To "Tay" and all those who believe GOD never....
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Peace Ahmed,
Doesn't "min" mean from?
Absolutely, and that is why i added tyhe word SOME OF = MIN = FROM
ie,
this is some of the unseen news
or
this is from the unseen news
a native arabic speaker will understand it on the spot, while it may sound odd to a non arabic speaker
the Quran used this style of Min a lot because it is popular in the common arabic language, check 28, Min Al Nas = Some of the Poeple = From the People
In effect it means, Allah didn't disclose oll the stories of the Ghaib "that they didn't know it or see it
Peace
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Peace Ahmed,
Thanks for the info. I happen to agree.
So, the story is being recited from the unseen. It can only be this way, since the events did actually happen, right? I mean, there were real witnesses who did see Maryam. For them it was seen, not unseen.Now, we've already agreed to disgree on what the story actually means. But we both recognize where the story is from - al-ghaybi.
Conclusion if you're going to classify the story of Maryam as "unseen", then you must apply the same to every single word of the Qur'an, since it all comes from the "unseen", and none of us have ever seen any of the events that took place.
So, where does that leave us, brother?
Back to square one.I believe in every word of the Qur'an, and I believe in the unseen. But I do not interpret the words the same way you do.
Agreed?
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Ahmed,
Thanks for the info. I happen to agree.
So, the story is being recited from the unseen. It can only be this way, since the events did actually happen, right? I mean, there were real witnesses who did see Maryam. For them it was seen, not unseen.Peace bro
No woprries bro, we only looking for the truth for all of us with no credit to anyone but all of us, yes anything happens and no one saw but was heard, it has to be classified as hearsay, that is the general law at courts, but the point is what is said is not by a human rather by our God, hence it can not be hearsay from our perspective
Now, we've already agreed to disgree on what the story actually means. But we both recognize where the story is from - al-ghaybi.
the point of agreeing to disgree is only when we both reach dead end, and I don't think we did yet, I learnt a lot myself while putting these comments to you, so it should be good for both of us,
now any stories you hear from any one "God or Not" while you did not see it is Ghayb
Conclusion if you're going to classify the story of Maryam as "unseen",
bro, it is not me who did classify it, it is Allah in His Quran explicitly and also the common sense suggest that if you don't see it then you don't really know it untill you see
then you must apply the same to every single word of the Qur'an, since it all comes from the "unseen", and none of us have ever seen any of the events that took place.
I have no problem with that bro, in fact believing in Mohammad or other prophets is 100% believing in the UNSEEN
So, where does that leave us, brother?
Back to square one.absolutely not bro, it will leave us at BELIEVING IN THE UNSEEN, as we were told in 23 and zillions of other loctions, and this is what will defferentiate a true believer from a confused believer (who thinks he/she is a believer)
so if we consider Most of the content in the Quran is unseen, then all we need is to believe in it AS NOT HEARSAY because it is by our God and not by a human
I believe in every word of the Qur'an, and I believe in the unseen. But I do not interpret the words the same way you do.
Agreed?
I agree that you are free to interpet it the way you want in fact I believe the Quran mentioned the people who do that, obvioulsy you admitted that you intepet it your way, but I don't agree that I interpet it my way, I DID NOT DO IT MY WAY, it is what the clear arabic text suggest in the Quran as said by our God who ordered us to believe in the unseen, then He gave us many exmaples of those unseen and told us that people saw it as well, in fact He also told us to travel around and see the signs of those unseen people before us, like Pharaoh and the pyramids or gommorah/sodom cities for example
He also told us about things that was unseen for some till a point where it was seen, surat Al Rum, the battle of Byzantine which for those before it was unseen, then it is seen by the ones at the time of the event then for me and you it is unseen
Peace,
TaySalam man
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Peace Ahmed,
I'm not sure if I'm not explaining myself well, or if you are only seeing what you want to see. I don't want to make assumptions so I'll do my best to clarify again.
You stated
now any stories you hear from any one "God or Not" while you did not see it is Ghayb
This is not true. The reason I was asking for the definition of "min", was to emphasize that the story is from the unseen. The story itself is not unseen.
Do you understand the difference?
I can say a man is from Africa.
I can't say a man is Africa.To my understanding, the only concepts described as unseen in substance include the malaikat, the jinn, iblis, and of course Allah.
I hope my position has become clear.
bro, it is not me who did classify it, it is Allah in His Quran explicitly and also the common sense suggest that if you don't see it then you don't really know it untill you see
Allah said the story is from the unseen. You are saying if one doesn't believe in the virgin birth, then one is disbelieving in the unseen.
These are 2 completely different concepts Ahmed.
We spent an entire thread discussing whether or not the virgin birth is even mentioned in the Qur'an, and you failed in proving your assertion. The Qur'an does not explicitly say what you suggest. It is only through your interpretation that you've reached this conclusion. My interpretation has led me elsewhere.
That is why I'd rather agree to disagree on this fine point rather than spend the rest of our lives debating it.
Can you respect that?
I have no problem with that bro, in fact believing in Mohammad or other prophets is 100% believing in the UNSEEN
ok
I stated
So, where does that leave us, brother?
Back to square one.And you replied
absolutely not bro, it will leave us at BELIEVING IN THE UNSEEN, as we were told in 23 and zillions of other loctions, and this is what will defferentiate a true believer from a confused believer (who thinks he/she is a believer)
so if we consider Most of the content in the Quran is unseen, then all we need is to believe in it AS NOT HEARSAY because it is by our God and not by a human
Do you see what I mean about not replying line by line and reading the whole thread first?
You've pulled my comment out of context and wasted precious energy responding to a point that I never even made.
Here's why it brings us back to square one
I believe in every word of the Qur'an, and I believe in the unseen. But I do not interpret the words the same way you do.
Now, do you recall the thread called "virgin myth", where we spent a good deal of time debating our interpretations? If you do, then think about how far we've come in our dialogue, only to end up back in the same place - and that is, we interpret the verses differently...in other words back to square one.
You stated
I agree that you are free to interpet it the way you want in fact I believe the Quran mentioned the people who do that
Why not just come out and call me what you want to call me rather than disguise it?
I don't agree that I interpet it my way, I DID NOT DO IT MY WAY, it is what the clear arabic text suggest in the Quran
OK. And that's your interpretation!!!!
Get it?
http//dictionary.reference.com/search?q=interpretation
in?ter?pre?ta?tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-t?rpr-tshn)
n.
The act or process of explaining the meaning of something.In a nutshell, you interpret the "clear arabic text" to mean that Maryam gave birth without a father. I interpret the "clear arabic text" to mean otherwise.
Can we agree to disagree now?
Peace,
Tay -
Salam mz375,
Salaams All,
Jonny said
?GOD helped His prophets many times by supernatural means?
And what are those?
Ahmed said
?Believers do need to believe in the past miracles the Quran told us about?
I don?t see any such things ,but there is a lot of mistranslations in it though.
You can point them out for me though.
Gods Blessings.
JK- Sure.
An example has been set for you by the two armies who clashed - one army was fighting in the cause of GOD, while the other was disbelieving. They saw with their own eyes that they were twice as many. GOD supports with His victory whomever He wills. This should provide an assurance for those who possess vision.
Thus, when you implored your Lord to come to the rescue, He responded to you "I am supporting you with one thousand angels in succession."
You told the believers, "Is it not enough that your Lord supports you with three thousand angels, sent down?"
Indeed, if you steadfastly persevere and maintain righteousness, then they attack you suddenly, your Lord will support you with five thousand angels, well trained.
GOD Bless! -
Salam phoenix1,
peace
so Johnny K, if you believe that Jesus was born without a father, and you believe everything else in the story as actual occurance, then can you please provide me with some evidence. If its good enough, you might even buy it.
JK- 2130 mentions the big bang. People in the past reading the Quran would also have wanted to require evidence. Guess what? They got it now. So wait and see and in the future GW GOD would provide us with that evidence too. For now we have code-19 providing evidence that everything mentioned in the Quran is true. GOD Bless!
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Salam truth,
So earthquakes, volcanoes, and hurricanes are all miracles according to you even though they are commonplace?
I also do not require miracles to believe and echo Tay's sentiments in relation to life itself. The fact that there is anything at all - rather than nothing is to me the only "miracle".
Regards.
JK- Well in a way their systematic setup is as is also the complexity of life. But perhaps the complete definiton should have been "an extraordinary event which appears suddenly in order to refresh ones belief in a supernatural creator which at the same time is too powerful for a human or a collection of humans to perform at that particular time period." GOD Bless!
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Salam truth,
What if all the stories were allegorical?
Would you cease to believe?
Regards.
JK- No but i believe GOD would have told us that Hes citing an allegory if they were to be so and He does that many times in the Quran too. In that case i would have accepted them as allegories with no problem. GOD Bless!
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Salam truth,
The "Quran" is not protected.
The reminder (zhikr) is protected 159.
I believe that this actually means the reminder is MAINTAINED. That the God ensures that the message is always available to people and this may be in more forms than just the reading.
The text may become corrupted, but the essential message of monotheism and the last day is maintained.
Regards.
JK- Emmmm, excuse me truth. Dont you believe in code-19 any more and that RK WAS a messenger of GOD? Also dont you believe in a Book revealed by GOD to an Arabian Prophet named Muhammad with 114 suras and 6346 verses? GOD Bless!