Allah is a logical entity.
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we find ourself in agrement on many things Lote Tree.
I have no idea in the world what God is. But I enjoy the illusion that God creates. Entity, not enity I dont know and it's none of my business what God is or isn't. Merely guessing will make none of us come closer to the answer. I will wait and see, and untill then I am going to enjoy life and try to be the best that I can be with the tools handed to me.I have felt God so many times, so powerful it knocked me over. I have tried several times that my soul left my body so I could view the world in all 3 dimensions at once. Even travel space at a blazing speed.
I dont need a book, o rather i prefer to study more than just one. The bible, Torah, and the Sanskrit is a really good read too. I know that God is. What I dont know is what God is. -
Neo says a whole lot more...this is yet another fine example of capacity for comprehension and logical thought. roll
Are you a spokesperson for neo Savage Carrot?
I have noticed that everytime he pops up, you do too! -)
Its strange....Regards,
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On one hand you smack me around for seeking the unseen knowledge, on the other you use a quote with my excact viewpoint.
Eh? Is this your brilliant understanding of the phrase and your viewpoint? /
The Qur'an is altso the words of God. Those can be found in many places. In fact for those who wants to know, the message can be found by looking at how the camels are created, and how the sky is raised etc.
By your quotes in your posts, you too may like to jump from 'a' truth and the absolute truth like your pal, Lotetree...so which is it? To clarify once and for all? Is the quran the irrefutable word of God? Is it the absolute truth? Or is it 'a' truth whatever that means, which you will have to explain if you share the same viewpoint.
You like logic, right? Please tell me why God didn't just preserve his scripture to begin with. Then we wouldn't have 200 different "the real/right relegion" fighting about whom is real about it and who isn't. Where is the logic in that?
As Lotetree has proven, he hasn't really read the quran. I hope that's not the case with you. Let me cite some verses that may help jumpstart your thought processes...
548 And We have sent down to you the Scripture with truth, authenticating what is present of the Scripture and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.
More verses to look at would be 4213, 2106, 2136, 16101, 1094 if you interested in and around the same subject.
Logic starts with a premise, which regarding this subject and many others are given in the quran. I hope that you can take it from here, we all know you are a 'degree' holder in a 'logical' field.
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I am nothing like Apple Pie and Albion! But I do question scripture, all scriptures in fact. You don't thats ok. But please don't assume that others should stop questioning...
According to your many quotes in different threads, you have many a time said just what they were saying...e.g, quran is a copy...I have no qualms with what you believe, I couldn't care less. It is however highly annoying when given a threads premise, which you do not read, you still jump in with off topic rants.
Are you a spokesperson for neo Savage Carrot?
I have noticed that everytime he pops up, you do too!
Its strange....Are you a spokesperson for mel funktion Lote Tree?
I have noticed that everytime he pops up, you do too!
It's strange...
I don't see neo around, do you?!? Of course...its all relative to you, doesn't matter what empirical evidence says.
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I am nothing like Apple Pie and Albion! But I do question scripture, all scriptures in fact. You don't thats ok. But please don't assume that others should stop questioning...
According to your many quotes in different threads, you have many a time said just what they were saying...e.g, quran is a copy...I have no qualms with what you believe, I couldn't care less. It is however highly annoying when given a threads premise, which you do not read, you still jump in with off topic rants.
This is a lie and you know it. I can't believe that you stoop so low!!!! why such insecurity? I am dissapointed with you!!! Quran is a human reading like others that is most I said!!!
Are you a spokesperson for neo Savage Carrot?
I have noticed that everytime he pops up, you do too!
Its strange....Are you a spokesperson for mel funktion Lote Tree?
SC why are you using my words ?
It's like listening to an echo!!!I don't see neo around, do you?!? Of course...its all relative to you, doesn't matter what empirical evidence says.
I got you again haven't I? -)
I can see the blush on you!!!
But feel free to speak on neo's behalf. Is neo a "relative" of yours?Regards,
Regards,
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This is a lie and you know it.
I can't waste my time speaking with hypocritical bs'ers.
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Eh? Is this your brilliant understanding of the phrase and your viewpoint? /
You do realise that by telling me that you have a different understanding of it, you are partly confirming my subjectivity thesis?.
By your quotes in your posts, you too may like to jump from 'a' truth and the absolute truth like your pal, Lotetree
Man you're into labeling people. I have never met Lote Tree so how can he be my pal? Because we have mutual viewpoints?
And I never speak of THE truth, because that would be reserved for the creator....so which is it? To clarify once and for all? Is the quran the irrefutable word of God?
No. The world is. As stated in all 3 semitic books.
Is it the absolute truth? Or is it 'a' truth whatever that means, which you will have to explain if you share the same viewpoint.
the absolute truth would be with God. A truth is something that we can comprehend. e.g It is "a" truth that the church of rome is based mainly on worship of the sun. It is not "the" truth, because many people still manage to use their writ to become better people.
As Lotetree has proven, he hasn't really read the quran. I hope that's not the case with you. Let me cite some verses that may help jumpstart your thought processes...
Yeah I have read it, and I still do with much pleasure.
548 And We have sent down to you the Scripture with truth, authenticating what is present of the Scripture and superseding it.
what is present of the scripture. So God did not manage to preserve it's own scriptures and need not only to repeat itself, but even superseed it. perhaps God didn't get it right the first time ?
So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.
beutyful absolutely. We made you all different tribes, but we regret doing so. So instead of all the laws we made to each and every one of you. We now want you to become one nation instead, though we stated we didn't want to in the first place. But wait...God never change his words
More verses to look at would be 4213, 2106, 2136, 16101, 1094 if you interested in and around the same subject.
Thank you, and I mean that. I still want to learn whatever I can from as many sources as possible regarding this. Do understand what I am doing. I am not speaking against God. Nor the Qur'aan. Rather I am trying to point out that God does not protect paper, God protect his message. This can be confirmed by mere observation of people. There has always been good faithfull people on earth, even in places where evil seemed to triumph. Why is that, if the real message it is not something that anyone can "tap" into making the book's merely a guide to do so. This does not mean they are free of corruption, but that whoever read it with an honest heart will understand the point. And to me the basic point is outlined in verses like 6152-152
Logic starts with a premise, which regarding this subject and many others are given in the quran. I hope that you can take it from here, we all know you are a 'degree' holder in a 'logical' field.
No need to be snide. I stand by offering evidence to you on demand. Yes logic does start with a premise, and to me that premise is God, not paper.
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This is a lie and you know it.
I can't waste my time speaking with hypocritical bs'ers.
Perhaps you are one of them?
Regards,
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By your quotes in your posts, you too may like to jump from 'a' truth and the absolute truth like your pal, Lotetree
Man you're into labeling people. I have never met Lote Tree so how can he be my pal? Because we have mutual viewpoints?
And I never speak of THE truth, because that would be reserved for the creator.Why such insecurity Savage Carrot? You always attack people like this. Is that limit of your intelligence? Do I undermine your cherished belief in a scripture that came through a human being, is that why you find me a threat?
...so which is it? To clarify once and for all? Is the quran the irrefutable word of God?
No. The world is. As stated in all 3 semitic books.
Savage Carrot, this is the thing you need to understand. Abandon tribal thinking and see World as Gods irrefuable revelation for ALL MANKIND!
As Lotetree has proven, he hasn't really read the quran. I hope that's not the case with you. Let me cite some verses that may help jumpstart your thought processes...
Oh please stop! You always do this! Do you know where the words "Lote Tree" comes from? See surah 53, verse 14. It's a Symbolic Tree that represents the limits to all our rational thought. So please stop this nonsense of attacking people like this.
Regards,
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You do realise that by telling me that you have a different understanding of it, you are partly confirming my subjectivity thesis?.
When have I ever said perceptions are not subjective? You do realise what we have been talking about the past five pages?
Man you're into labeling people. I have never met Lote Tree so how can he be my pal? Because we have mutual viewpoints?
And I never speak of THE truth, because that would be reserved for the creator.The quran is called al haqq as well.
No.
Then we are wasting time on this thread with a specific premise. I wish you would have brought it up sooner.
Yeah I have read it, and I still do with much pleasure.
I'm glad to hear it.
what is present of the scripture. So God did not manage to preserve it's own scriptures and need not only to repeat itself, but even superseed it. perhaps God didn't get it right the first time ?
By reading the quran, we have signs that tell us that what we have is what the previous generations had, when a sign is replaced, it is with something better, not because God 'can't' preserve His words. It is a natural dynamic progression as opposed to a static form.
beutyful absolutely. We made you all different tribes, but we regret doing so. So instead of all the laws we made to each and every one of you. We now want you to become one nation instead, though we stated we didn't want to in the first place. But wait...God never change his words
Huh? where does the regret come in?And God doesn't change His way. It was the same for the previous generations.
Thank you, and I mean that. I still want to learn whatever I can from as many sources as possible regarding this. Do understand what I am doing. I am not speaking against God. Nor the Qur'aan. Rather I am trying to point out that God does not protect paper, God protect his message. This can be confirmed by mere observation of people. There has always been good faithfull people on earth, even in places where evil seemed to triumph. Why is that, if the real message it is not something that anyone can "tap" into making the book's merely a guide to do so. This does not mean they are free of corruption, but that whoever read it with an honest heart will understand the point. And to me the basic point is outlined in verses like 6152-152
I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you for sharing. Once again, it would have saved us all a lot of time if the premise was read first.
No need to be snide. I stand by offering evidence to you on demand. Yes logic does start with a premise, and to me that premise is God, not paper.
But it's okay for you to label others fiesty snidely? No matter. Thank you for your post. I hope you can start a new thread for this as it does not belong here. Many would give their thoughts on it and it would be a worthwhile endeavour. Peace.
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Why such insecurity Savage Carrot? You always attack people like this. Is that limit of your intelligence? Do I undermine your cherished belief in a scripture that came through a human being, is that why you find me a threat?
Savage Carrot, this is the thing you need to understand. Abandon tribal thinking and see World as Gods irrefuable revelation for ALL MANKIND!
Oh please stop! You always do this! Do you know where the words "Lote Tree" comes from? See surah 53, verse 14. It's a Symbolic Tree that represents the limits to all our rational thought. So please stop this nonsense of attacking people like this.He's gone stark raving mad! Is it a full moon by any chance?!?
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But it's okay for you to label others fiesty snidely? No matter. Thank you for your post. I hope you can start a new thread for this as it does not belong here. Many would give their thoughts on it and it would be a worthwhile endeavour. Peace.
I stand corrected! Thank you.
And yes, I should not have gone beyond the initial premise put forth. But I will make a thread that to some extend will explain excactly what went wrong here. Altso please do accept a sincere appology (yet again sigh) for my own snide way's, I just saw 3 fingers pointed at myself oops
Can we reboot our knowledge of eachother and try and be nicer?, because you honestly do seem like a very bright person, and this whole thread devolved into an ego fight worthy of none of it's participants, me especially.Peace
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Can we reboot our knowledge of eachother and try and be nicer?, because you honestly do seem like a very bright person, and this whole thread devolved into an ego fight worthy of none of it's participants, me especially.
Thank you for the kind comments. Rebooting is a bad idea. I believe in learning from past experiences. I think it would be better to focus on points and not personalities wink I look forward to reading your thread.
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Why such insecurity Savage Carrot? You always attack people like this. Is that limit of your intelligence? Do I undermine your cherished belief in a scripture that came through a human being, is that why you find me a threat?
Savage Carrot, this is the thing you need to understand. Abandon tribal thinking and see World as Gods irrefuable revelation for ALL MANKIND!
Oh please stop! You always do this! Do you know where the words "Lote Tree" comes from? See surah 53, verse 14. It's a Symbolic Tree that represents the limits to all our rational thought. So please stop this nonsense of attacking people like this.He's gone stark raving mad! Is it a full moon by any chance?!?
Don't flatter yourself chuthlu wink
I have studied quran for two years wink
memorized 6 chapters of it and was called a "Hafiz" -)
So yes you could say I have read the quran -)Regards,
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Study by memorization. How quaint.
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Study by memorization. How quaint.
I have studied quran for two years
memorized 6 chapters of it and was called a "Hafiz" -)
So yes you could say I have read the quran -)Brilliant piece of logical deduction from above sentences Miss Sherlock Holmes. Dr. Watson will be astounded! wink
Regards,
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Peace be upon you,
Whats going on here shock
Where the peacefulness(islam)?
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So we are not to follow blindly what you call the irrefutable word's of God`? We cannot trust God?
No. Jesus man, I keep telling you to learn your enligsh and over and over your lack of it means I have to repeat the most fundemental things. The Qur'an is the irrefutable word of Allah, and because the Qur'an says we should question it - we should. If the Qur'an was the irrefutable word of Allah and it said we should not question it - then we wouldn't be here in the first place arguing this. The fact that the Qur'an is the irrefutable word of Allah is established after reasonable verification anyway because being 'irrefutable' implies it has been penetrated by logic and reasonned arguments.
And please, please don't use yellow font - this is not a kindergarden colouring session.
At this point a definition of logic/reason would be nice. As we know for a fact that everything we sense and feel is but chemichal reaction and electrical pulses. And we know for a fact that we do not see with our eye's but the backside of our brain, and as we know that we can simulate those experiences to make people belive they experience something that is not happening at all. What can we use as a tool of measure, for this logic/reason that is trustworthy?
If you don't understand the definition of reason/logic go read up on it - it's not my job to educate you on your fundementals. As you know, I don't buy into your subjective logic bullshit so the above paragraph is a big misnomer anyway. If you don't know what logic is - that's your problem, not mine. I'm getting sick of you trying to obfuscate the topic and playing cat and mice - I've already proven to you that logic is objective, you admitted to it, and yet you go back into this crap. Don't expect any more replies if all you're going to write is drivel.
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read it again. that is excactly what it says. you just agreed with me.
Besides what is pseudo science?Light emitted from the Object, of course. Thus I did not agree with you. Learn.To.Read.
Pseudo science is what you potheads use to justify your bullshit beliefs.
prove this please. prove that the object you think create the stimuli, does exist.
LOL, more holographic universe b.s.? Sorry, like I said - I don't bother with matrixheads. Go to matrixfans.net for that, they have plenty of bullshit discussions on this crap there.
No that is not what it is saing. Try to read it again, and take you'r time. read it as many times as you need.
The word is "your"; there's no apostrophe after the "u".
Also, you're (note how I spelt it) the one who didn't understand my argument.
awww...all the scientist's working in the field of vision will be sorry to hear so. Besides. you know. Once round earth was pseude science too.
Lol. I doubt you even understand what "science" is.
this is written before the matrix. try again
No shit it was, but The Matrix perfectly puts it. It's still full of crap though.
You assume that we have been thinking for some 50.000 years? how do you know?
Way to miss the point of the argument Einstein; I could clear it up for you but I like watching you squirm so I'll leave it be and just call you an idiot for it. Idiot.
We have obsered something that would seem as absoluts. Within the time we have known of absolutes several of them have been proved false over and over again. Wich strongly imply that we are unable to truely define them, thus it is futile to waste our time with it. Im not arguing for either, but both! is it that hard to understand?
Lol, put down the weed.
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The quran asks you to use reason, which if you have read it, is abundantly clear. All your actions/thoughts etc you are responsible for. You must verify to the best of your ability and then follow. God Himself has put the quran up for verification. It gives a challenge to people to check for contradictions,
There are no contradictions in Bhagavad Gita, there are no contradictions in one of Shakepears's sonnets, there are no contradictions in Mozart piano concerto no 23 - But what does that prove? It proves nothing about Divine origin of Scripture. Scripture came through a human being and there is no way of getting around this. You either believe scripture to be God's word or you don't.
what proof of a logical text! (lmk if you need verse numbers).
What a LOGICAL conclusion! Euclids Textbook is a very logical text! What does that prove? nothing. If a text appears to be logical that is because our REASONING is tied to our LANGUAGE, there is no way of getting around this!
This is to increase capacity for logical and clear thinking in a human which helps in filtering bs like pseudo science amongst other things...
Is there such thing as FALSE SCIENCE? Science is empirical. If there is no observational data then that can't be science, can it?
Believe in it after you have ascertained to the best of your ability using rational and logical thought...
Why do you still have to believe in it if you have LOGICAL proof?
How will the believers know it is from their Lord? Using the same capacity of thought present in all humans unless they choose to follow flights of fancy.
Human capacity of thought once believed that earth was flat and was supported on a back of a giant turtle.
Human capacity to know changes continually. There is no certainty in human knowledge. As neo says our interpretation of reality is subjective. If that is the case then we will never know perhaps what objective reality is.
What we have observed while 'seeing' you post is that you are arguing for everything is subjective as per your own quotes. If we can't comprehend the full extent of reality due to our shortcomings does that mean it does not exist?
How will we know if it exists if our interpretation of reality is subjective.
Regards,
Please, put down the pot.