Correct Translation of 5:38-Please?
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i don't really know, Allah only knows, but here is spmething i know, at least they didn't claim to be messengers but he did lol
regardsBut Mr. Edip and Layth translated it very differently. You say cut off hands and they translate it as mark hands or confiscate their belongings. If it is CLEAR ARABIC why so different translate - whats going on?
Regards,
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i don't really know, Allah only knows, but here is spmething i know, at least they didn't claim to be messengers but he did lol
regardsBut Mr. Edip and Layth translated it very differently. You say cut off hands and they translate it as mark hands or confiscate their belongings. If it is CLEAR ARABIC why so different translate - whats going on?
Regards,
well, if they speak arabic then I'm sure they will admit that it means literally to cut off the hand, and if you look at my first comment here you will see that I used the word lietrally, therefore to answer your question, Why they did that?, the answer is simply they didn't translate it literally
that is what is going on
regards
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So it literally means to cut off the hands,then thats how it should be translated....end of story,no personal interpretations needed..besides what if Allah says to cut off the hands and thats what he meant,then I say NO NO NO its just symbolic and translate it like what I THINK it should mean...that would be like me saying I KNOW BETTER than God..thats dangerous..imo..
Im not referring to Arabic words with more than one meaning here,but if a word has one meaning, it should be left that way,not candy coated to what we think it should mean. -
Peace JHamza
now that you have chosen one of the translations as the true one, what will you do? I mean, what's your next step, or why did you want to know the true translation?
So it literally means to cut off the hands,then thats how it should be translated....
why do you think just the literal is the way it should be translated? -- this last is a question about language not about religion.
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Peace JHamza
now that you have chosen one of the translations as the true one, what will you do? I mean, what's your next step, or why did you want to know the true translation?
So it literally means to cut off the hands,then thats how it should be translated....
why do you think just the literal is the way it should be translated? -- this last is a question about language not about religion.
Peace Elena,
What do you mean why do I want to know the true translation? Either we accept the true meaning/intent of God or we reject it for a meaning that we prefer..whats difficult to understand there?
I Dont think its alright to cut someones hands off for theft,but if thats what Allah means then who am I to question Him,thats apart of submission,Submitting to the Will of Allah.Now if it doesnt mean that and its just a wrong translation then fine give me proof that it means something different,if the WORDS Allah chose literally meant a dog when it was revealed then we have no right to say its just metaphor and means a something else just because we today use it differently,we have to stay with the meanings they meant when Allah gave them to Muhammad,not what we changed them to mean today or 50 yrs after Muhammad.Example Arabs decided to call a pagan site Mecca,and said this was where sos and so happened,well does that change the truth as Allah said,did the events really happen where the Arabs claim or where Allah says they did... -
What do you mean why do I want to know the true translation? Either we accept the true meaning/intent of God or we reject it for a meaning that we prefer..whats difficult to understand there?
I was wondering if now that you have chosen a meaning/intent of God you will help to implement that punishment or any other action, not only believing that meaning. Feel free to not answer the question, of course.Now if it doesnt mean that and its just a wrong translation then fine give me proof that it means something different
I don't know the meaning. -
well, if they speak arabic then I'm sure they will admit that it means literally to cut off the hand, and if you look at my first comment here you will see that I used the word lietrally, therefore to answer your question, Why they did that?, the answer is simply they didn't translate it literally
that is what is going on
regardsAnd how do you translate it?
Regards,
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I was wondering if now that you have chosen a meaning/intent of God you will help to implement that punishment or any other action, not only believing that meaning. Feel free to not answer the question, of course.
Now if it doesnt mean that and its just a wrong translation then fine give me proof that it means something different
I don't know the meaning.Peace Sister Elena,
Hmm well since I am not the Law,No I would not be inclined to enforce it personally,I believe that should be left to the right officials,but only after the theft is proven as fact but if the person is truly remorseful and repents then they should be forgiven..But I do think that if they commit theft a second time then the law should be inforced after the proper guidelines are done.
If I am proven wrong in my belief I WILL submit to the truth.When you find out the TRUE Meaning,let me know..
Peace
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Hmm well since I am not the Law,No I would not be inclined to enforce it personally,I believe that should be left to the right officials,but only after the theft is proven as fact but if the person is truly remorseful and repents then they should be forgiven..But I do think that if they commit theft a second time then the law should be inforced after the proper guidelines are done.
exactly .
salam. -
well, if they speak arabic then I'm sure they will admit that it means literally to cut off the hand, and if you look at my first comment here you will see that I used the word lietrally, therefore to answer your question, Why they did that?, the answer is simply they didn't translate it literally
that is what is going on
regardsAnd how do you translate it?
Regards,
I take most of the Quran literally, this way I will certainly avoide conjectures
I will translate it like this, to cut off the hand
regards
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I take most of the Quran literally, this way I will certainly avoide conjectures
I will translate it like this, to cut off the hand
regards
By taking languages literally, one loses a great deal of its actual meaning and this applies to all languages.
Why is it that you take the Koranic arabic for an exception?
I say you rather misunderstand even more as you tend to translate literally. -
salaam all
Quote
538
Khalifa
The thief, male or female, you shall mark their hands as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from GOD. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
Yusuf Ali
As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands a punishment by way of example, from God, for their crime and God is Exalted in power.
Pickthal
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Shakir
And (as for) the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as a punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Sher Ali
And as for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut of their hands in retribution of their offence as an exemplary punishment from Allah. And Allah is Mighty, Wise.
"Progressive Muslims"
The male thief, and the female thief, you shall confiscate their belongings as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Almighty, Wise.As someone who knowa 0 arabic the above is very confusing. Surely the words for cut, mark and confiscate must be very different. If it is the case(big assumption on my part) then surely the translation must reflect the literal translation and not the one which sounds comfortable in the 21st century. Some input from arabic speakers who disagree with Ahmed would be helpful. Although so far no one has given any logical explanation for mark or confiscate.
regards -
Although so far no one has given any logical explanation for mark or confiscate.
Are you sure?
This gets repeated a lot, but here it is again please use the search function at the top.
To Layth/Zenje cant we have this in big/clear writing somewhere on the forum page?
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well, if they speak arabic then I'm sure they will admit that it means literally to cut off the hand, and if you look at my first comment here you will see that I used the word lietrally, therefore to answer your question, Why they did that?, the answer is simply they didn't translate it literally
that is what is going on
regardsAnd how do you translate it?
Regards,
I take most of the Quran literally, this way I will certainly avoide conjectures
I will translate it like this, to cut off the hand
regards
So you can go from Cut Off to Confiscate. So the CLEAR ARABIC is quite flexible isn't it? wink
I wonder if you can go in the Reverse? Like take Confiscate and turn into Cut off?
Regards,
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Peace JHamza
I do think that if they commit theft a second time then the law should be inforced after the proper guidelines are done.
What are those guidelines?Peace Elena,
Im no authority,so some one with better knowledge of the Quranic views of handling these things would be better in answering this..But it would have to be taken from Quran... -
Arabic words that are translated as Hand
Now which is the one that is translated hands in the verse
The thief, male or female, you shall cut off their hands as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from GOD. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.a share in an action; active support
, , , , ,
If its the first ones then it would be telling us to share in the action of their punishment or show active support of their theivery or punishment.a signature; signing
I dont see how its this.
control , management , custody
, , ,
Dont see it being this one either..Is it?the end part of the human arm beyond the wrist , including the fingers and thumb
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Hands mean hands..Cut
cut adjective severed; split; broken
, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,cut noun act of cutting , stroke with a sowrd , etc; result of such a stroke; opening made by a knife , etc
, ,cut verb to make an opening , incision; separate; remove from something larger; divide or separate into two
, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,If the word thats been translated as cut off comes from the adj,then it means severed,split or broken..not mark or confiscate.
If it comes from the noun or verb then it means to cut open,or slice..or could mean to cut into or remove it completely. -
Peace
Peace JHamza
I do think that if they commit theft a second time then the law should be inforced after the proper guidelines are done.
What are those guidelines?Peace Elena,
Im no authority,so some one with better knowledge of the Quranic views of handling these things would be better in answering this..But it would have to be taken from Quran...I think the quran doesn't give any guideline or instructions about how that punishment has to be done, if after the second time the thief steals as you say, or the first time or the third, if one hand, in the two hands, if above or below ops the wrist, etc. If there are no guidelines, will you continue thinking "if they commit theft a second time then the law should be inforced after the proper guidelines are done"?
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Peace AhmedBahgat
I will translate it like this, to cut off the hand
in December, in another thread http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4628&highlight=thief you were against 'cut off' as the correct translation. What made you to change your mind?
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Peace
I think the quran doesn't give any guideline or instructions about how that punishment has to be done, if after the second time the thief steals as you say, or the first time or the third, if one hand, in the two hands, if above or below oops the wrist, etc. If there are no guidelines, will you continue thinking "if they commit theft a second time then the law should be inforced after the proper guidelines are done"?
Peace Elena,
Well I am not aware of every surah at the time that discuss' the exact guidelines like I mentioned above...but the next verse says538But if the thief repents after his crime, and amends his conduct, God turneth to him in forgiveness; for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
So there is atleast one time we should forgive the crime of theft if the theif seems to be repentent,but obviously if the theif is warned of the punishment,and they go out a steal again then they were not truly repentent....
Now if the word for hand was ,
the end part of the human arm beyond the wrist , including the fingers and thumb,then thats what it means..
And if the word in 538 is the verb form of the word cut then it means
verb to make an opening , incision; separate; remove from something larger; divide or separate into two.
Which could mean to make an incision,and seperate/remove it from the arm...If it comes from the adjective then it means severed; split; broken...severed means almost all the way off..not sure how this process would be done..
If its the noun then it meansact of cutting , stroke with a sowrd , etc; result of such a stroke; opening made by a knife , etc...therefore it would be only a cut on the hands,not a literal cutting off of the hand..
Thats what I m trying to find out is which form is the word for cut in the Arabic..I will stand by the correct form and meaning,no matter what my cultural society accepts or what I think it should mean..
True Quran Meaning,and Submission to the Will of GOD.
