Freedom of Expression curtailed!
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Any future attacks or issues or insults will be dealt with harshly and severely
Peace,
I am irritated by this dictate, it is like an ultimatom of a police state, not a discussion forum. This is exactly what I was referring to when I said I don't like the idea of delegating authority upwards, it inevitably turns arrogant and becomes corrupt. The standard is already in the doghouse as some are claiming unfair treatment which tempts me to look into their claim seriously and topple this lousy authority!
Instead of exercising self restraint we have a so called "authority" to empose it. What a lousy deal!
Btw This is not that I don't resent bad language or attacks but more of a resentment of self emposed authoritarianism and how the contributors to this forum are looked on. This is an admission that we are unable to control ourselves so we need someone to empose this authority.
There are several people in the thread that backed self exercised restraint but this was ignored in totality! Maybe some are still struggling to step up outside the realms of authoritarianism and dictate to which their minds were conditioned for so long, and they lapse!
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Peace Zein,
I don't see what your comment has to do with what I said other than a speculation on your part of ones hidden opinions on the matter.
I am very disappointed and begining to think I am right in not wanting an elite group to be the ultimate arbitrer in discussions in each and every case except a few.
Have a nice day!
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This is an admission that we are unable to control ourselves so we need someone to empose this authority.
This is exactly right.
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Dear Ash Shura,
I am irritated by this dictate, it is like an ultimatom of a police state, not a discussion forum. This is exactly what I was referring to when I said I don't like the idea of delegating authority upwards, it inevitably turns arrogant and becomes corrupt. The standard is already in the doghouse as some are claiming unfair treatment which tempts me to look into their claim seriously and topple this lousy authority!
How often is this 'authority' that so disturbs you excersized on this forum?
Neither I nor any of the mods nor admin have the time, mood, or pateince to act as god and make the forum behave as we would like...However, when the forum does get out of control (this happens once in a while) and when the decent people who come to learn and debate find no room or place for them, then we have an obligation to correct what has gone wrong in the most transparent and direct way possible.
Would you like to see the forum become a bickering ground and a place for the trading of insults and accusations as it has recently become?
That is ultimately what happens when 'freedom' is allowed to reign without regulation.
Finally, if people were to uphold the principles not of this forum, but of the Scripture (do not call others names, do not backbite, do not say bad things, etc.), then none of these issues would be happening (many talk the talk, but few walk the walk).
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Hi Ash Shuura,
Any future attacks or issues or insults will be dealt with harshly and severely
I am irritated by this dictate, it is like an ultimatom of a police state, not a discussion forum. This is exactly what I was referring to when I said I don't like the idea of delegating authority upwards, it inevitably turns arrogant and becomes corrupt. The standard is already in the doghouse as some are claiming unfair treatment which tempts me to look into their claim seriously and topple this lousy authority!
Peace guy!
Dont we need police in our communities for our safety?whats wrong with policing?
the administrator and moderators would be at wrong if they behave like rulers or dictators. but policing is very necessary to maintain some order else this forum will end up becoming an absolute crap.
and dont rely on everyone participating here to behave well if there were no rules. we are talking of humans here, and there are all kinds!so, we definitely need some policing!
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How often is this 'authority' that so disturbs you excersized on this forum?
...
Would you like to see the forum become a bickering ground and a place for the trading of insults and accusations as it has recently become?That is ultimately what happens when 'freedom' is allowed to reign without regulation.
Peace Layth,
Upto now I felt the balance was about right. However, this statement of yours was quite aggressive and seems to imply a policy change.
I don't oppose authority all together, though I feel it should kept to a minimum. You should allow me to have it out with someone and then let me bridge our differences. Only when it becomes pervasive a control measure would be justified.
All in my opinion, but that statement did annoy me at the time...
Peace
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Dear Ash Shura,
Upto now I felt the balance was about right. However, this statement of yours was quite aggressive and seems to imply a policy change.
There is no policy change that has occured, only perhaps a more strict desire to enforce a policy that already is in-place (but which due to the level of maturity on this forum most times it is put aside).
My words may be a eflection of my mood/frustration with having to deal with such trivial issues and should not be taken with any offence...If I have offended, then I do appologize.
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This is the most open Forum on internet and I know that because had discussions on various forums where they form groups. Moderators on other forums like those members who do agree with them and the ones who do not agree get banned. I do not agree on all the issues with Lyath or as a matter of fact with Moderators but they are the most people which extreme tolerance.
In my opinion this is the most open Islamic forum on internet where I have a right to disagree with Lyath and still be the member. Moderators Admin are doing the excellent job in my opinion.
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My words may be a eflection of my mood/frustration with having to deal with such trivial issues and should not be taken with any offence
Peace Layth,
Fair enough, I appreciate your candidness.
Peace be upon you
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Peace KGB, ALL,
You stated
In my opinion this is the most open Islamic forum on internet where I have a right to disagree with Lyath and still be the member. Moderators Admin are doing the excellent job in my opinion.
Well said, bro. I agree completely.
Peace,
Tay -
I am irritated by this dictate, it is like an ultimatom of a police state, not a discussion forum. This is exactly what I was referring to when I said I don't like the idea of delegating authority upwards, it inevitably turns arrogant and becomes corrupt. The standard is already in the doghouse as some are claiming unfair treatment which tempts me to look into their claim seriously and topple this lousy authority!
Instead of exercising self restraint we have a so called "authority" to empose it. What a lousy deal!
Peace,
While I have arrived late to give my view on this; my impression is that this toughening up is exactly the type of secondary gain a troll would be delighted at.
It sets up the tantalising situation where the troll can now continue their old methods attempting to lure people into situations where the authorities may need to apply their strict rulings.
If a troll had been banned twice before, for example, then this would be an ideal form of revenge upon the authorities; because they've been instrumental in changing the structure and running of the forum. This is a victory for the troll.
Just like the curtailing of civil liberties by zealous legislation to combat terrorism are actually victories to the terrorists and great losses to the innocent public.
If you've identified the grub that is bringing down the tree then it's far better to extract and eject the grub, than to try spraying the whole tree and perhaps killing it in the process together with the grub.
Regards.
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Peace Oben,
I just wanted to know what your suggestions are for what steps to be taken (your point of view)? I mean, in another thread you said banning would be counterproductive now. So, what should be done? I think Layth and the others are trying to take a middle road that while won't satisfy everyone, will not completely disappoint either...
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Peace Oben,
I just wanted to know what your suggestions are for what steps to be taken (your point of view)? I mean, in another thread you said banning would be counterproductive now. So, what should be done? I think Layth and the others are trying to take a middle road that while won't satisfy everyone, will not completely disappoint either...
Peace Nadia,
I wrote that it was probably counterproductive and may send an unclear message.
The reason is that it turns out the person in question had the tacit approval of the administrator to be on the board - ie. the posting by a previously banned member was happening with the consent of the administrator (re-instatement for being open/confessing).
It opens the door for others who are banned to now come in with a different identity - post reasonably for a time and then confess to the administrator who will be obliged to forgive them - since a person with 2 bannings is able to be forgiven afterall, why shouldn't they be?
The back door is wide open in other words. Equal treatment demands that this is so.
So banning this individual is probably going to be ineffective anyway. They'll find a way back on somehow.
Regards.
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Peace Oben,
Yes, I can understand your point of view now. I still can't fathom the reasoning there. The implications, as you note, are kinda worrisome. Maybe I don't know the whole story I guess. I think at least two individuals have left due to this ruckus, and I'm saddened by the loss. I hope things go smoothly now, I suppose thats the best that can be said at the moment. I really care for this forum, some very enlightening discussions have taken place here and I wouldn't want it to go the way of some other forums I've known, where there is extreme prejudice and/or excessive censorship.
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Peace,
Regretfully and a pity to witness such revolting and uncanny posts by few members who seem to have teamed up in rebellious mode bearing insults, lies, character assassinations, irrelevant exposure, foul-mouthed and finally blaming and pushing their limits to ban another forum ?muslim? member out of sheer vanity, resentment, incompetence and weaknesses that they themselves demonstrate. In light of the Quran, such are the ones called for as hypocrites, deceivers and wrong doers, hence their own exposure.
Priest_Bokmie (aka Dhulqarnain) has been on this forum for quite some time, significantly and effectively participating with the intention to study the Quran thoroughly as it should be, without an agenda or mindset of a cult/religion, unlike many of his confused and resentful opponents here. I can very well understand his repetitious posts, and that is due to his irrefutable/unanswered posts to several others on the same lines and perhaps at the same time. Only when his opponents are driven to ?edges of cliff? and challenged and when they backfire with personal attacks, that is when Dhulqarnain becomes cautiously defensive.
You folks (Jaxal, Nadia and specially "truth" and Ahmed) have neither complied to the forum rules nor taken into account any moral and ethical standards to debate/discuss matters out yourselves. The essence of learning to understand the Quran is not via zealous minds. I believe a wise decision has already been made by Layth, hence stop grumbling and move on.
Dhul had re-entered the forum under a false handle/identity due to his username and IP being previously banned; however, there was no need for him to come forth and expose his identity (which he did) and therefore his previous ban was lifted due to this act of openess.
What has passed has passed and I would invite all members to begin a new page.
With regards to the action to be taken in this particular case...
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All threads of a repetitive nature will be locked in accordance with the forum rules.
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All verbal abuses/insults/attacks that have been made by or against Dhul are requested to stop immediatly (with no action to be taken by the Mods).
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Any future attacks or issues or insults will be dealt with harshly and severely (that includes banning anyone, including Dhul).
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PEACE, LAYTH,
truth, still won't let it go...
truth While I have arrived late to give my view on this; my impression is that this toughening up is exactly the type of secondary gain a troll would be delighted at. It sets up the tantalising situation where the troll can now continue their old methods attempting to lure people into situations where the authorities may need to apply their strict rulings. If a troll had been banned twice before, for example, then this would be an ideal form of revenge upon the authorities; because they've been instrumental in changing the structure and running of the forum. This is a victory for the troll. If you've identified the grub that is bringing down the tree then it's far better to extract and eject the grub, than to try spraying the whole tree and perhaps killing it in the process together with the grub.
truth And this demonstrates exactly how the offending person can take control of the forum and why the promise to harshly implement the rules is a victory for the troublemaker.
Through appeasement, this sort of nonsense is allowed to happen and the admins effectively end up becoming the pawns, of the initial cause of the problem.
I have respected this forum chiefly because of its overall very fair approach to moderation and banishment of members. That is precisely why a ban that has been applied has always come after serious and repeated breeches of rules. A ban was not whimsical or temporary.
A ban on this forum in my view was something that had to be earned decisively. There's only a handful of people that have needed this most severe form of censure. There's only one who's gotten it twice, and is still here to speak out against others and even become arrogant and empowered enough to call for their banishment.
No single person is important enough that they should be allowed to interfere and cause the loss of multiple other contributors on multiple occasions. What I have warned about above is happening in front of your very eyes.
truthDHULQARNANE has shamefully added the text in blue which was posted AFTERWARDS in RESPONSE to the very post HE made, to falsely create the impression that I had posted it earlier!
And that I am not letting it go (in red) which he also added later to create a false case against me!
You can see the type of deception and tactics from this example. This is abhorrent and shows the lengths he will go to.
Surely everyone can see this is falsehood and that I have been wronged here. It shows patently how DHULQARNANE manipulates things.
Surely this can't be tolerated? Surely this sort of manipulation is wrong and PROVES conclusively the type of person and the lengths they'll go to.
Layth, you posted the following on another thread
Dhul had re-entered the forum under a false handle/identity due to his username and IP being previously banned; however, there was no need for him to come forth and expose his identity (which he did) and therefore his previous ban was lifted due to this act of openess.
What has passed has passed and I would invite all members to begin a new page.With regards to the action to be taken in this particular case...
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All verbal abuses/insults/attacks that have been made by or against Dhul are requested to stop immediatly (with no action to be taken by the Mods).
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Any future attacks or issues or insults will be dealt with harshly and severely (that includes banning anyone, including Dhul).
truth, in his above comments, has flagrantly disregarded your order to stop attacking me. He, of course, will lament that he isn't referring to me, but we know that is pure baloney and that he is clearly and umistakeably alluding to me. He, in recent posts, has referred to me as a troll , the individual who was banned, and that I should be ejected from this forum, so, we know exactly to whom he is referring. Then, not satisfied with attacking me, he nows wants to insidiously suggest that, because you have shown me liency and not banned me, that I have avenged myself on the authorities and have won some victory. His sole mission here at Free-Minds, is not to engage in debate in order to gain better understanding of the Deen of Allah, but to continue to attempt to smear me and prejudice staff and members against me. He has used the analogies of ape and dog in regard to me and now grub and, despite your statement that I will not be banned, he continues to ask that I be ejected. In addition, he now wants to play on the resentment that some of the mods have for me, in the wake of some of our debates, by suggesting that I have won some vengeful victory over them.
What this individual is forgetting or is ignorant of or just outright rejects is that, you can ban and re-instate anyone you wish and he resents that and, that I've been allowed back. He wants to hold my feet to fire for coming back, yet, when ordered to comply with your order to stop with the personal attacks, he chooses to break that rule/order...repeatedly. It is plain that he has no respect for anyone or any rules.
Why is this individual being allowed to continue to attack me, flagrantly disregard the forum rules/your direct order, and spread obvious divisiveness and poison here?
I think you will agree that, had I posted those inciteful comments, in the wake of your explicit order not to, the next time I clicked on the forum, it would have read---"You have been banned from this forum..."
Peace.
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savage_carrot,
I see what you're all about.
