the reading(quran) is not the title of any book
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Peace be upon you Zsrin,
Thank you for bringing more reason into this discussion, very well stated reasoning.
Ahmed, you keep speaking of this "challenge". The "challenge" is to bring a structure(surah) or sign(ayat) like the Universe(Kitaab).
Yoo can never do it.
It has nothing to do with writing a book, that would be subjective. When you understand that it is Universal Law that we are dealing with, what can you bring that is not part of the Universe already? Can you do it?
Stop idolizing a book and stop idolizing a language, become idolfree
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without the koran , i couldnt see the right path . my eyes didnt tell me the difference between right and wrong . i had no criterion to distinguish .
That means there's something wrong with your perception. God gave us the mind and the eye sight and the heart to summon things up with common divine sense.
So how is it that one or more of these things aren't functioning properly? Why didn't God give you such a functioning perception ...God gave us the book for that function . to serve as a Criterion . whats wrong with ? why dont u follow it , instead of asking for a "functioning perception" for a criterion ?
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Peace be upon you Zsrin,
Thank you for bringing more reason into this discussion, very well stated reasoning.
Ahmed, you keep speaking of this "challenge". The "challenge" is to bring a structure(surah) or sign(ayat) like the Universe(Kitaab).
Yoo can never do it.
It has nothing to do with writing a book, that would be subjective. When you understand that it is Universal Law that we are dealing with, what can you bring that is not part of the Universe already? Can you do it?
Stop idolizing a book and stop idolizing a language, become idolfree D
lol
very funny bro, thanks
sorry I have to rush to pray to my god the Quran, haha
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Peace Ahmed,
Actually I am about to go out before I saw your last message..Ok, I don't speak Arabic..so can you explain to me the exact meaning of it? Anyway? So I guess you're fluent in English as you're fluent in Arabic? can you explain to me the meaning of "vain"????
What is your native language zsrin?
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without the koran , i couldnt see the right path . my eyes didnt tell me the difference between right and wrong . i had no criterion to distinguish .
That means there's something wrong with your perception. God gave us the mind and the eye sight and the heart to summon things up with common divine sense.
So how is it that one or more of these things aren't functioning properly? Why didn't God give you such a functioning perception ...God gave us the book for that function . to serve as a Criterion . whats wrong with ? why dont u follow it , instead of asking for a "functioning perception" for a criterion ?
God did not give us a book for the function of seeing, no. He gave us our own perception with eye sight, intellect and our hearts. A book is not a part of your own perception.
The Koran says that it is your very own sight and perception that you are responsible of and that is constantly "...aquestioned about it (1736)". It does not say "...inna l-basra, wa l-f?'?da wa l-kutub k?na `anhu mas'?lan". Your own heart is your responsibility, so don't let things you can't know for certain about misguide you. And by that I'm not tallking about the Koran, but your way of looking at it.
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Peace,
Anyway, Ahmed... Are u avoiding from answering my question?
"Vain Desire" and Ego, whats the different?? As my understanding...
vain
adj 1 characteristic of false pride; having an exaggerated sense
of self-importance; "a conceited fool"; "an attitude
of self-conceited arrogance"; "an egotistical
disregard of others"; "so swollen by victory that he
was unfit for normal duty"; "growing ever more
swollen-headed and arbitrary"; "vain about her
clothes"desire
n 1 the feeling that accompanies an unsatisfied state
2 an inclination to want things; "a man of many desires"
3 something that is desired
v 1 feel or have a desire for; want strongly; "I want to go home
now; "I want my own room"
2 expect with desire; "I trust you will behave better from now
on"; "I hope she understands that she cannot expect a
raise"
3 express a desire forego
n 1 an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others2 your consciousness of your own identity
3 (psychoanalysis) the conscious mindSo can we say "vain desire" mean something like "the feeling to have something that has the sense of self-importance"
So, whats the different between that and being "egoistic"???
Egoistic \E
go*is"tic\, Egoistical \Egois"tical, a.
Pertaining to egoism; imbued with egoism or excessive
thoughts of self; self-loving.So, is my understanding wrong??
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Anyway, Ahmed... Are u avoiding from answering my question?
Peace
no I'm not avoiding it, i'm not interested to answer it, that's all
"Vain Desire" and Ego, whats the different?? As my understanding...
vain
adj 1 characteristic of false pride; having an exaggerated sense
of self-importance; "a conceited fool"; "an attitude
of self-conceited arrogance"; "an egotistical
disregard of others"; "so swollen by victory that he
was unfit for normal duty"; "growing ever more
swollen-headed and arbitrary"; "vain about her
clothes"desire
n 1 the feeling that accompanies an unsatisfied state
2 an inclination to want things; "a man of many desires"
3 something that is desired
v 1 feel or have a desire for; want strongly; "I want to go home
now; "I want my own room"
2 expect with desire; "I trust you will behave better from now
on"; "I hope she understands that she cannot expect a
raise"
3 express a desire forego
n 1 an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others2 your consciousness of your own identity
3 (psychoanalysis) the conscious mindgood, but I don't need it, I speak fluent Arabic and I read the Quran in Arabic
o can we say "vain desire" mean something like "the feeling to have something that has the sense of self-importance"
I don't know, but what i know that "Hawa" means 100% "desire"
So, whats the different between that and being "egoistic"???
not ssure, but what that has to do with "Hawa"?
Egoistic \E
go*is"tic\, Egoistical \Egois"tical, a.
Pertaining to egoism; imbued with egoism or excessive
thoughts of self; self-loving.thanks again, but i'm not planning to be fluent in English, it is impossible due to learning it at old age so i'm not going to waste my time lol
So, is my understanding wrong??
I'm not sure really, I'm not knowledgable with the english language yet to know how one word can have many meanings, what I'm sure about that "Hawa" means "Desire", for example, "Ana Ahwa to fly all the time" means "I desire to fly all the time", "Ana Ahwa my wife" means "I desire my wife", not sure where ego can fit in here?
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Ahmed,
I guess you're too proud of your "Arabic" that you failed to understand my question, I asked you what do you understand with "vain desire"..
you translated the verse as
"Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own VAIN DESIRE? Allah has, knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight. Who, then, will guide him after Allah (has withdrawn Guidance)? Will ye not then receive admonition? "
I just want to know what you understand with "vain desire"????? Can I it be "ego" instead of "vain desire"?
Well, for me, whether its "ego", "vain desire", or "feeling of having something that has the sense of self-importance", is not important as long as I understand the meaning..In Mandarin, a single "character" can explain something that takes 10 words to explain in English, but yet, it is all the same thing when you understand the meaning....
Anyway, for me, desire springs from the ego and love of self... -
but that is good enough for me to know that "Howa" means "Desire" clear as light
"...
ashr?na?man...y? kit?b al haww?
wa lem azal f? ec-cafhat el ?l?"(/nizar qabbani)
sure he was documenting his desires, possibly a love to a woman, or any thing elase that he desired and wanted to be documented so he spent 20 years documenting the desires
Peace bro
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..what I'm sure about that "Hawa" means "Desire", for example, "Ana Ahwa to fly all the time" means "I desire to fly all the time", "Ana Ahwa my wife" means "I desire my wife", not sure where ego can fit in here?
Simple, ask yourself, whats the meaning of the word "desire" in the first place and what made us to have the feeling of "desire"...knowing the meaning is not enough, understanding the meaning is more important..
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Ahmed,
Hello
I guess you're too proud of your "Arabic" that you failed to understand my question,
not sure about that, did you ask me the question in Arabic?
I asked you what do you understand with "vain desire"
and I told you I don?t give meanings to a language that I?m not fluent at, , if you aske me what ?Hawah?. ? ? means in Arabic or in English, I will be happy to answer that
you translated the verse as
"Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own VAIN DESIRE? Allah has, knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight. Who, then, will guide him after Allah (has withdrawn Guidance)? Will ye not then receive admonition? "
I?m sorry, it is not my translation, obviously you failed to recognise that it was translated by YUSUFALI
YUSUFALI Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own vain desire? Allah has, knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight. Who, then, will guide him after Allah (has withdrawn Guidance)? Will ye not then receive admonition?
PICKTHAL Hast thou seen him who maketh his desire his god, and Allah sendeth him astray purposely, and sealeth up his hearing and his heart, and setteth on his sight a covering? Then who will lead him after Allah (hath condemned him)? Will ye not then heed?
SHAKIR Have you then considered him who takes his low desire for his god, and Allah has made him err having knowledge and has set a seal upon his ear and his heart and put a covering upon his eye. Who can then guide him after Allah? Will you not then be mindful?
(23)
-> See, it was not me, it was Yusuf Smart Ali, however the most accurate one who translated the word ?Hawa? should be PICKTHAL the way I see it
I just want to know what you understand with "vain desire"????? Can I it be "ego" instead of "vain desire"?
no it can?t be, the word ?Vain? is not in the arabic text therefore I?m not interetesed to include it, only the word desire is there as PICKTHAL successfully translated, but it should be logically understood ?his own desires about what God should be or whay He should did/do?
Well, for me, whether its "ego", "vain desire", or "feeling of having something that has the sense of self-importance", is not important as long as I understand the meaning..In Mandarin, a single "character" can explain something that takes 10 words to explain in English, but yet, it is all the same thing when you understand the meaning....
well, it can?t be ego, as ego means ?Kebria?a? and was used many times in the Quran
Anyway, for me, desire springs from the ego and love of self...
desires also can be motivated by the love to other things, therefore it can not include ego
peace
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..what I'm sure about that "Hawa" means "Desire", for example, "Ana Ahwa to fly all the time" means "I desire to fly all the time", "Ana Ahwa my wife" means "I desire my wife", not sure where ego can fit in here?
Simple, ask yourself, whats the meaning of the word "desire" in the first place and what made us to have the feeling of "desire"...knowing the meaning is not enough, understanding the meaning is more important..
it means "Raghbah" which means a human wants someting with passion, that something can be anything
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I?m sorry, it is not my translation, obviously you failed to recognise that it was translated by YUSUFALI
I have a copy of that translation with me..what I was trying to say is that, you were the one who referred to that transalation, and when I pasted the translation that I used, you said its wrong, so basically it means, mine is wrong and yours is the correct one..and now you're trying to say something else...man! Stop playing with words....!!!
it means "Raghbah" which means a human wants someting with passion, that something can be anything
What is passion??
passion
n 1 strong feeling or emotion
2 intense passion or emotion
3 something that is desired intensely; "his rage for fame
destroyed him"
4 an irrational but irresistible motive for a belief or actionso, what different does it make? you can see yourself, no matter how far you go..it comes back to the same meaning....
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Peace Ahmed,
as I said its so simple. its how you understand..you might want to say how is desire related to self-importance...well like u said just now, you desire your wife? Do you desire you wife for someone else or you do you desire your wife for yourself??? See...they key of it is the word "I", I love, I desire, I want, I hope,
when there is an "I', it is "self-importance" .. its how you understand what does it mean by "self-importance"...
I am not trying to say we must not have "ego"..we can't live without ego, but never let the ego control yourself...Again, its how you understand the word "ego"...
its like fire...we can't live without fire in this world..but once the fire is out of control...you know what will happen...
You know why we have so much arguments? Because we are trying to understand the "divine knowledge" in a human language...and worse, we are taking everything "literally"....
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I have a copy of that translation with me..what I was trying to say is that, you were the one who referred to that transalation, and when I pasted the translation that I used, you said its wrong, so basically it means, mine is wrong and yours is the correct one..and now you're trying to say something else...man! Stop playing with words....!!!
another nice try
look bro, I don't gice a fluke about what english translation it is, only the arabic text is the one that stands, we can have as much as billion translation but we only have one arabic text, so what is your point
Hawa" means desire, and sure the translation you have is damn wrong
it means "Raghbah" which means a human wants someting with passion, that something can be anything
What is passion??
passion
n 1 strong feeling or emotion
2 intense passion or emotion
3 something that is desired intensely; "his rage for fame
destroyed him"
4 an irrational but irresistible motive for a belief or actionso, what different does it make? you can see yourself, no matter how far you go..it comes back to the same meaning....
as I said I don't give a fluke about what dictiories you come up with or whaever pages of englsih words you copy and paste
Hawa = desire
"Ma Yantiq An Al Hawa", "He does not talk according to his desires"
do you know that verse?
also it seems you are the stretcher not me
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Hello zsrin
YUSUFALI Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
PICKTHAL Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire.
SHAKIR Nor does he speak out of desire.
(3)
I rest my case bro
Peace
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Peace,
another nice try
look bro, I don't gice a fluke about what english translation it is, only the arabic text is the one that stands, we can have as much as billion translation but we only have one arabic text, so what is your point
Hawa" means desire, and sure the translation you have is damn wrong
So, tell me, if English is wrong, all the translation is wrong..what made u think
your understanding of the Arabic text can't be wrong? If understanding Arabic means understanding Koran..Then, tell me why the Sunnis who speak Arabic out there failed to understand the Koran? What is your answer?Anyway,
SHAKIR Nor does he speak out of desire.
why not it be something like this
533 Nor does he speak out of ego(an exaggerated opinion of his own importance/his own need/his own belief) ?
As IdolFree said earlier, some people simply worshipping the language...
The language won't give you the "knowledge" but Allah does...You can be a Language expert or whatsoever..but without Allah giving you the knowledge...you will never get the knowledge...
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Peace,
For me, the translation can be wrong or whatsoever,..I just don't care, people who translated the Koran is just a normal human being, including the one who wrote your "Arabic Text"/Koran... But, for sure...If Allah want to let me have the knowledge, No matter whats the language...I'll still be able to understand...even without the "Koran"..
Yet, some people who knows so much of "Arabic" failed to even understand that Koran never explain to them anything...and that why we are all in this "forum" looking for explaination!!!!