status of women - as seen from The Quran
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Salam brother Ahmad
- Therefore, a woman should not be frustrated for a privilege of polygamy offered to men. This is not, for sure, at the expense of woman. Paradise is meant for both men and women, both of them are equally entitled to get what they wish for.
Agree, but the polygamy is allowed under the following condition
43. And if you fear that you cannot be just to the orphans......But if you fear you will not be fair, then only one...absolutely, and that is the message I see from Quran
peace marie
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Salaam sis Marie,
No, I don't speak of something special but rather in general.
I mean Quran don't speak about special men issues so why women must be sorted out to be something different?
Or maybe this is our tradition as humans to look at the genders differences than to the equality between them.
I wonder when that day comes when women is the same in respect as men!?
Peace Sis Maria
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Aha, sex slaves in heaven. I have more understanding now how feelings of contempt for our religion could had arisen from the infidels. B.S for me.
SwedenMajidah, does equality means treating both sexes alike in the light of biological, psychological, and physiological sameness, in addition to sameness in their roles in life? Perhaps this will tell more....
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Peace Vizard, all
you wrote
Aha, sex slaves in heaven. I have more understanding now how feelings of contempt for our religion could had arisen from the infidels. B.S for me.I totally agree. I do not believe that we will be sexual beings in afterlife. The souls counts and the souls in my eyes doesn't have male or female gender.
lk
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Salaam Vizard,
Yes I believe in God's way of equality between men and women.
Nowhere in Quran have i read that it's ok to mistreat the opposite gender.
And sexslaves oh no!!!!
In paradise the souls will be in peace if that includes sexual wellbeings hmn I dunno that.We will have to wait and see wink
Peace Sis Majidah
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hi,
- It is also mentioned in the true Hadith that the women of this worldly life have superiority over Hoor El Ein due to the acts of worship and obedience that they performed in this world. Therefore, the believing women will enter Paradise just like the believing men. If a woman had a number of husbands, she, upon entering Paradise with them, would choose among them the one with the best character and behaviour
are u implying polyandry is permitted on earth?
- It is meant for those who want it, not for every single male. Yet every Muslim man and woman who is allowed to enter Paradise is given the opportunity to get whatever he or she wants as clearly stated in the Quran and many true Hadiths of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). This means that those women who don?t want their husbands to have more could be granted this wish and desire. At the same time if the husbands of those women want to have more than them Allah is great and can satisfy each of them in the way He, the Almighty, wants.
what? roll more of what? sexual satisfaction?
- Therefore, a woman should not be frustrated for a privilege of polygamy offered to men. This is not, for sure, at the expense of woman. Paradise is meant for both men and women, both of them are equally entitled to get what they wish for.
polygamy is not permitted on earth. then why would it be in heaven?
- Allah mentions the Hoor El Ein because in most cases men pursue women and not vice versa. As for women, Allah Almighty may marry them to any of the believers in Paradise, if they did not get married during worldly life, or He may compensate them by making them feel content with their position. It is also said that Allah may grant women some kind of beauty with which they will feel that they are better than the Hoor El Ein and that they are their mistress, so they will not love anyone other than their own husbands nor will they feel jealous of the Hoor El Ein.?, but if a male is allowed in life to marry more than one with conditions, why not to marry more than one in Paradise without conditions if he is righteous?, and the same for the woman, if she was only allowed to marry only one man in life, what is the wisdom of allowing her to get done by many men in paradise? If a Muslim woman ever thinks that what she deserves then I have to tell you this Muslim woman will never see Paradise
Ridiculous! are u God or God's advisor to decide/tell who marries how many in paradise? and which women should do what?
try reading the Quran. polygamy is only mentioned in the case of man marrying mother of orphans in order to take care of them(and not exactly to satisfy his carnal insticts), and that too only becoz those days, due to the battle then, there were loads of widows and very few men. so, Quran doesnt exactly promote polygamy at large to satisfy one's carnal instincts.
the other day in news i heard an iraqi suicide bomber(14 yr old) saying he wanted to die for the sake of Allah killing innocent civilians becoz he wanted the 40 virgins that are promised in heaven. and i thought ''where did this theory of 40 virgins come from''. now i see, more people seem to carry this belief. -
hi,
Hello
are u implying polyandry is permitted on earth?
the way I see it from the Quran, is yes it is allowed as long as the other wives are widows with CHILDREN
- It is meant for those who want it, not for every single male. Yet every Muslim man and woman who is allowed to enter Paradise is given the opportunity to get whatever he or she wants as clearly stated in the Quran and many true Hadiths of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). This means that those women who don?t want their husbands to have more could be granted this wish and desire. At the same time if the husbands of those women want to have more than them Allah is great and can satisfy each of them in the way He, the Almighty, wants.
what? roll more of what? sexual satisfaction?
no i did not say sexual satisfaction
I said Allah can satisfy, NOT sexually satisfy
I see staisfaction in many more other thinks but sex, unless you see sex is the only thing that satisfy
- Therefore, a woman should not be frustrated for a privilege of polygamy offered to men. This is not, for sure, at the expense of woman. Paradise is meant for both men and women, both of them are equally entitled to get what they wish for.
polygamy is not permitted on earth. then why would it be in heaven? - Allah mentions the Hoor El Ein because in most cases men pursue women and not vice versa. As for women, Allah Almighty may marry them to any of the believers in Paradise, if they did not get married during worldly life, or He may compensate them by making them feel content with their position. It is also said that Allah may grant women some kind of beauty with which they will feel that they are better than the Hoor El Ein and that they are their mistress, so they will not love anyone other than their own husbands nor will they feel jealous of the Hoor El Ein.?, but if a male is allowed in life to marry more than one with conditions, why not to marry more than one in Paradise without conditions if he is righteous?, and the same for the woman, if she was only allowed to marry only one man in life, what is the wisdom of allowing her to get done by many men in paradise? If a Muslim woman ever thinks that what she deserves then I have to tell you this Muslim woman will never see Paradise
Ridiculous! are u God or God's advisor to decide/tell who marries how many in paradise? and which women should do what?
your comment is sarcastic and stupid and will be ignored
try reading the Quran. polygamy is only mentioned in the case of man marrying mother of orphans in order to take care of them(and not exactly to satisfy his carnal insticts), and that too only becoz those days, due to the battle then, there were loads of widows and very few men. so, Quran doesnt exactly promote polygamy at large to satisfy one's carnal instincts.
lol, are you mixed up or something?
this is what i believe in mister, so before you give me some sacrcastic comments to go and read the , Quran, you should go and read my other comments regarding polygamy
the other day in news i heard an iraqi suicide bomber(14 yr old) saying he wanted to die for the sake of Allah killing innocent civilians becoz he wanted the 40 virgins that are promised in heaven. and i thought ''where did this theory of 40 virgins come from''. now i see, more people seem to carry this belief.
another scarcastic comment, look mister, I'm totally against that crap by the confused terrorists, you should read my comment about the Quran exposing them
now mister what is your point exactly?
peace
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hi,
- It is also mentioned in the true Hadith that the women of this worldly life have superiority over Hoor El Ein due to the acts of worship and obedience that they performed in this world. Therefore, the believing women will enter Paradise just like the believing men. If a woman had a number of husbands, she, upon entering Paradise with them, would choose among them the one with the best character and behaviour
are u implying polyandry is permitted on earth?
the way I see it from the Quran, is yes it is allowed as long as the other wives are widows with CHILDREN
looks like u have misunderstood me here. polyandry is woman having many husbands.
- those women who don?t want their husbands to have more could be granted this wish and desire. At the same time if the husbands of those women want to have more than them
what? roll now, more of what?
but if a male is allowed in life to marry more than one with conditions, why not to marry more than one in Paradise without conditions if he is righteous?, and the same for the woman, if she was only allowed to marry only one man in life, what is the wisdom of allowing her to get done by many men in paradise? If a Muslim woman ever thinks that what she deserves then I have to tell you this Muslim woman will never see Paradise
Ridiculous! are u God or God's advisor to decide/tell who marries how many in paradise? and which women should do what?
your comment is sarcastic and stupid and will be ignored
i am sorry. not meant as sarcasm. but polygamy isnt exactly allowed on earth except if its the only way to protect the widow and her children. now there wont be widows needing protection of men in paradise, will they?
and so ur conclusion is stupid.try reading the Quran. polygamy is only mentioned in the case of man marrying mother of orphans in order to take care of them(and not exactly to satisfy his carnal insticts), and that too only becoz those days, due to the battle then, there were loads of widows and very few men. so, Quran doesnt exactly promote polygamy at large to satisfy one's carnal instincts.
lol, are you mixed up or something?
this is what i believe in mister, so before you give me some sacrcastic comments to go and read the , Quran, you should go and read my other comments regarding polygamypeace.
and no, i am not mixed up.
but check polygamy in Quran.the other day in news i heard an iraqi suicide bomber(14 yr old) saying he wanted to die for the sake of Allah killing innocent civilians becoz he wanted the 40 virgins that are promised in heaven. and i thought ''where did this theory of 40 virgins come from''. now i see, more people seem to carry this belief.
another scarcastic comment, look mister, I'm totally against that crap by the confused terrorists, you should read my comment about the Quran exposing them
again, no sarcasm meant. only a bit shocked. i understand u r not in favour of terrorism thats very good. but that 14 yr old boy out there who is not old enough to know his own good, believes what is being told to him- that he would get 40 virgins in heaven if he dies killing other non muslims.
now mister what is your point exactly?
my point is polygamy is not allowed in earth to satisfy carnal instincts.
and i am a female! -
hi,
Hello
looks like u have misunderstood me here. polyandry is woman having many husbands.
ok, sorry for my lack of english, no I don't believe in polyandry
i am sorry. not meant as sarcasm. but polygamy isnt exactly allowed on earth except if its the only way to protect the widow and her children. now there wont be widows needing protection of men in paradise, will they?
ok thanks, yes this is how I understand polygamy, please note my comment above is not about polygamy, it is about WHY THE QURAN MENTIONED HOOR FOR MEN AND NOT FOR WOMEN and it was on a sunni web site, I'm not a sunni btw and never been in my life, so don't get me wrong please
peace.
and no, i am not mixed up.
but check polygamy in Quran.I know it well sis
here is what I firmly believe in and according to the Quran
if a man wants to marry another woman, she must have children in desperate need and the motive must be to care for her children
and if he chooses to go ahead then he should be aware that he will never be fair between them and consequently Allah said marry only one
hence a true and 100% submitter to Allah must marry only one woman and even we need to worry not about the orphans in this case
again, no sarcasm meant. only a bit shocked. i understand u r not in favour of terrorism thats very good. but that 14 yr old boy out there who is not old enough to know his own good, believes what is being told to him- that he would get 40 virgins in heaven if he dies killing other non muslims.
I agree but I'm not a 14 years old boy rather a 40 years old man, for me I don't believe in this ahadiths about the numbers of hoor we will get, I don't care about the hoor and I'm not looking forward to have'm, I want my only wife with me in paradise if I will ever go there with her
my point is polygamy is not allowed in earth to satisfy carnal instincts.
I agree 100% with your point and sorry for being a bit rude sister
peace
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hi,
oops! were those 7 points of conclusions not urs?
were they from the sunni site?i apologise if they were not ur thoughts.
i just read it and thought some of it was ridiculous. -
hi,
oops! were those 7 points of conclusions not urs?
were they from the sunni site?i apologise if they were not ur thoughts.
i just read it and thought some of it was ridiculous.the 7 points of conclusions were not mine but the top part is all mine, I was only responding to an argument on a sunni forum
hwoever the sunni people didn't like me and they banned me
the reason was simply I was quotaing the Quran alone, they even deleted my first 5 posts which was to show what the Allah says about His wonderful Quran
it was shocking to me to be honest ,for people who call themselves devote sunni muslims and they bloody delete the words of Allah, there was nothing against the sunnah in it it was just becasue I was mentioning Allah alone in the Quran
not really sure if Allah will forgive their shirk, the Quran says it will never happen untill the Camel passes through the hole in the needle
peace
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Salam,
Very interesting subject.....are you implying that we divide wahi and decide that when ever it says men it does not mean women also?
Are you suggesting that men can not mean human beings (women included?) -
Salam,
Very interesting subject.....are you implying that we divide wahi and decide that when ever it says men it does not mean women also?
Are you suggesting that men can not mean human beings (women included?)Peace
Very good question that is also in my mind for long time now, well, i see the Quran means men and women by some verses and men by others and women by others
it will need a carefull study to find all the references in the Quran then carefully looking at its context
peace
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Salam and lol,
That could mean women have far less rules than men if that is the case.
Just something that came to mind. Something to think about. -
Peace dd, all,
I was going to post that link but dd beat me to it !! )
I will however post another link that CONVINCINGLY proves that there is NO POLYGAMY AT ALL according to the Qur'aan and that the allowance of polygamy in the case of orphans is based on a gross mistranslation of the verse (the real meaning of that verse makes perfect sense without any polygamy). If that verse indeed allows polygamy, then it contradicts the Qur'aan in many other places. Check out the article
http//www.free-minds.org/polygamy.htm
Comments on the article will be appreciated.
Regards,
Tanveer
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Peace tanveer
Good article. I had one question though that maybe we can discuss. Maybe I missed it but the author never mentioned why the verse says "two, three or four." I understood that the translation was to marry off orphans (and not marry) but why the "two, three or four?"
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Pease CavemanDoctor,
The verse DOES NOT say two, three, four. It says TWO'S, THREE'S, FOUR'S, meaning group of 2 or two at a time, group of 3 or three at a time, group of 4 or four at a time. Allah wants the guardian of the orphans to MARRY OFF the women orphans in GROUPS OF 2,3, or 4 to avoid hardship.
For example marry off four women to four men at the same time in a group wedding which will be less expensive than to marry the four women one by one in separate weddings, thus avoiding hardship. It is not common practice for one man to MARRY women in two's, three's or four's i.e. 2,3, or 4 women at the same time; however one can MARRY OFF groups of 2 or 3 or 4 women to 2 or 3 or 4 other men.
The words used in verse 43 are "mathna" meaning two's, "thulatha" meaning three's, and "ruba'a" meaning four's. The Arabic word for two is "atnain" not "mathna", for three "talata" not "thulatha", for four "arba'a" not "ruba'a".
For a detailed discussion of verse 43 please see the threads at the following links
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=46275#46275
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=46734#46734
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Pease CavemanDoctor,
The verse DOES NOT say two, three, four. It says TWO'S, THREE'S, FOUR'S, meaning group of 2 or two at a time, group of 3 or three at a time, group of 4 or four at a time. Allah wants the guardian of the orphans to MARRY OFF the women orphans in GROUPS OF 2,3, or 4 to avoid hardship.
For example marry off four women to four men at the same time in a group wedding which will be less expensive than to marry the four women one by one in separate weddings, thus avoiding hardship. It is not common practice for one man to MARRY women in two's, three's or four's i.e. 2,3, or 4 women at the same time; however one can MARRY OFF groups of 2 or 3 or 4 women to 2 or 3 or 4 other men.
The words used in verse 43 are "mathna" meaning two's, "thulatha" meaning three's, and "ruba'a" meaning four's. The Arabic word for two is "atnain" not "mathna", for three "talata" not "thulatha", for four "arba'a" not "ruba'a".
For a detailed discussion of verse 43 please see the threads at the following links
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=46275#46275
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=46734#46734
Peace tanveer
Thanks for all the help and elucidation. I feel my understanding is more complete now. I still have one logical question about the language.
Looking at 44, we see
44 And if you fear you can?t do justice to the orphans, then marry off the women (orphans) who have agreed with you to by twos, by threes and by fours. But if you fear that you will be unfair then (marry off) by one or what your right hand possessed as this is better than getting into hardship.
So since it doesnt use the word two, three, and four, but rather twos, threes, and fours, it is clear that it means in multiples of that as in a group. That much is clear. But the verse follows that up with "but if you fear that you will be unfair then by one." This is not yet computing in my head clearly. It might be something simple that I'm just missing. What's a scenario would this come into play? If I'm unfair about what? About marrying them off in multiples? I guess I'm asking why marrying them off one by one would be more fair? Maybe cause it would make each orphan feel more special?
Whatever the answer, I think it should be tied into "or what your right hand possessed" and "as this is better than getting into hardship."
Peace.
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Peace CavemanDoctor,
But the verse follows that up with "but if you fear that you will be unfair then by one." This is not yet computing in my head clearly. It might be something simple that I'm just missing. What's a scenario would this come into play? If I'm unfair about what? About marrying them off in multiples? I guess I'm asking why marrying them off one by one would be more fair? Maybe cause it would make each orphan feel more special?
I agree with you. Every person is different, and one orphan woman might think that her wedding is not that special in a group setting and that you are being unfair to her by marrying her off in a group, or she does not wish to be married off in a group wedding but wishes to be married off by herself. Then if you marry off only her by herself and the remaining orphans in a group that would be unfair by not treating all of them equally. Also if you marry off one of the orphans by herself and the remaining in a group, the per capita expense of wedding will be more for the single wedding than the group wedding and the other orphans might perceive that you are being unfair by spending more money on one orphan than on the others, or that you are treating one orphan more special than the others combined. In that case marry them off one by one to prevent unfairness.