Death of a Christian
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Peace be upon you MQ,
While I take your point here Kyle, I think the 'might' in your statement is the operative term. This is because some Indian groups have accused the Mother Theresa mythologisation of being used to convert hindus and thus give the Roman Catholics more power in india. We simply cannot know who she was worshipping because we cant see into her heart.
Having said that, I know Christians who pray to God and just havent dealt with the theological issues. Normal ppl generally don't
I agree with your statements.
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Peace idolfree, mquran,
We simply cannot know who she was worshipping because we cant see into her heart.
The Catholic doctrine stresses the One God. It's essential part of their belief, the first. They pray to Mary and to saints but they don't worship them but God, and God is One for them. That's the doctrine.
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520 Rejecters indeed are those who have said "God is the Messiah the son of Mary." Say "Who has any power against God if He had wanted to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother, and all who are on Earth!" And to God is the sovereignty of heavens and Earth and all that is in-between; He creates what He pleases. God is capable of all things.
521 And the Jews and the Nazarenes said "We are God's children, and His loved ones." Say "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" No, you are merely humans from what He has created. He forgives whom He pleases, and He punishes whom He pleases. And to God is the sovereignty of heavens and Earth and all that is in-between, and to Him is the destiny.Damn I know I have read these verses before but its like they're brand new and fresh when I read the verse you quoted...so strong and powerful man especially the part God says if he wanted to He could destroy everyone on Earth shock cry
PEACE
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Salaamun alaikum Elena,
The Catholic doctrine stresses the One God. It's essential part of their belief, the first. They pray to Mary and to saints but they don't worship them but God, and God is One for them. That's the doctrine.
If al-haqq comes to them that God is one and they reject it, im afraid the quran counts them as kafirs.
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Peace mquarn
Salaamun alaikum Elena,
The Catholic doctrine stresses the One God. It's essential part of their belief, the first. They pray to Mary and to saints but they don't worship them but God, and God is One for them. That's the doctrine.
If al-haqq comes to them that God is one and they reject it, im afraid the quran counts them as kafirs.
no no, they don't reject that God is One, it is profoundly impressed in their mind, it is the first.
The trinity concept, the son of God concept coexist with it. It is not a contradiction for them.
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Peace Elena,
no no, they don't reject that God is One, it is profoundly impressed in their mind, it is the first.
The trinity concept, the son of God concept coexist with it. It is not a contradiction for them.
Well, thats what im saying. If the truth comes to them AND they reject it. I can't tell you if thats happened or not, its in thier hearts.
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Peace mquran,
Peace Elena,
no no, they don't reject that God is One, it is profoundly impressed in their mind, it is the first.
The trinity concept, the son of God concept coexist with it. It is not a contradiction for them.
Well, thats what im saying. If the truth comes to them AND they reject it. I can't tell you if thats happened or not, its in thier hearts.
but how could one reject the truth if it came to oneself? It is impossible. If you consider x is the truth, you are considering it is the truth, not rejecting. I am not talking about Catholics now, but in general.
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but how could one reject the truth if it came to oneself? It is impossible. If you consider x is the truth, you are considering it is the truth, not rejecting. I am not talking about Catholics now, but in general.
Oh, im speaking of the truth in the absolute sense. If 'AL-haqq', not 'haqq'. The 'al' particle there makes it absolute. So when the absolute truth comes to them and thier own inhibitions prevent them from accepting it, they are kafir.
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but how could one reject the truth if it came to oneself? It is impossible. If you consider x is the truth, you are considering it is the truth, not rejecting. I am not talking about Catholics now, but in general.
Oh, im speaking of the truth in the absolute sense. If 'AL-haqq', not 'haqq'. The 'al' particle there makes it absolute. So when the absolute truth comes to them and thier own inhibitions prevent them from accepting it, they are kafir.
say it with examples because you are speaking obscure, if you want me to get you, if not, it is ok but let me know so that I don't waste your time and mine.
what are they rejecting, what inhibitions are you talking about and why they are 'preventing' them from accept what
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Sure.
Absolute truth The truth as reality. Al-quraan is the describer of this ultimate truth.
This truth comes to all people.
When it comes to them, they either accept it or reject it.
Some people, realising the implication of this truth (that is, you need to submit to it) reject it. When they do this, they are taking other gods besides The God.
They are then , kafir.
hopes thats clear enough.
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Peace,
I can't believe that I used infinitive after a preposition. I meant "from accepting"
Clearer, but still obscure because you forget the book Quran is not part of their belief.
The other thing you call quran, the universe/everything, can't be ignored by anybody, but you were referring to the book, weren't you?
From the beginning I am talking about how is the Catholic belief, where I 'was' for years, not about my personal convictions.
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Peace to you Elena,
can't believe that I used infinitive after a preposition. I meant "from accepting"
I have no idea what that means, hehe.
Clearer, but still obscure because you forget the book Quran is not part of their belief
.I didn't. Al-quraan is just how we clarify things. The truth comes to them in a nonverbal inspiration.
The other thing you call quran, the universe/everything, can't be ignored by anybody, but you were referring to the book, weren't you?
No, 'al-kitaab' are god's functional laws in the universe. You can ignore it, but it will get you in the end. That's just how it works.
From the beginning I am talking about how is the Catholic belief, where I 'was' for years, not about my personal convictions.
Oh ok.
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Hi Nahla,
2217 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment for Allah is witness of all things.
2223 Allah will admit those who believe and work righteous deeds, to Gardens beneath which rivers flow they shall be adorned therein with bracelets of gold and pearls; and their garments there will be of silk.
2256 On that Day of Dominion will be that of Allah. He will judge between them so those who believe and work righteous deeds will be in Gardens of Delight.2269 "(Allah) will judge between you on the Day of Judgment concerning the matters in which ye differ."
958 Is not Allah the wisest of judges?Our faith is one aspect of us that will be judged. we also will be judged for our deeds and the why's, what's , etc..And remember God is the most fair.
on the day of Judgement, when God judges, it is said that it will be so fair, that all souls(humans) will see it as the right judgement.Yes. That is how it works and Allah is the most fair.
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Wow! What a response! Thank you everyone! Elena, I was a Catholic as well, and yes, ONE GOD is doctrine. I was always taught that the ONE GOD was a triune being, or 3 in one. However, I did get the nonverbal inspiration. I don't know where it came from, well, yes I do, it came from God. But nonetheless, I knew in my heart that there was something very wrong. I prayed to Mary and the saints for intercession, but I never could bring myself to believe in it. It always felt like a waste of time, and thank GOD, now I know that it was. I ate the bread and wine, and was SUPPOSED to believe it was the body and blood of Jesus, but I never could believe it in my heart. First because why would God subject Himself to such a silly ritual? and second because it never 'sanctified' me the way I was taught that it should. Another practice that was a total waste of time. So regardless of what I was taught, God showed me the Truth without books, without words, just inside my heart. After that, He gave me friends that follow the Qu'ran. Allah is all-knowing, and He leads whomsoever He pleases!
Salam,
Nahla -
How good summary Nahla! )
the part of the bread being the flesh of God and the wine being his blood was the worst. And yes, it is no symbolical, it is literal!
They are so odd things that make us forget the good parts of the doctrine, well, I guess every religion has odd, bad, and good things, but the flesh and blood thing was...( ? shock -
Wow! What a response! Thank you everyone! Elena, I was a Catholic as well, and yes, ONE GOD is doctrine. I was always taught that the ONE GOD was a triune being, or 3 in one. However, I did get the nonverbal inspiration. I don't know where it came from, well, yes I do, it came from God. But nonetheless, I knew in my heart that there was something very wrong. I prayed to Mary and the saints for intercession, but I never could bring myself to believe in it. It always felt like a waste of time, and thank GOD, now I know that it was. I ate the bread and wine, and was SUPPOSED to believe it was the body and blood of Jesus, but I never could believe it in my heart. First because why would God subject Himself to such a silly ritual? and second because it never 'sanctified' me the way I was taught that it should. Another practice that was a total waste of time. So regardless of what I was taught, God showed me the Truth without books, without words, just inside my heart. After that, He gave me friends that follow the Qu'ran. Allah is all-knowing, and He leads whomsoever He pleases!
Salam,
NahlaI can relate to your story. I was a prostestant and remember that feeling of "something wrong" oh to well. I read translation, after translation, after translation...I even strived to read an untranslated bible. It felt like something was off with the trinity idea for me. In comparison to the God of the old testament and Isa of the new, I loved and paid more attention to Isa and, although they were supposedly one and the same, something felt REALLY wrong with that in my heart. Then it came to me-before I ever picked up the qur'an-that Isa probably was just a prophet. But I had no proof of this until I began reading The Reading. Once I began to study , it was, as if, I recognized what was written. It was a very difficult transformation at the time. And, many times, I felt completely lost and abandoned once I realized Christianity may not be the absolute truth of God's plan and existance as I was told. And, of course, now I am here.
At any rate, I understand what you are trying to say about Christians serving "one God". But, undeniably, what makes a Christian a Christian is not the belief in one God, but the belief that Jesus Christ was the son of God, son of Mary, God incarnate on this earth. The only way one can be saved from hellfire is to believe in John 316-317
316 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
317 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Many Christians interpret this as Isa being an inteccessor to "save" us....hence, setting up partners. I remember clearly the times when I thought praying to Jesus's father was worthless as Jesus was the one who was doing the saving! roll Now this is not to say that those who call themselves Christians are destined for punishment (even if they were, how would we are not the ultimate Judge). Its not about what you call yourself, its about what you do. Like the reading said, all are not the same....
