My Thoughts On These Debates So Far
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Peace Jaxal,
I disagree with you that Quran wasn't supposed to be used for run a country.
I mean the message of peace and patiency and how to behave and all this plus actually rules for some things.
I don't say that humans can't create rules and laws in a country but those rules and laws cannot go against Quran.
Of course there must be a law for how deal with a drunk drivers, but that was only an example that all laws mustn't exist in Quran.
Quran stands for the good moral and be thankful to our Creator and to deal just with our fellow brothers and sisters.
What is the problem really, why you throw away Quran?
Is Quran only a beautiful book in your bookshelf????
Quran is showing a lifestyle and we live all in a society so i see no reason to abandon Quran but rather follow it to reach to the goal of our life here on earth.
Peace Majidah
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Salaamun alaikum,
MajidahBut therefore a messenger must turn up, because Quran says that we shall not only obey God but also his messenger.
Exactly right. Of course, most people would reject a new messenger, sadly.
NadiaFor believers I would think the stance of using the quran as a basic framework and expanding on the areas it doesn't give details on is fine...then you have the problem of what shall we do with different interpretations...hell's horses man...vote for which one is suitable, we can maybe keep the democrats happy then
I personally wouldnt get involved in a group where decisions are made democratically. It doesn't work. The best way is to carve out your own domain and rule singly. I await a person who's inspired to follow the book and I will line up behind him, inshaa Allah.
We need to maybe discuss on what kind of process we could have to choose an interpretation, because thats one amongst other things that many are unhappy about...should a 'messenger' figure do it, can we vote? Secondly, we have the 'how shall we choose the one who will step up to the plate', here some say we will know when it happens, and some want batman...I don't know the answers, but hopefully with some more discussion we might figure it out...hope springs eternal...
Nadia, the thing is, all these questions have been answered. The problem is, some of us simply reject the book. You may think im being harsh or judgemental but im simply looking at the book and looking at personalities and i see the people who claim to believe refusing to refer to Allah and his rasool. The book is so clear about methodology. The question if we submit or we do not.
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Idris They want the quran/reading to be a personal self-help book that has no part in a socio-economic order, this is a big mistake
LOL....deepak chopra even took his metaphysics, by his own admission, from Rumi sometimes. Rumi was an esoteric commentator of al-quraan!
Circle closes it seems. -
I swear i posted a reply to SM. Maybe the gremlins deleted it. But here it is again.
I disagree with you that Quran wasn't supposed to be used for run a country.
Thats alright. Thats the beauty of free will.
I don't say that humans can't create rules and laws in a country but those rules and laws cannot go against Quran.
That is what i have been saying all along.
Of course there must be a law for how deal with a drunk drivers, but that was only an example that all laws mustn't exist in Quran.
Well, perhaps you can show me from the Quran where it talks about speeding?
What is the problem really, why you throw away Quran?
Dont make assumptions SM. No one is throwing away anything.
Is Quran only a beautiful book in your bookshelf????
Its there along with the Torah and the Bible. Its just a book. Altered and changed like the other two.
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Salaam Jaxal,
Oh so was someone really deleted your post?
Poor Jaxal!!!!!
Well can you be so kind and tell me what it means to run a country?
I'm waiting for your reply
Peace Majidah
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Anybody else want to offer their views on this, I think the debate under this thread could have the potential to be much more beneficial than under previous threads
Just a small comment mate
I really believe that the Quran supports democracy, the word democracy just didn't exist then
what I mean, all the Quran teachings is nothing but democracy, I may start looking for a few verses to support what I mean
the short definition for democracy is freedom, right?
peace
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Salaam!!
What I'm finding in most topics or posts by people and I'm no exception is that when an opinion is posted or a concept its not backed up by quranic verses and therefore its just like any writing or hadith. If we truly believe Quran is the very word of God then why aren't we posting verses. I'm God willing going to try and do that most often.
Jaxal I gotta disagree with you on this one brother. Quran is everything from a spiritual book to a book telling us the ONLY laws on how to run a society. Obviously it does not have every single crime and punishment in the Quran and thats left to us to decide just like it doesn't state the exact dress code for women and its left upto the women to decide.
You may say but the Quran says its fully detailed. My understanding and plz someone do correct me is that its fully detailed as far as God is concerned. He's given us a map(Quran) and we've got to walk the actual path(our life). The answers are all in the Quran about everything you want to know I believe.....it may not be specific but it certainly will give you an answer to a dilemma or situation you come across. Anyone got anymore about this fully detailed part of the Quran as I've come across people saying Quran is not fully detailed as it doesn't tell you how to build a fridge for example. lol
PEACE
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Salaam!!
You may say but the Quran says its fully detailed. My understanding and plz someone do correct me is that its fully detailed as far as God is concerned. He's given us a map(Quran) and we've got to walk the actual path(our life). The answers are all in the Quran about everything you want to know I believe.....it may not be specific bu it certainly will give you an answer to a dilemma or situation you come across. Anyone got anymore about this fully detailed part of the Quran as I've coem across people saying Quran is not fully detailed as it doesn't tell you how to build a fridge for example.
PEACEWell said bro
and that is my philisophy since i was 13 years old
peace be with you
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5101 O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, God will forgive those for God is Oft- forgiving, Most Forbearing.
It was very easy for Allah Taala to write down each and every detail in Qur'an. Allah Taala is certainly not in shortage of words. The basic complete system is already in Qur'an where all the secondary laws could be established in the light of Qur'an.
Speeding and drunk driving is very easy issues to resolved with the Qur'anic message. Computer hacking is a crime because it is intrude privacy law which is very clearly defined in Qur'an not to walk in anybody's home without permission.
The people who believe Qur'an is altered changed book will never understand the message of Qur'an. Qur'an only opens up for the people who had faith in Allah Taala his His words.
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What I'm finding in most topics or posts by people and I'm no exception is that when an opinion is posted or a concept its not backed up by quranic verses and therefore its just like any writing or hadith. If we truly believe Quran is the very word of God then why aren't we posting verses. I'm God willing going to try and do that most often.
Jaxal I gotta disagree with you on this one brother. Quran is everything from a spiritual book to a book telling us the ONLY laws on how to run a society. Obviously it does not have every single crime and punishment in the Quran and thats left to us to decide just like it doesn't state the exact dress code for women and its left upto the women to decide.
You may say but the Quran says its fully detailed. My understanding and plz someone do correct me is that its fully detailed as far as God is concerned. He's given us a map(Quran) and we've got to walk the actual path(our life). The answers are all in the Quran about everything you want to know I believe.....it may not be specific bu it certainly will give you an answer to a dilemma or situation you come across. Anyone got anymore about this fully detailed part of the Quran as I've coem across people saying Quran is not fully detailed as it doesn't tell you how to build a fridge for example.
2pac, did weed help to achieve this epiphany? If it did, I may well reconsider my position on it (jk although LoteTree will misquote me on this, im sure)
Allah calls al-quraan 'tafseel kulli SHAI'IN'/detailling of every THING. Maybe whats outside al-quraan isn't a 'thing' to Allah? Allah only cares that we follow what the essence of humankind.
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Salaam 2-pac,
The best you have said so far
There isn't any wrong with Quran it's only wrong with ppl's minds, how they see things.
Peace Majidah
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SaLaM SM and 2Pac
SM Running a country means that Quran has EVERY SINGLE THING one needs to run a country. Kind of like A to Z of running a country. Do you believe that Quran is an A to Z for running a country?
2Pac Brother answer this. If i asked you to run a country, would you look at the Quran? People who are saying Quran is all they need to run a country mean that Quran is LITERALLY all they need to run a country. Do you beleive that brother? No outside source. Nothing. JUST the Quran. Do you believe that the Quran is ALL we need to run a country?
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salaam Jaxal,
I don't feel to reply on such an easy to run away explanation.
Come on Jaxal, don't act like a kid, please.
Give me a real explanation.
Peace Majidah
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Salaam 2-pac,
The best you have said so far D
There isn't any wrong with Quran it's only wrong with ppl's minds, how they see things.
Peace Majidah
Oh thanks Majidah ) Appreciate the feedback.
2pac, did weed help to achieve this epiphany? If it did, I may well reconsider my position on it (jk although LoteTree will misquote me on this, im sure)
Allah calls al-quraan 'tafseel kulli SHAI'IN'/detailling of every THING. Maybe whats outside al-quraan isn't a 'thing' to Allah? Allah only cares that we follow what the essence of humankind.
Well brother mquran it may have or may not have. I guess its upto you to VERIFY that yourself wink Natural meditation is the best though but i prefer the easy way sumtimes and just cheat myself and light up - aint good for the lungs though so got to be careful. Why not try it?? wink
PEACE
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SaLaM SM
Well maybe you should be clear about how deep of an explaination you require. You asked
Well can you be so kind and tell me what it means to run a country?
To which i said
Running a country means that Quran has EVERY SINGLE THING one needs to run a country.
Its to the point. I thought that would have been enough. What do you mean by 'real explaination' ?
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Well brother mquran it may have or may not have. I guess its upto you to VERIFY that yourself Natural meditation is the best though but i prefer the easy way sumtimes and just cheat myself and light up - aint good for the lungs though so got to be careful. Why not try it??
Hehe, its ok, thanks anyhow. I find ramadhan readings give me the natural high of reading, i guess that'll have to do.
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Salam everyone
2Pac-notts i don't have words to describe your post. I admire your words of wisdom. bravo
Your way of thinking was inspirational and this is what we keep forgetting.
We don't need a verse of the Quran for every thing we think or do,we just need its inspiration.Its funny though how America can give someone the death penalty and in the uk you can put some one behind bars for the rest of their life but Islamic laws are seen as barbaric.
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Salaam Jaxal,
Oh i give up about you, sorry.
Peace Sis Majidah
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SaLaM SM and 2Pac
2Pac Brother answer this. If i asked you to run a country, would you look at the Quran? People who are saying Quran is all they need to run a country mean that Quran is LITERALLY all they need to run a country. Do you beleive that brother? No outside source. Nothing. JUST the Quran. Do you believe that the Quran is ALL we need to run a country?
Salaam Jaxal!
Brother your falling into the same trap as sunni/shias. They weren't happy with using the Quran and their own minds on how to run their lives and therefore ran to other books for answers which ended up giving them more problems roll
You wrote outside source ive highlighted. What outside source are you referring to??All sources come from God don't they??
I believe Quran is all that we need to run the counrty. Quran tells me to think and use my brain and to debate/consultation. Did the Quran say the punishment for a drink driver??Obviously not and just because it's not mentioned in the Quran doesn't mean its not fully detailed. We just use our own reasoning and sound judgement God gives us to decide on that instead. YOUR MIND IS THE MICROSCOPE BROTHER JUST USE IT AND THE QURAN WILL BECOME FULLY DETAILED wink
And We strengthened his kingship, and We gave him the wisdom and the ability to make sound judgement. 3820
PEACE