What is the meaning of God alone Qur'an alone?

mquran

And I did not realise you spoke Hindi?

I don't. I have you to thank for opening my eyes to arty Indian Cinema. Very stimulating indeed.

So mquran are you saying all knowlege outside of quran has no relevancy? Please clarify...

For me to live in salaam/peacefulness/abundance/freedom from danger, yes. I need no other rules. My essence has been foretold by al-quraan.

unknownuser

And I did not realise you spoke Hindi?

I don't. I have you to thank for opening my eyes to arty Indian Cinema. Very stimulating indeed.

So you are enjoying it?
Thats very good... -)

Have you seen Apu Trilogy then?

For me to live in salaam/peacefulness/abundance/freedom from danger, yes. I need no other rules. My essence has been foretold by al-quraan.

But that does not exclude all other forms of knowledge does it? Like science and medicine? Maths and Logic?

Regards,

unknownuser

BTW, its 'mera naam joker' and not 'meri naam joker' )

unknownuser

Hi Mquran,

I would agree with omeiza. Some in the forum do claim anything not mentioned in the Quran is nonsense and false and vain talk. I wouldnt agree on that. Quran is God's direct message/guidance to mankind. But all other forms of goodness, knowledge, wisdom outside Quran is from Allah too. If Quran doesnt mention meditation is good, drinking 8 glasses of water a day is good, it doesnt make all these acts sinful. We need to use logic, reasoning and sense to understand reality and truth. We cant blindly refute anything not mentioned in the Quran as false.

Question how do you determine a posit to be 'wisdom' or 'not wisdom' ? Or do you simply accept all statements as wise?

Wisdom is something that can stand the test of reality and truth. And, no, Why would I accept all or any statement blindly as wise?

The fact that ''Allah is one'' doesnt need extra explanation. Its very obvious and fits in all forms of logic and reasoning

So the only statement needed is 'Huwa Allahu ahad'. The rest could be junked?

When did I say that?
Its very evident that God is one. It fits into all logic and reasoning. Why would one want explanation/clarification for the fact?

We need to use logic, reasoning and common sense and accept truth no matter where it comes from.

What is 'truth' ? Please define how you would determine a 'truth' ?

Truth is something that?s true and real, that fits into logic and reasoning, and again stands the test.

And like Mehdi rightly pointed out

And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing) for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.

So, wisdom and truth dont end with Quran.
Peace!

mquran

PM Wisdom is something that can stand the test of reality and truth. And, no, Why would I accept all or any statement blindly as wise?

Excellent. Test of reality and truth. Al-quraan is al-haqq, the ultimate truth. It's the detailing of the book of reality. So all 'wisdom' needs to agree with the book.

When did I say that?
Its very evident that God is one. It fits into all logic and reasoning. Why would one want explanation/clarification for the fact?

How does it 'fit into all logic and reasoning'? Please state your premise and deduction?

And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing) for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.

So, wisdom and truth dont end with Quran.

Funnily, the ayat says 'kalimah' and you say 'wisdom and truth'. Al-quraan should be understood by al-quraan

006.114 Say "Shall I seek for judge other than God? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
006.115 The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice None can change His words for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all

So 31/27 doesn't tell you to seek wisdom elsewhere. It just tells you the comprehensiveness of His Kalimah.

unknownuser

Hi Mquran,

Its very evident that God is one. It fits into all logic and reasoning. Why would one want explanation/clarification for the fact?

How does it 'fit into all logic and reasoning'? Please state your premise and deduction?

I?d understand ?God is one? with or without Quran. It makes sense to me. It fits into all those questions that one has about creation and creator. And I can see/sense God's signs all round me. So, Even if there was no Quran, I would have believed ??God is one??(btw, the idea was confirmed in previous scriptures as well). Quran is a good confirmation of the same. Quran is a confirmation of the truth that people failed to see. Quran is God?s message to people, spelling out truth.

And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing) for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.
So, wisdom and truth dont end with Quran.

Funnily, the ayat says 'kalimah' and you say 'wisdom and truth'. Al-quraan should be understood by al-quraan

I understand this verse as follows
Allah is the most wise and all-knowing and if He decided to pen down all that he knew (wisdom), He would have so much words that 3127 And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing) for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.
Would u say , my understanding of that verse is wrong?

unknownuser

Sister Peacfulmuslim

I accept your interpetation to 3127, sounds very reasonable when compared to the arabic words, my only note I believe Kalimat Allah in the verse meant to be general Kalimat, i.e. facts, stories, wisdom, etc etc

peace be with you

unknownuser

Sister Peacfulmuslim

I accept your interpetation to 3127, sounds very reasonable when compared to the arabic words, my only note I believe Kalimat Allah in the verse meant to be general Kalimat, i.e. facts, stories, wisdom, etc etc

By wisdom, I mean Truth, Knowledge and Reality of all times(that would include facts, stories(By stories, I guess u mean history))

unknownuser

Sister Peacfulmuslim

I accept your interpetation to 3127, sounds very reasonable when compared to the arabic words, my only note I believe Kalimat Allah in the verse meant to be general Kalimat, i.e. facts, stories, wisdom, etc etc

By wisdom, I mean Truth, Knowledge and Reality of all times(that would include facts, stories(By stories, I guess u mean history))

sure it includes all what you listed in addition to history and possibly many other topics

we have no disagreement sister, it was just an extra bit of info

peace

mquran

Id understand God is one with or without Quran. It makes sense to me. It fits into all those questions that one has about creation and creator. And I can see/sense God's signs all round me. So, Even if there was no Quran, I would have believed God is one(btw, the idea was confirmed in previous scriptures as well). Quran is a good confirmation of the same. Quran is a confirmation of the truth that people failed to see. Quran is Gods message to people, spelling out truth.

Your statement was that it fit into 'all logic and reasoning'. Do you know how a logical deduction works?

If someone said God is good. There's evil in the world. A good God couldn't allow evil. Therefore there is no god. This a logical deduction. So no, it doesn't fit into 'all logic and reasoning'.

I understand this verse as follows
Allah is the most wise and all-knowing and if He decided to pen down all that he knew (wisdom), He would have so much words that 3127 And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing) for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.
Would u say , my understanding of that verse is wrong?

No, but to fit 'kalimah' into other bits of wisdom is a stretch. Kalimah of Allah are his concepts and fully explained in the verse you very nicely omitted (6/115)

None of you believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself."

just because it is not in The Quran does not void it's Truth... this statement rings Truth on many.... many levels...

i'm not sure who said this above statement.. as the grapevine is not a "proven" science... however it's thought that the Prophet Muhammad has said it... but does it matter..?

AL-quraan clearly defines who an al-mumin is (9/111 for example) and 'wishing for his brother' isn't part of the criteria. So yes, it does matter. I'd rather stick to the book , thanks.

isn't Truth (usually) Self Evident... ?

What makes something 'evident' ?

unknownuser

I understand this verse as follows
Allah is the most wise and all-knowing and if He decided to pen down all that he knew (wisdom), He would have so much words that 3127 And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing) for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.
Would u say , my understanding of that verse is wrong?

No, but to fit 'kalimah' into other bits of wisdom is a stretch. Kalimah of Allah are his concepts and fully explained in the verse you very nicely omitted (6/115)

What according to u is kalimah? And what is ur understanding of the verse 3127?
Peace!

mquran

hope this helps..

It doesn't . A picture with a caption on the internet. How is that self-evident?

Also, what is your response to the mumin comment? Al-quraan has given a criteria for what a mumin is, but you choose to add to that criteria.

mquran

Mehdi, do you know how to conduct a discussion?

You said 'truth is self-evident'. Im asking you now, how does that picture you posted make something 'self-evident' ?

response to what? you just stated an opionon...

Well, its a verifiable fact that al-quraan has criteria for being a mumin.

Its also a verifiable fact that this criteria doesnt include your comment.

Its another verifiable that al-quraan doesn't allow for external sources to intrude upon the explanation of its concepts.

Make a deduction with these facts or refute them.

unknownuser

Hi mquran,

I say ' Internet enables one to communicate with people living in different parts of the world'

Is my statement true or false?
And Would u ask for an evidence of my statement from Quran?

mquran

doesn't the picture speak for itself? the picture is self evident...

Self-evident of WHAT ? What is the quality of being 'self-evident?

my deduction is simple... you use your own opinions on the Quran, which is fine, except you try (through your own way) to force your opinions onto other people.. then when that doesn't work out for you... you try and drag folks into arguments about the Quran by splitting translations...

Mehdi, I don't care what people think or if people agree. What I do ask for is if people enter discussions, they follow through. You simply do not address my points. I have shown you why your saying doesn't fit the Quranic world view. I accept that I could be wrong but please SHOW ME HOW. If you cannot, that's fine. If my deductions are wrong, SHOW ME PLEASE. I want to be corrected because I'd like to have the most correct view possible.

but those who understand know that there is no need to argue the Quran and that really pisses you off...

Al-quraan is a text which is meant to be understood and to do this, some debates may be necessary. Of course, some people like yourself turn it into your usual ego-tripping and get offended when the Quran doesn't support your views. I don't get pissed off with empty vessels like you, but I do wonder at myself for responding. I should know better.

unknownuser

You said 'truth is self-evident'. Im asking you now, how does that picture you posted make something 'self-evident' ?

One can hypotheise that DEMOCRACY IS THE RULE OF MAJORITY from that picture perhaps? Just like you can hypothesise the meaning of a verse from the context of the quranic verses in a paragraph?....

some food for thought....

Regards,

mquran

Mehdi, I'm not playing your game. To me , a bidimensional picture says nothing until the perciever projects a meaning unto it. If you think otherwise, thats fine.

mquran

so please think when you feel so sure about your understanding of the Quran when you try and argue it onto another... or when you call folks kafir over your own meaning of the Quran you are projecting only your perception onto another... your opionon of onto another.. when the Truth is Evident... there is no argument...

I understand where you're coming from but I think you fail to take into account a few things

Al-quraan's field of effect is the physical realm. Its an objective truth which even disbelievers would admit to when their hour arrives. 10/90 is a good case in point where Firaun admits his belief, albeit when its too late.
Al-quraan has a systematic way of projecting meaning unto its text. After doing so, we can even check if our meaning is correct via its measurement of total consistency. This is why I keep asking you to bring a verse to the discussion. If my view is wrong, the verse you bring will prove it.
To judge someone as 'kafir' isnt necessarily pejorative. Your actions on the other thread showed me you weren't after a civilised discussion. My judgement therefore was necessary for me to identify you as someone whom I cannot have a discussion with. Its a protection mechanism, not a racial classification as per sunnism. The second you change your posture and discuss constructively and civilly, the judgement changes.

mquran

i disagree with you.. but understand that it is only your opionon... and you're entitled to it..

Ok, that's fine. Would you care to tell me where I've gone wrong?

mquran

not only physical...

1. Do ye not see that Allah has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah , without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them

Read what I said again please

Al-quraan's field of effect is the physical realm. Its an objective truth which even disbelievers would admit to when their hour arrives. 10/90 is a good case in point where Firaun admits his belief, albeit when its too late.

The ayat you posted has no relevance to what I just said. My assertion is about al-quraan's objective truth, not about Allah's bounties.

Do you feel al-quraan's truth is subjective? If so, kindly provide your evidence.

if you go through my posts you'll see that i do bring verses.. however i don't argue them.. why? simply because the "systematic way of projecting meaning unto it's text"... is one perception.. one way of looking at it... perhaps your way... as you said

Ok, so what is your opinion on the matter? Does al-quraan simply allow any and all interpretations without any interference? If so, why are sunni interpretations glaringly false in general?

you appear to live in a black and white world.. i understand this world by means of the beuty in which "absolution" brings from the absolute...

Ah beautiful. Evidence please?

your views are contradicting... simply shows that the physical realm which we live in.. this Dunya.. is much more than just black and white... even if you refer it to the "this is what democracy looks like" flyer i posted...

it is much more than... you either do it like mquran says.. or you suck! you know?

Hmm, you're comparing a poster to the book of Allah? Gosh. And btw, I ask for evidence. I could be wrong in my views and am willing to reposition myself but I have to see evidence. I havent seen you address my points much. Of course thats your right to miss the point but do inform me because I dont like wasting my time.

as i said.. you appear to jump the gun.. and pre-judge.. your juegement of me being a kafir... and your actions of judging as such.. only tells more of who and where mquran comes from.. than of m. mehdi..

How is that a PRE-judgement ? You acted first and then I decided how to percieve you. I wouldnt have decided that if you didn't act in that way. So how is it a PRE-judgement?