the reading(quran) is not the title of any book
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Peace be upon you Agentxxx,
quran was not compiled/collected as a book before all the 114 suras were revealed.
Exactly! D
so while studying 122/482/7204 etc if we take the word "quran" for a book it will confuse us sinse at the time of the revelation of these verses there was no book, it used to confuse me and I agree with you that quran does not mean the tittle of a book.The meaning "reading" seems more logical to me.
Absolutely. It takes a lot of courage to see it this way. Many of us are constantly conditioned to see it the other way because this word is harldy ever translated and always capatalized. Brother Ayman wrote a very eye opening article that you should read if you havent.
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm
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Hi Idolfree1,
What according to u, is the book traditionally called 'Quran', containing 114 chapters?
Whose words are those?Peace!
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i meant that if the Quran doesnt claim to be form God , then what do u verify in it ? if nothing in the Quran claims to be from God .
or if anything at all is true then it is the word of God ?
Hi Idolfree1,
What according to u, is the book traditionally called 'Quran', containing 114 chapters?
Whose words are those?Peace!
and what does Quran(the book) say about itself ?
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Peace be upon you PM,
What according to u, is the book traditionally called 'Quran', containing 114 chapters?
If it is verifyable truth, then it is the God's word. I am finiding it to be the God's word, written through man of course.
Whose words are those?
If truth, they are God's words through man. If yuo are asking what man, then i cannot answer to that which I did not witness.
(2844) And you were not at the western's side/direction when We completed/informed to Moses the matter/affair/order/command, and you were not from the witnessing(alshshahideena).
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SaLaM Saladin
Surely, those who have rejected the Reminder when it came to them; and it is an Honourable Scripture.
The Quran refers to itself has 'kitabul aziz' / honourable book.
salam .
i agree with you . i was only asking idolfree his opinion about what Quran says about itself. -
Peace be upon you ,
(4141) Surely those who rejected with the reminder when (it) came to them, and surely it is glorious/honorable Universal Law(kitaab).
WHen someone tells you not to smoke because it destroys your lungs, dont reject universal law. Or when they tell you to treat others kindly, don reject universal law.
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What according to u, is the book traditionally called 'Quran', containing 114 chapters?
If it is verifyable truth, then it is the God's word. I am finiding it to be the God's word, written through man of course.
u r saying that every verifiable truth is God's word ?
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Peace be upon you,
u r saying that every verifiable truth is God's word ?
Absolutely 100%
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Hi idolfree1,
What according to u, is the book traditionally called 'Quran', containing 114 chapters?
If it is verifyable truth, then it is the God's word. I am finiding it to be the God's word, written through man of course.
981 Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, were not going to depart (from their ways) until there should come to them Clear Evidence,-
982 An apostle from Allah, rehearsing scriptures kept pure and holy
983 Wherein are laws (or decrees) right and straight.
984 Nor did the People of the Book make schisms, until after there came to them Clear Evidence.
985 And they have been commanded no more than this To worship Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being true (in faith); to establish regular prayer; and to practise regular charity; and that is the Religion Right and Straight.
986 Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.
987 Those who have faith and do righteous deeds,- they are the best of creatures.
988 Their reward is with Allah. Gardens of Eternity, beneath which rivers flow; they will dwell therein for ever; Allah well pleased with them, and they with Him all this for such as fear their Lord and Cherisher.Who is ''commanding'' us in the above verses?
And who is the ''apostle to whom the scripture is rehearsed''?Peace!
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Peace be upon you Saladin,
Quote
u r saying that every verifiable truth is God's word ?Absolutely 100%
how do u conclude that ?
It is TRUTH that guides, nothing else. So who else brings truth to man but the God?
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Peace be upon you,
981 Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, were not going to depart (from their ways) until there should come to them Clear Evidence,-
982 An apostle from Allah, rehearsing scriptures kept pure and holy
983 Wherein are laws (or decrees) right and straight.
984 Nor did the People of the Book make schisms, until after there came to them Clear Evidence.
985 And they have been commanded no more than this To worship Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being true (in faith); to establish regular prayer; and to practise regular charity; and that is the Religion Right and Straight.
986 Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.
987 Those who have faith and do righteous deeds,- they are the best of creatures.
988 Their reward is with Allah. Gardens of Eternity, beneath which rivers flow; they will dwell therein for ever; Allah well pleased with them, and they with Him all this for such as fear their Lord and Cherisher.Who is ''commanding'' us in the above verses?
It is the God who "commands", but dont take "command" to literally, if teh God were to "command", then we would all be robots, but we have free will, to choose to follow the "commands". It is Universal Law that beats us up when we do wrong, and this LAW was set in place by the The All Powerful.
And who is the ''apostle to whom the scripture is rehearsed''?
Rasool is messenger, I dont use apostle. The "pages" are rehearsed to ANYONE who raises to that level. Universal Law is made clear to the serious student. We all have within us the potential to be a prophet and messenger. MOst will never make it to prophet, but many are messengers. Anytime you deliver truth to someone, you are a messenger(only during the act of delivering).
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SaLaM idolfree
Peace be upon you ,
(4141) Surely those who rejected with the reminder when (it) came to them, and surely it is glorious/honorable Universal Law(kitaab).
WHen someone tells you not to smoke because it destroys your lungs, dont reject universal law. Or when they tell you to treat others kindly, don reject universal law.
The verse is clearly refering to the Quran as a book. 'KITAB'. Not law. Well, i would have pasted the arabic verse but i dont know how to get the arabic verse. Can anyone tell me how i can copy paste the arabic verses?
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Peace be upon you Saladin,
- does the Quran ever refer to itself ?
Bring some verses so we can look it over.
- does the Quran claim to be the word of God ?
Statements(quran) that are verified to be true(haqq) are the word of the God.
- what is the importance of the Quran ?
You are asking what is the importance of the 114 chapters? Assuming it is all truth, then it is a guide for mankind.
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salam .
- does the Quran ever refer to itself ?
Bring some verses so we can look it over.
i believe that all the verses that Jaxal has posted refer to the Quran . but i was asking your opinion . does it ever refer to itself ?
- does the Quran claim to be the word of God ?
Statements(quran) that are verified to be true(haqq) are the word of the God.
i was talking about the 114 chaptered Quran . does it claim to be God's word ?
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Peace be upon you Saladin,
i believe that all the verses that Jaxal has posted refer to the Quran . but i was asking your opinion . does it ever refer to itself ?
The message points us to the signs of the universe, from the horizons to within our spirits. It does not tell us to remain focused inside 114 chapters.
i was talking about the 114 chaptered Quran . does it claim to be God's word ?
Since "quran' does not mean 114 chaptered book, then no. However the God teh TRUTH if from the God and if the 114 chapters are Truth, then it is from the God. If there is a specific verse you want to discuss, please bring it foward.
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salam idolfree .
Peace be upon you Saladin,
i believe that all the verses that Jaxal has posted refer to the Quran . but i was asking your opinion . does it ever refer to itself ?
The message points us to the signs of the universe, from the horizons to within our spirits. It does not tell us to remain focused inside 114 chapters.
so thats a "no" ?
that sounds strange . the book that points us to so many things from horizon to within ourselves and covers so many topics , doesnt ever refer to itself ? it doesnt ever tell anything about itself ? it doesnt even tell what it's purpose is ?
even in its beginning , in surah baqrah , when the Quran says ?this is the book whereof there is no doubt(zalik al kitab la raib feeh)? ; the book is referring to itself , it is introducing itself . Quran itself is a book . why in the world would this book/kitab refer to some book/kitab(universe, u say) other than itself ?
i was talking about the 114 chaptered Quran . does it claim to be God's word ?
Since "quran' does not mean 114 chaptered book, then no. However the God teh TRUTH if from the God and if the 114 chapters are Truth, then it is from the God. If there is a specific verse you want to discuss, please bring it foward.
check out this article
Koran and Self-Reference http//members.aol.com/silence004/godel.htm
salam.