the reading(quran) is not the title of any book

zsrin

Peace,

another nice try

look bro, I don't gice a fluke about what english translation it is, only the arabic text is the one that stands, we can have as much as billion translation but we only have one arabic text, so what is your point

Hawa" means desire, and sure the translation you have is damn wrong

So, tell me, if English is wrong, all the translation is wrong..what made u think
your understanding of the Arabic text can't be wrong? If understanding Arabic means understanding Koran..Then, tell me why the Sunnis who speak Arabic out there failed to understand the Koran? What is your answer?

Anyway,

SHAKIR Nor does he speak out of desire.

why not it be something like this

533 Nor does he speak out of ego(an exaggerated opinion of his own importance/his own need/his own belief) ?

As IdolFree said earlier, some people simply worshipping the language...

The language won't give you the "knowledge" but Allah does...You can be a Language expert or whatsoever..but without Allah giving you the knowledge...you will never get the knowledge...

zsrin

Peace,

For me, the translation can be wrong or whatsoever,..I just don't care, people who translated the Koran is just a normal human being, including the one who wrote your "Arabic Text"/Koran... But, for sure...If Allah want to let me have the knowledge, No matter whats the language...I'll still be able to understand...even without the "Koran"..

Yet, some people who knows so much of "Arabic" failed to even understand that Koran never explain to them anything...and that why we are all in this "forum" looking for explaination!!!!

zsrin

Idolfree you know what.. I really need some meditation...Its hard to make people to think "outside the box"....

unknownuser

Peace,

Hi

So, tell me, if English is wrong, all the translation is wrong..what made u think
your understanding of the Arabic text can't be wrong?

because I'm a fluent native arabic speaker as well the word "Hawa" is bloody common, in fact it is a common word in most arabic songs

Abd Al Halim Hafez, a very popular egyptian singer "he is dead now" used to sing, "El Hawa Hawaya" lol which means "The desire is my desire", if it means "The ego is my ego" the arabs would have laughed at him lol

If understanding Arabic means understanding Koran..Then, tell me why the Sunnis who speak Arabic out there failed to understand the Koran? What is your answer?

to be honest I don't give a fluke in HOW they got it wrong, but what I will fluke about is exposing their flaw

Anyway,

SHAKIR Nor does he speak out of desire.

why not it be something like this

533 Nor does he speak out of ego(an exaggerated opinion of his own importance/his own need/his own belief) ?

because Hawa does not mean ego, therefore the above translation must be classified as a lie, a manipulation and 100% misleading

As IdolFree said earlier, some people simply worshipping the language...

I consider Idlolfree not a true believer in the Quran, in effect i consider that he too followed a god, his Hawa made for himself, no offence it is the truth according to the Quran, and the truth always hurts as well not many can handle it

The language won't give you the "knowledge" but Allah...

what is your point?

the knowledge given, is represented in words that is represented using something called a language, all languages were created by God any way, do you know that verse?

You can be a Language expert or whatsoever..but without Allah giving you the knowledge...you will never get the knowledge...

cool, I finally agree with something you said

happy new year

unknownuser

Peace,

Hi

For me, the translation can be wrong or whatsoever,..I just don't care, people who translated the Koran is just a normal human being,

now you conceded that the english tranalation can be easily wrong, good, I reckon santa will good to you

including the one who wrote your "Arabic Text"/Koran...

that is a bit of a stretch bro, the arabci Quran is one text since revelation can you show two different Arabic Quran that are for sale, like the many english translatipons for sale?

so leave the arabic alone as you have no knowledge about it and according to 1736 "DO NOT ARGUE IF YOU LACK KNOWLEDGE",

I say if you do not, Santa is not going to be good to you this xmas

But, for sure...If Allah want to let me have the knowledge, No matter whats the language...I'll still be able to understand...even without the "Koran"..

not sure what you mean by still understand wiothout the Quran? what you will still understand? can you be specific?

Yet, some people who knows so much of "Arabic" failed to even understand that Koran never explain to them anything...

this is a clear cut non sense, the quran explains every thing we need to prosper as well it explains itself in the most accurate of ways

and that why we are all in this "forum" looking for explaination!!!!

well, explanation to what exactly?, can you be more specific, is it life, quran, hell, god,...... there are many things that are needed to be explained, and sure most are explained in the perfect and complete arabic quran

zsrin

Peace,

And when We change (one) communication for (another) communication, and Allah knows best what He reveals, they say You are only a forger. Nay, most of them do not know. - Shakir

16 101. When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger" but most of them understand not. - Yusuf Ali

16 101 And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth - they say Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not.- Pickthall

16102 And if We exchange a verse in place of another verse; and God is more aware of what He is revealing; they Say "You are making this up!" Alas, most of them do not know. - Free Mind

Today, I can see it myself the meaning of the verse above...

Man, again I wanna ask you...what do you understand by the English word "ego"????????? that made you to say that it is wrong??

zsrin

that is a bit of a stretch bro, the arabci Quran is one text since revelation can you show two different Arabic Quran that are for sale, like the many english translatipons for sale?

Again, you don't get my message...Did I say Quran? I said "Koran" and I have seen hundreds type of Koran...Big, small, black and white, or coloured version...

so leave the arabic alone as you have no knowledge about it and according to 1736 "DO NOT ARGUE IF YOU LACK KNOWLEDGE",

Ohya..from where you got the translation for the above verse? can you please tell me...how it is translated as "argue"????

Are you suggesting that we should "follow/accept blindly" if we can't argue???

Yes, I am always lack of knowledge...Thats why I always look for answers...But I don't "follow blindly" as Knowledge came from answers and answers came from questions and if nobody argues...it means everyone has found the "truth"....

not sure what you mean by still understand wiothout the Quran? what you will still understand? can you be specific?

I said "koran" not "Quran"..again you are twisting your words..

this is a clear cut non sense, the quran explains every thing we need to prosper as well it explains itself in the most accurate of ways

Can you tell me where on "Koran" I can find an explaination on how to use "Adobe Photoshop"? I want to learn it but still looking for the best book to learn that subject..

well, explanation to what exactly?, can you be more specific, is it life, quran, hell, god,...... there are many things that are needed to be explained, and sure most are explained in the perfect and complete arabic quran

and now you say "most"..I thought you said it explains everything?Ok, nevermind, I need to learn "photoshop" can you please show me a verse that will explain to me about photoshop??

thanks...

el-Aziz

"...ashr?na ?man...y? kit?b al haww?
wa lem azal f? ec-cafhat el ?l?"

(/nizar qabbani)

sure he was documenting his desires, possibly a love to a woman, or any thing elase that he desired and wanted to be documented so he spent 20 years documenting the desires

Peace bro

I know what it means damn well since I'm translating from Arabic to Swedish and currently Nizars poetry. I just wanted to show it to you, that's all, but that was a mistake.

What is your native language Ahmed?

And one more thing, you haven't respond to my latest post...

unknownuser

Peace,

And when We change (one) communication for (another) communication, and Allah knows best what He reveals, they say You are only a forger. Nay, most of them do not know. - Shakir

16 101. When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger" but most of them understand not. - Yusuf Ali

16 101 And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth - they say Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not.- Pickthall

16102 And if We exchange a verse in place of another verse; and God is more aware of what He is revealing; they Say "You are making this up!" Alas, most of them do not know. - Free Mind

Today, I can see it myself the meaning of the verse above...

Shakir translation is 100% wrong, there is no such word that ean communication in the arabic text

Man, again I wanna ask you...what do you understand by the English word "ego"????????? that made you to say that it is wrong??

Ego = self pride and the ones who have ego I consider them arrogant

see, that does not mean "Hawa", because Hawa is a desire not self pride, unless I understand ego wrong

unknownuser

I know what it means damn well since I'm translating from Arabic to Swedish

but I don't read swedish

and currently Nizars poetry. I just wanted to show it to you, that's all, but that was a mistake.

bro, at least say a message with it so I know what you mean

What is your native language Ahmed?

I believe i told this before, I wonder why you aske me the same question again

And one more thing, you haven't respond to my latest post...

ok I wil have a look, too may things I have to respond to, but I will respond

unknownuser

Ahmed,

I see where you're heading but I haven't yet figured out what cannot be reproduced similar to the Koran.

Hello mate

here it is

The challenge, is to produce in Arabic , three lines, that do not fall into one of the sixteen al-Bihar of the Quran, that is not rhyming prose, nor like the speech of soothsayers, and not normal speech, that it should contain at least a comprehensible meaning and rhetoric, i.e. not gobbledygook.

The Koran is written in a grammatically not too interesting manner.

I'm sorry Tne grammar in the Quran is in the most excelent manner it can get, I have done great researches on that and will receive a massive reference about the grammar in the Quranm "in arabic" in about 4 weeks to prove it to all

The grammar is not too difficult and it is clear,

I'm sorry, you lack knowedge here, the grammar in the Quran is very tough and not for the faint hearted, I can prove what i said easily but with only native arabic speakers

but still pretty poor.

sorry bro, you are 100% wrong, as I said the grammar in the Quran is in the most excelence manner, the modern arabic used now is the one that should be described as poor

It is what I would call the end of ancient and primitive Semitic languages. Modern compared to its ancestors, but still not too complex or refined. This is the Quraishi Arabic of the Koran.

there is no such thing called Quraishi arabic, lol and sure the use of the arabic language in the Quran is not primitive and only incline that the author KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS COMPLEX LANGUAGE

Since no one really doesn?t speak the language any longer (and the assertion that there was no distinctive difference between street and literal language, cannot really be confirmed, can it?) it is obviously more difficult for someone to create a language similar too it. But it can still be made.

The Quran Arabic always sounds modrn to me, the Arabic I hear from other arabic speakers is the one I call primitive, not accurate and full of grammar errors

Let?s just take Sanskrit as an example. An extremely old and complex language that I for myself is fully able to write just like the old Hindu writers did thousands of years ago. So what would be different about the Quraishi Arabic of the Koran? I can?t figure it out!

sorry I'm not comparing the Quran arabic with the Sanskrit because you can't compare two different things

for example you can cmpare the Egyptaiin Arabic with the Iraqi Arabic but not with chinease

and again there is no sich thing called qurashi arabic, unless you mean the qurish people accent?, if this is the case then the quran was not written in their accent because non of them managed to produce a sura like it

If someone about 1400, 1300 years ago perceived this ?challenge? the same way you do and did come up with ?something similar to it?, we can?t really know, can we?

well we can resport to the history records and enahance our knowledge, at least there is no record as such that someone manged to do it as if there is any I reckon that person will be the most famous person in the world who maged to beat the Quran challenge

salam

zsrin

see, that does not mean "Hawa", because Hawa is a desire not self pride, unless I understand ego wrong

Its not wrong..but your understanding is too narrow....

being a person with ego never mean arrogant.... one is an arrogant person when he/she let his/her ego control himself/herself...

in the dictionary

ego means self-pride / self-importance / self-esteem/

when you say you desire something...it means you "want/hope/wish/"

desire

n 1 the feeling that accompanies an unsatisfied state
2 an inclination to want things;

so, when you want something... isn't that lead to ego? self-importance? as you said...you love your wife? isn't that mean you want / have passion of her? So, isn't that mean self-importance???

you can't just look at the meaning on the surface, its like reading a poem....u need to look at it deeper...

p/s I wonder if any of you could understand my explaination...

unknownuser

see, that does not mean "Hawa", because Hawa is a desire not self pride, unless I understand ego wrong

Its not wrong..but your understanding is too narrow....

sure narrow, because I donlt stretch things to suit my "Hawa", I mean my "Desire"

but I still insist that "hawa" does not mean "ego" and now I consider this a lie

being a person with ego never mean arrogant....arrogant, one is an arrogant person when he/she let his ego control himself...

that is fine, i never claimed to be a flunet english speaker to translate an english word to another, you were just wasting my time with a very weak argument

in the dictionary

ego means self-pride / self-importance / self-esteem/

so?

when you say you desire something...it means you "want/hope/wish/"

that if you use it as a verb but as a noun desire means desiter = Hawa

desire

n 1 the feeling that accompanies an unsatisfied state
2 an inclination to want things;

as a verb yes

as noun desire means desire = Hawa

so, when you want something... isn't that lead to ego?

I don't think so

self-importance? as you said...you love your wife? isn't that mean you want / have passion of her? So, isn't that mean self-important???

I don't think so

you can't just look at the meaning on the surface, its like reading a poem....u need to look at it deeper...

do you mean stretching it?

p/s I wonder if any of you could understand my explaination...

no me

desire = hawa

unknownuser

Hi zsrin,

see, that does not mean "Hawa", because Hawa is a desire not self pride, unless I understand ego wrong

Its not wrong..but your understanding is too narrow....
being a person with ego never mean arrogant.... one is an arrogant person when he/she let his/her ego control himself/herself...
in the dictionary

ego means self-pride / self-importance / self-esteem/

Ego means ''An exaggerated sense of self-importance''. similiary exaggerated self-esteem or self pride. it has a negative connotation to it.

Peace!

zsrin

that if you use it as a verb but as a noun desire means desiter = Hawa

zsrin wrote
desire

n 1 the feeling that accompanies an unsatisfied state
2 an inclination to want things;

as a verb yes

as noun desire means desire = Hawa

are you blind or something?????? The above is a "noun"! Look carefully!

desire

n 1 the feeling that accompanies an unsatisfied state
2 an inclination to want things;

unknownuser

that is a bit of a stretch bro, the arabci Quran is one text since revelation can you show two different Arabic Quran that are for sale, like the many english translatipons for sale?

Again, you don't get my message...Did I say Quran? I said "Koran" and I have seen hundreds type of Koran...Big, small, black and white, or coloured version...

Quran = Koran =

nice try regrarding the coloured Qurans you saw, lol I saw them too, but is the arabic texts between them are different? this may take you a few years to verify

so leave the arabic alone as you have no knowledge about it and according to 1736 "DO NOT ARGUE IF YOU LACK KNOWLEDGE",

Ohya..from where you got the translation for the above verse? can you please tell me...how it is translated as "argue"????

La Taqif, means do not stand, or don't stop at things that you lack knowledge in, EXACTLY AS WHAT YOU ARE DOING lol

we have a pefect match ladies and gents wink

Are you suggesting that we should "follow/accept blindly" if we can't argue???

No,

i never said that

Yes, I am always lack of knowledge...Thats why I always look for answers...

good but don't argue if you lack knowedge, 1736

But I don't "follow blindly" as Knowledge came from answers and answers came from questions and if nobody argues...it means everyone has found the "truth"....

sure, I don't follow blindly either, but I don't argue when I lack knowledge, 1736

not sure what you mean by still understand wiothout the Quran? what you will still understand? can you be specific?

I said "koran" not "Quran"..again you are twisting your words..

Quran = Koran =

this is a clear cut non sense, the quran explains every thing we need to prosper as well it explains itself in the most accurate of ways

Can you tell me where on "Koran" I can find an explaination on how to use "Adobe Photoshop"? I want to learn it but still looking for the best book to learn that subject..

not sure if you need to know adobe photo shop to prosper lol

haha, thanks for the laugh,

try the bible, at least we know it was corrupt by humans possibly they inserted it there?, not sure wink

well, explanation to what exactly?, can you be more specific, is it life, quran, hell, god,...... there are many things that are needed to be explained, and sure most are explained in the perfect and complete arabic quran

and now you say "most"..I thought you said it explains everything?

a lie

i highlighted what i said in red

I said EVERYTHING WE NEED TO PROSPER

Ok, nevermind,

sure I should nevermind because it was a lie

I need to learn "photoshop" can you please show me a verse that will explain to me about photoshop?

as I suggested try the bible

thanks...

no worries

zsrin

Hi zsrin,

see, that does not mean "Hawa", because Hawa is a desire not self pride, unless I understand ego wrong

Its not wrong..but your understanding is too narrow....
being a person with ego never mean arrogant.... one is an arrogant person when he/she let his/her ego control himself/herself...
in the dictionary

ego means self-pride / self-importance / self-esteem/

Ego means ''An exaggerated sense of self-importance''. similiary exaggerated self-esteem or self pride. it has a negative connotation to it.

Peace!

its not neccessarily "exaggerated"...It can also be just

Appropriate pride in oneself; self-esteem.

http//www.answers.com/topic/ego

As I said, it depends on how far u understand the word...

unknownuser

that if you use it as a verb but as a noun desire means desiter = Hawa

zsrin wrote
desire

n 1 the feeling that accompanies an unsatisfied state
2 an inclination to want things;

as a verb yes

as noun desire means desire = Hawa

are you blind or something?????? The above is a "noun"! Look carefully!

desire

n 1 the feeling that accompanies an unsatisfied state
2 an inclination to want things;

well read above 6/6, your copy and past dictinart says

an inclination to want things

TO BLOODY WANT

would that sound like a verb to you?

what a confuser you are

unknownuser

it is 1200 am 1/1/2006 in sydney

I wish all a happy new year and I wish Islam to come back strong and united in this year

peace

zsrin

zsrin wrote
Ohya..from where you got the translation for the above verse? can you please tell me...how it is translated as "argue"????

La Taqif, means do not stand, or don't stop at things that you lack knowledge in, EXACTLY AS WHAT YOU ARE DOING Laughing

See, you proved it yourself who is playing with words...U explained that it means "do not stand", "don't stop"....but then you translated it as "argue"..Do you know what "argue" means??

To put forth reasons for or against; debate
To attempt to prove by reasoning; maintain or contend The speaker argued that more immigrants should be admitted to the country.
To give evidence of; indicate
To persuade or influence (another), as by presenting reasons argued the clerk into lowering the price.