gay people and islam
-
salam .
i quote M. Asadi here(copied from rationalreality.com)HOMOSEXUALITY THE SCIENTIFIC PERSPECTIVE
Of all topics most popular in today's media, issues concerning homosexuals and homosexuality in general top the list. Homosexuality is generally defined as a sexual relationship between partners of the same sex. Debate concerning its causes and consequences has been going on for many centuries and almost in every period in human history. However, never before in human history has it been granted such wide scale acceptance in western society as it has now.
The question that I seek to answer in this paper is whether such wide scale acceptance should in fact be granted to homosexual behavior? Is such behavior rational, scientifically functional or is it actually detrimental to society in which we live?
HOW ABOUT READING THIS
CLICK HERE HOMOSEXUALITY THE TRUTH & SOCIETY
-
first of all, i only visited this website and joined the forum out of curiosity of what the people in this forum think about homosexuality. and obviously, many don't agree with it -B but i noticed that some are still exploring other possibilities to interpret the story of lot. whatever it is, i just hope that people in this forum will not justify violence, either direct or indirect, towards gay people. a shooting and stabbing at gay bar in new bedford just happened, and this kind of violence that is just similar how fundamentalist muslims justify themselves to kill people and destroy facilities that they think are against their teachings.
maybe you all denounce homosexuality, and i respect that, but to take any legal rights away from gay community such as marriage right is not fair at all.
secondly, i'm not trying to educate anyone at all, i know you guys have way much more knowledge than i do. i just posted my opinions, and i respect your opinions on this matter too.
as far as incest is concerned, i think it's different from homosexuality because homosexual relationship involves two adult with full consent and informed decision. while most of incest cases, it's the parents or other relatives who molested the children in the family, which means that there is manipulation of the adults towards the children, and it makes it worse because the children would have mixed feelings, they got angry and scared but at the same time it's their family who did it to them, so many incest cases ended up unreported because the victims feel too ashamed that their own family would do something like that to them.
relationships in the family, is a type of relationship that doesn't involve sex, the children respect the parents, and the parents nurture the children, so do between brothers and sisters. if sex is involved in the relatinship between parents and children, or brother and sister, it will be psychologically conflicting, plus they are biologically related. which is very different from common homosexual relationships that happen between people outside family, that they are not biologically related.
as far as the birth control is concerned, i hope that you guys won't consider it as religiously unlawful, because it's better to plan the family ahead than having many children but not able to raise them properly.
anyway, my argument might not be enough for everyone in this forum, and you guys might have better position in the eyes of god's, but i just hope that tolerance will not be forgotten when living in this diverse society. -
Peace "topo",
but to take any legal rights away from gay community such as marriage right is not fair at all.
... but i just hope that tolerance will not be forgotten when living in this diverse society.JK- You have to define tolerance first. If by tolerance you mean no physical attacks or insults, ok. If you mean that we should stop arguing against you, then no we wont agree. Also if the majority of people in a country decide to make a law to legally punish those are homosexuals then that is their right too and i see thats whats about to happen in the US. Ofcourse all normal court procedures would have to be undergone and individuals should not just take beat up the homos. As for now since such laws do not exist we as individuals still have a right to speak out against hs and we also have a right to argue against you having a right to marry hs, be that accepted by the majority or not, just as you have a right to argue for hs.
-
-) we can always have arguments, with respect to each other. and your definition of tolerance is exactly right.
and both political parties in the US have been politicizing this issue, and it must be quite conflicting for people who vote for political party that is against gay marriage but invaded other country for oil -B but that's another story.
i guess i've become too political here, sorry guys. i'm still permanent resident, so i don't vote -B
anyway, i really appreciate all your responds, and there is no end for any arguments, because that is what makes the civilization keeps advancing.
peace to you all! -
topo
as far as incest is concerned, i think it's different from homosexuality because homosexual relationship involves two adult with full consent and informed decision. while most of incest cases, it's the parents or other relatives who molested the children in the family, which means that there is manipulation of the adults towards the children, and it makes it worse because the children would have mixed feelings, they got angry and scared but at the same time it's their family who did it to them, so many incest cases ended up unreported because the victims feel too ashamed that their own family would do something like that to them.
I do know that. In my original post on the topic, I said that I would disregard incestual rape, etc b/c I know that it does happen. However, my point was that even if a both parties consent, incest would still be socially unacceptable by virute of what it is. For example, Hitler and his niece reportedly had an affair together despite the fact that they were related. It was a consentual relationship that most people think is quite twisted.
By the way, welcome to the forum -
Hi idolfree1,
This is an interesting discussion. Perhaps u should create a seperate thread and move our conversation there?
Peace be upon you peaceful musilm,
Well, would u say that two like minded heterosexual people(or like u say, spiritually minded people) who also happen to be infertile shouldnt get married since their marriage wont create a child?
Before I continue down this line of marriage, please list the reasons besides raising a peaceful, submitting child, that two would have for getting married. I just want to open this up a bit so we can see clearly.
I wouldnt say the only purpose of marriage is ''creating a child''.
Its can be a part of it....a significant part........but then again some may decide against it.......Its totally a personal decission.Its difficult to say what marriage stands for....but I shall try to put forth my views/ definitions
I think, two people get married to unify(physically, spiritually etc) in a bond of companionship, love, respect...... Its a legal, spiritual, physical union.... a commitment to see through the journey of life together .........a bond that brings two like minded people together into a relationship of commitment and love .
A general definition of marriage is that it is a social contract between two individuals that unites their lives legally, economically and emotionally.
Being married also gives legitmacy to sexual relations within the marriage.What if the two heterosexual partners are fertile but yet choose not to have a child and instead decide to adopt?
Great! They will be good role models , showing the child how yin and yang complement each other in ALL of the universe.
So, then are u saying marriage is not only about CREATING A CHILD?
Should they not get married since they dont intend to create a child?
Yes, they should get married and take up the responsibilty that two others failed to do.
Good, We agree here.
So, why cant two gay people get married and adopt a child?Peace!
-
Peace,
So, why cant two gay people get married and adopt a child?
Because its unatural, its wrong and its againt the will of the creator as according to the Quran. If you do not believe in the book of God and common sense then its OK .
Well, its common sense that brings forth the question. wink
Whats unnatural about 2 men or 2 women raising a child?
Dont single parents raise their children on their own these days? wink
R they bad parents?What about Angelina Jolie? She is single and she adopted 2 kids. Is she a bad parent?
Peace!
-
Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,
I started to respond but I want to take my time with this, and actually, I want to create a seperate thread as you requested.
For now, let me just conclude here by saying that no one plugs a plug into another plug, nor do they try plug a socket into a socket, the plug and socket were CREATED for a purpose, anything alse is a deviation. This is OBSERVABLE LAW. Thats the ultimat proof, especially over any subjective example like "they love each other", etc.
-
Hi idolfree1,
For now, let me just conclude here by saying that no one plugs a plug into another plug, nor do they try plug a socket into a socket, the plug and socket were CREATED for a purpose, anything alse is a deviation. This is OBSERVABLE LAW. Thats the ultimat proof, especially over any subjective example like "they love each other", etc.
Is life all about plugs and sockets? wink
Is there more to life?Peace!
-
Peace "topo",
... and it must be quite conflicting for people who vote for political party that is against gay marriage but invaded other country for oil -B but that's another story.
JK- I dont think the American public who voted against gay marriage has any intentions to invade other countries for oil. For that the US lobby, which is filled with many corrupt leaders, is responisble. GOD Bless!
-
Peace "Pecefulmuslim",
Well, its common sense that brings forth the question. wink
Whats unnatural about 2 men or 2 women raising a child?
Dont single parents raise their children on their own these days? wink
R they bad parents?What about Angelina Jolie? ) She is single and she adopted 2 kids. Is she a bad parent?
Peace!
JK- I completely diagree with that. A child needs both parents, male and female, in order to develop a healthy psychology in life and this is a fact nobody can deny. A child growing up with only a mother misses somnething and one growing up with only a mother misses something. A child growing uip with two mothers or fathers would get psychic. GOD Bless!
-
Peace be upon you,
Is life all about plugs and sockets?
Is there more to life?Yes, there is much more to life, unfortunately however, we are talking about SEX, not the broad topic of Life. Thats the mistake that happens everytime with this topic, it gets off track with "love" and 'rights' and so forth. This is about SEX, and plugs go in sockets by DESIGN D
-
Peace be upon you Peaceful Musilm,
Actually , life is about "plugs" and "sockets" now that I think about it. The God created ALL THINGS in pairs, remember?
There is a yin and yang to all things. Thats how one can become balanced.
-
Hi jonny_k,
A child needs both parents, male and female, in order to develop a healthy psychology in life and this is a fact nobody can deny.
I agree. A perfect environment for a child to grow would be in the midst of 2 compatible and loving parents.
A child growing up with only a mother misses somnething and one growing up with only a mother misses something.
May be so but then again not necessarily so.
And again 'missing' something doesnt make the environment unsafe for the child to grow in. Single parents who happen to be responsible and loving bring up their kids pretty well.A child growing uip with two mothers or fathers would get psychic. GOD Bless!
This, I think is ur preconcieved notion. U should look around for truth. Check out for urself. Do children brought up by homosexuals become psychic?
Peace!
-
Hi idolfree1,
Is life all about plugs and sockets?
Is there more to life?Yes, there is much more to life, unfortunately however, we are talking about SEX, not the broad topic of Life. Thats the mistake that happens everytime with this topic, it gets off track with "love" and 'rights' and so forth. This is about SEX, and plugs go in sockets by DESIGN D
O, r we? I thought we were talking of homosexuals.... as in individuals(who happen to have sexual inclination towards members of the same sex). R we discussing the sexual act itself? But I thought topo's posts have been about 'dont discriminate homosexuals, tolerance for homosexuals, and dont abuse homosexuals etc ', So, where r we discussing the methods of sex by homosexuals?
And anyways, why should we talk about their sexual act? So, u dont think its natural or normal? Fair enough. But if 2 consensual partners are biologically inclined to feel so, why are we to be concerned?
We can only get concerned if the act harms those involved or others. Does it?
O well, u might say the action itself is sinful no matter how normal or natural its for them. Why not let God decide that? He would judge every act, every belief of every soul taking into consideration every tiny factor and judge in the most fair way. So, lets leave it to Him to judge how wrong the act is.
Actually , life is about "plugs" and "sockets" now that I think about it. The God created ALL THINGS in pairs, remember?
There is a yin and yang to all things. Thats how one can become balanced.By 'plugs' and 'sockets', I think, u r implying the physical body, right? In that case, life is much more than plugs and sockets. Definitely.
Yeah, God created all things in pairs.......The same God created hermaphrodites.......... The same God created Homosexuals. So, Now what shall we do?
And who knows...Homosexuals might have yin & yang too?wink
Peace!
-
Peace be upon you Joe,
Not to be rude but I think some males of the gay community can find alternative sockets for their plugs.
I was trying to find an emoticon for throwing up, but couldnt
But yes, that is true, however, when the orgasm happens, we once again see how God's design shows objectively the purpose. The sperm will never reach thier intended home in any other socket Just like plugging my toaster into the sand brickwall
lol
-
But yes, that is true, however, when the orgasm happens, we once again see how God's design shows objectively the purpose. The sperm will never reach thier intended home in any other socket D
Yeah, but thats when the intention is to create a child.
Its not always about creating a child.
Even in vaginal sex, How does the sperm reach the destination when a guy uses condom? or when the female uses one?And I bet, Homosexuals are well aware that their sperm wont reach the destination by anal sex wink
Peace!