Is Alcohol Forbidden?
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As Salaam Alaikum Phoenix1,
but its not, is it?
that's because humans are capable of understanding right from wrong. People know what's better for them and what's not. Most people don't follow the quran's teachings. I don't see much disorder among them.When Allah says, "Forbidden for you to eat..." what does that mean? That's not advice, that's a command.
salaam
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peace
yes, it is sort of a command, but you don't need to follow it. There's no compulsion remember?
I see Islam as a set of rules, a system, God has given us to make this life easier for us. For example, you have to take a test that i created for you. And i give you a set of rules to follow and say that if you follow those rules, you will get a perfect score on the test. So in those rules, i might tell you to avoid certain things and do certain things. But that doesn't mean that if you don't follow my rules, you won't get a perfect score on the test. You can, but my system will make it easier for you to do it.Also, i think that if people learn from their experiences, which is the only way to truly learn, they end up following a similar path to what God has described in the quran. Because if we choose to abuse drugs, we will find out that its not the best way to stay healthy, and try to stop. The same with gambling.
That's just my understanding, though.
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Hi Phoenix,
Also, i think that if people learn from their experiences, which is the only way to truly learn, they end up following a similar path to what God has described in the quran. Because if we choose to abuse drugs, we will find out that its not the best way to stay healthy, and try to stop. The same with gambling..
People do learn from experience but there are more better ways to learn. From truth/reality. U dont necessarily have to try drugs to know they are harmful. U can see it around u and u can learn so from so many facts. So, experiences need not be personal at all. Its more worthwhile if u learn from truth/reality, than wait around to learn from ur own experience, coz by then, it may become too late to revert, and there may be some irreversible damage.
Peace!
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peace
yes, it is sort of a command, but you don't need to follow it. There's no compulsion remember?
It IS a commandment brother not sort of. Of course there is no compulsion in The Gods system but I wouldn't follow my own ego and the devil as I would thus be committing shirk.
I see Islam as a set of rules, a system, God has given us to make this life easier for us. For example, you have to take a test that i created for you. And i give you a set of rules to follow and say that if you follow those rules, you will get a perfect score on the test. So in those rules, i might tell you to avoid certain things and do certain things. But that doesn't mean that if you don't follow my rules, you won't get a perfect score on the test. You can, but my system will make it easier for you to do it.
I don't agree with your analogy for the simple fact that there are commandments in the Quran which if not folowed you will not pass the test such as NOT associating partners with God.
I do believe though someone can attain Paradise without the Quran but personally I think thats very difficult as The God says in the Quran that the majority of the people that believe do so while being idolaters.
PEACE
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As a Muslim, I do not condone the consumption of alcohol. However, if you are set in your ways even after reviewing the Quranic evidence, there is nothing that I can do to sway your opinion. However, although some of you might perceive alcohol to be permissible, please remember the laws of your city, state, or country in regards to legal age and driving while under the influence. Remember that you will have to answer to God for all of your actions. Personally, I would rather be safe than sorry.
DCS
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Hi all,
please remember the laws of your city, state, or country in regards to legal age and driving while under the influence. Remember that you will have to answer to God for all of your actions. Personally, I would rather be safe than sorry.
Its not just driving and accidents. If one gets drunk to the extent of loosing his sense, there is more likelihood of him committing many more crimes such as physical abuse, murder, rape etc. Its a well known fact that most of domestic abuse is associated with alcohol.
Peace!
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It IS a commandment brother not sort of. Of course there is no compulsion in The Gods system but I wouldn't follow my own ego and the devil as I would thus be committing shirk.
i'm not following my own ego, this is my understanding based on the quran.
And the fact that anyone can achieve paradise without the quran as guidance proves my point. You don't need those 'commands' to succeed, but its better for you if you do. -
i'm not following my own ego, this is my understanding based on the quran.
And the fact that anyone can achieve paradise without the quran as guidance proves my point. You don't need those 'commands' to succeed, but its better for you if you do.Me and you are blessed to have the Quran and knows its from The God.
If you know the Quran is from The God what problem do you have with following The Gods commandments stated in it. I appreciate there's no compulsion in The Gods system BUT when guidance has come and we turn our back to follow our own interpretations that have no quranic basis then that is stepping the line.
PEACE
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peace
I appreciate there's no compulsion in The Gods system BUT when guidance has come and we turn our back to follow our own interpretations that have no quranic basis then that is stepping the line.
there is no line. That's the whole point. You have choice whether you want to follow it or not. All i know is that i am following it. Whether someone else wants to or not is their choice.
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peace
I appreciate there's no compulsion in The Gods system BUT when guidance has come and we turn our back to follow our own interpretations that have no quranic basis then that is stepping the line.
there is no line. That's the whole point. You have choice whether you want to follow it or not. All i know is that i am following it. Whether someone else wants to or not is their choice.
Christans, Jews and every other religion followers claim to be following the true path. How do you know you are following the true path??How do I know I am following the true path?? We both can come to a common agreement and agree Quran is the word of The God. If I come to you and say The God allows me to ignore his laws stated in the Quran and I choose my own laws to follow. Then if you ask me to prove it using the Quran and I say all I know is that i am following it whether someone else wants to or not I believe is going astray and is blinded.
Remember the Quran is the furqan - criteria. Also note how each nation in the Quran was destroyed for following their lusts/desires and not sticking to the laws The God had sent down. Therefore I do believe there is a line which The God gives punishment as a wake up call.
PEACE
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Err to much to keep up maybe I'm just lazy I'm not bothered reading it all.. just skimmed though I totally disagree with you phoenix1 . You see non muslims and think they aint too bad! mate I dont get it. God gave you the law and you're choosing to follow or not to follow. Isnt that a form of kifr? abandoning the God given law? for your own means? own desires? own wants.
If the Quran is just advice and you dont need to follow any of it just believe there is a God then heck why the hell have rules? lets take over the world lets be cruel thats do all the things "bad" as percevied by others but who cares were allowed.. dude that mentality is wrong, kinda reminds me of the christians "just believe in jesus as the saviour and you will be forgiven he would have died for your sins now go my child goo and live" like bleh!
Sorry I didnt meant to offend or be harsh maybe i was abit blunt sorry but honestly if there is no rules there is choas you cant deny that. where did morals come from? where did guilt come from? Religion teachers you to do good and practise good and KEEP AWAY from bad. not to avoid it if you wish but you can do it.. if thats your idea then in your world there is no such thing as "sin" or "wrong" which doesnt make sense
forgive me but i think you should reconsider your views
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peace everyone who disagrees with me,
I understand what you guys are trying to say. But... You cannot decide whether a person is a muslim or not. And there is no compulsion. No compulsion means no force. Islam is the 'best' way of life, but it isn't the only way of life that is 'right.' Going back to my test analogy (which you can read if you havn't already), if you follow islam, you are getting a perfect score. Other systems might not get you that perfect score but you can pass.
As peaceful muslim said, you can learn from other things around you so that you don't have to experience everything to learn it. Although i still believe that is the only way you can really have knowledge of something. You don't know what it feels like to drive a ferrari until you drive a ferrari. No matter how many articles or books you read about em. There's a difference between reading about something and actually being there. But the 'being there' sometimes costs us. It is the hard way to learn things. That's why the quran makes it easy for us by giving us guidance. It doesn't give us any new laws. Those laws are present in this universe and its clear to everyone what they are.
This is only my understanding so far. I'm not sure if i'm right or not, but either what i'm saying makes at least some sense or the quran has contradictions.
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peace everyone who disagrees with me,
I understand what you guys are trying to say. But... You cannot decide whether a person is a muslim or not. And there is no compulsion. No compulsion means no force. Islam is the 'best' way of life, but it isn't the only way of life that is 'right.' Going back to my test analogy (which you can read if you havn't already), if you follow islam, you are getting a perfect score. Other systems might not get you that perfect score but you can pass.
I completely disagree with this. Your implying with your analogy that the system called Islam is NOT the only way to pass i.e get to Heaven but there are other ways too. Thus your analogy or understanding contradicts this quranic verse;
And whoever follows other than surrender as a system, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers.
As peaceful muslim said, you can learn from other things around you so that you don't have to experience everything to learn it. Although i still believe that is the only way you can really have knowledge of something. You don't know what it feels like to drive a ferrari until you drive a ferrari. No matter how many articles or books you read about em. There's a difference between reading about something and actually being there. But the 'being there' sometimes costs us. It is the hard way to learn things. That's why the quran makes it easy for us by giving us guidance. It doesn't give us any new laws. Those laws are present in this universe and its clear to everyone what they are.
This is only my understanding so far. I'm not sure if i'm right or not, but either what i'm saying makes at least some sense or the quran has contradictions.
Of course certain things we have to directly experience to KNOW how it feels. But the commandments like DO NOT KILL a human being is not something you have to do you just need to use your God given brain and UNDERSTAND that is cruel, immoral, barbaric etc to KNOW not to do it. Just giving you an example that you it's absurd to justify doing forbidden things to experience it for you to KNOW its "wrong."
PEACE
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Peace,
dude that mentality is wrong, kinda reminds me of the christians "just believe in jesus as the saviour and you will be forgiven he would have died for your sins now go my child goo and live" like bleh!
again this...
how could that be so fixed on so many muslim (the label) minds?
are you sure they (Christians) say "go and live!"?I'll start a thread about this to not spamming this one but I don't have almost any hope this misinterpretation will be clarified ever. If only you were aware that there are several branches in Christianity --but there are other points too.
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peace
what i was trying to say about experiencing stuff to truly know is that if there was no quran, and we had no knowledge of these things. That's what we had to do. But the quran makes it easy for us by giving us guidance. There's a hard way to learn everything, but people don't have to do that because of the quran. There are certain things, like murder, stealing, hurting people (mentally or physically) that are part of every culture. Its like a universal moral system that most people follow. Just by instinct. So people don't have to read and follow the quran itself and follow everyone of its rules to succeed. Even if people don't follow them, they somehow end up on the straight path if they want to live a good life.
but 2-pac, you maybe right. Im not here to argue, but to learn.
But what do you think is the explanation of "there is no compulsion?"
If we have no choice. If we are compelled to follow islam or go to hell, how is there no compulsion?