How Did it Come to This? (Part 2)
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Peace bro Ayman,
I think that both can be used and you can use "imaginaion" just as well as "fantasy". I used fantasy because its verb "fantasize" has some overlap with the verb "desire". Humans tend to fantasize about what they desire.
Yes, I think I shall need to go through every occurence and check how it fits...sometimes I think it might just be referring to something that is around the 'creative'/imaginary aspect.
The word "ma3shar"/consorts implies that the fantasies and the humans are linked together. This is in line with other passages that talk about the "jinn" being "qarin"/one linked to humans.
An interesting question would be, what if the human is without the fantasy? Can they pass?
I do think that there is absolutely a link there, thats what I always got during the study of this particular subject. Hmm, can a human be without fantasy/imagination? We are so used to relying on that in everyday life, I know I'm a dreamer but then creativity could be different from inspiration?!? Creativity would rely on both the human and imagination while inspiration would be that jolt out of the blue that ties it all in...I think this might lead us to new uncharted space, it is food for thought.
From my understanding of the great reading, yes they do have feelings.
I agree, I do think they are seperate in that sense.
In 3665, we are told that our hands and legs will testify on us. In this passage, like our fantasies, our hands and legs seem to be part of us and at the same time separate. We know that humans get pleasure from fantasizing about things such as wealth, power and lust. So perhaps the pleasure is two way.
I doubt that our hands feel differently about us and hate what we do? I understand the verse though and agree. Thoughts/imagination are a different thing I think. They come and go, sometimes when we silence ourselves enough and think, there is just us. Other times, there are these thoughts that are present buzzing and through all of it, yet we still know what is us. That leads me to think thoughts/imagination/fantasies are seperate yet a part.
I think that perhaps we need to look at it in the same way we look at everything. Take for example our hands, they are in turn made of cells that are made of molecules and those are made of atoms that are made of subatomic particles (electrons, protons, neutrons) and so on. Are the electrons seperate from us or part of us? They are both.
Definitely.
I think that you are asking the right questions and thinking along the right direction for answers. I think that everyone who wrote about this subject was close to the answer but for some reason couldn't see it. It is like when one has something right in front of them and they can't see it (I know because I was there myself).
Indeed, that is true. To some extent I have always felt that they operate on a person through his mind. Some explanations had a hard time fitting though and this seems quite promising.
The idea about "thoughts" is close to the findings here. But even ideas such as leaders and the sectarian idea of ghosts. Think about it, leaders are people who have grandiose visions (i.e., fantasies). Similarly, ghosts and the such are the imagined products of our own fantasies. Interestingly, so-called haunted houses are mostly old houses that are made of stone. Friction between stones produces electromagnetic energy and thus old stone houses give higher than normal readings on magnetometers. To varying degrees, this electromagnetic energy seems to induce a strong feeling of a presence, disorientation, and perceptual irregularities in some individuals. It is as if their imagination plays tricks on them.
Exactly. Ghosts and jinn were always intermingled. I remember reading about the occult and especially these 'perceptions' that people had about certain areas and came to the conclusion that it's all in the mind, also of course depending on triggers in the environment.
So far, only the meaning of fantasy/imagination fits and best links the ideas in the great reading to all the things that we can empirically verify.
As I said in my conclusion, there are so many new doors that this understanding opens, for example this has significant impact on our understanding of heaven and hell and so many other concepts.
I agree, and will get right on the research aspect of it, as I think it is a very interesting insight. I will be sending you my questions/comments as always
Best regards,
Nadia -
Peace sister Nadia,
I agree, and will get right on the research aspect of it, as I think it is a very interesting insight. I will be sending you my questions/comments as always
Great, I look forward to your questions/comments.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace ayman, all
How can we tie the findings of your article with words like ("ins", "jinn") and ("insane", "jann")?
I think that "ins" is the plural of "insane", and "jinn" plural of "jann".
While writing this post, it occured to me the thought of "ins" and "insane" could come from the root "nassaa" or "nassia" which translate as "to forget", but I should verify this. Until now, I was thinking that it comes from the root "aanassa" which translate as "to socialize".
Peace upon you brother
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Peace be upon you Brother Ayman!
How did I miss this one!!
Fantastic as always brother. I have only read it once, but I am sure you already knew i would enjoy this article. There are some things that I will comment on that I think will clarify things even further, but I need some time on this one. I browsed through the responses and I wanted to agree with Darcus that this understanding shed PLENTY of light on salaat.
Now that brother Ayman has fantastically pulled all the verses together, something he does so well, the clarity will come as a result of proper orientation.
I will have much to add once I go over the article and responses again tonight.
Ayman, thank you greatly for the patience you exert to be able to take the time to put everything together the way you do.
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ayman wrote...
I will try to improve my understanding of the great reading and the universe, except if The God wills and perhaps my Lord guides me to what is nearer in rationality. Please verify all information within for yourself as commanded in 1736, and remember that simply "none" is the forethoughtful answer to 456. If The God willed, the outcome of this article will be beneficial.much of what u have written is based on ur assumptions, which u have not proved in the entire length of the article, except by making some more assumptions! moreover, instead of establishing a thing and then concluding u have concluded and then tried to establish ur point! -)
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peace be upon you
idolfree The article awoke something inside concerning the salaat issue. I have recently had much confusion regarding salaat and whether or not I am correct in my own understanding. However, the pieces fit together nicely and it feels right. I know it is not the negative satanic influence whispering this - but the positive. It also leads me to a renewed awareness of what I am doing, in the context of polarity - negative to positive 'emotions' fuelled by 'fantasy'. It helps to control fear of the irrational and strengthens love. I sound like I am babbling, its because I am giving myself free-reign here. Something that feels natural to do.
thegod a very short sharp reply like yours needs more explanation. Please show me what you are thinking so that I can understand what you mean by the assumptions which were made throughout the article. I dont see them as clear assumptions - maybe I am wrong. Do go on.
Peace
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Peace brother,
How can we tie the findings of your article with words like ("ins", "jinn") and ("insane", "jann")?
I think that "ins" is the plural of "insane", and "jinn" plural of "jann".
While writing this post, it occured to me the thought of "ins" and "insane" could come from the root "nassaa" or "nassia" which translate as "to forget", but I should verify this. Until now, I was thinking that it comes from the root "aanassa" which translate as "to socialize".
The root of "INS" is "AaNaS", which indeed means "socialize". So I don't think that it has to do with "forget".
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace brother Ayman
In regards to the 'salat' issue, it is more a personal understanding. I cannot provide clear evidence from the quran yet, but will do so after I have completed my research. My thinking lies along the following lines
For me salat is a two pronged thing - physical and non-physical. The good thing with the small details of the quran regarding what it is, is that it can fluctuate between the two as the needs of the individual dictate. The best point would be to find the middle road - the median point of the two, and this cannot be prescribed because it depends upon the individual. Many people argue here that it cannot be physical. I disagree with the phrase 'cannot', as this implies that the pinnacle of understanding regarding this has been achieved for all humanity - uncertainty is the best policy. It is certainty that leads to sects forming.
The way in which you describe the 'fantasy' and it's role in our lives sounds about right, because by keeping these 'fantasies' in check and maintaining the balance between negative and positive leads to a remembrance of Allah. It works for me, as it helps me to achieve this remembrance. It has awoken the thing inside so that I open my eyes and then open them again. Each layer of conciousness can impact the next, so in a way it 'reprograms' the method in which I perceive reality, my part in it and how I need to progress.
I may be rambling again but this is also how I see one of my 'fantasy's working through me. I tend to type more or less what I think. (Im a fast typer by the way - so no comments on my speed of thought!)
When my research is complete and I can collate it together into something readable, I will post it on the forum. That is if it does make sense.
peace out
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Salaamun alaikum Ayman, all,
A fantasy is clearly a thought and not a being. In my understanding "jinn" could mean "fantastic/hidden beings" or "fanciful/hidden beings" rather than "fantasies", as its usage in the great reading indicates a "being" rather than a "thought". For example
37158 And they invented a kinship between Him and the Jinn. But the Jinn know that they will be gathered.
Here Jinn appears to be "beings" rather than "thoughts". How can a "fantasy" know that it will be gathered ?
5156 I did not create the Jinn and the humans except to serve Me.
How can a "fantasy" serve The God ? Here Jinn and humans are used in the same context as "beings" rather than "thoughts" with the ability to serve.
2717 And Solomon's soldiers were gathered, comprising of humans and Jinn and birds, for they were to be spread out.
How can "fantasies" be soldiers ? The context clearly indicates they are "beings" rather than "thoughts".
3412 And for Solomon the wind was given, traveling one month coming and one month going, and We caused a spring of tar to flow for him. And from among the Jinn are those that worked for him by his Lord's leave; and any one of them who turns from Our commands, We shall cause him to taste the retribution of the Fire.
3413 They made for him what he desired of enclosures, and statues, and pools of deep reservoirs, and heavy pots. "O family of David, work to show thanks." Only a few of My servants are appreciative.
3414 Then, when We decreed death for him, nothing informed them of his death until a worm kept eating from his staff, so when he fell down, the Jinn realised that if they had known the unseen, they would not have remained in the humiliating retribution.How can "fantasies" work ? (3412). How can fantasies make statues and pots ? (3413). How can fantasies realize ? (3414)
2739 A powerful being from among the Jinn said "I will bring it to you before you rise from your station. For I am strong and trustworthy."
How can a "fantasy" talk ?
4125 And We assigned to them companions who adorned their present and past actions. Thus, the retribution has been deserved by them the same as previous nations of Jinn and humans; all of them were losers.
How can there be a nation of "fantasies" ? Jinn here is used in the same context as humans being nations, clearly indicating "beings" rather than "thoughts".
2710 "And throw down your staff." So when he saw it shake as if it were a Jinn, he ran away and would not turn back. "O Moses, do not fear, for My messengers shall have no fear from Me."
How can one compare a physical object to a "fantasy" ?
5533 O tribes of Jinn and humans, if you can penetrate the outer limits of the heavens and the Earth, then go ahead and penetrate. You will not penetrate without authority.
How can there be a tribe of "fantasies" ? Here again humans and Jinn have the same context of "beings".
6128 And the Day We gather them all "O tribes of Jinn, you have managed to take many humans." Their supporters from the humans said "Our Lord, we have indeed enjoyed one another, and we have reached our destiny to which You delayed us." He said "The Fire is your dwelling, in it you shall abide eternally, except as your Lord wishes." Your Lord is Wise, Knowledgeable.
How can fire be the dwelling of a "fantasy" ?
Electromagnetic waves are "hidden" but can now be detected by various technologies. Perhaps in the future when people will have the technology to detect the presence of Jinn, they will not be as fantastic/hidden any more !!
Peace,
Tanveer
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peace Tanveer,
maybe they are 'fanciful/hidden beings' of our imagination.
No one has any proof that these 'hidden beings' exist. And even if they do, what good does the quran do us by telling us about them? what do you learn from a story about these beings and some person living thousands of years ago?
what exactly is your understanding of jinn and those verses?Waleed
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Peace Waleed,
maybe they are 'fanciful/hidden beings' of our imagination.
It would be nice if you can give some evidence from Qur'aan to back up your opinions.
Imaginary beings/beings of our imagination do not have factual knowledge (3715, cannot serve The God (5156), are not actual soldiers (2117), don't work for Solomon and make statues and pots (3412-13), do not actually talk (2739), do not have nations and tribes (4125, 5533) and will not have fire as dwelling (612. If they are imaginary then humans must be imaginary too as humans have also been mentioned in similar context as jinn in the great reading !!
No one has any proof that these 'hidden beings' exist.
No one had any proof 1000 years ago about many universal/cosmic phenomenon; does not mean they do not exist (electromagnetic waves, black holes, subatomic particles etc.). For me The God's words are enough proof.
And even if they do, what good does the quran do us by telling us about them? what do you learn from a story about these beings and some person living thousands of years ago?
I would encourage you to read the Qur'aan and look up ALL the signs mentioning "jinn" and The God willing you will start to have an idea of why He is telling us about them and what we should learn from it. Then you can use your hearing, eyesight and mind and reason and logic to arrive at your own understanding under The God's guidance. Let me know what conclusions you arrive at after that entire process and please give some evidences from the great reading to back them up.
what exactly is your understanding of jinn and those verses?
I am still in the process of having an understanding about "jinn" according to the great reading and unfortunately do not have an EXACT understanding yet.
Peace,
Tanveer
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A fantasy is clearly a thought and not a being. In my understanding "jinn" could mean "fantastic/hidden beings" or "fanciful/hidden beings" rather than "fantasies", as its usage in the great reading indicates a "being" rather than a "thought". For example
I am also of the opinion that jinn are beings, human beings.
See
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4435
http//www.parvez-video.com/article_jinn.aspPeace
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Peace be upon you Tanveer,
A fantasy is clearly a thought and not a being.
Says who? I have come to learn and VERIFY that our thoughts are not part of "us". They work independent of "us", although we have the power to take control of them. Sometmes they come to us "out of the blue". If you sit back and just watch your thoughts, you will verify just like I did that we do not really orchestrate the thoughts that come into your sphere of awareness. Regarding the term "being", all of creation is but a manifestation of the ONE being, the SUPREME being. So thoughts are not who we are, so they are seperate from what we call "I".
In my understanding "jinn" could mean "fantastic/hidden beings" or "fanciful/hidden beings" rather than "fantasies", as its usage in the great reading indicates a "being" rather than a "thought". For example
37158 And they invented a kinship between Him and the Jinn. But the Jinn know that they will be gathered. Here Jinn appears to be "beings" rather than "thoughts". How can a "fantasy" know that it will be gathered ?
What we are dealing with here is the programming tool of the human called the imagination, or the visual intellect (as oppossed to the verbal intellect). However, I have no fully grasped this verse, so I cannot respond to this one.
5156 I did not create the Jinn and the humans except to serve Me.
How can a "fantasy" serve The God ? Here Jinn and humans are used in the same context as "beings" rather than "thoughts" with the ability to serve.
The visual images of the imaginaton are being personified in order to help us understand the process. We are not being informed of some alien life form that we can never verify.
2717 And Solomon's soldiers were gathered, comprising of humans and Jinn and birds, for they were to be spread out.
How can "fantasies" be soldiers ? The context clearly indicates they are "beings" rather than "thoughts".
If you think in terms of the imagination, then that might bring clarity to this for you. Your imaginstaion is one of your most powerful "weapons"!
3412 And for Solomon the wind was given, traveling one month coming and one month going, and We caused a spring of tar to flow for him. And from among the Jinn are those that worked for him by his Lord's leave; and any one of them who turns from Our commands, We shall cause him to taste the retribution of the Fire.
3413 They made for him what he desired of enclosures, and statues, and pools of deep reservoirs, and heavy pots. "O family of David, work to show thanks." Only a few of My servants are appreciative.
3414 Then, when We decreed death for him, nothing informed them of his death until a worm kept eating from his staff, so when he fell down, the Jinn realised that if they had known the unseen, they would not have remained in the humiliating retribution.How can "fantasies" work ? (3412). How can fantasies make statues and pots ? (3413). How can fantasies realize ? (3414)
You have got to take this out of the literal understanding and look a the metaphor.
2739 A powerful being from among the Jinn said "I will bring it to you before you rise from your station. For I am strong and trustworthy."
How can a "fantasy" talk ?
Same way you "talk" in your dreams at night The better question is how does one move a physical object at the speed of light?
4125 And We assigned to them companions who adorned their present and past actions. Thus, the retribution has been deserved by them the same as previous nations of Jinn and humans; all of them were losers.
How can there be a nation of "fantasies" ? Jinn here is used in the same context as humans being nations, clearly indicating "beings" rather than "thoughts".
Our imagination is connected to us. You are being to rigid with the story.
2710 "And throw down your staff." So when he saw it shake as if it were a Jinn, he ran away and would not turn back. "O Moses, do not fear, for My messengers shall have no fear from Me."
How can one compare a physical object to a "fantasy" ?
A mirage in the desert comes to mind.
5533 O tribes of Jinn and humans, if you can penetrate the outer limits of the heavens and the Earth, then go ahead and penetrate. You will not penetrate without authority.
How can there be a tribe of "fantasies" ? Here again humans and Jinn have the same context of "beings".
Thoughts are beings.
6128 And the Day We gather them all "O tribes of Jinn, you have managed to take many humans." Their supporters from the humans said "Our Lord, we have indeed enjoyed one another, and we have reached our destiny to which You delayed us." He said "The Fire is your dwelling, in it you shall abide eternally, except as your Lord wishes." Your Lord is Wise, Knowledgeable.
How can fire be the dwelling of a "fantasy" ?
Merily , merily, merily, merily, life is but a dream! Have you ever experienced that was so real that you didnt know you were sleep? Where you could even FEEL things? Was that real or imagined?
If you reflect on the dream world then it might shed some light on this topic for you.
Electromagnetic waves are "hidden" but can now be detected by various technologies. Perhaps in the future when people will have the technology to detect the presence of Jinn, they will not be as fantastic/hidden any more !!
So what guidance does "jinn" have for the past communities that are no longer here? They certainly had thier imagination.
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Peace be upon you JM,
I am also of the opinion that jinn are beings, human beings.
I can do nothing with your understanding but respect it, however where is the objective evidence of this?
Are humans capable of moving a chair at the speed of light?
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Are humans capable of moving a chair at the speed of light?
See http//www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=1976®ion=E1&CR=
Peace
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Peace be upon you JM,
I will refrain from responding on this thread so that we can focus on the article by Ayman and further that line of reasoning. I respect your understanding but do not agree. We can discuss it further in the jinn thread.
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Peace Tanveermd,
Firstly let me say that all of the understandings here on this thread are not that far apart. What you are saying about hidden beings is in a way true as far as other people's fantasies. Since you can't read their imagination, then they are in a way "hidden beings" as far as you are concerned and you can only see the creations of their fantasies. Thus, you can't see the imagination of an author but you can read his/her fiction book.
Similarly, JM's idea about them being human is not far from what I am saying, since the fantasy/imagination is inherently connected to the human.
A fantasy is clearly a thought and not a being. In my understanding "jinn" could mean "fantastic/hidden beings" or "fanciful/hidden beings" rather than "fantasies", as its usage in the great reading indicates a "being" rather than a "thought".
So tell us what those "fantastic/hidden beings" or "fanciful/hidden beings" are and how do they affect us? Fantasies are more real and measurable because one can measure and detect brainwaves made of electromagnetic energy (smokeless fire).
Moreover, we know that the increasing in rebellion "jinn" drive people to do wrong. You can look inside you for the answer for what makes you do wrong and the answer will never be "fantastic/hidden beings" or "fanciful/hidden beings" no more than it is ghosts. The fact is that when a thief steals, what drives him is his fantasy to be rich. Similarly, when an adulterer commits adultery, it is because he or she fantasizes about lusts. It is NEVER ghost-like "fantastic/hidden beings" or "fanciful/hidden beings" that makes you or anybody do wrong. Just look inside you.
For example
37158 And they invented a kinship between Him and the Jinn. But the Jinn know that they will be gathered.
Here Jinn appears to be "beings" rather than "thoughts". How can a "fantasy" know that it will be gathered ?Will everything in the heavens and the earth not be gathered (383)?
Don't you know that nothing from you will be hidden on the day of the account (691? When The God says "nothing", He means nothing, including your inner fantasy?
Do you doubt that everyone will see your deepest fantasy on the day of the account? So we should all be careful what we fantasize about.
5156 I did not create the Jinn and the humans except to serve Me.
How can a "fantasy" serve The God ? Here Jinn and humans are used in the same context as "beings" rather than "thoughts" with the ability to serve.Doesn't your fantasy/imagination serve The God when you combine it with the truth (knowledge) to imagine and invent something useful for humanity and creation?
On the other hand, aren't people just serving their own pleasures when they fantasize about lust, money, and power? In fact, such fantasies control them and drive them to do wrong.
2717 And Solomon's soldiers were gathered, comprising of humans and Jinn and birds, for they were to be spread out.
How can "fantasies" be soldiers ? The context clearly indicates they are "beings" rather than "thoughts".I would say that fantasies are better than any human soldiers when you discipline them. I can tell you that fundamentally the only difference between a Taliban soldier riding a donkey and a US pilot in a F-22 Raptor is that in the second case, the fantasies were enlisted with knowledge from aerodynamics, mechanics, electronics, etc. to invent the Raptor. So the Raptor is in fact the realization of the fantasy/imagination of the engineers and scientists who designed it.
You ask good questions but you forget to ask them to yourself. So please tell us how those ghostly "fantastic/hidden beings" can be soldiers?
3412 And for Solomon the wind was given, traveling one month coming and one month going, and We caused a spring of tar to flow for him. And from among the Jinn are those that worked for him by his Lord's leave; and any one of them who turns from Our commands, We shall cause him to taste the retribution of the Fire.
3413 They made for him what he desired of enclosures, and statues, and pools of deep reservoirs, and heavy pots. "O family of David, work to show thanks." Only a few of My servants are appreciative.
3414 Then, when We decreed death for him, nothing informed them of his death until a worm kept eating from his staff, so when he fell down, the Jinn realised that if they had known the unseen, they would not have remained in the humiliating retribution.
How can "fantasies" work ? (3412). How can fantasies make statues and pots ? (3413). How can fantasies realize ? (3414)How do you make a statue and pot? Don't you have to imagine it first? Whether we like it or not, our fantasy is fundamentally the one that makes it first. Also, if we use any tools to make it, those tools are the realization of the fantasy of the tool maker.
I never saw a statue suddenly appear out of thin air because it was built by "fantastic/hidden beings" or "fanciful/hidden beings". So tell us how the "fantastic/hidden beings" fit in 3412,13,14?
2739 A powerful being from among the Jinn said "I will bring it to you before you rise from your station. For I am strong and trustworthy."
How can a "fantasy" talk?A fantasy can talk in the same way that an ant, mountains, and your hands and legs can talk. In fact, if you read any fiction book, you are reading the talk of the fantasy of the author.
You forgot to ask about how a fantasy can bring something. Think about it, wouldn't it be nice if you were in Hawaii sitting on the beach right now? You can realize this fantasy by taking a vacation and buying a plane ticket. However, there is a problem because you don't have any vacation time left so you need to go there and get back in the same day. If you had the fantasies of engineers at NASA, Boeing and Airbus at your disposal, you will tell them about the problem and they imagine/fantasize a hypersonic low earth orbit personal VTOL air vehicle and its specs say "I can get you there and back before the day is over". Isn't that air vehicle the realization of the engineers' fantasy?
On the other hand, please tell us how the "fantastic/hidden beings" are able to tell you "I will take you to Hawaii"? Also, tell us how they would actually do it.
4125 And We assigned to them companions who adorned their present and past actions. Thus, the retribution has been deserved by them the same as previous nations of Jinn and humans; all of them were losers.
How can there be a nation of "fantasies" ? Jinn here is used in the same context as humans being nations, clearly indicating "beings" rather than "thoughts".Fantasies indeed multiply and present fantasies are descendants of previous fantasies. For example, the fantasy of "people getting their sins forgiven and returning as if they are newborn for going to Mecca and spinning seven times around a stone" is a descendant of the fantasy of Allat. We also know that the fantasy linked to a person "adorns his/her present and past actions". Thus, after returning from the so-called Hajj, the pilgrims think that by this action they bought a ticket to heaven.
On the other hand, please tell us what "fantastic/hidden beings" have to do with us?
2710 "And throw down your staff." So when he saw it shake as if it were a Jinn, he ran away and would not turn back. "O Moses, do not fear, for My messengers shall have no fear from Me."
How can one compare a physical object to a "fantasy" ?This passage actually confirms the meaning of "fantasy" because at that time the staff clearly didn't act like a physical object. Would a physical staff do such a thing? Clearly not! So it was as if Moses was imagining it.
On the other hand, please tell us what "fantastic/hidden beings" have to do with Moses' staff.
5533 O tribes of Jinn and humans, if you can penetrate the outer limits of the heavens and the Earth, then go ahead and penetrate. You will not penetrate without authority.
How can there be a tribe of "fantasies"? Here again humans and Jinn have the same context of "beings".The exact translation is not "tribes" it is "consorts". The word "3ashar" means to "constantly live with". So "ma3shar" means "living together" or "consorts". So 5533 is addressing humans and the fantasies that are consorts with them in the dual throughout the passage. Here is the meaning of the word from Classical Arabic Lexicons;
"ma3shar" Every group whose matter/affair is one.
6128 And the Day We gather them all "O tribes of Jinn, you have managed to take many humans." Their supporters from the humans said "Our Lord, we have indeed enjoyed one another, and we have reached our destiny to which You delayed us." He said "The Fire is your dwelling, in it you shall abide eternally, except as your Lord wishes." Your Lord is Wise, Knowledgeable.
How can fire be the dwelling of a "fantasy" ?The "fantasies" are the fuel of fire. So the fire is fueled by the imagination. It is the realization of the worst things imaginable.
Electromagnetic waves are "hidden" but can now be detected by various technologies. Perhaps in the future when people will have the technology to detect the presence of Jinn, they will not be as fantastic/hidden any more !!
So are you saying that all those passages about "jinn" are not relevant to you and don't provide you with any guidance. Do you think that those passages are meant to confuse us "technologically backward" people and that they are only meant as guidance for future people? I believe that all of the great reading is meant for all people through out the ages, including you and me.
As I said at the beginning, the answer is inside you.
I would encourage you to read the Qur'aan and look up ALL the signs mentioning "jinn" and The God willing you will start to have an idea of why He is telling us about them and what we should learn from it. Then you can use your hearing, eyesight and mind and reason and logic to arrive at your own understanding under The God's guidance. Let me know what conclusions you arrive at after that entire process and please give some evidences from the great reading to back them up.
This is good advice. However, you shouldn't dismiss anything and propose "fantastic/hidden beings" or "fanciful/hidden beings" without answering those same questions first. So please tell us why The God is telling us about "fantastic/hidden beings" and what we should learn from it.
I can tell you that The God is telling us about the fantasies because most people (including you judging from your questions above) believe that their fantasy will not be gathered and made apparent on the day of the account.
From The Creator's point of view, the fantasies are just another of His creations. We certainly didn't create our ability to have imagination, He did. So for all intents and purposes it is a creature of The God.
Moreover, our fantasy influence on us is fundamentally why we do wrong. Look inside you and you will see.
So to answer your question about what we should learn from it, we should learn to control our fantasy and make it obey The God and not let it control us and become exceeding in rebellion. If we do this, then this will have a direct impact on our lives here our final outcome in the ending.
I am still in the process of having an understanding about "jinn" according to the great reading and unfortunately do not have an EXACT understanding yet.
Only The God has an EXACT understanding of everything. If you wait for an EXACT understanding then you will wait for a long time for something that will never come. Also, what if the EXACT understanding is not exactly EXACT? People can be blocked from improving their understanding when they think they have an EXACT understanding. What we should strive for is a BETTER understanding. Right now, the understanding of "jinn" being fantasies is definitely better than ghostly "fantastic/hidden beings" or "fanciful/hidden beings".
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace brother Kyle,
"Thoughts" is a more encompassing term than imagination. Remember that The God taught the human all the names and he was able to answer questions (which involves thinking) before the controllers (including the one from the "jinn"/imagination) were asked to obey him. So the human already had knowledge and the ability to think to answer questions BEFORE the fantasy was to obey him. It is those thoughts that we should use to control the fantasy and make it obey us so we can both serve The God.
Peace,
Ayman
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This passage actually confirms the meaning of "fantasy" because at that time the staff clearly didn't act like a physical object. Would a physical staff do such a thing? Clearly not! So it was as if Moses was imagining it.
this is an old divination trick used by magicians and "prophets" alike throughout the world. If you pull very fast in each end of certain snakes they become stiff. Their muscles lock up, so they become like a staff. The trick then is to throw the snake to the ground so it start to move again. LO and behold, magick...well not really, but back in the days everybody brought it!.
I disagree to jinn being fantasy alone, but it may be part the explanation when you look at it as a metaphor. Like MQ i have the oppinion that the book has 2 levels of understanding. Physical beings who look like us but who are further developed is in no way unlikely.