireen) and not a racial group.
I didnt have a chance to ask Shareef much, he was always defensive.
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Peace be upon you,
does Koran say that Muhammad is a PROPHET ? no . according to the Koran, Muhammad is a messenger of Allah and SEAL of the prophets , not a PROPHET himself . what do u ppl think ?
It never says "muhammad" is a prophet because all of the prophets are "muhammadun", meaning one has to attain the state of "hamd" to intuit God's wisdom.
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Peace be upon you MQ,
Oh ok. Well, if you meet one (or are indeed one yourself), please let me know. I'm seriously looking for rusul to pledge my allegiance to.
You've never been informed of truth by someone else? There are messenger all around us and within us. If someone tells you not to smoke, thats a messenger.
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You've never been informed of truth by someone else? There are messenger all around us and within us. If someone tells you not to smoke, thats a messenger.
Quranically, that's a mursal because I've never met a guy who totally practises the book and is on a movement, which is a rasool.
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Peace
I've never met a guy who totally practises the book and is on a movement
True. I have not either.
Joe
And neither were any mystical/philosophical men or the "wisdom quoters/writers".
There are messenger all around us and within us. If someone tells you not to smoke, thats a messenger.
Agree with you here. My understanding is that a 'prophet' (nabi) is a mystical/philosophical person who initiates/advocates a message and all those who believe in his message and further spreads them, become messengers (rasul).
mystical Of or having a spiritual reality or import not apparent to the intelligence or senses.
Of, relating to, or stemming from direct communion with ultimate reality or God.philosopher a wise person who is calm and rational; someone who lives a life of reason with equanimity.
