suicide, going to hell?
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Not long ago i encountered the worst crisis in my life, and i was at the rim of cursing God for it all. It took me out of everything i was used to and left me heartbroken on top of it. However, the situation took me to a place where i gained a massive amount of knowledge that i needed, totally changed perspective of life, and started to come to peace with who i really am. All this in less than 2 months.
Now i smile humbled, and think of all the times where i have cursed God because it didnt give me the things the way i wanted it. I have come to realise that i always get excactly what i ask for, i just often doesnt get it how i expected it, or in the shape i thought it would come.
hello
your experience is very similar to mine, in fact I did cursed god "Allah forbids and forgive me" but mine was not related any heart breaking, it happens to me at early age and is the best thing happened to me despite its pain, I really apprecite that Allah distined what happened to me because it cut it really short to know Him
Peace
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Ok...just to recap
There isn't anything in the reading outright confirming suicide as per depression (the kind that you would need to actually experience to understand it) is a gateway to hell. It makes absolutely zero sense. When your suffering in life is that bad, grievances you've never caused to yourself, and that have amounted for years, you are the one already being pained beyond anyone else. Mental torture is worse than physical in the long run.
For there to be a god with even the amount of mercy our worst U.S. president has had, then no poor depressed sufferer, especially a young person could possibly suffer more. What wrong did they do, cease the grief they were getting that wasn't deserved? Lol.
Also about this state before death being the key to the after abode. So let me get this straight, if Hitler after all his horrendous acts of genocide that pretty much the world knows about, at the last minute in his life decided to believe in God and be "at peace with himself", he has a better chance of making it to Heaven (or hey, just out of Hell even) than someone who had unrivaled depression and tragedy in their lives committing suicide? Ok, this god's judgement is quite laughable then.
If that verse exists, then people are self-interpreting it way too wrong; kind of like how Sunnis interpret many verses to give men the upper hand against women, like the "wife beating" verse that doesn't even exist ("daraba" is not beating in this verse; its context here is different and means something else).
And let's say someone was physically tortured to death by others, and this person was a righteous believer and yadda yadda. Explain how his/her state of mind is different than that of someone with unfathomable depression who committed suicide after such a long time hoping it'll go away or even lessen (when it didn't).
-M
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And We appointed a meeting time for Moses of forty nights, but then you took the calf after him while you were wicked. Then We forgave you after that, perhaps you would be thankful. And We gave Moses the Scripture and the criterion, perhaps you would be guided. And Moses said to his people 'O my people, you have wronged your souls by taking the calf, so repent to your Maker, and kill yourselves. That is better for you with your Maker, so He would forgive you. He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.' And you said 'O Moses, we will not believe you until we see God openly!' So the lightning bolt took you while you were still staring. Then We resurrected you after your death that you may be appreciative. And We shaded you with clouds, and sent down to you manna and quails 'Eat from the goodness of the provisions We have provided you.' They did not wrong Us, but it was their souls that they wronged." (Quran 251-57)
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I think that the aya about not burdening people with more than they can bear may be interpreted other than that anything that happens to you you can endure, be it whatever and that if you can't necessariy you are guilty.
There is acontradiction. If someone kills himself because one cannot put up with any more, and one is not some demon deluded with power that would kill himself out of pride, but does so out of suffering, then the aya would be lying, because obviously some people cannot put up with the suffering. So the way we should understand the aya may be is not that, but should or at least could be understood in the sense that even if you cannot endure suffering without killing youself, God will not burden with with the guilt.
That said, I agree 100% with those that have gone through a lot of suffering to the point of breaking and say they feel it was for good. I think most people have gone through that, and I would under all circumstances desuade anybody if I can from killing himself. But if someone does, I am completely unable to believe and with good reason that that person is doomed to hell for whatever long. In fact, in life, that person was in hell. You must be under the most unsufferable suffering in order to seek death. It doesn't seem fair or logical, not at all bilma3aruf that the Qur'an enjoins, that if through not fault of yours you are suffering like hell in this life, therefore in the other more of the same. If that is fair, I do not know what is unfair.
In general, I feel that we should not speak about the akhira in terms about whuich we know nothing. We speculate and we speculate many times to cause desperation of distrust of God in others. We know that God is never unjust to anybody ?how could He do to a person what even imperfect persons like us would never do? Would one one of any normal people, not deseased, condemn anybody to undescribable suffering just because he could not stand the pain he suffered. We would consider such a person a monster. ?How can we believe that someone who is most latif, wadud, rahman, rahim, would do such monstruosity to anybody?
I would say, let us not plan for whatever God will do with us. We know we will return to Him one way or another, so let us just ask for His mercy for all creatures and specially for those who have suffered most, because they will be the most grateful, in sha' Allah
To take one's own life takes a lot of madness or a lot of courage or a lot of desperation. A person, otherwise good who commits suicide must be really be pushed to the extreme to do it. Deserves compassion not hell.
Salaam
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I think that the aya about not burdening people with more than they can bear may be interpreted other than that anything that happens to you you can endure, be it whatever and that if you can't necessariy you are guilty.
There is acontradiction. If someone kills himself because one cannot put up with any more, and one is not some demon deluded with power that would kill himself out of pride, but does so out of suffering, then the aya would be lying, because obviously some people cannot put up with the suffering. So the way we should understand the aya may be is not that, but should or at least could be understood in the sense that even if you cannot endure suffering without killing youself, God will not burden with with the guilt.
That said, I agree 100% with those that have gone through a lot of suffering to the point of breaking and say they feel it was for good. I think most people have gone through that, and I would under all circumstances desuade anybody if I can from killing himself. But if someone does, I am completely unable to believe and with good reason that that person is doomed to hell for whatever long. In fact, in life, that person was in hell. You must be under the most unsufferable suffering in order to seek death. It doesn't seem fair or logical, not at all bilma3aruf that the Qur'an enjoins, that if through not fault of yours you are suffering like hell in this life, therefore in the other more of the same. If that is fair, I do not know what is unfair.
In general, I feel that we should not speak about the akhira in terms about whuich we know nothing. We speculate and we speculate many times to cause desperation of distrust of God in others. We know that God is never unjust to anybody ?how could He do to a person what even imperfect persons like us would never do? Would one one of any normal people, not deseased, condemn anybody to undescribable suffering just because he could not stand the pain he suffered. We would consider such a person a monster. ?How can we believe that someone who is most latif, wadud, rahman, rahim, would do such monstruosity to anybody?
I would say, let us not plan for whatever God will do with us. We know we will return to Him one way or another, so let us just ask for His mercy for all creatures and specially for those who have suffered most, because they will be the most grateful, in sha' Allah
To take one's own life takes a lot of madness or a lot of courage or a lot of desperation. A person, otherwise good who commits suicide must be really be pushed to the extreme to do it. Deserves compassion not hell.
Salaam
Peace,
I completely agree with this 100%.
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Suicide is still taking a life, which is a major bad deed except in certain cases. So I believe that you will get the same punishment as killing somebody else.
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Suicide is still taking a life, which is a major bad deed except in certain cases. So I believe that you will get the same punishment as killing somebody else.
Shalom Aleikhom,
yes Me agrees .....simple )
Peace
--------- Student of Allah -
Eh, I don't know. I get the whole "taking of a life" angle. But I've also worked with suicidal people before, and the mental state of a suicidal person is quite different from a murderous person. There's also lots of statistics about people committing suicide after having endured some sort of trauma like rape, abuse, etc. They tend to internalize the malice of the person who victimizes them, and they in a sense have a part of themselves that continues to perpetuate the wishes of their attacker. It is a very strange and sad thing to witness, and I would have a hard time accepting the idea that such people, who have already endured a great injustice, would then be subjected to the same penalty of someone guilty of murder.
There's also the society/community side to consider. When society becomes disordered, more people commit suicide. See Emil Durkheim's research about post WWII and "anomie". I think part of the responsibility falls on us to create healthy, well-ordered communities that do not allow a lot of the nonsense that goes on. In doing so, suicides will not be nearly a frequent. If we fail in this responsibility, perhaps we too bear part of the blame.
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What about those girls that were locked up in a basement room and raped over and over again by their own fathers (and becoming pregnant as a result). If they became suicidal, I wouldn't blame them. If they succeeded in killing themselves....I still wouldn't blame them. It's something that completely changes your life and more often than not, changes you as a person. I think at the end of it, it depends on the situation.
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For suicide, we should not belittle the fact that many if not most who commit suicide suffer from depression or some other form of mental illness. Society does not tend to view mental illness as at par with illnesses like cancer, but it is very much an illness and should be treated and viewed as such. In Canada, a Mental Health Commission delivered a report advocating for greater understanding of mental illness from this perspective, and was considered groundbreaking when it was issued. Many mosques refuse to allow for the funerals of those who committed suicide, but many others have now begun to acknowledge that the deceased was mentally ill and have gone ahead and performed their funerals anyways.
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i don't know if this issue has been addressed before, but i've been wondering what would happen to people who do suicide out of chronic desperation in their lives. would they go to hell?
what about euthanasia for people who are critically ill and there is no hope of life for further medication? is it allowed in the quran?Definitely they will go to their grave..
Beyond that is left for speculation...
Salam / Peace
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Peace,
I don't know why this is a subject that is carrying with it "speculation," especially that the Quran makes clear under what conditions a person who commits suicide is going to Hell
429-30 O you who believe, do not consume your money between you unjustly, unless it is through a trade which is mutually agreed by you. And do not kill yourselves; God is Merciful towards you. And whoever does so out of animosity and transgression, We will cast him to a Fire; and this for God is very easy.
Udwan = Animosity (also can be "agression".
Zulman = Transgression.If a person kills himself for the 2 reasons mentioned above - then he/she is destined for Hell. Otherwise, no worries.
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Peace,
I don't know why this is a subject that is carrying with it "speculation," especially that the Quran makes clear under what conditions a person who commits suicide is going to Hell
429-30 O you who believe, do not consume your money between you unjustly, unless it is through a trade which is mutually agreed by you. And do not kill yourselves; God is Merciful towards you. And whoever does so out of animosity and transgression, We will cast him to a Fire; and this for God is very easy.
Udwan = Animosity (also can be "agression".
Zulman = Transgression.If a person kills himself for the 2 reasons mentioned above - then he/she is destined for Hell. Otherwise, no worries.
Indeed.. Although I see the focus in this case is more towards those who 'consume/destroy other people's wealth unjustly, unless it is through a trade/business which is mutually agreed". And whoever does that IS an act of 'aggression and transgression'. And it's 'intriguing' on why "And not 'kill' yourselves" (Wala Taqtulu Anfusakum) is thrown in between.
And what is 'suicide'? Does the act of 'agreeing to be killed by other people' is considered as an act of 'suicide'? Two things come into mind
- Euthanasia / Mercy Killings
- Abraham's son 'agreement' to be butchered by his dad as 'sacrifice'.
Salam / Peace
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And We appointed a meeting time for Moses of forty nights, but then you took the calf after him while you were wicked. Then We forgave you after that, perhaps you would be thankful. And We gave Moses the Scripture and the criterion, perhaps you would be guided. And Moses said to his people 'O my people, you have wronged your souls by taking the calf, so repent to your Maker, and kill yourselves. That is better for you with your Maker, so He would forgive you. He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.' And you said 'O Moses, we will not believe you until we see God openly!' So the lightning bolt took you while you were still staring. Then We resurrected you after your death that you may be appreciative. And We shaded you with clouds, and sent down to you manna and quails 'Eat from the goodness of the provisions We have provided you.' They did not wrong Us, but it was their souls that they wronged." (Quran 251-57)
About this verse I found this commentary and personally I think it makes sence.
It was the design of the Almighty to resurrect this particular group from the Children of Israel to manifest His signs. Thus, once they refused to kill themselves, God made them die anyway and then resurrected them to make His will done. Thus the paradox is removed since God is the only One who may take life as it is His gift to begin with.
Here is the link
http//free-minds.org/quran/PM/A01Peace
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Suicide is still taking a life, which is a major bad deed except in certain cases. So I believe that you will get the same punishment as killing somebody else.
I think that's what huruf was referring to.
Peace,
Carlee
-Edit- And Jafar brought up another point. Reading that verse again, it doesn't seem that God is referring to suicide with the animosity and transgression thing. I've been thinking about that recently. How exactly to you kill yourself "out of animosity and transgression"? If you have animosity (hatred), wouldn't you desire that person you hate to be harmed? Wouldn't you be transgressing with regards to your hatred for that person?
"And whoever does so" then doesn't seem to be referring to the self-killing, since the phrase follows "God is merciful". You'd think you'd be casted in hell for transgressing against and hating someone and that you don't kill yourself out of transgression and animosity. When has that even happened before?
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I understood that verse differently. Not referring to suicide but basically God telling us not to kill 'ourselves' over money.
i know a guy who did exactly that to his estranged wife/child. is it really 'animosity/transgression' or someone who sees himself as the victim, troubled, irrational/delusional in his thought process, suffering?
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@ IAMOP Actually, I answered my own question yesterday while pondering it myself. Yeah that makes sense.
@ justamuslim Another good point. I've read that "kill" in the Quran can be used in more than one context. I mean, "daraba" does not always have to mean hit right? The Quran PDF on this site mentions how we should think critically when reading the verses, and accept what makes most sense. To me right now actually, that verse IS looking like it's saying don't "kill" yourself over the subject of money, not suicide per se.
But since the husband shooting himself through the brain example seems pretty messed up, I can imagine that verse could be talking about something like that.
