What really is Dome of the Rock?
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Salam, I thought this article did a good job of explaining the concept, establishing the Temple Mount as the area in question.
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/hajj.htm
Please forgive my ignorance if this has been discussed to death, I am pretty new at this.
DCS
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JK- No but i see Masjidul-Haram and Ka'abah in the same verse. But i see no problem of the bayt referring to the Ka'abah as well. You say "how are the PEOPLE being called to the bayt while the idolators are...". Well in the context GOD is calling the BELIEVING PEOPLE to Hajj and NOT just all people. Do you think GOD calls idolators to the bayt? I dont think so. GOD Bless!
The "messenger RK" forgot to read the ayat carefully, it would seem.
And proclaim the Pilgrimage among HUMANKIND they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (22/26)
I wonder why Ibrahim didn't tell this to Rashad when Rashad visited him during his night journey?
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Salam "mquran",
The "messenger RK" forgot to read the ayat carefully, it would seem.
And proclaim the Pilgrimage among HUMANKIND they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (22/26)
I wonder why Ibrahim didn't tell this to Rashad when Rashad visited him during his night journey?
JK- That is correct , ALL MANKIND IS TO BE INFORMED TO GO FOR THE PILGRIMAGE but whether they do it, and hence becoming believers, or they dont, thus remaing rejectors, is up to them. This is the sense RK, myself and many others clearly concluded from the above and other such verses. Last but not least, YES, i do believe the above Quranic Prophecy will repeat itself as it did in Muhammad's time when all true Quran Alone Muslims will come for the pilgrimage to the Ka'bah in peace and the idolators would be defeated GW. GOD Bless!
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JK- That is correct , ALL MANKIND IS TO BE INFORMED TO GO FOR THE PILGRIMAGE but whether they do it, and hence becoming believers, or they dont, thus remaing rejectors, is up to them. This is the sense RK, myself and many others clearly concluded from the above and other such verses. Last but not least, YES, i do believe the above Quranic Prophecy will repeat itself as it did in Muhammad's time when all true Quran Alone Muslims will come for the pilgrimage to the Ka'bah in peace and the idolators would be defeated GW. GOD Bless
Lol, and you AND your messenger failed to read al-quraan properly there , 'johnny-k'.
Look at the ayat again
And proclaim the Pilgrimage among HUMANKIND they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (22/26)
Does it say they will become believers or only part of them will turn up ? No, HUMANKIND itself will come.Lets not play assumption games here. Your messenger already told you most of mankind wont believe (12/103) and most of the believers believe with shrik (12/106). Yet they respond to the call.
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Salam "mquran",
I dont understand why unbelieving people would come to the pilgrimage. It doesnt make any sense unless they decide to believe. Regarding the majority argument, that is most probably confined to the HEART BELIEF or real intention. There would surely be a time when almost all people oin earth would OUTWARDLY CLAIM to be believing in Quran Alone but who knows whats in therir hearts. Get it? GOD Bless! -
I dont understand why unbelieving people would come to the pilgrimage. It doesnt make any sense unless they decide to believe. Regarding the majority argument, that is most probably confined to the HEART BELIEF or real intention. There would surely be a time when almost all people oin earth would OUTWARDLY CLAIM to be believing in Quran Alone but who knows whats in therir hearts. Get it? GOD Bless!
Unbelieving people or not, they are part of mankind. As to why they go, they go to see the benefits for themselves (22/2.
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Salam "mquran",
Unbelieving people or not, they are part of mankind. As to why they go, they go to see the benefits for themselves (22/2.
JK- I just resolved the "majority being believers" problem. They may seem to be believers to us thus they HAVE TO BE PERMITTED TO ENTER SACRED MASJID FROM OUR RELATIVE POINT OF VIEW. But this does NOT mean that they are really beievers in their hearts. Only GOD knows that and this is exactly my point. Thus there is no problem with Ka'bah and Sacred Masjid related to pilgrimage in Mecca. GOD Bless!
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JK- I just resolved the "majority being believers" problem. They may seem to be believers to us thus they HAVE TO BE PERMITTED TO ENTER SACRED MASJID FROM OUR RELATIVE POINT OF VIEW. But this does NOT mean that they are really beievers in their hearts. Only GOD knows that and this is exactly my point. Thus there is no problem with Ka'bah and Sacred Masjid related to pilgrimage in Mecca. GOD Bless!
"JK". majority of people are UNBELIEVERS. Not believers. Your problem arises from the fact that you still interpret kafir, muslim, mumin etc etc the way a religious person would do it. Interpret al-quran bil quraan and all problems disappear.
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Salam "mquran",
"JK". majority of people are UNBELIEVERS. Not believers. Your problem arises from the fact that you still interpret kafir, muslim, mumin etc etc the way a religious person would do it. Interpret al-quran bil quraan and all problems disappear.
JK- You still dont get my point, do you? Now please read the following statements of mine carefully. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN UNBELIEVERS AT HEART, WHILE ACTING TO BE BELIEVERS IN THE OPEN, AND SINCERE BELIEVERS WHO BELIEVE BOTH AT HEART AND ALSO SHOW IT OPENLY. The Hajj pilgrimage could include BOTH these categories. Let me demonstrate this with an example. We know GOD forbade us from allowing the unbelievers to enter the sacred masjid. But what if they claim to be believers and always act as believers infront of us. Then relative to us theyr believers so we would have to allow them to enter the sacred Masjid. So yes, hypocrites may also come for hajj seeing their own benefits but this doesnt make RK's nor my concept of hajj and ka'abah wrong. When GOD says the majority of people are unbelievers, it would include those hypocrites who we think are believers. GOD never said that hypocrites cannot enter the ka'abah if that is what you mean. They can but we are to do our best to detect them. Thats the point to ponder on. 928 has to be seen as a COMMAND and not as a stemant of fact like RK translated it
O you who believe, the idol worshipers are polluted; they shall not be permitted to approach the Sacred Masjid after this year. If you fear loss of income, GOD will shower you with His provisions, in accordance with His will. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.
Thus once again we see that it is for us humans to keep REALIZED/DETECTED UNBELIEVERS AWAY FROM THE KA'BAH. I hope you understood this now. GOD Bless! -
Salam "bmbmm",
Hi Jonny,
So are you saying that Haram is Sacred? Masjid-al-haram is a mosque?
JK- Haram can mean both Sacred/Holy and Forbidden/Restricted deoending on the context. I wouldnt translated "masjid" as "mosque" but rather "a place of prostration". A GOD Aloner would built a Masjid which is dedictaed for worshipping Him Alone. Thus "masjid-al-haram" is the "Holy place of prostration" which was setup by Abraham and Ishmael and dedicated for worshipping GOD Alone. GOD Bless!
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Salam "bmbmm",
Hi Jonny
How can haram be Sacred/Holy, can you proof from the Quran? Don't you think being ritualistic is same asbeing monastic? What benefit this Hajj gona have this time?
Peace
JK- Well the word Haram being translated as "Sacred", which is one of it's meaning in the Arabic language, does suit the context of the Quran where it says "majidul haraam". Translating it as "forbidden masjid" would be very odd and far reaching even though literally possible. As far as for the benefits i believe there can be both physical and spiritual benefits. The physical is that Quran Aloners from all over the world can meet and discuss issues. The spritual is brought by the uniformity and discipline required during hajj. I believe it is an excellent means of getting along. GOD Bless!
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peace to everyone,
hi I was reading your guys' posts and It reminded me of an article I read on here (free-minds) about this very topic.
the article is located at http//www.free-minds.org/Arab_Conspiracy.html
here are a few excerpts form this article insha Allah someone or anyone could "verify" its information
and get back to meTHE ARAB TALES ABOUT THE PRESENT KA?ABA.
Perhaps, in order to foster their many pagan associations, the Arabs have given the square stone house which they call the ka?aba a history of their own. The Quran did not mention anything about the ka?aba except to say it is about the washing of one?s ankle in Chapter 5 Verse 6. This word is also used to refer to the ankles of the animals determining their maturity in Chapter 5 Verse 95 and it is mentioned again in Chapter 5 Verse 97 by saying it is God?s decree to signify the sanctions in the system. The word ?ka?abata? simply means ?ankle?. (Please read chapter 10).
According to their own traditions the ka?aba was built by Adam, destroyed in the flood of Noah, and rebuilt by Abraham and his son Ishmael. The Arabs claim Abraham?s association with the stone house in Mecca dates from the pre-Quranic period to house the black stone which become the center of worship for the early Arab tribes who brought the images of their tutelary gods and installed them around the temple. According to their own tales, it remained a pagan pantheon until Muhammad destroyed all other images except the black stone.
The temple has been subject not only to periodic flooding but, because the use of the lamps in the shrine, to fire as well. In the course of its long history it has been damaged and destroyed by flood and fire more than a score of times, and has often had to be made from its foundations up. Many alterations in its shape and size were made centuries before and after Muhammad. All these are not mentioned in the Quran.
Since the Quran denounces all kinds of physical rituals and worshiping, the idea of God?s house or the cherishing of a black stone in Mecca is proven to be a fabrication by the Arabs. An illuminating comparison can be made between the present day pilgrimages at the square rock structure with its origin from an older religion of Hinduism. Hinduism has traveled to many countries and crossed many continents. Their influence can be found as far as Bali in Indonesia and the Arab soil before its demarcation was their immediate neighbor. Historian P. N Oak in his book ?Was the Ka?aba Originally a Hindu Temple? describes the parallels between the Arabic religion and Hinduism at http//www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm. Among the rituals in Hinduism instituted in the Arabic religion, he said-
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As the pilgrim proceeds towards Mecca he is asked to shave his head and beard and to don special sacred attire that consists of two seamless sheets of white cloth. One is to be worn round the waist and the other over the shoulders. Both these rites are remnants of the old Vedic practice of entering Hindu temples clean- and with holy seamless white sheets.
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The main shrine in Mecca, which houses the Siva emblem, is known as the Kaaba. It is clothed in a black shroud. That custom also originates from the days when it was thought necessary to discourage its recapture by camouflaging it.
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In India the crescent moon is always painted across the forehead of the Siva symbol. Since that symbol was associated with the Siva emblem in Kaaba it came to be grafted on the flag of Islam.
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Another Hindu tradition associated with the Kaaba is that of the sacred stream Ganga (sacred waters of the Ganges river). According to the Hindu tradition Ganga is also inseparable from the Shiva emblem as the crescent moon. Wherever there is a Siva emblem, Ganga must co-exist. True to that association a sacred fount exists near the Kaaba. Its water is held sacred because it has been traditionally regarded as Ganga since pre-Islamic times (Zam-Zam water).
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Muslim pilgrims visiting the Kaaba temple go around it seven times. In no other mosque does the circumambulation prevail. Hindus invariably circumambulate around their deities. This is yet another proof that the Kaaba shrine is a pre-Islamic Indian Shiva temple where the Hindu practice of circumambulation is still meticulously observed.
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Recital of the Namaz five times a day owes its origin to the Vedic injunction of Panchmahayagna (five daily worship- Panch-Maha-Yagna) which is part of the daily Vedic ritual prescribed for all individuals.
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Muslims are enjoined cleanliness of five parts of the body before commencing prayers. This derives from the Vedic injuction ?Shareer Shydhyartham Panchanga Nyasah?.
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The Islamic practice of observing the moon rise before deciding on celebrating the occasion derives from the Hindu custom of breaking fast on Sankranti and Vinayaki Chaturthi only after sighting the moon.
According to the Quran Muhammad condemned all forms of idolatry. Performing rituals around a temple or devoting oneself to any form or rocks or stone has never become part of Islam propagated by him. The Arabs somehow accused the last prophet of being a foolish messenger to kiss the black stone. The Arabs believe that man was able to communicate with the black stone. They say caliph Omar whispered to the black stone and said, ?I know you are nothing but a stone that neither harm nor help?.. If I have not seen the messenger of Allah kiss you, I would never kiss you myself? to imply that the last prophet also worshiped the black stone. This is one of the many methods how the Arabs concocted stories about Muhammad.
The way of life promoted by Abraham as preached by the last prophet is to call people to believe in ONE God, the hereafter, and to work righteousness as the sine qua non. Muhammad came to change the time-honored elements of native paganism of stone worship and idolatry. He undermined the foundations of the original Arabic faith and did not make any concession to compromise. He was the first messenger to warn the Arab race whose forefather were devotees to stone idols. They knew nothing about the monotheistic commitment according to the sanctions in God?s system pioneered by Abraham and Ishmael. Although the Quran did not describe the details of the idol worshiped by the Arabs, it merely says about the ignorant Arab race who were following their forefathers? tradition at that time.
A revelation from the almighty most merciful, to warn the race whose forefathers were never warned before, and they are unaware. Indeed it is truly said (haq-qul-khau-lu) that the majority of them will not believe. (Chapter 36 Verse 4-6)
In no uncertain term this verse implies that the Arab community around the last prophet was a pagan society and they were following their grandfather?s religion. It also says the majority of them (Arabs) will never believe the Quran after it was revealed to the messenger. Such amazing statement does not contradict the earlier statement in Chapter 9 Verse 97 that the Arabs were staunch in disbelief and hypocrisy.
The life account of the last prophet?s according to the book shows that the Arabs rejected him soon after he recited the Quran to them. The Arabs refused to accept the Quran; they also say the Quran was a fabricated falsehood. Instead he was accused of trying to divert them from the idols served by their forefathers.
When our revelations were recited to them they say, ?This is a man who wants to divert you from what was served by our forefathers. They also say, ?this is fabricated falsehood?. (Chapter 34 Verse 43)
Today we see the Arabs boast, praise, cherish, and honor the same man they treated with contempt at the time when he called them to demolish their grandfather?s stone idols. Contrary to the belief of those who idolize their messenger, the last prophet was not a popular man among the Arabs. The Arabs were hostile against him and they had never acknowledged him as the messenger of God; they despised the man, and they oppressed and banished him from his home. The same man who is being glorified today was forced to take refuge in the cave to avoid a death threat. This is the true history about the life of the last prophet. The Quran never mention anything about the famous Arab tales of his migration to a place named Medina. Medina simply means a ?city? and the same word it used to refer to the city in Egypt where Moses was staying. Among all the people around him there was only one man who believed him.
When you did not support, God supported him when the non-believers banished him. He was one of the two people in the cave when he said to his companion, ?Do not worry, God is with us?. (Chapter 9 Verse 40)
From the reading it is obvious the Arabs did not lend support to him. Instead, during the peaceful period his people became the traitors by pretending to claim obedience but later plotted against him to change what was actually said to them. According to the Quran the Arabs had already outlined a conspiracy when he was still alive in order to revert to their forefather?s religion.
They claim obedience. As soon as they leave a group among them secretly narrated contrary to what you told them. God records their conspiracy. Therefore leave them and put your trust in God. God suffices as trustee. (Chapter 4 Verse 81)
Upon the demised of the last prophet the pagan Arabs did not embraced the Islam propagated by him; instead the black stone was reinstated to become the central object of worship. They withdrew from the true Islam, abandoned the Quran and then reanimated their ancestral faith focusing to stone idols and deceitfully gave Muhammad a prominence place in their forefather?s religion. Muhammad became a victim of circumstances after Abraham.
The fundamental principle underlying the Arabic religion is known to as the custom (sunna), a term commonly used by the primitive Arabs to denote the ancestral usage or model pattern of behavior established by the forefathers of the tribe. They also introduce the consensus (ijma) of the tribal assembly, and thus embodying the beliefs and practices of the whole community. The information incorporating these principles and practices are now falsely attributed to the last prophet claiming they were divinely inspired to him and were handed down from generation to generation and called it as the hadith of the prophet. The widespread of intolerance, fanaticism, terrorism, and extremism is now attributed to this innocent man. Perhaps the Arabs may have the answer to the question recited by Muhammad from the Quran about the hadith-
These are God?s revelation that we recite to you with the truth; which hadith besides the revelations of God do they believe? Woe to every inventor, the guilty. He hears God?s revelation recited to him, and then insists on his own way arrogantly, as if he never heard them. Promise him a painful retribution. (Chapter 45 Verse 6-
Like all previous messengers, the last prophet?s duty was to deliver God?s message. His duty does not empower him to be the author or co-authoring of the message. His job was restricted only to deliver God?s message, committed himself to live by it and to conduct his daily life like everyone else. His duties was to remind the people, call them to God and then take the challenge to give life and to prosper God?s prescribed submission that was revealed to him as written in the Quran. He was forewarned in the strongest term not to interfere with the message or utter any personal opinion in the name of God as far as the revelation is concerned.
If he ever made up any utterances and attributed them to us, we will hold him by his right hand and cut his artery. None of you can protect him. (Chapter 69 Verse 44-47)
Contrary to the common belief, the last prophet cannot do or say anything or provide any supplementary guidance besides the Quran. But the Arabs claim they have collected thousands of the sayings of the prophets comprising of barbaric and pagans? laws. It also includes the observance of ritual prayers, worships, pilgrimages, animal sacrifices, stoning to death, male and female circumcisions, the care of the hair, moustache and beards, cleaning teeth and paring nails, conduct of sickness and death and burials, covering of women?s head and many more. Unfortunately, not a single of these teachings came from the Quran.
If he ever made up any utterances and attributed them to us, we will hold him by his right hand and cut his artery. None of you can protect him. (Chapter 69 Verse 44-47)
Taken from http//www.free-minds.org/Arab_Conspiracy.html
PLease inshaAllah verufy the information about the kaaba and its hindu roots inshaAllah and reply back anyone who feels they could try to verify this authors work should do so insha Allah
peace
amanda -
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peace i did a google search about the book refferred to in the arab conspiracy article i earlier posted
http//www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm
please read verify and respond regarding it
thanks
amandai dont know if the information is true I just did a google search on PN OAk
thanks amanda
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Hi Amanda,
peace i did a google search about the book refferred to in the arab conspiracy article i earlier posted
http//www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm
please read verify and respond regarding it
i dont know if the information is true I just did a google search on PN OAkMost of the information on the webpage, especially their explanations appear to hold no truth.
Peace!
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Salam Myr,
Thanks for you information. I personally think that was the original place for the gathering for mankind (not just for muslims). According to the Quran it really does not matter where we gether, it can be Rome or Mecca, but what is really needed is to debate with mankind, rather than doing a ritual. What did millions of muslims achieved by spinning around the Black structure, kissing a stone, throwing stones to pillers, drinking holy water, slaughtering animals? Imagine if those millions of Muslims, leave alone mankind, debete about the war and the environment etc? something would have been done to save the children and women getting killed in Iraq, in Palistine etc...
Peace be on you and all in the forum.