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  4. Is the Black stone god Shiva?

Is the Black stone god Shiva?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Pilgrimage (Hajj)
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  • B Offline
    B Offline
    bmbmm
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Something I never understood is why we have to bow and spin anti-clockwise around a cube in the desert with a black stone?

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    • K Offline
      K Offline
      Komla
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      My salaam,it`s funny how back then,i never asked questions about that,but now in my view it makes no sens and where again did they get that stone anyways??

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      • B Offline
        B Offline
        bmbmm
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Salam,

        As muslims we have to ask these questions. We have to find the truth. Sooner or later these questions pops up in everyones life.

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        • A Offline
          A Offline
          Alen
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Something I never understood is why we have to bow and spin anti-clockwise around a cube in the desert with a black stone?

          As salamu alaykum.
          Respectfully.

          Why do we bow down at Ka'aba?
          Because we have to obey God.

          Why we walk anti-clockwise around the cube?
          because we have to obey God.

          God could've ordered to run from Mecca to Medina.
          God wants to see if we will obey.
          Why don't we wash our armpits before prayer?
          Because God is testing us will we obey and follow His simple command to take ablution or will we add something new.

          As salamu alaykum.

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          • A Offline
            A Offline
            Alen
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            As salamu alaykum.
            Respectfully.

            I forgot to say one thing
            Black stone is NOT any god, there is no god but ONE TRUE AND ONLY GOD, Allah The Most Merciul.

            There is no god but GOD. (English)
            La Ilahe Illa Allah. (Arabic)
            Nema drugoga boga osim Allaha. (Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian)
            Ni drugega boga razen Allaha. (Slovenian)

            As salamu alaykum.

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            • A Offline
              A Offline
              arnoldyasin
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Peace,

              Allen, I approach these concepts a bit different. There is still much to be investigated, but i don't agree with the conevtional concepts of Hajj. Like where does it say anti-clockwise? Or even walk around it in circles? These are non-Quranic rituals. If i say, let's walk around the city, does this mean i'm circumbulating the city? No, this refers to move in the concepts around it. Also the House Abraham build refers to the System, the Deen he build. Kaaba means base/foundation if i'm not mistaken, and so translated the verse that says kaaba, would say

              597 God has made the foundation, the Sacred House(The Deen), a means of support for mankind, as also the holy month, the sacrificial offerings, and consecrated cattle, so that you may understand that known to God is all that is in the heavens and the earth, and God has knowledge of everything.

              Also, where is kaaba/foundation connected with bowing? Masjid means place of prostration, which can be anywhere where people bow to God's laws, this includes your mind being masjid al-haram. Qibla means focus, so these verses refer to focus on implying God's laws in the land and your mind by my view.

              2115 says God is everywhere, no particulair place is needed to direct ourselves too i believe. I do agree on facing the same direction, but this is already included with 4102, where it is ordered to stand with them.

              Hajj is one of the most twisted conceptions in Islam. It refers to a debate between ALL the people of the world. Hajj literaly means debate and ?determination for a noble cause?.

              Dr.Shabbir on Hajj

              2196 (Peace cannot defend itself. Mankind has to guard it.) Therefore, observe the Hajj or Umrah Convention for Allah. If you are stranded, send in gifts that the congregation would utilize. Do not consider that by doing so you have relieved yourself of duty. Be with them at heart until the gifts have reached their destination. If someone is sick or has other compelling burdens denying him sending any contribution, then Abstinence for a few days at convenience, or an act of charity or fulfilling someone?s need shall be in order. If a person is present at the Convention but cannot afford to contribute, he should exercise Abstinence for a total number of ten days, three days there and seven days after coming home. This is for him whose folk do not live in the vicinity of the Convention. Be mindful of Allah, remembering the noble objective. And know that Allah's Law of Requital is strict in pursuing and grasping.

              2197 The Convention shall take place in the months appointed for it and made well known to all. Whoever participates in the Convention shall refrain from sexual intimacy, slipping out of discipline and argumentation throughout Hajj. And whatever you accomplish for the good of mankind, Allah will acknowledge it. So make ample provision, yet the best provision is your good conduct. Be mindful of Me, O You of understanding!

              There is still much to be researched. But i thought i would share it with you....

              Peace bro...

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              0
              • S Offline
                S Offline
                SwedenMajidah
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Peace,

                And now also there are claims that Makka is not a city according Quran but just a noun that fit in that verse it is mention.

                So yeah there are alot to investigate I agree about that.

                Peace Maria

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                • A Offline
                  A Offline
                  Alen
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  As salamu alaykum.
                  Respectfully.

                  Yes, i agree, we should investigate a lot but now i recall that there's ayya wher eit says something about Hajj. It says those who are not from Mecca, have to fast three days while there and seven days when they return home.
                  So, i think that Mecca is a city afterall.
                  What do you think?

                  As salamu alaykum.

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                  • A Offline
                    A Offline
                    arnoldyasin
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Peace,

                    No Alen, in that verse Mecca is not mentioned.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • F Offline
                      F Offline
                      FJ
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Salam Alen

                      As salamu alaykum.
                      Respectfully.

                      I forgot to say one thing
                      Black stone is NOT any god, there is no god but ONE TRUE AND ONLY GOD, Allah The Most Merciul.

                      There is no god but GOD. (English)
                      La Ilahe Illa Allah. (Arabic)
                      Nema drugoga boga osim Allaha. (Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian)
                      Ni drugega boga razen Allaha. (Slovenian)
                      Nuk ka zot tjeter p?rve? Allahut (Albanian)

                      As salamu alaykum.

                      Brother Alen I just added the Albanian translation of La Ilahe Illa Allah. I felt like doing that

                      God bless,
                      FJ

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                      • A Offline
                        A Offline
                        Alen
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        As salamu alaykum.
                        Respectfully.

                        Thanks, FJ, the more we know, the strongest we are.
                        I have several Albanian friends here.
                        In Slovenia, Albanian have almost all the same job - selling fruit and vegetables, ice-cream, baking pies and construction business.
                        They're all very friendly and nice.

                        Thanks FJ.
                        As salamu alaykum.

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                        0
                        • A Offline
                          A Offline
                          AspeRin
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          aslmualaykm brothers handshake
                          in one verse,i cant remember,it says about "to circulate my house" like idk if circulate,like u know go around,and we do it like that because the earth does it around the sun,she is the guest in the sun's house and we are the guests in allah's swt house.
                          and to face it,it clearly says it on quran too.
                          no hay dios sino Dios(espa?ol)
                          waslm handshake

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                          0
                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            maxq
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            My salaam,it`s funny how back then,i never asked questions about that,but now in my view it makes no sens and where again did they get that stone anyways??

                            that makes at least two of us

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                            0
                            • A Offline
                              A Offline
                              afridi220
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Peace,

                              Allen, I approach these concepts a bit different. There is still much to be investigated, but i don't agree with the conevtional concepts of Hajj. Like where does it say anti-clockwise? Or even walk around it in circles? These are non-Quranic rituals. If i say, let's walk around the city, does this mean i'm circumbulating the city? No, this refers to move in the concepts around it. Also the House Abraham build refers to the System, the Deen he build. Kaaba means base/foundation if i'm not mistaken, and so translated the verse that says kaaba, would say

                              597 God has made the foundation, the Sacred House(The Deen), a means of support for mankind, as also the holy month, the sacrificial offerings, and consecrated cattle, so that you may understand that known to God is all that is in the heavens and the earth, and God has knowledge of everything.

                              Also, where is kaaba/foundation connected with bowing? Masjid means place of prostration, which can be anywhere where people bow to God's laws, this includes your mind being masjid al-haram. Qibla means focus, so these verses refer to focus on implying God's laws in the land and your mind by my view.

                              2115 says God is everywhere, no particulair place is needed to direct ourselves too i believe. I do agree on facing the same direction, but this is already included with 4102, where it is ordered to stand with them.

                              Hajj is one of the most twisted conceptions in Islam. It refers to a debate between ALL the people of the world. Hajj literaly means debate and ?determination for a noble cause?.

                              Dr.Shabbir on Hajj

                              2196 (Peace cannot defend itself. Mankind has to guard it.) Therefore, observe the Hajj or Umrah Convention for Allah. If you are stranded, send in gifts that the congregation would utilize. Do not consider that by doing so you have relieved yourself of duty. Be with them at heart until the gifts have reached their destination. If someone is sick or has other compelling burdens denying him sending any contribution, then Abstinence for a few days at convenience, or an act of charity or fulfilling someone?s need shall be in order. If a person is present at the Convention but cannot afford to contribute, he should exercise Abstinence for a total number of ten days, three days there and seven days after coming home. This is for him whose folk do not live in the vicinity of the Convention. Be mindful of Allah, remembering the noble objective. And know that Allah's Law of Requital is strict in pursuing and grasping.

                              2197 The Convention shall take place in the months appointed for it and made well known to all. Whoever participates in the Convention shall refrain from sexual intimacy, slipping out of discipline and argumentation throughout Hajj. And whatever you accomplish for the good of mankind, Allah will acknowledge it. So make ample provision, yet the best provision is your good conduct. Be mindful of Me, O You of understanding!

                              There is still much to be researched. But i thought i would share it with you....

                              Peace bro...
                              [/quot

                              tawf of immam raza tomb

                              Immam raza tomb is located in Mashad an Iranian city near afghanistan bondry .The bazzar arround tomb is made in such manner that you will never know that you are circling are making tawaf of the tomb. It happend to me and i was surprised when after a 20 minuts walk i reached the same point from where i started.

                              Any way shia are visiting that tomb every day and doing all this kind of stuff .

                              hadakallah

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                Munshi
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Salaam Brother

                                Can I hear some more of your thoughts on below.If any article of yours on this subject would be really helpful

                                Peace

                                Peace,

                                Allen, I approach these concepts a bit different. There is still much to be investigated, but i don't agree with the conevtional concepts of Hajj. Like where does it say anti-clockwise? Or even walk around it in circles? These are non-Quranic rituals. If i say, let's walk around the city, does this mean i'm circumbulating the city? No, this refers to move in the concepts around it. Also the House Abraham build refers to the System, the Deen he build. Kaaba means base/foundation if i'm not mistaken, and so translated the verse that says kaaba, would say

                                597 God has made the foundation, the Sacred House(The Deen), a means of support for mankind, as also the holy month, the sacrificial offerings, and consecrated cattle, so that you may understand that known to God is all that is in the heavens and the earth, and God has knowledge of everything.

                                Also, where is kaaba/foundation connected with bowing? Masjid means place of prostration, which can be anywhere where people bow to God's laws, this includes your mind being masjid al-haram. Qibla means focus, so these verses refer to focus on implying God's laws in the land and your mind by my view.

                                2115 says God is everywhere, no particulair place is needed to direct ourselves too i believe. I do agree on facing the same direction, but this is already included with 4102, where it is ordered to stand with them.

                                Hajj is one of the most twisted conceptions in Islam. It refers to a debate between ALL the people of the world. Hajj literaly means debate and ?determination for a noble cause?.

                                Dr.Shabbir on Hajj

                                2196 (Peace cannot defend itself. Mankind has to guard it.) Therefore, observe the Hajj or Umrah Convention for Allah. If you are stranded, send in gifts that the congregation would utilize. Do not consider that by doing so you have relieved yourself of duty. Be with them at heart until the gifts have reached their destination. If someone is sick or has other compelling burdens denying him sending any contribution, then Abstinence for a few days at convenience, or an act of charity or fulfilling someone?s need shall be in order. If a person is present at the Convention but cannot afford to contribute, he should exercise Abstinence for a total number of ten days, three days there and seven days after coming home. This is for him whose folk do not live in the vicinity of the Convention. Be mindful of Allah, remembering the noble objective. And know that Allah's Law of Requital is strict in pursuing and grasping.

                                2197 The Convention shall take place in the months appointed for it and made well known to all. Whoever participates in the Convention shall refrain from sexual intimacy, slipping out of discipline and argumentation throughout Hajj. And whatever you accomplish for the good of mankind, Allah will acknowledge it. So make ample provision, yet the best provision is your good conduct. Be mindful of Me, O You of understanding!

                                There is still much to be researched. But i thought i would share it with you....

                                Peace bro...

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • A Offline
                                  A Offline
                                  arnoldyasin
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Peace,

                                  Please read

                                  http//19.org/index.php?id=91,554,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=667941349c996099696ab2220aad68a7

                                  and

                                  http//www.ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=455

                                  and

                                  http//www.ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=705

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                                  0
                                  • A Offline
                                    A Offline
                                    afridi220
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    http//www.aididsafar.com/shegod.html

                                    '( yuck

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                                    0
                                    • D Offline
                                      D Offline
                                      Dotty
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Something I never understood is why we have to bow and spin anti-clockwise around a cube in the desert with a black stone?

                                      Salaam,

                                      This is something that has been on my mind for a long time now... not the black stone so much (to me that's just weird), but the cube itself. If the cube is made of stone and we use this stone cube as a focal point, well... I just don't get it. Since God is everywhere why would He tell us to pray towards a stone fixture made by man? This confuses me a lot because we are not to pray to any "thing"... only God.

                                      Please help in my better understanding.

                                      Peace

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                                      • P Offline
                                        P Offline
                                        pvb
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        What I think is weird is what the black stone looks like with the silver around it, and then people kiss it.

                                        It is an easy way to absorb pagan traditions. Remove the idols, change the direction of the circling and you have a new tradition. Similar to the way the early Christian church absorbed tradtion from pagans- easter eggs, evergreens in the winter, etc.

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                                        • A Offline
                                          A Offline
                                          ayman
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Peace Dotty,

                                          This is something that has been on my mind for a long time now... not the black stone so much (to me that's just weird), but the cube itself. If the cube is made of stone and we use this stone cube as a focal point, well... I just don't get it. Since God is everywhere why would He tell us to pray towards a stone fixture made by man? This confuses me a lot because we are not to pray to any "thing"... only God.
                                          Please help in my better understanding.

                                          Please see

                                          http//www.free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm

                                          Peace,

                                          Ayman

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