What is a jinn ?
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Peace Ahmed,
Good morning bro
Please note I have created another thread to discuss the issue of the creation of man (with or without Adam)
Sure I will have a look
This is a good remark, this will give me the opportunity to show that there are something very special with the jinns.
In , God said he has created the ins and the jinn only to serve him.
Why did God forget the chickens ?Thanks bro, it was a bit of a funny comment as I needed to laugh to counter the frustration, now it seems to me that you totally misunderstood Allah when He said that ?He created the Jinns and Ins but to worship Him? 5156
Bro please understand this simple fact, these two races were only mentioned because they are the only two races that have bloody freewill and consequently they will be the only two races that must give account and consequently they are the only two races that will be held accountable
How come you missed that bro?
Now the chickens are doing exactly what Allah forced them to do which is being eaten by us, do you love chickens by the way bro?
Also the earth is doing exactly what Allah forced it to do, no wonder you read a verse like this in the Quran
And He has made subservient to you whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth, all, from Himself; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect.
(13)
-> See, everything in the heaven and earth else but the Jinns and Ins is ?Musakhar to us?, i.e. everything other than the Ins and Jinns truly worship Allah, unlike the Ins and Jinns
Now Allah told us that He is the Rub of Easts and Wests, would the easts and wests be a class of humans?
Allah also told us the He is the ?Rub of Al Sharra?, which is a star as far as I know but for you would Al Sharaa be a class of humans?
And that He is the Lord of the Sirius;(49)
Well, the response in this verse
And We have committed to Hell many Jinn and humans; they had hearts with which they did not comprehend, and they had eyes with which they did not see, and they had ears with which they did not hear. They are like cattle; no, they are even more astray. These are the unaware ones.
In this verse, we learn again that many of the jinn and the ins will go to hell. Again, God forgot to tell us about the fate of the chickens !
Haha bro
Why Allah punish the chicken when he gave them no freewill? A good question for you mate
Why ?
Simply because only the ins and the jinn have the possibility of rejecting God?s message. Only these 2 kind of beings can do that, simply because they are both humans, endowed with free will.Haha again, you just answered yourself, do you mean because only the ins and jinn have freewill and will be held accountable?
Now to say that then both are humans is very laughable bro, did Allah said that in the Quran that both are humans, Or you are making this up?, why Allah always differentiated between the Ins and Jinns?
Now you have not answered an important question, how Allah created the leaders before the ordinary humans?
And if We had wished, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me has taken effect, that I will fill Hell with Jinn and humans all together.
This verse confirms it the jinn and ins both have a soul, to which guidance can be sent. The chicken are never said to have a soul.
So what if both have a soul, this does not make them the same, how silly is this argument bro, well the chicken also has a soul would that make it a human?
How about Allah bro, does He have a soul?
?O you tribes of Jinn and humans, did not messengers come to you from amongst you and relate to you My revelations, and warn you of the meeting of this Day??
Again, we can notice that the unfortunate chickens were never sent chicken messengers...
Why Allah sends a checken messenger to them while they have no freewill?
Do you know what the job of a messenger is exactly?, if you know then I?m sure you will conclude that the chicken race does not need chicken messengers
Alas for them, there was but human messengers, sent to human people (both leaders and commoners).
Peace
Sorry?
Salam
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Peace JM, all
To expose the link between "the sun, efficient farming and the leaders of chiefdoms", we should recall that in the ancient times, the simplest way to know seasons was the position of the sun rise across the year. Indeed, leaders had acquired this knowledge from some intuiters (commonly known as "prophets", and were aware of the cyclic aspect of nature's phenomena.
When you have a tool to know when the season of rain would start, you know when you have to plant the seeds. Thus tunning each operation of farming with each corresponding season, and increasing the efficiency.
The corrupt leaders used this knowledge to dupe the commeners, to make them believe that they had some sort of power over the force of nature, they could predict the rain, the harvest time... The commoners were amazed by this faculty and thus gave their leaders a status of demi gods.
And then a religion was built around the sun, the prime tool of calendar, and the leaders, who would ask any favors from the commoners.
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In , God said he has created the ins and the jinn only to serve him.
Why did God forget the chickens ?Bro please understand this simple fact, these two races were only mentioned because they are the only two races that have bloody freewill and consequently they will be the only two races that must give account and consequently they are the only two races that will be held accountable
Peace
We can agree on that, except on the term ?race?. You think the jinn and the ins are 2 races, when I think there are 2 classes of people.
And He has made subservient to you whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth, all, from Himself; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect.
-> See, everything in the heaven and earth else but the Jinns and Ins is ?Musakhar to us?, i.e. everything other than the Ins and Jinns truly worship Allah, unlike the Ins and Jinns
Yes, so, the ins as well as the jinn are included in the expression ?people who think? of this verse.
?O you tribes of Jinn and humans, did not messengers come to you from amongst you and relate to you My revelations, and warn you of the meeting of this Day??
Alas for them, there was but human messengers, sent to human people (both leaders and commoners).
Sorry?
Salam
My point is that there is no jinn (in the sense of hidden being) messenger mentioned in the Quran, while in this verse, it is said that there are messengers among ins and jinn.
Please also note that the term mashar is very badly translated by the word ?tribe?. A mashar is a community whose affair is one and the same. This implies that the jinn and the ins used to live in a single community.
See the explanation of this verse here http//www.muslim.org/english-quran/ch006-e.pdf
Peace
PS Please be as succinct and straight to the point as possible, so that I have time to reply to all your refutations.
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Peace
We can agree on that, except on the term race. You think the jinn and the ins are 2 races, when I think there are 2 classes of people.
Well I agree on that except the term 2 classes of people, because Allah is not going to play hide and seek with us and I mean by seek is seeking the truth, so Allah is not going to hide this truth on us, He clearly specified that the Ins are different to the Jinn except in the subject of worshipping Allah by choice, now it is really silly and dumb to just use the only similarity between the two to conclude that the two are from the same race while ALLAH WAS CLEAR THAT THEY ARE TWO DIGFERNT RACES, He always referred to them as two entities as well other things that those Jinn can do while humans can?t , in addition that they can see us and we can?t see them, how the hell you conclude that the two are the same?, this is ridiculous bro
Yes, so, the ins as well as the jinn are included in the expression people who think of this verse.
I don?t really get what you mean by the above
My point is that there is no jinn (in the sense of hidden being) messenger mentioned in the Quran,
I agree the Jinn are hidden ?The quran clearly told us that about them, what?s new info you have added exactly by calling them hidden?
while in this verse, it is said that there are messengers among ins and jinn.
Ok but what that has to do with the Jinn being the same as Ins?, the verse clearly differentiate between the Ins and Jinn so it contradicts you more than it supports you, how about all the verses that I posted or you are going to turn a blind eye on?m?
Please also note that the term mashar is very badly translated by the word tribe. A mashar is a community whose affair is one and the same.
That is right both have free will and Allah must send messengers to both from them, i.e. the verse indicates that Allah sent jinn messengers to the Jinns Mashar
You are just running around trying to find any logic even if flawed to somehow manipulate it to support you non sensible claim
This implies that the jinn and the ins used to live in a single community.
Haha, this implies that you made this up and surely confirms my last senstence that you manipulate it regardless of logic to support you non sensibvle claim
Does the verse say they lived in the same community? NO, And even if it did, did the Quran tell us that some of the Ins will be able to communicate with the Jinns,?, it did,, now isn?t both are living on the same bloody earth?, yes, so what is your point exactly?
See the explanation of this verse here http//www.muslim.org/english-quran/ch006-e.pdf
Peace
Thank you bro, but I do understand it in ikts original language, I will be stupid if I read some silly and non sensible English comments by some Rockies while I?m a native and experienced Arabic speaker
PS Please be as succinct and straight to the point as possible, so that I have time to reply to all your refutations.
well, I hope you do reply to the verses I posted so far and replace the Jinn with the hidden and see if it makes sense to a child
now let me ask you, hidden is an adjective, i.e. it needs something to describe as hidden
hidden alone is stupid, non sensible and does not make sense, do you agree?
Well
I can say a hidden secret, a hidden man, a hidden pen, but what the hell is hidden only?
Can I ask you what is exactly that is hidden
Please don?t tell me that you don?t know because it is hidden, haha
Cheers
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Please also note that the term mashar is very badly translated by the word ?tribe?. A mashar is a community whose affair is one and the same.
That is right both have free will and Allah must send messengers to both from them, i.e. the verse indicates that Allah sent jinn messengers to the Jinns Mashar
You are just running around trying to find any logic even if flawed to somehow manipulate it to support you non sensible claim
Peace Ahmed,
Please don?t rush in reading and in replying to me. Fond the second time, you have completely missed my point.
And please take some time to read the links I give you. This will help you understand my stance, and will save your time and mine.Well, my point is perfectly explained here
http//www.muslim.org/english-quran/ch006-e.pdfPlease have a look at the comment 130a.
Looking forward to your comments
Peace
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Now it?s getting serious for those Muslims
12- And to Solomon (We made) the Wind (obedient) Its early morning (stride) was a month's (journey), and its evening (stride) was a month's (journey); and We made a Font of molten brass to flow for him; and there were Jinns that worked in front of him, by the leave of his Lord, and if any of them turned aside from our command, We made him taste of the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.
13- They worked for him as he desired, (making) arches, images, basons as large as reservoirs, and (cooking) cauldrons fixed (in their places) "Work ye, sons of David, with thanks! but few of My servants are grateful!"
14- Then, when We decreed (Solomon's) death, nothing showed them his death except a little worm of the earth, which kept (slowly) gnawing away at his staff so when he fell down, the Jinns saw plainly that if they had known the unseen, they would not have tarried in the humiliating Penalty (of their Task).
-> So Allah has forced the human leaders ?The Jinns? to work for another human leader ?Solomon?, I suppose to be another Jinn ?wasn?t he a human leader??
Yes, and I see no problem with that.
See my earlier post
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg93519#msg93519-> Now this is funny why the humans leaders are professional in (making) arches, images, basons as large as reservoirs, and (cooking) cauldrons fixed (in their places), I thought most of them sits on their backs doing nothing but ripping off their people?
Maybe these jinn were the chiefs of the ordinary people who did that.
Anyway, what would be really funny is to imagine all this work done by invisible beings.
-> Finally, why Allah flags the human leaders that they can?t know the unseen? , the Jinns saw plainly that if they had known the unseen, they would not have tarried in the humiliating Penalty (of their Task)., yet I wonder why Allah was humiliating the human leaders for the sake of another human leader
I don?t understand what the problem is.
Anyway, assuming the jinn are invisible beings, does the statement that they can?t know the unseen really make sense?
Peace
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Here is another problem for them
39- Said an 'Ifrit, of the Jinns "I will bring it to thee before thou rise from thy council indeed I have full strength for the purpose, and may be trusted."
40- Said one who had knowledge of the Book "I will bring it to thee within the twinkling of an eye!" Then when (Solomon) saw it placed firmly before him, he said "This is by the Grace of my Lord!- to test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful! and if any is grateful, truly his gratitude is (a gain) for his own soul; but if any is ungrateful, truly my Lord is Free of all Needs, Supreme in Honour !"
(39)
(40)-> We read in 2739 ?Ifrit of the Jinns?, now the advocates of new illogical understanding need to explain to us what is ?Ifrit of the Jinn?? is it a title of the Human Leaders?, if they somehow mange to solve that, then they will be cornered with this one, why that Ifrit of the human leaders can bring the Queen of Sheba throne in a matter of seconds from miles away? ? Said an 'Ifrit, of the Jinns "I will bring it to thee before thou rise from thy council indeed I have full strength for the purpose, and may be trusted.?
-> And just to make it harder for those advocates, let me ask them this question whom verse 2740 is talking about?, is it another Ifrit of the human leader who will bring the throne in shorter time than the first Ifrit of the human leaders? If No, then whom is it? and regardless if No or Yes how that entity will being the throne ion shorter time than the first Ifrit of the Jinns ? Said one who had knowledge of the Book "I will bring it to thee within the twinkling of an eye!", , don?t ever dare anyone and say this is a metaphor, because the throne was brought for real ?Then when (Solomon) saw it placed firmly before him, , he said "This is by the Grace of my Lord!- to test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful! and if any is grateful, truly his gratitude is (a gain) for his own soul; but if any is ungrateful, truly my Lord is Free of all Needs, Supreme in Honour !?
Peace Ahmed,
The possible meanings of ifrit are
- one strong and powerful
- sharp, vigourous and effective in an affair
The possible meanings of tarf are
- a glance a noble man
- a government revenue
- an envoy from yemen
The ususal translation of tarf in is ?glance?, but, in this context, ?envoy from Yemen? seems far better.
In , Salomon asks his commanders to bring the throne.
In , a strong and powerful (ifrit) commander (jinn) says he can bring it before he strikes his camp.
In , another commander says he can bring it before the envoy from Yemen (tarf) returns to Salomon (we know from the preceding verses that an envoy had been sent to the queen Sheba, who lived in Yemen).See http//www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=1975®ion=E1&CR=
http//www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=1976®ion=E1(Please check out these links before asking me any question, so as to make yourself sure you have comprehended my interpretation).
In the verse , translating jinn by invisible beings would make absolutely no sense. Why would an invisible being respond to a request made to the commanders?
Peace
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Jinn according to M. Ali
See http//aaiil.org/text/books/mali/religionislam/angels/angels.djvu
Pages 142 to 151
And especially pages 144 to 147 for the chapter "The word Jinn as applied to men" very, very interesting...To download the djvu plug-in http//www.lizardtech.com/download/dl_options.php?page=plugins
Dear /JM/
Thank you for this link. It is indeed a good discussion especially the pages you mention. Fantastic in fact.
I'm more convinced than ever of the fact that 'jinn' is a description of humans and human nature and accepting that the jinn are anything but that is illogical.
Unfortunately the discussion in another thread has diverged due to 'bombing' of the thread with material unrelated to the topic; but your ideas and source materials have been very good reading.
Peace.
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Jinn according to M. Ali
See http//aaiil.org/text/books/mali/religionislam/angels/angels.djvu
Pages 142 to 151
And especially pages 144 to 147 for the chapter "The word Jinn as applied to men" very, very interesting...To download the djvu plug-in http//www.lizardtech.com/download/dl_options.php?page=plugins
Dear /JM/
Thank you for this link. It is indeed a good discussion especially the pages you mention. Fantastic in fact.
I'm more convinced than ever of the fact that 'jinn' is a description of humans and human nature and accepting that the jinn are anything but that is illogical.
Unfortunately the discussion in another thread has diverged due to 'bombing' of the thread with material unrelated to the topic; but your ideas and source materials have been very good reading.
Peace.
I am glad this thread has been appreciated by at least one person.
I you find a verse which seems hard to explain with the ?jinn=chiefs? paradigm, feel free to bring it.
Peace
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Peace
If we consider Jinns as leaders, is the word jinn referring to a title
or is it referring to a clan/group ?
I mean, will someone be always a jinn once they are a jinn/leader
Or their position can vary between jinn and man.Also, I still can not figure out the connection between ?created by fire?
and leaders? -
Peace
If we consider Jinns as leaders, is the word jinn referring to a title
or is it referring to a clan/group ?
I mean, will someone be always a jinn once they are a jinn/leader
Or their position can vary between jinn and man.Also, I still can not figure out the connection between ?created by fire?
and leaders?The created from "fire" (immaterial) in 1527 is a reference to "jinn" as being "human nature" prior to the creation of flesh from "clay" (material).
Peace.
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My point is that there is no jinn (in the sense of hidden being) messenger mentioned in the Quran, while in this verse, it is said that there are messengers among ins and jinn.
Peace,
Furthermore it should be obvious from chapter 72 that "jinn" are listening to the reading from a human messenger!
A clear sign that they are one and the same being.
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in 1527 is a reference to "jinn" as being "human nature" prior to the creation of flesh from "clay" (material).
What you said above is total manipilation and I will consider it a Lie unless you back it off, now don't bring new materials, here is 1526-27 and again the humans were diffrentiated from the Jinn, Itqi Allah Oben
(26)
(27)
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do you realize what you just said?
LOL
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Peace
If we consider Jinns as leaders, is the word jinn referring to a title
or is it referring to a clan/group ?
I mean, will someone be always a jinn once they are a jinn/leader
Or their position can vary between jinn and man.Also, I still can not figure out the connection between ?created by fire?
and leaders?The created from "fire" (immaterial) in 1527 is a reference to "jinn" as being "human nature" prior to the creation of flesh from "clay" (material).
Peace.
Peace
Thanks for trying to explain can you explain the first part also.
How do we connect, Iblis refusing to prostrate to Adam since
he was created from clay but Iblis being Jinn and having
?human nature? according to you. What was the problem between clay and fire.
Can you please explain this in detail because it is bit confusing right now.Do you think there is a connection between names Iblis and Ifrit ?
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If we consider Jinns as leaders, is the word jinn referring to a title
or is it referring to a clan/group ?
I mean, will someone be always a jinn once they are a jinn/leader
Or their position can vary between jinn and man.To understand it, you have to represent in your mind the life in a chiefdom community.
See my 2 previous posts
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg93519#msg93519
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg93521#msg93521Also, I still can not figure out the connection between ?created by fire?
and leaders?See http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg93535#msg93535
Peace
How do we connect, Iblis refusing to prostrate to Adam since
he was created from clay but Iblis being Jinn and having
?human nature? according to you. What was the problem between clay and fire.
Can you please explain this in detail because it is bit confusing right now.See the parallel between these 3 sequences
He said ?O Iblis, what is the matter that you are not with those who have submitted?? He said ?I am not to submit to a human You have created from a hardened clay.? He said ?Exit from here, you are cast out.?
Except Iblis; he turned arrogant, and became one of the rejecters. He said ?O Satan, what prevented you from submitting to what I have created by My hands? Are you too arrogant? Or are you one of those exalted??He said ?I am better than he; You created me from fire, and created him from clay.?
He said ?What has prevented you from submitting when I have ordered you?? He said ?I am far better than him, You created me from fire and created him from clay!?
That?s why I think the fire is a symbol of the fiery (arrogant, overproud) mindset of Iblis, as well as the clay is a symbol of the humility and malleability mindset of Adam.
In these chiefdom communities, there were 2 class of people the chiefs, and the commoners. The chiefs were profiting of the commoners and misleading them in idolatry.
Sometimes, a messenger came to them, announcing message of God. Very often, the leaders refused the message of God, and tried to mislead the commoners, claiming that the messenger is a liar, etc?This pattern can be found at many places in the quran
The leaders who were arrogant from among his people said to those who were weak and believed from amongst them ?How do you know that Saleh was sent from his Lord?? They said ?We believe in what he has been sent with.? Those who were arrogant said ?In that which you believe, we reject!?
Then, after them, We sent Moses and Aaron with Our signs to Pharaoh and his leaders, but they turned arrogant, they were a criminal people.
And they appeared before God, all of them. And the weak ones said to those who were arrogant ?We were following you, so will you avail us anything from God?s retribution?? They said ?If God had guided us, then we would have guided you. It makes no difference if we cry out or are patient, for we have no refuge.?
Then We sent Moses and his brother Aaron with Our signs and a clear authority. To Pharaoh and his leaders. But they became arrogant, for they were a high and mighty people.
And when they argue in Hell, the weak will say to those who were arrogant ?We used to be your followers, can you take from us any portion of the Fire?? Those who were arrogant will Say ?We are all in it together, for God has passed judgment upon the servants.?
See in addition http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5787.0
The story of Iblis and Adam is symbolic of this recurrent pattern. Iblis symbolises the fiery and arrogant leaders who refuse to accept the message of God. And Adam symbolises the malleable people who sometimes are misled by their leaders, and sometimes follow the messenger.
And We said to the Angels ?Submit to Adam.? So they all submitted except for Iblis, he was of the Jinn, so he disobeyed the order of his Lord. ?Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy?? Miserable for the wicked is the substitute!
This verse does not imply that Iblis belongs to some race of invisible beings called jinns. It means that Iblis is of the same nature of the arrogant chiefs (jinn) who try to mislead the malleable commoners (ins).
The progeny of Iblis are the chiefs the commoners sometimes chose to follow instead of the messengers of God.Is it not easy to understand?
Do you think there is a connection between names Iblis and Ifrit ?
See http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg94065#msg94065
Peace
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Peace
If we consider Jinns as leaders, is the word jinn referring to a title
or is it referring to a clan/group ?
I mean, will someone be always a jinn once they are a jinn/leader
Or their position can vary between jinn and man.Also, I still can not figure out the connection between ?created by fire?
and leaders?The created from "fire" (immaterial) in 1527 is a reference to "jinn" as being "human nature" prior to the creation of flesh from "clay" (material).
Peace.
Peace
Thanks for trying to explain can you explain the first part also.
How do we connect, Iblis refusing to prostrate to Adam since
he was created from clay but Iblis being Jinn and having
?human nature? according to you. What was the problem between clay and fire.
Can you please explain this in detail because it is bit confusing right now.Do you think there is a connection between names Iblis and Ifrit ?
My view is that "jinn" is contextual. One must consider what it is referring to and attempting to apply one meaning to all instances is how the confusion arises.
Apart from both beginning with "I" and being two syllables with similar vowel, no I personally can't see a connection.
Peace.
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Peace
Thank you for the explanation.
Was Iblis created before Adam.
Also, are you implying that all this is symbolic? The creation of man from clay, angels prostrating and Iblis refusing, the creation of the mate, the episode of the tree in the garden and subsequent banishment to earth and Iblis being cursed till the Day of Judgment. That means the leaders are cursed by God and have no opportunity to repent or enter paradise and they will always mislead men from the path.
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Peace
Thank you for the explanation.
Was Iblis created before Adam.
I don?t think so.
And We have created man from a clay hardened and shaped. And the Jinn, We created him before (min qablu) that from the flames of fire.
People usually conclude from this that the jinn (a species of invisible beings) have been created before the human beings.
The key word is min qablu. It is true it can mean before, but it can also simply mean ?in the past?.
2 examples
We had already, beforehand (min qablu), taken the covenant of Adam, but he forgot and We found on his part no firm resolve.
Within a few years. With Allah is the Decision, in the past (min qablu) and in the Future on that Day shall the Believers rejoice-Assuming this word means ?before?, let?s have a look a the context
And We have known those who came early amongst you, and We have known those who came late. And it is your Lord that will gather them. He is Wise, Knowledgeable. And We have created man from a clay hardened and shaped. And the Jinn, We created him before (min qablu) that from the flames of fire.
In the preceding verse, there is a reference to the gathering (into the hell). So, the min qablu in , could simply mean that the ins and the jinn have been created before their gathering in hell.
And if We had wished, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me has taken effect, that I will fill Hell with Jinn and humans all together.
See also http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5787.0
Also, are you implying that all this is symbolic? The creation of man from clay, angels prostrating and Iblis refusing, the creation of the mate, the episode of the tree in the garden and subsequent banishment to earth and Iblis being cursed till the Day of Judgment.
Yes.
As I have explained you, it is symbolical of the relation between everyone, God (and its message), and the misguiders (shayateen).
It is not an event that took place sometimes in the past? It is something that happens everyday in everyone?s mind.
It is guidance for the believers, in their everyday's life.That means the leaders are cursed by God and have no opportunity to repent or enter paradise and they will always mislead men from the path.
When reading the Quran, you can find in multiples occurrences the story about the leaders who mislead their commoners. You will also find that, at the time they will all be gathered in hell (the leaders as well as the commoners), the leaders will abandon their commoners.
However, there are some exceptions.
Salomon and his nobles were on the right side. And the queen Sheba (and her nobles), when invited to submit to God, has accepted.
The prophet Muhammad also met the leaders of a Jew tribe (), and they have chosen to submit to God.
In the beginning of surah 72, there is also a story about the leaders of some Christian nation, and some of them will accept the guidance.Peace
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Peace,
Warner; download my article on jinn
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6089.0
As for the tree in the Adam story, it can be explained by the word djenna=garden hidden by foilage/trees. So the trees resemble the deeds, and the ground(garden) resembles the results of those deeds. When looking at the context of the verses, the tree Adam was told not to approach, says it was a deed that they shouldn?t approach, which was division among the people. So djenna is not up there somewhere. This all comes from the Bible and has infected our minds. Djenna is the perfect result of the good deeds. Gehenna is the result of bad deeds(which is given as zulqan, the tree of hell). These are no places.