Al-ins/al-insan # al-jinn
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Peace be upon you,
I am going to clarify my position in a new thread entitled "the hidden ones"
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Peace all,
As I stated before, I consider the hidden beings as seperate entities like human beings. Some verses can help us to clarify the relation between these two beings.
The following is not an exhaustive list, feel free to add other verses- Say If all the humans/mankind and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Reading like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another.
Neither the human beings, neither the hidden beings nor the human beings and the hidden beings together could not bring a Reading like this
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On that Day, no more questioning is asked of human or Jinn as to his sins.
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No human has ever touched them, nor Jinn.
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And we had thought that neither mankind nor the Jinn would ever utter a lie against God.
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From the evil of the sneaking whisperer,
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Who whispers into the chests of mankind,
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From among the Jinn and mankind.
Looking forward to your comment.
Thanks
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Peace be upon you Marie,
As I stated before, I consider the hidden beings as seperate entities like human beings
I agree. If you sit quietly and watch your thoughts come and go, you will see that YOU are not the one orchestrating which thoughts come to you and you will realize that YOU are not your thoughts. This is verifyable.
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SaLaM Idolfree
If you sit quietly and watch your thoughts come and go, you will see that YOU are not the one orchestrating which thoughts come to you and you will realize that YOU are not your thoughts. This is verifyable.
Our thoughts come from us. Unless ofcourse if i want to think otherwise. Its like when the george thinks its God telling him to make wars.
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
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If you sit quietly and watch your thoughts come and go, you will see that YOU are not the one orchestrating which thoughts come to you and you will realize that YOU are not your thoughts. This is verifyable.Our thoughts come from us.
Did you even try the exercise?
There are two phases of this, there is THOUGHT DRIFT, and if you meditate on it, you will realize that you are not the one chooing whic thoughts and images come to your mind. REASONING is the process of taking control of your thoughts. Do me a favor and check it out first this time.
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SaLaM idolfree
I HAVE tried this. I like to 'think'. Especially in the nights. And i 'think' for hours sometimes. All my thoughts come from me. You make it sound like random images will come to mind. There is no such thing as 'random occurances'. If i ask to pick up a number from 1 - 10000 on the spot, the number you come up with isnt random either. Its just that your brain can think faster than you realize and by the time you actually SAY the number, your mind has calculated which number from the given range can truely be 'random'. It goes like this (not accurate but gives you a picture)
1] dont choose from the beginning fo the range.
2] dont choose from the end of the range.
3] dont choose from the first 100 number
4] dont choose from the last 100 numbers
5] much be in the center
6] process the range 1-10000
7] pics the number from almost between the range
8] gives the information to your speech center allowing you to say it.Now unless it is YOU who decides 'ok i will be smart and pick from the first 100' then you have already asked your mind to do that. The proces that follows is similar to above.
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
I see you have not done it yet. Have you ever caught yourself one day humming a song , maybe even a song you dont even like? Where did it come from? Did you CONSCIOUSLY call forth this song, yes or no?
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
Yes, from the "subconscious", and if you do the research, there is no proof of subconcious, its just a word scientists use to avoid saying "spirit" (nafs). If you say it is YOU who controls your subcpncious, then I guess you make your own heart beat as well, and you take the apple you eat and convert it to flesh? It is not YOU who controls these events. Do you agree yes or no?
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SaLaM idolfree
Wow. Ok. A subconcious mind is "aspects of the mind of which we are not directly conscious or aware." It cannot be put any simple than that. Now who controls the heart beat and the food digestion and sending the white blood cells where they are needed? the UNCONCIOUS MIND. The UNCONCIOUS MIND is a PART of our mind over which we dont have direct control. This same part gives us dreams. So
It is not YOU who controls these events.
Ofcouse its me! who else do you think is controlling it? The jinn? Its an automatic function of my brain. I dont have to worry about it becoz my UNCONCIOUS MIND is taking care of it. Its doing me a favor by doing it FOR ME. You cant do all that in your body. At any given time, your body and brain are processing a million functions just to keep you going. YOU want to take control of all that? A man cant do 5 things at the same time and you want to do 1 million things? Comon idolfree. My MIND is taking care of it. Ofcourse its me who is controling these events. Im just not aware of it. Thank God for that.
A better example would be when you type. Right now, im typing without looking at he keyboard. Do you think i hav special abilities? ofcourse not. Its my unconcious mind which is guiding my fingers where to press becoz it is so used to it that the data is stored in my brain. So its automatically feeding my CONCIOUS mind that data teling me " here is the location, press here". I make a concious decison based on the unconcious data being fed to me by my brain. This is how it works. There shouldnt be any complaining D
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
Wow. Ok. A subconcious mind is "aspects of the mind of which we are not directly conscious or aware." It cannot be put any simple than that.
What you are calling subconcious mind is what "koran" calls "nafs". But it is not YOU, it is something which you are given charge of, or in most cases is in charge of YOU, but YOU are not your "subconcious mind".
Now who controls the heart beat and the food digestion and sending the white blood cells where they are needed? the UNCONCIOUS MIND.
Good. I'm glad you didnt say "Me".
The UNCONCIOUS MIND is a PART of our mind over which we dont have direct control.
What I am trying to get you to understand is that the Spirit(nafs) is not "you". Like your body, which is the densest part of the spirit(subconcious), "you" are not your body. If you look at a picture of te cells that you were made up of at 4 years old, and look at yourself now, everything is changed, but you still say "me". If your arm gets cut off, do you cease being "you"? Dont rush to answer these questions.
This same part gives us dreams.
Correct, and when is the last time you picked your own dream?
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It is not YOU who controls these events.Ofcouse its me! who else do you think is controlling it? The jinn?
Good answer!
Its an automatic function of my brain. I dont have to worry about it becoz my UNCONCIOUS MIND is taking care of it. Its doing me a favor by doing it FOR ME. You cant do all that in your body. At any given time, your body and brain are processing a million functions just to keep you going. YOU want to take control of all that? A man cant do 5 things at the same time and you want to do 1 million things? Comon idolfree. My MIND is taking care of it. Ofcourse its me who is controling these events. Im just not aware of it. Thank God for that.
Hmm, so if we take it all the way back, it was "you" who also formed your own body in your mothers womb? If not, when exactky did "you" take over these functions?
A better example would be when you type. Right now, im typing without looking at he keyboard. Do you think i hav special abilities? ofcourse not. Its my unconcious mind which is guiding my fingers where to press becoz it is so used to it that the data is stored in my brain. So its automatically feeding my CONCIOUS mind that data teling me " here is the location, press here". I make a concious decison based on the unconcious data being fed to me by my brain. This is how it works. There shouldnt be any complaining
Yes, we have the capability , through repitation, of giving things to the SPIRIT(nafs) to take over (we are gettig into salaat). But we are NOT our NAFS.
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SaLaM idolfree
What you are calling subconcious mind is what "koran" calls "nafs". But it is not YOU, it is something which you are given charge of, or in most cases is in charge of YOU, but YOU are not your "subconcious mind".
That is your opinion idolfree. The word for mind is 'aql' or 'zahan'.
What you are calling subconcious mind is what "koran" calls "nafs". But it is not YOU, it is something which you are given charge of, or in most cases is in charge of YOU, but YOU are not your "subconcious mind".
First of all, i dont believe spirit = nafs. I believe nafs = soul becoz the word for spirit is RUH Second, i do recognize that the that the spirit is seperate from the body. The brain is seperate from the spirit.
Correct, and when is the last time you picked your own dream?
Last night. Its called LUCID DREAMING.
Hmm, so if we take it all the way back, it was "you" who also formed your own body in your mothers womb? If not, when exactky did "you" take over these functions?
Im supprised you would think that. You are an intelligent person idolfree. when i was in my mother's womb then my mother's body was doing the work. Not me.
But we are NOT our NAFS.
No we are not. Hence why i say that everything we think of come from our mind. mind is not equal to nafs. mind and nafs are like night and day. Two seperate entities.
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hi Jaxal,
How would u define 'mind'?
And what according to u is the difference between mind and brain?Peace!
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SaLaM PM
I dont know how to explain it. but the 'mind' is the non physical aspect of the brain. What im trying to say is that 'mind' releates to the brain. For example the sentence "I saw her in my mind". This is not possible for the physical brain. But that is where the mind comes in. 'Mind' can never be releated to our hands or feet or hair or toes or fingers. Always the brain. The non physical aspect of our brain.
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
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What you are calling subconcious mind is what "koran" calls "nafs". But it is not YOU, it is something which you are given charge of, or in most cases is in charge of YOU, but YOU are not your "subconcious mind".That is your opinion idolfree. The word for mind is 'aql' or 'zahan'.
So which one is it? Show me the verse where it is used also s I can check it.
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What you are calling subconcious mind is what "koran" calls "nafs". But it is not YOU, it is something which you are given charge of, or in most cases is in charge of YOU, but YOU are not your "subconcious mind".First of all, i dont believe spirit = nafs. I believe nafs = soul becoz the word for spirit is RUH
Soul/Spirit/mind are all the same thing. the "ruh" is the "energy" which moves things, it is related to "wind" to symbolize this action. Stop following everything you learned in sunni masjid blindly brother we are not here to parrot the same things that sunni follow, we are here to discover the truth and to tie this all together.
Second, i do recognize that the that the spirit is seperate from the body. The brain is seperate from the spirit.
The brain is part of your body and it is the densest part of the spirit(nafs).
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Correct, and when is the last time you picked your own dream?Last night. Its called LUCID DREAMING.
Lucid dreaming is when you wake up in your dream, you did not pick which dream you woke up in.
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Hmm, so if we take it all the way back, it was "you" who also formed your own body in your mothers womb? If not, when exactky did "you" take over these functions?Im supprised you would think that. You are an intelligent person idolfree. when i was in my mother's womb then my mother's body was doing the work. Not me.
Congrats, you have taken God out of the God out of the picture like the Greeks did.
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But we are NOT our NAFS.No we are not. Hence why i say that everything we think of come from our mind. mind is not equal to nafs. mind and nafs are like night and day. Two seperate entities.
To speak in terms of "mind", we are the concious mind, that is our identity, then there is what people call the subconcious mind which is something we are in charge of, NOT US, NOT our identity, of which the human body is its densest form, thoughts and emotions being less dense forms of it. To speak in different terms it is the SELF, our identity, and the SPIRIT, not our identity. The ancient saying "KNOW THYSELF" points to this understanding.
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Peace be upon you Jaxal,
I dont know how to explain it. but the 'mind' is the non physical aspect of the brain. What im trying to say is that 'mind' releates to the brain. For example the sentence "I saw her in my mind". This is not possible for the physical brain. But that is where the mind comes in. 'Mind' can never be releated to our hands or feet or hair or toes or fingers. Always the brain. The non physical aspect of our brain.
The brain is physical, if there is something non physcial, how can you say it is part of the brain? Its only through conditioning that you relate it to the brain. I have no problem that you do so, but reconize that you cannot explain it.
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SaLaM idolfree
So which one is it? Show me the verse where it is used also s I can check it.
I have not come across it yet, but then again, i havent seen the Quran mention brain anywhere.
we are here to discover the truth and to tie this all together.
And brother what if the truth is what was being taught in the sunni masjid? Sunnis are not from another plane. They do have some common understanding with us. In any case, this is your truth. Perhaps someday i will come to your undestanding. Perhaps some day you will come to mine. We have our own path. We walk our own path.
The brain is part of your body and it is the densest part of the spirit(nafs).
Dear brother, that is YOUR understanding. Im SURE not everyone will agree with it. and one day you may realise that you werent right.
Lucid dreaming is when you wake up in your dream, you did not pick which dream you woke up in.
True. It also means you can choose your dream. Last night i went to bed wanting to dream of my country, UAE. And i had a dream where i was in my city. I became lucid, and from there on, i was in control of my dream. this is not the first time either. I have chosen my dream many times. You just have to come to grips with this art. Its beautiful.
The brain is physical, if there is something non physcial, how can you say it is part of the brain? Its only through conditioning that you relate it to the brain. I have no problem that you do so, but reconize that you cannot explain it.
I can see why you would say that. BUT, the same cannot be said about any other part of your body. Its just the brain. I understand the concept, i just cant explain it in words. Maybe telepathy would have helped
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Hi Jaxal, Idolfree1,
I dont know how to explain it. but the 'mind' is the non physical aspect of the brain. What im trying to say is that 'mind' releates to the brain. For example the sentence "I saw her in my mind". This is not possible for the physical brain. But that is where the mind comes in. 'Mind' can never be releated to our hands or feet or hair or toes or fingers. Always the brain. The non physical aspect of our brain.
The mind is the term most commonly used to describe the higher functions of the human brain, particularly those of which humans are subjectively conscious, such as personality, thought, reason, memory, intelligence and emotion.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MindWould u agree?
Peace!
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I agree
peace