Life after Death--Scientifically 'provable'?
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Peace all,
Saladin
Logically, reviving is easier than creating for the first time . so giving life after death will be easier than giving the life for the first time .
Maybe for us, but I don't believe this is true for God.
What! do they not consider how Allah originates the creation, then reproduces it? Surely that is easy to Allah. (2919)
Say Travel in the earth and see how He makes the first creation, then Allah creates the latter creation; surely Allah has power over all things. (2920)Leena
Since it seems that a soul is also an unprovable concept, do you think the soul makes one exist, or is a physical shell the basis for existing? Is DNA a clue to what the soul is? How can LAD be proven, if the soul has not yet been found or proven? Is the soul an actual thing, as opposed to a mere concept or abstract representation? Lots of questions...
Well, this is just a guess. I believe the physical shell is the ?interface? that our soul uses to interact with the physical world, though I also feel that a soul without the physical shell can also interact with (or at least observe) the physical world. I don?t think DNA can tell us anything about the soul.
Yes, LAD cannot be proven unless the existence of a soul is first proven.Stillearning
Agree.
Ahmed
Thanks for the time spent in sharing those verses. It was a very good reminder.I have seen miracles in front of my eyes that one day will be eaten by the worms, believe me mate, I may tell you one , the one that I will never forget till I die, as it is engraved in my mind, let me know if you want to know it?
Yes, please share.
Tay
Many of the effects of near-death experience can be had by electrically stimulating the temporal lobes or by taking LSD.
Peoples? testimonies of their subjective experiences is not what I would consider scientific evidence. What is your method of verification? I assume that you have not personally had a near-death experience?Also, what does near-death experience prove?
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Peace David,
You stated
Many of the effects of near-death experience can be had by electrically stimulating the temporal lobes or by taking LSD.
And who knows what these stimuli are actually doing to the mind-body connection? That's my problem with an empirical approach to this sort of study. Just because you can cause it to happen in a lab does not mean the experience is completely physical.
Peoples? testimonies of their subjective experiences is not what I would consider scientific evidence.
Again, David, this is why I stated it really depends on what avenue of science, and what discipline is implemented as "evidence". Subjective testimony is enough to convict someone of murder in the USA. What I'm talking about is testimony that spans cultures and generations. When I hear about people all over the world over hundreds of years describing the same experience, I find it as worthy as a video.
I assume that you have not personally had a near-death experience?
I'm not sure. I've experienced something that I cannot really explain.
Also, what does near-death experience prove?
I guess it depends on who you ask. For those who've actually had these experiences while brain-dead or with a stopped heart, I think it proves that there is certainly life after death.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace all,
Saladin
Logically, reviving is easier than creating for the first time . so giving life after death will be easier than giving the life for the first time .
Maybe for us, but I don't believe this is true for God.
What! do they not consider how Allah originates the creation, then reproduces it? Surely that is easy to Allah. (2919)
Say Travel in the earth and see how He makes the first creation, then Allah creates the latter creation; surely Allah has power over all things. (2920)what ?
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salam.
some verses show how accurate the statements about the LAD are"Surely those who disbelieve our signs, We shall burn them at a fire. As often as
their skins are wholly burned, we shall give them in exchange other skins so that they may keep tasting the punishment ." (Koran 456)Full thickness burns destroy nerve endings so that further burning does not cause pain. The pin prick test is used to verify full thickness loss. The Koran informed us about this over 1400 years back when people knew nothing about full thickness and partial thickness burns and their anaesthetic effect.
http//rationalreality.50webs.com/bio.htm
LOCUSTS MOVING IN SWARMS
They will emerge from their graves with downcast eyes, like swarming locusts. (Qur'an, 547)
This verse describes all people's situation in the Hereafter as one resembling swarming locusts. There is great wisdom in this simile.
A great deal of information was obtained about locusts in the twentieth century by conducting wide-ranging studies using micro-cameras. Locust swarms contain huge numbers of individual locusts that behave as a single body. Coming together in swarms that are kilometres long and wide, they look just like a dark cloud. It has been established, for instance, that a single swarm of desert locusts can cover 1,200 square kilometres (460 square miles) and contain between 40 and 80 million locusts per square kilometre.157
In addition, they deposit their eggs in sandy soils like seeds and, after the larvae have remained underground for a long period of time, they all emerge together. After digging a 10-15 cm-long tunnel in the ground, a female locust lays 95-158 eggs at once. Females can lay eggs at least three times in their lifetime. When the larvae have matured after 10-65 days, depending on the air temperature, they emerge in a large group. Up to 1,000 egg pods have been found in one square metre. Locust swarms are large enough to cover several hundred square kilometres, with the number of adult locusts per square kilometre varying from between 40 to 80 million.158 Their long underground existence and sudden emergence in vast numbers all at the same time may resemble the resurrection of human beings on the Day of Judgement. (Allah knows best.)
Today, locusts are being studied by special units, which employ remote control imaging systems. Even NASA satellite data are used to identify areas in Africa where desert locust colonies have developed. Thanks to satellite data, it is possible to carry out wide-ranging research on land and in space over an 18 million square kilometre area.
http//harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_p1_10.php#2 -
salam.
4131 And from among His signs is that you see the land still, then, as soon as We send down the water upon it, it shakes and grows. Surely, the One who revived it can revive the dead. He is capable of all things.
also
RAINS WHICH BRING A DEAD LAND BACK TO LIFE
The rain's function of "bringing a dead land back to life" is indicated in several verses of the Qur'an
? We send down from heaven pure water so that by it We can bring a dead land to life and give drink to many of the animals and people We created. (Qur'an, 2548-49)
As well as bringing water, an essential requirement for living things, to the earth, the rain also has a fertilising property. Drops of rain which evaporate from the sea and reach the clouds contain certain substances which "revitalise" dead soil. These raindrops with such "revitalising" properties are called "surface tension droplets." These form from the top layer of the surface of the sea, called the micro-layer by biologists; in this surface layer, less than one-tenth of a millimetre thick, are found large quantities of organic waste formed from the decomposition of microscopic algae and zooplanktons. Some of these wastes collect and absorb elements such as phosphorus, magnesium and potassium, which are rarely found in sea water, as well as heavy metals such as copper, zinc, cobalt and lead. Seeds and plants on the surface of the earth receive large quantities of the mineral salts and elements they need to grow from these raindrops. The Qur'an refers to this in these terms
And We sent down blessed water from the sky and made gardens grow by it and grain for harvesting. (Qur'an, 509)
These salts which descend with the rain are examples in miniature of fertilisers traditionally used to enhance productivity (calcium, magnesium, potassium etc.). Heavy metals of the kind found in aerosols create elements which increase productivity during growth and production of plants. In short, rain is an important fertiliser. With the fertiliser which provided by rain alone, within a hundred years, a soil of poor quality can obtain all the elements necessary for plants. Forests also grow and are nourished with help from these chemicals which originate from the sea.
In this way, every year some 150 million tons of particles of fertiliser fall to earth. Were it not for this fertilising function, there would have been far fewer plants on the Earth and the balance of life would have been disturbed. The information about the revitalisation of plants in the verse is just one of the countless miraculous properties of the Qur'an.
http//harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_p1_06.php#5 -
Yes, please share.
Hello David
This real story will freak you out bro as it did to me 14 years ago, since then it is like happened yesterday, I can?t forget it mate, it is engraved in my brain
I migrated to Australia 15 years ago, a few months after, I heard in the news that the Australian government wants a Muslim who can speak Arabic to manage the Muslim burial section in Rookwood cemetery (the second biggest cemetery in the world ? 283 acres )
I applied for the Job and the Executive Manger of the Cemetery liked me and gave me another Job, Assistant Manager to the Executive of All Rookwood and the Manager of the Muslim Section
My role was to create a database to store the burial records and to make sure the labourers do the burial right regarding location, dimension and method of burial, they just used to burry any deceased any where in their section and I tell you mate, they wasted a lot of land, in fact the Muslim burial land is about to be filled up in under a year and then we will have no burial land in Sydney
The deceased graves were in rows, at each end of the whole graves we can add a new grave, they used to do it in a way the Lebanese/Arabs in one end and the Turkish and others in another end.
One day we had a deceased, I read his file and recognised that he was a 29 years old Muslim who died of Aids, I actually knew how it happened, as the story was told in the Friday Salat speech to warn other young Muslims from falling to this sin and the consequences in this life may be drastic.
We buried that young Muslim guy and life went one, a week later we had another burial and she was an old Lebanese woman who died natural death, she was buried at the other end and life just went on
A few days later while I was investigating the Muslim burial land I found a man about 50 years old sitting on that woman grave and sort of reading the Quran, I approached him and said Salam he responded and I noticed straightaway how peaceful and kind that man is, we had a discussion then I asked him about the deceased, he told me that she is his aunty, I actually thought that she was his mother due to his humbling while he was visiting her grave, so my impression that this family seems a very decent family.
A couple of days later I met that man again while he was visiting his aunty grave. In the burial ground they had a pile of bricks that they use inside the graves to build the small chamber where the body will be laid, the grave dimension is 80cm (width), 250cm (length) and 220 cm depth, the body is laid at the bottom then they arrange the bricks all around the body at a hight of about 50 cm then they lay concrete slabs on the brick to close the chamber, then the rest of the 220 depth which is 220 ? 50 = 170 cm will be filled with soil on top of the concrete slabs. Many of the Muslims were stealing those bricks to use it for building monuments on top of the graves, very sad indeed, and I felt it will be ugly to warn them not to do it so I left it for them open, when I saw that kind man visiting his aunty grave, I approached him and said Salam, he responded the asked me if he can buy a few of these bricks to surround the grave with it ?like a small monument?, man, I was so humbled by that man honesty and kindness to his aunty, he refused to help himself freely and take the bricks and asked me to pay for it first, of course I declined and I told him to take whatever bricks he wants for free and he did with hesitance ?quality you hardly see bro?
Life went on for about two to three months and there was no burial during this time. Then we had one and he was a non Arab and has to be next to the 29 years old deceased who died of Aids after sleeping with an infected whore in a park in the Arab Suburb Lakemba.
The graves in the rows are 40 cm apart, I parked my car close to where the digging will happen then the labourer came with the backhoe and started digging with its hydraulic bucket 40 cm next to the 29 years old grave ?we have to make it as close as possible so we don?t waste the land, however this 40 cm wall between the graves is actually too thin and the wall will be vulnerable for collapse while the next grave is being dug , when he reached the 220 cm depth of the new grave, all of a sudden the 40 cm wall between it and the next grave (The 29 years old guy) collapsed
Mate, when this happened HELL BROKE, the worst smell I have ever smelled in my whole life bro ?I swear with the might of Allah?, you see I have seen many rotten corpses of animals in the streets of Cairo and smelled their stinky rotten smell and sure the smell was unbearable, however bro that was the first time I smell a rotten human two months after death, and I can say with confidence that it was the worst and ugly smell I have ever smelled in my whole entire life, I just have to run bro, in fact I could not even go t the car 5 meters away and drive in it I just ran as far as I can reach bro to avoid the bomb that all of a sudden exploded, what a nightmare that was bro
Well I was horrified that I felt all of us will have to go through this and I tell you man I really can?t see myself going though that, I know I will be forced to go through it but I was so worried about myself that how the hell I can stand this smell coming of me inside a closed grave?
I freaked out for about a week bro, my body was shaking and my spirit just went down the drain. Then we had a Lebanese deceased, ie. he should be buried at the other end, next to the old lady grave who died at the same period exactly as the Aids victim and was buried like two days after him
They marked the new grave 40 cm next to the old lady grave and started digging with the backhoe, they reached the 220 cm depth and I got the feeling that the wall will not collapse, so I got closer and stood at the edge of the old woman monument ?the surrounding bricks? then all of a sudden bro the wall collapsed big times and the old lady grave was wide open while I?m standing at the tip of it.
What do you think happened next bro?
Well, can you believe this, the air all of a sudden became fresher and absolutely no stinky smell in any way, I was standing almost on it bro and it was wide open and NO SMELL WHATSOEVER, in fact there was a breath of fresh air that all of a sudden blew, Man what a shocker, it was a nice one though, it resolved all the anxiety I had for about a week, I was so delighted that I felt what I read is true then, that some will have to experience horrific consequences inside the grave and others won?t
I?m sure bro that the ones who won?t are very rare, it is like every one in every 1000 grave or so, just a wild guess to give you a feeling that the common thing to happen is to have a stinky grave and possibly that is why we think that all of us must go through this, the question is why Allah does this to a humbled slave who belived hard in Him?, I believe He will not and I have seen it with my own eyes and I thank Him humbly for this great message that is very rare to happen to any human, that is why I keep telling it to anyone interested to hear it, It happened bro and Allah is my witness
Two days later I went to the Aids victim and thought to myself, Allah can forgive any sins except shirk, for example if I get hit by Aids ?god forbids?, I have two options bro
- To submit to Allah and recognise my mistakes and repent then ask for forgiveness
- To rebel against Him as if why He chose me and hit me with a lethal disease
My guess that the 29 years old guy went with option 2, Allah knows best
So I spoke to the 29 years old dead man while I?m standing on his grave telling him
?Did you find what God has promised you?? then I read the Fatiha to him and left
Peace be with you
Thanks for reading
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Peace Ahmed,
Thanks for that story. It is part of God?s mercy that He sends us signs to strengthen our resolve and our faith. It must have been a very powerful message for you to remember it so clearly.
Based on my experience, and in talking to others, these types of signs are remembered in detail even decades after they occur, and they often have profound and long lasting effects on people, including increased empathy and intuition.
peace
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Peace Tay,
And who knows what these stimuli are actually doing to the mind-body connection? That's my problem with an empirical approach to this sort of study. Just because you can cause it to happen in a lab does not mean the experience is completely physical.
So if you can cause it to happen in a lab, which would explain it in a purely biological manner, you would reject that as evidence for a completely physical experience, and rather go with something that you don?t know. Is this your process of verification?
Again, David, this is why I stated it really depends on what avenue of science, and what discipline is implemented as "evidence".
Okay, explain to me what avenue of science you have used, and what methodology you have employed to verify LAD.
Subjective testimony is enough to convict someone of murder in the USA. What I'm talking about is testimony that spans cultures and generations. When I hear about people all over the world over hundreds of years describing the same experience, I find it as worthy as a video.
People all over the world and over hundreds of years also describe experiences with UFOs. Do you find that as worthy as a video as well?
I'm not sure. I've experienced something that I cannot really explain.
If you?d like to share, I?d be interested.
I guess it depends on who you ask. For those who've actually had these experiences while brain-dead or with a stopped heart, I think it proves that there is certainly life after death.
I agree that personal experience can be extremely powerful, and it is certainly a very important way in which we can know about ourselves, the universe, and God.
However, it is not scientific or objective.peace
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Peace Saladin,
First of all, I firmly believe in LAD. Where we differ is that I don?t think it is scientifically provable.
You wrote
Logically, reviving is easier than creating for the first time . so giving life after death will be easier than giving the life for the first time
Sorry if I was wasn?t clear. My response was that although this statement is ?logical? for us humans, I don?t think it applies to God, in that whether creating for the first time or reviving/reproducing for the second, third, fourth?. time doesn?t carry any notion of ?easier?, as the first creation was not ?difficult? to begin with.
Lastly, thanks for those verses, though nothing of what you posted showed scientific evidence for LAD.
peace
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Peace David,
So if you can cause it to happen in a lab, which would explain it in a purely biological manner, you would reject that as evidence for a completely physical experience, and rather go with something that you don?t know. Is this your process of verification?
This may get a little tricky so please bear with me...
I agree that if a process is caused to happen in a lab, then the evidence is clearly biological. But, I do not agree that the process is caused by the physical exclusively in all instances.Let's say someone has a near-death experience. For the sake of argument, let's agree that near-death experiences are the real thing. Now, in the process of the soul leaving the body, the body then goes through some physical cycles as a result, ie, elevated activity in the temporal region of the brain. So, the cause of the physical cycles is the near-death experience. Now, you're in a lab, and stimulate this same area of the brain, and get the same results. This only proves that you've duplicated the physical aspects of the experience. It does not prove that there was not a spiritual aspect in the first place, which would be lacking in the experiment.
Does that make sense?
Okay, explain to me what avenue of science you have used, and what methodology you have employed to verify LAD.
I have not done any research on the topic. LAD has been a truth for me for a long time, since I've experienced some spiritual phenomena that cannot be explained by science.
However, what I was referring to was something different entirely. I don't have the book in front of me but I promise I will cite the references for you. One case in particular involved a scientist who set out to disprove NDE's and eventually wrote a book in full support of it after interviewing hundreds of children who had these experiences.
People all over the world and over hundreds of years also describe experiences with UFOs. Do you find that as worthy as a video as well?
No. UFO testimony varies greatly. Consistency over cultures and generations is what I find as valid.
If you?d like to share, I?d be interested.
I'll pm you the experience shortly, as it's kind of personal.
I agree that personal experience can be extremely powerful, and it is certainly a very important way in which we can know about ourselves, the universe, and God.
However, it is not scientific or objective.Of course, it is not scientific, nor should it be. Science is perfect right where it is. wink
Peace,
Tay -
salam.
First of all, I firmly believe in LAD. Where we differ is that I don?t think it is scientifically provable.
i see. i personally think that in time , we will be able to raise the dead , just like jesus did .
You wrote
Logically, reviving is easier than creating for the first time . so giving life after death will be easier than giving the life for the first time
Sorry if I was wasn?t clear. My response was that although this statement is ?logical? for us humans, I don?t think it applies to God, in that whether creating for the first time or reviving/reproducing for the second, third, fourth?. time doesn?t carry any notion of ?easier?, as the first creation was not ?difficult? to begin with.
i was replying to your statement that
I agree with Ahmed. I think belief in LAD is part of the test, and I don't think it is reasonable scientifically speaking.
you were talking about what is reasonable to us , right ? i replied that it is very reasonable (not for God , He can do anything He wants, but for us). as i said before , scientists have already considered reviving the dead .