are you and me going to heaven?
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peace nazz and someone,and all. Nazz if you analyse what you said it implies a dependence on time and situation(context) for god.It also involves god changing his mind? All these are limitations and refute the idea of an all-powerful god.
Someone;i believe if some people got to heaven(the heaven defined as a place, )and they could have anything they wanted,they would want to be god. shock But this is simply an unobtainable desire,as there is no all-powerful god, there are an infinite number of limited gods only.
Peace all. -
Nazz if you analyse what you said it implies a dependence on time and situation(context) for god.It also involves god changing his mind?
It most probably does. But I conceded this before I began?it was necessary to "play ball" with your argument which is flawed for exactly the same reasons. winkthere is no all-powerful god, there are an infinite number of limited gods only.
I'd be most interested to read your opinions and evidence proving this theory, at very least supporting it.Cheers
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peace nazz and all. One all-powerful,all-knowing creator theory(monotheism) has too many flaws in it for me personally. I define a god as anything which posesses will,life,power-but all in a limited sense.In this definition everything that exists is a god-;infinitheism. No one one god can totally dominate another,and they can only influence other gods partially.
Nothing is created,everything has always existed and always will. Suffering is caused by innapropriate influence of one god on another(or trying to dominate another against their will). When gods join together(for relative peace)willingly a peaceful situation can occur. When gods conspire(for relative suffering)a stressful situation can occur. The will or soul(or god) is on an eternal cycle of reincarnation,birth and death.(death is a journey to another dimension or a new body,or a relative sleep).
No soul(or god or will or life)can be destroyed or created,only changed to a different form.(same as the conservation of energy; matter cannot be created or destroyed,but can only change form.)
Uniqueness and infinite diversity.
no one individual god can know everything(infinity) or know nothing. Infinity is a metaphor for a number you cannot count,and nothing is a metaphor for the abscence of something you can perceive.(in other words everyone knows something.) A cosmic democracy. D
peace all. -
Peace
No one one god can totally dominate another,and they can only influence other gods partially.
Interesting how such a cohesion came into being despite the conditions you have mentioned in the above statement. Please describe the logic therein.
everything has always existed and always will
Please detail this for I have known certain Dodos and pigeons to be no longer among us.
Joe
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Peace be unto you Nazz,
Thanks for clarifying this problem for me, it's been in the back of my mind for a while after reading an atheist site. What you're saying makes sense to me, God has the power to change any decision. It does seem a lot like that whole "can God create a rock even he can't pickup problem"?, and I guess this lies outside our logic as humans. Thanks for the help. -
Peace nabi and all. Do you see australia at the moment? no,beacuse it is out of your view. Well the dodo and pigeons may be out of our view.
In another dimension.
And who said cohesion? Some experiences are cohesive and some are chaotic.(i stated this principle in my previous post.) Suffering is caused by wills colliding or trying to dominate.(cohesion by relative cooperation of wills.)
peace all. -
Peace nabi. Are you suggesting we have cohesion in the world because of monotheism? A lot of people see a lot of the opposite as well.( relative disorder and suffering),how does one perfect,absolute creator theory explain this?(or do we blame it on satan,cant god control him?)
Peace all. -
Peace
In another dimension.
Please provide your evidence.
And who said cohesion?
You did.
When gods join together(for relative peace)willingly a peaceful situation can occur. When gods conspire(for relative suffering)a stressful situation can occur.
That is cohesion. If you do not know the meaning of the word then please look in a dictionary.
Still you did not explain the logic of your theory to me as I asked. How does such a cohesion happen. Was it always there according to you? What makes the gods come into cohesion? What provides the means for such cohesion to take place?
Joe
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Peace nabi. Are you suggesting we have cohesion in the world because of monotheism? A lot of people see a lot of the opposite as well.( relative disorder and suffering),how does one perfect,absolute creator theory explain this?(or do we blame it on satan,cant god control him?)
Peace all. -
Peace
Are you suggesting we have cohesion in the world because of monotheism?
I suggested nothing. I'm asking about your theories, not trying to prove mine. If you want to take it there I'll give my views. I hope you do the same.
A lot of people see a lot of the opposite as well.( relative disorder and suffering),how does one perfect,absolute creator theory explain this?(or do we blame it on satan,cant god control him?)
The God I know of retricts and supplies as It pleases according to the measurements It metes. People experience harsh times or good times whether they good or not because in these situations the people will prove to themselves their true worth to themselves upon which God will distribute judgement.
I have told you before I think you are only a dabbler, you have obviously not read the reading much, nor have you much experience of Buddhism of which you already assume is better than Traditional Islam.
Joe
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DEAR AHMEDBAHGMAT,
I appreciate your valid points?saying about the Most Gracious what we do not know?But could you please refrain from posting in GIANT text, I feel it makes reading the "calmer" posts rather difficult. )>-
no worries mate
sorry I just used to post the Quran verses this way to make it stand out, it is just a habit that I do for the last 2 years on forums
i will try to comply, lol
no promise though my friend
peace
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Peace Nazz,
"What do u think the difference between 'one who believes in God' and 'one who doesnt' is ? And if possible can u give examples from the period of Quranic revelation?"
Read the following; those who do the opposite are those destined for hell. (If you wanted sources other than the Quran for the "period of Quranic revelation", then maybe check out some Hadith? cry )
Successful indeed are the believers;who are reverent during their Contact Prayers (Salat).And they avoid vain talk.And they give their obligatory charity (Zakat).And they maintain their chastity.Only with their spouses, or those who are rightfully theirs, do they have sexual relations; they are not to be blamed.Those who transgress these limits are the transgressors.When it comes to deposits entrusted to them, as well as any agreements they make, they are trustworthy.And they observe their Contact Prayers (Salat) regularly.Such are the inheritors.They will inherit Paradise, wherein they abide forever. 231?2312 ... See also 2177In short, r u saying the difference between 'one who believes in God' and 'one who doesnt' is a believer does good deeds and lives righteously while a non believer doesnt?
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If god sees into your heart/soul, then it doesn't matter what you are labeled either by yourself or by others in your mortal life. All that matters is what is seen in your heart. One can deny any label book or teaching of man, but as long as his actions intent thought and heart are sincere, true and in a manner to lead by example and decency then what reason would there be to deny such a soul into a heaven?
labels ad such are nothing more than way to prove something to others. Why should god have to worry about that? He can see into your soul.
God is all knowing an all seeing, so i believe it is what he can see and we cannot see that is most important. (not that I believe in a separate heaven and hell) but either way, it is our unseen that counts
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G'day Peace, peace, hug
Thanks for clarifying this problem for me, it's been in the back of my mind for a while after reading an atheist site. What you're saying makes sense to me, God has the power to change any decision.
"God erases whatever He wills and fixes whatever He wills. With Him is the original master record." 1339
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peace
I think to find out what heaven and hell really are, we first have to define the "soul."
what is it?
that might bring us one step closer to figuring out what happens to it when we die.heaven is when we are with the one we love
and hell is when we lost the one we love -
Peace nabi. I just thought i would clarify something for you.I have read the quran in arabic many,many times. (i studied arabic in syria). I have been brought up since birth in a muslim environment, and lived in syria for 9 months. I have studied islam for 25 years. I have read quran translations from hadith sources,sufi,shiah,quran only,god only and i have read nearly all the articles and threads on free-minds.I have also read extensively on other sites and literature on other religions as well as islam.(on and off since i was around 7 years old,i am now 32) .I have read and taken lessons and discussed islam and religion with many,many people.I agree my knowledge on all aspects of buddhism is small,but from what i know(of the basic principles) so far is(in my opinion) that it is more humane than traditional islam. By traditional islam i mean(as i have already stated before) amputations,beheadings,dogma,not verifying with knowledge etc,etc..)
I also dont doubt that some aspects of traditional buddhism are illogical and dogmatic. I have given some of my views on monotheism. I would appreciate some logical refutations or comments.
Ps;i think 'dabbling' is different to being open-minded and searching for better understandings.(A 25 year dabble? shock ).
Peace all.