Is the quran preserved or the message?
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Truth was right -i think,
Inna nahnu nazzalna alththikrawa-inna lahu lahafithoona
We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).It isn't the quran that is/was preserved but the message
The word is Alzikr look at all the ayah's it accurs in
Falamma wadaAAat-ha qalatrabbi innee wadaAAtuha ontha waAllahuaAAlamu bima wadaAAat walaysa alththakarukaalontha wa-innee sammaytuha maryamawa-innee oAAeethuha bika wathurriyyatahamina alshshaytani alrrajeemi
When she was delivered, she said "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!"- and Allah knew best what she brought forth- "And no wise is the male Like the female. I have named her Mary, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected."
2.
Waqaloo ya ayyuha allatheenuzzila AAalayhi alththikru innaka lamajnoonun
They say "O thou to whom the Message is being revealed! truly thou art mad (or possessed)!
3.
Inna nahnu nazzalna alththikrawa-inna lahu lahafithoona
We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
4.
Wama arsalna min qablika illarijalan noohee ilayhim fais-aloo ahla alththikriin kuntum la taAAlamoona
And before thee also the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.
5.
Bialbayyinati waalzzuburiwaanzalna ilayka alththikra litubayyina lilnnasima nuzzila ilayhim walaAAallahum yatafakkaroona
(We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
6.
Wama arsalna qablaka illarijalan noohee ilayhim fais-aloo ahla alththikriin kuntum la taAAlamoona
Before thee, also, the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration If ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.
7.
Walaqad katabna fee alzzaboorimin baAAdi alththikri anna al-arda yarithuhaAAibadiya alssalihoona
Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses) My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."
8.
Qaloo subhanaka ma kanayanbaghee lana an nattakhitha min doonika min awliyaawalakin mattaAAtahum waabaahum hattanasoo alththikra wakanoo qawman booran
They will say "Glory to Thee! not meet was it for us that we should take for protectors others besides Thee But Thou didst bestow, on them and their fathers, good things (in life), until they forgot the Message for they were a people (worthless and) lost."
9.
Laqad adallanee AAani alththikribaAAda ith jaanee wakana alshshaytanulil-insani khathoolan
"He did lead me astray from the Message (of Allah) after it had come to me! Ah! the Evil One is but a traitor to man!"
10.
Innama tunthiru mani ittabaAAaalththikra wakhashiya alrrahmanabialghaybi fabashshirhu bimaghfiratin waajrin kareemin
Thou canst but admonish such a one as follows the Message and fears the (Lord) Most Gracious, unseen give such a one, therefore, good tidings, of Forgiveness and a Reward most generous.
11.
Sad waalqur-ani theealththikri
Sad By the Qur'an, Full of Admonition (This is the Truth).
12.
Aonzila AAalayhi alththikru minbaynina bal hum fee shakkin min thikree bal lammayathooqoo AAathabi
"What! has the Message been sent to him - (Of all persons) among us?"...but they are in doubt concerning My (Own) Message! Nay, they have not yet tasted My Punishment!
13.
Afanadribu AAankumu alththikrasafhan an kuntum qawman musrifeena
Shall We then take away the Message from you and repel (you), for that ye are a people transgressing beyond bounds?
14.
Alakumu alththakaru walahual-ontha
What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?
15.
Waannahu khalaqa alzzawjayni alththakarawaal-ontha
That He did create in pairs,- male and female,
16.
Aolqiya alththikru AAalayhimin baynina bal huwa kaththabun ashirun
"Is it that the Message is sent to him, of all people amongst us? Nay, he is a liar, an insolent one!"
17.
Wa-in yakadu allatheenakafaroo layuzliqoonaka bi-absarihim lamma samiAAooalththikra wayaqooloona innahu lamajnoonun
And the Unbelievers would almost trip thee up with their eyes when they hear the Message; and they say "Surely he is possessed!"
18.
FajaAAala minhu alzzawjayni alththakarawaal-ontha
And of him He made two sexes, male and female.
19.
Wama khalaqa alththakarawaal-ontha
By (the mystery of) the creation of male and female;-Salaams.
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Salaamun alaikum,
Some questions for you
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Is all of az-zikr vital for humanity? If not, can you please pin-point which is more important and which is less?
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How do you acquire information from az-zikr?
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If you acquire information of az-zikr from al-quraan, can all of az-zikr be transmitted to you if bits from al-quraan are missing and bits have been added?
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38/1 tells us that 'al-quraan is dhi az-zikr'. Dhi here indicates a posession of something. If al-quraan (not fariqan min al-quraan but the entire al-quraan) posesses az-zikr, can any part of it be compromised if az-zikr is protected.
thanks.
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Hi Br. mquran,
You said
?2. How do you acquire information from az-zikr??
Information is by inspiration to people, to some more then others.
You said
?3. If you acquire information of az-zikr from al-quraan, can all of az-zikr be transmitted to you if bits from al-quraan are missing and bits have been added??
If bits are removed or added does it matter as Allah has taken full responsibility to safeguard the al-zikr /the inspiration irrespect.
You said
?. 38/1 tells us that 'al-quraan is dhi az-zikr'. Dhi here indicates a posession of something. If al-quraan (not fariqan min al-quraan but the entire al-quraan) posesses az-zikr, can any part of it be compromised if az-zikr is protected.?
A call/ proclamation/ conveyance/ recital/ reading containing admonititons will continue for always and will guard it/take care of it the Allmighty ? no one can stop Him inspiring humans and no they don?t need to be Arabs.
Can anyone stop Him?
Remember the quran wasn?t a book as such but a conveyance/call a series of proclamations admonishing people.
I believe.
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SimpleInformation is by inspiration to people, to some more then others.
I see. Have you recieved or met anyone who has recievd inspiration. If so, how is this person to prove that he was inspired?
If bits are removed or added does it matter as Allah has taken full responsibility to safeguard the al-zikr /the inspiration irrespect.
Ok. So lets say you tell people 'i was inspired to believe that humans must pray like the sunnis'. When ppl ask you for proof, what will be your answer ? That the relevant parts of al-quraan required to prove the ritual has been lost?
The question, which you didn't respond to was if al-quraan (note that this isnt a portion of al-quraan but al-quraan) posesses az-zikr, it means that once you lose a part of al-quraanl, you will lose a part of az-zikr.
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Hi Br. Ayman,
Here it is
1.Inna allatheena kafaroo bialththikrilamma jaahum wa-innahu lakitabun AAazeezun
Those who reject the Message when it comes to them (are not hidden from Us). And indeed it is a Book of exalted power.
Here the word is slightly different it is ?bialthikri? thats why it is not on the previouse list.
But I think the word here which is being misunderstood is
According to lanes 2590.
?kitabun? = decree/ revelation/ judgment/scripture/book.
No message has ever been in the form of a book from the Allmighty it has always been other ?revelation/judgment.
God Bless all.
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Hi mquran,
You said
?See. Have you received or met anyone who has received inspiration. If so, how is this person to prove that he was inspired??
Every individual can be inspired depends how closely you are to listning/feelling/seeing the inspirations.
If the inspiration benefits even as much as a particle of sand or something ? it?s usually inspired, I believe.
You said
?
Ok. So let?s say you tell people 'I was inspired to believe that humans must pray like the Sunnis'. When ppl ask you for proof, what will be your answer? That the relevant parts of al-quraan required to prove the ritual has been lost??But Br. Where is the benefit?see answer one.
You said
The question, which you didn't respond to, was if al-quraan (note that this isn?t a portion of al-quraan but al-quraan) posesses az-zikr, it means that once you lose a part of al-quraanl, you will lose a part of az-zikr.?You may lose a part of the message preserved in the quranic book
But the message will always be with you me as Allah will inspire it to others and thus admonish us.God Bless all.
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Every individual can be inspired depends how closely you are to listning/feelling/seeing the inspirations.
If the inspiration benefits even as much as a particle of sand or something ? it?s usually inspired, I believe.
Ok, so there's no textual clarification. Bush and Blair both claim that God guided them to war upon Saddam Hussain. They could say that their actions has brought benefit but I think much of the world would disagree. This is where a clarification comes in. Al-quraan contains ayaatun bayyinah (10/15), clarifying signs.
But Br. Where is the benefit?see answer one.
The benefit comes when you can verify what people say according to Allah's value system. The ritual salaat cannot be found in al-quraan but if one claims that part of al-quraan is missing, then one can render the matter ambiguous.
Allah preserving az-zikr here doesn't mean he didn't preserve al-quraan. Rather the preservation of al=quraan AND its method of conveying meaning has been preserved.
You may lose a part of the message preserved in the quranic book
But the message will always be with you me as Allah will inspire it to others and thus admonish us.I see. How do you know it wasn't ash-shaitaan whispering to you instead of Allah?
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Hi mquran,
You said
?Ok, so there's no textual clarification. Bush and Blair both claim that God guided them to war upon Saddam Hussain. They could say that their actions has brought benefit but I think much of the world would disagree. This is where a clarification comes in. Al-quraan contains ayaatun bayyinah (10/15), clarifying signs.?
This is the reason we choose committees or members of parliament ?competent men who can make better decisions on inspirations to see / work out the benefits , we do Sali that is discuss.
And we don?t let the people who were benefiting from inaction decide .
And when clear decisions are told to them they do not agree with them.
But when Our Clear Signs are rehearsed unto them, those who rest not their hope on their meeting with Us, Say "Bring us a reading other than this, or change this," Say "It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it I follow naught but what is revealed unto me if I were to disobey my Lord, I should myself fear the penalty of a Great Day (to come)
You said
?The benefit comes when you can verify what people say according to Allah's value system. The ritual salaat cannot be found in al-quraan but if one claims that part of al-quraan is missing, then one can render the matter ambiguous.?All people know/see the benefits and know Allah?s value system ?and it is only the wicked or the idol worshippers who don?t agree.Irrespective of whether part is missing or is an addition Allah?s system none can stop but the wicked or the idollarors will always try to.
You said
?Allah preserving az-zikr here doesn't mean he didn't preserve al-quraan. Rather the preservation of al=quraan AND its method of conveying meaning has been preserved.?
I think our difference here is you say the quran is the preserved thing ; I as truth said it is the message and if people choose to write their own qurans Allah will always send the orders by inspiring others.
You said
?I see. How do you know it wasn't ash-shaitaan whispering to you instead of Allah??
That is the reason for Sali , discussions to verify the truth of it with the inspiration of others competent .
Gods Blessings on all.
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?I see. How do you know it wasn't ash-shaitaan whispering to you instead of Allah??
I would like to add some thougts I have had about this subject. The whispers are the media. Subliminal programming, programmed music, we even call the tv shows....programs. What is a program then?
- To include or schedule in a program program a new musical composition.
- To design a program for; schedule the activities of.
- To provide (a machine) with a set of coded working instructions.
- To train to perform automatically in a desired way, as if programming a machine programmed the children to use perfect table manners.
- To prepare an instructional sequence for (material to be taught) in programmed instruction.
now why would our masters, call our "entertainment" that we currently spend on average 6 hours a day in front ...programs? Are they mocking us I wonder?
And when you start to wonder about things like that. You start to realise that you have been had. suddenly you hear the "whispers" as booming voices, and you see darkness and corruption everywhere, and you start to panic.
Now you start o listen to God, thats how scared you become. Now you are ready to get inspiration directly, the message that was preserved as promised. And untill you understand excactly what i mean with the above said, This whole discission is void, because you just dont get it brother untill you let go of your idol (a mental construct in your head). The Quran was the key to my journey,but i understand now that it is not the answer itself. "You recite it, we explain it" indeed.
peace