the reading(quran) is not the title of any book
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but that is good enough for me to know that "Howa" means "Desire" clear as light
"...
ashr?na?man...y? kit?b al haww?
wa lem azal f? ec-cafhat el ?l?"(/nizar qabbani)
sure he was documenting his desires, possibly a love to a woman, or any thing elase that he desired and wanted to be documented so he spent 20 years documenting the desires
Peace bro
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..what I'm sure about that "Hawa" means "Desire", for example, "Ana Ahwa to fly all the time" means "I desire to fly all the time", "Ana Ahwa my wife" means "I desire my wife", not sure where ego can fit in here?
Simple, ask yourself, whats the meaning of the word "desire" in the first place and what made us to have the feeling of "desire"...knowing the meaning is not enough, understanding the meaning is more important..
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Ahmed,
Hello
I guess you're too proud of your "Arabic" that you failed to understand my question,
not sure about that, did you ask me the question in Arabic?
I asked you what do you understand with "vain desire"
and I told you I don?t give meanings to a language that I?m not fluent at, , if you aske me what ?Hawah?. ? ? means in Arabic or in English, I will be happy to answer that
you translated the verse as
"Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own VAIN DESIRE? Allah has, knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight. Who, then, will guide him after Allah (has withdrawn Guidance)? Will ye not then receive admonition? "
I?m sorry, it is not my translation, obviously you failed to recognise that it was translated by YUSUFALI
YUSUFALI Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own vain desire? Allah has, knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight. Who, then, will guide him after Allah (has withdrawn Guidance)? Will ye not then receive admonition?
PICKTHAL Hast thou seen him who maketh his desire his god, and Allah sendeth him astray purposely, and sealeth up his hearing and his heart, and setteth on his sight a covering? Then who will lead him after Allah (hath condemned him)? Will ye not then heed?
SHAKIR Have you then considered him who takes his low desire for his god, and Allah has made him err having knowledge and has set a seal upon his ear and his heart and put a covering upon his eye. Who can then guide him after Allah? Will you not then be mindful?
(23)
-> See, it was not me, it was Yusuf Smart Ali, however the most accurate one who translated the word ?Hawa? should be PICKTHAL the way I see it
I just want to know what you understand with "vain desire"????? Can I it be "ego" instead of "vain desire"?
no it can?t be, the word ?Vain? is not in the arabic text therefore I?m not interetesed to include it, only the word desire is there as PICKTHAL successfully translated, but it should be logically understood ?his own desires about what God should be or whay He should did/do?
Well, for me, whether its "ego", "vain desire", or "feeling of having something that has the sense of self-importance", is not important as long as I understand the meaning..In Mandarin, a single "character" can explain something that takes 10 words to explain in English, but yet, it is all the same thing when you understand the meaning....
well, it can?t be ego, as ego means ?Kebria?a? and was used many times in the Quran
Anyway, for me, desire springs from the ego and love of self...
desires also can be motivated by the love to other things, therefore it can not include ego
peace
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..what I'm sure about that "Hawa" means "Desire", for example, "Ana Ahwa to fly all the time" means "I desire to fly all the time", "Ana Ahwa my wife" means "I desire my wife", not sure where ego can fit in here?
Simple, ask yourself, whats the meaning of the word "desire" in the first place and what made us to have the feeling of "desire"...knowing the meaning is not enough, understanding the meaning is more important..
it means "Raghbah" which means a human wants someting with passion, that something can be anything
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I?m sorry, it is not my translation, obviously you failed to recognise that it was translated by YUSUFALI
I have a copy of that translation with me..what I was trying to say is that, you were the one who referred to that transalation, and when I pasted the translation that I used, you said its wrong, so basically it means, mine is wrong and yours is the correct one..and now you're trying to say something else...man! Stop playing with words....!!!
it means "Raghbah" which means a human wants someting with passion, that something can be anything
What is passion??
passion
n 1 strong feeling or emotion
2 intense passion or emotion
3 something that is desired intensely; "his rage for fame
destroyed him"
4 an irrational but irresistible motive for a belief or actionso, what different does it make? you can see yourself, no matter how far you go..it comes back to the same meaning....
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Peace Ahmed,
as I said its so simple. its how you understand..you might want to say how is desire related to self-importance...well like u said just now, you desire your wife? Do you desire you wife for someone else or you do you desire your wife for yourself??? See...they key of it is the word "I", I love, I desire, I want, I hope,
when there is an "I', it is "self-importance" .. its how you understand what does it mean by "self-importance"...
I am not trying to say we must not have "ego"..we can't live without ego, but never let the ego control yourself...Again, its how you understand the word "ego"...
its like fire...we can't live without fire in this world..but once the fire is out of control...you know what will happen...
You know why we have so much arguments? Because we are trying to understand the "divine knowledge" in a human language...and worse, we are taking everything "literally"....
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I have a copy of that translation with me..what I was trying to say is that, you were the one who referred to that transalation, and when I pasted the translation that I used, you said its wrong, so basically it means, mine is wrong and yours is the correct one..and now you're trying to say something else...man! Stop playing with words....!!!
another nice try
look bro, I don't gice a fluke about what english translation it is, only the arabic text is the one that stands, we can have as much as billion translation but we only have one arabic text, so what is your point
Hawa" means desire, and sure the translation you have is damn wrong
it means "Raghbah" which means a human wants someting with passion, that something can be anything
What is passion??
passion
n 1 strong feeling or emotion
2 intense passion or emotion
3 something that is desired intensely; "his rage for fame
destroyed him"
4 an irrational but irresistible motive for a belief or actionso, what different does it make? you can see yourself, no matter how far you go..it comes back to the same meaning....
as I said I don't give a fluke about what dictiories you come up with or whaever pages of englsih words you copy and paste
Hawa = desire
"Ma Yantiq An Al Hawa", "He does not talk according to his desires"
do you know that verse?
also it seems you are the stretcher not me
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Hello zsrin
YUSUFALI Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
PICKTHAL Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire.
SHAKIR Nor does he speak out of desire.
(3)
I rest my case bro
Peace
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Peace,
another nice try
look bro, I don't gice a fluke about what english translation it is, only the arabic text is the one that stands, we can have as much as billion translation but we only have one arabic text, so what is your point
Hawa" means desire, and sure the translation you have is damn wrong
So, tell me, if English is wrong, all the translation is wrong..what made u think
your understanding of the Arabic text can't be wrong? If understanding Arabic means understanding Koran..Then, tell me why the Sunnis who speak Arabic out there failed to understand the Koran? What is your answer?Anyway,
SHAKIR Nor does he speak out of desire.
why not it be something like this
533 Nor does he speak out of ego(an exaggerated opinion of his own importance/his own need/his own belief) ?
As IdolFree said earlier, some people simply worshipping the language...
The language won't give you the "knowledge" but Allah does...You can be a Language expert or whatsoever..but without Allah giving you the knowledge...you will never get the knowledge...
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Peace,
For me, the translation can be wrong or whatsoever,..I just don't care, people who translated the Koran is just a normal human being, including the one who wrote your "Arabic Text"/Koran... But, for sure...If Allah want to let me have the knowledge, No matter whats the language...I'll still be able to understand...even without the "Koran"..
Yet, some people who knows so much of "Arabic" failed to even understand that Koran never explain to them anything...and that why we are all in this "forum" looking for explaination!!!!
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Peace,
Hi
So, tell me, if English is wrong, all the translation is wrong..what made u think
your understanding of the Arabic text can't be wrong?because I'm a fluent native arabic speaker as well the word "Hawa" is bloody common, in fact it is a common word in most arabic songs
Abd Al Halim Hafez, a very popular egyptian singer "he is dead now" used to sing, "El Hawa Hawaya" lol which means "The desire is my desire", if it means "The ego is my ego" the arabs would have laughed at him lol
If understanding Arabic means understanding Koran..Then, tell me why the Sunnis who speak Arabic out there failed to understand the Koran? What is your answer?
to be honest I don't give a fluke in HOW they got it wrong, but what I will fluke about is exposing their flaw
Anyway,
SHAKIR Nor does he speak out of desire.
why not it be something like this
533 Nor does he speak out of ego(an exaggerated opinion of his own importance/his own need/his own belief) ?
because Hawa does not mean ego, therefore the above translation must be classified as a lie, a manipulation and 100% misleading
As IdolFree said earlier, some people simply worshipping the language...
I consider Idlolfree not a true believer in the Quran, in effect i consider that he too followed a god, his Hawa made for himself, no offence it is the truth according to the Quran, and the truth always hurts as well not many can handle it
The language won't give you the "knowledge" but Allah...
what is your point?
the knowledge given, is represented in words that is represented using something called a language, all languages were created by God any way, do you know that verse?
You can be a Language expert or whatsoever..but without Allah giving you the knowledge...you will never get the knowledge...
cool, I finally agree with something you said
happy new year
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Peace,
Hi
For me, the translation can be wrong or whatsoever,..I just don't care, people who translated the Koran is just a normal human being,
now you conceded that the english tranalation can be easily wrong, good, I reckon santa will good to you
including the one who wrote your "Arabic Text"/Koran...
that is a bit of a stretch bro, the arabci Quran is one text since revelation can you show two different Arabic Quran that are for sale, like the many english translatipons for sale?
so leave the arabic alone as you have no knowledge about it and according to 1736 "DO NOT ARGUE IF YOU LACK KNOWLEDGE",
I say if you do not, Santa is not going to be good to you this xmas
But, for sure...If Allah want to let me have the knowledge, No matter whats the language...I'll still be able to understand...even without the "Koran"..
not sure what you mean by still understand wiothout the Quran? what you will still understand? can you be specific?
Yet, some people who knows so much of "Arabic" failed to even understand that Koran never explain to them anything...
this is a clear cut non sense, the quran explains every thing we need to prosper as well it explains itself in the most accurate of ways
and that why we are all in this "forum" looking for explaination!!!!
well, explanation to what exactly?, can you be more specific, is it life, quran, hell, god,...... there are many things that are needed to be explained, and sure most are explained in the perfect and complete arabic quran
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Peace,
And when We change (one) communication for (another) communication, and Allah knows best what He reveals, they say You are only a forger. Nay, most of them do not know. - Shakir
16 101. When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger" but most of them understand not. - Yusuf Ali
16 101 And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth - they say Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not.- Pickthall
16102 And if We exchange a verse in place of another verse; and God is more aware of what He is revealing; they Say "You are making this up!" Alas, most of them do not know. - Free Mind
Today, I can see it myself the meaning of the verse above...
Man, again I wanna ask you...what do you understand by the English word "ego"????????? that made you to say that it is wrong??
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that is a bit of a stretch bro, the arabci Quran is one text since revelation can you show two different Arabic Quran that are for sale, like the many english translatipons for sale?
Again, you don't get my message...Did I say Quran? I said "Koran" and I have seen hundreds type of Koran...Big, small, black and white, or coloured version...
so leave the arabic alone as you have no knowledge about it and according to 1736 "DO NOT ARGUE IF YOU LACK KNOWLEDGE",
Ohya..from where you got the translation for the above verse? can you please tell me...how it is translated as "argue"????
Are you suggesting that we should "follow/accept blindly" if we can't argue???
Yes, I am always lack of knowledge...Thats why I always look for answers...But I don't "follow blindly" as Knowledge came from answers and answers came from questions and if nobody argues...it means everyone has found the "truth"....
not sure what you mean by still understand wiothout the Quran? what you will still understand? can you be specific?
I said "koran" not "Quran"..again you are twisting your words..
this is a clear cut non sense, the quran explains every thing we need to prosper as well it explains itself in the most accurate of ways
Can you tell me where on "Koran" I can find an explaination on how to use "Adobe Photoshop"? I want to learn it but still looking for the best book to learn that subject..
well, explanation to what exactly?, can you be more specific, is it life, quran, hell, god,...... there are many things that are needed to be explained, and sure most are explained in the perfect and complete arabic quran
and now you say "most"..I thought you said it explains everything?Ok, nevermind, I need to learn "photoshop" can you please show me a verse that will explain to me about photoshop??
thanks...
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"...
ashr?na?man...y? kit?b al haww?
wa lem azal f? ec-cafhat el ?l?"(/nizar qabbani)
sure he was documenting his desires, possibly a love to a woman, or any thing elase that he desired and wanted to be documented so he spent 20 years documenting the desires
Peace bro
I know what it means damn well since I'm translating from Arabic to Swedish and currently Nizars poetry. I just wanted to show it to you, that's all, but that was a mistake.
What is your native language Ahmed?
And one more thing, you haven't respond to my latest post...
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Peace,
And when We change (one) communication for (another) communication, and Allah knows best what He reveals, they say You are only a forger. Nay, most of them do not know. - Shakir
16 101. When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger" but most of them understand not. - Yusuf Ali
16 101 And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth - they say Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not.- Pickthall
16102 And if We exchange a verse in place of another verse; and God is more aware of what He is revealing; they Say "You are making this up!" Alas, most of them do not know. - Free Mind
Today, I can see it myself the meaning of the verse above...
Shakir translation is 100% wrong, there is no such word that ean communication in the arabic text
Man, again I wanna ask you...what do you understand by the English word "ego"????????? that made you to say that it is wrong??
Ego = self pride and the ones who have ego I consider them arrogant
see, that does not mean "Hawa", because Hawa is a desire not self pride, unless I understand ego wrong
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I know what it means damn well since I'm translating from Arabic to Swedish
but I don't read swedish
and currently Nizars poetry. I just wanted to show it to you, that's all, but that was a mistake.
bro, at least say a message with it so I know what you mean
What is your native language Ahmed?
I believe i told this before, I wonder why you aske me the same question again
And one more thing, you haven't respond to my latest post...
ok I wil have a look, too may things I have to respond to, but I will respond
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Ahmed,
I see where you're heading but I haven't yet figured out what cannot be reproduced similar to the Koran.
Hello mate
here it is
The challenge, is to produce in Arabic , three lines, that do not fall into one of the sixteen al-Bihar of the Quran, that is not rhyming prose, nor like the speech of soothsayers, and not normal speech, that it should contain at least a comprehensible meaning and rhetoric, i.e. not gobbledygook.
The Koran is written in a grammatically not too interesting manner.
I'm sorry Tne grammar in the Quran is in the most excelent manner it can get, I have done great researches on that and will receive a massive reference about the grammar in the Quranm "in arabic" in about 4 weeks to prove it to all
The grammar is not too difficult and it is clear,
I'm sorry, you lack knowedge here, the grammar in the Quran is very tough and not for the faint hearted, I can prove what i said easily but with only native arabic speakers
but still pretty poor.
sorry bro, you are 100% wrong, as I said the grammar in the Quran is in the most excelence manner, the modern arabic used now is the one that should be described as poor
It is what I would call the end of ancient and primitive Semitic languages. Modern compared to its ancestors, but still not too complex or refined. This is the Quraishi Arabic of the Koran.
there is no such thing called Quraishi arabic, lol and sure the use of the arabic language in the Quran is not primitive and only incline that the author KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS COMPLEX LANGUAGE
Since no one really doesn?t speak the language any longer (and the assertion that there was no distinctive difference between street and literal language, cannot really be confirmed, can it?) it is obviously more difficult for someone to create a language similar too it. But it can still be made.
The Quran Arabic always sounds modrn to me, the Arabic I hear from other arabic speakers is the one I call primitive, not accurate and full of grammar errors
Let?s just take Sanskrit as an example. An extremely old and complex language that I for myself is fully able to write just like the old Hindu writers did thousands of years ago. So what would be different about the Quraishi Arabic of the Koran? I can?t figure it out!
sorry I'm not comparing the Quran arabic with the Sanskrit because you can't compare two different things
for example you can cmpare the Egyptaiin Arabic with the Iraqi Arabic but not with chinease
and again there is no sich thing called qurashi arabic, unless you mean the qurish people accent?, if this is the case then the quran was not written in their accent because non of them managed to produce a sura like it
If someone about 1400, 1300 years ago perceived this ?challenge? the same way you do and did come up with ?something similar to it?, we can?t really know, can we?
well we can resport to the history records and enahance our knowledge, at least there is no record as such that someone manged to do it as if there is any I reckon that person will be the most famous person in the world who maged to beat the Quran challenge
salam
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see, that does not mean "Hawa", because Hawa is a desire not self pride, unless I understand ego wrong
Its not wrong..but your understanding is too narrow....
being a person with ego never mean arrogant.... one is an arrogant person when he/she let his/her ego control himself/herself...
in the dictionary
ego means self-pride / self-importance / self-esteem/
when you say you desire something...it means you "want/hope/wish/"
desire
n 1 the feeling that accompanies an unsatisfied state
2 an inclination to want things;so, when you want something... isn't that lead to ego? self-importance? as you said...you love your wife? isn't that mean you want / have passion of her? So, isn't that mean self-importance???
you can't just look at the meaning on the surface, its like reading a poem....u need to look at it deeper...
p/s I wonder if any of you could understand my explaination...