Some Of You Don't believe in "Allahu Akbar"?
-
Peace marie. Who explains the reading to us? If its god,then have we ever made a mistake in interpreting the reading? If god explains the reading how come humans make mistakes when reading it? I will refer you back to ahmedbhaghats and my posts to avoid repeating what i have already written. Ps;you stated the reading is the only criterion,what about god?The quran does not equal god. And doesnt the reading tell us to use our mind to think,and that there are signs outside the reading?
Peace. -
Peace Ahmed,
please note that the order "Kabbar" is identical to the Order "Sabbah" both can only be done by words
You may be interested by this thread about tasbeeh
Thank you mary, I will look into it in my earliest opportunity as i'm just about going to bed, I will try to also compare it with my study regarding this important word
peace and good night
-
peace ab,take it easy and thanks for your words. Peace.
-
-
Peace marie and all. May we all be humble,respectful,understanding,open-minded and tolerant in our quest for truths. Take it easy. peace.
-
Peace all
it is clear in the arabic language that the two words "Kabir" and "Akbar" are two different words, they share the same root though
Kabir is a noun and can be used on its own to describe something, the Quran used it many times to describe many different things like
-
salat 245
-
following the prophet 2143
-
fighting 2217
-
sin 2219
-
reward 179
-
mistake 1731
-
favour 1787
curse 3368
-
a deed 5453
-
an old man 2823
.
.
.
.
.
etcand Allah 3423 and many more
this is how the word is commonly used in the Quran
the word Akbar was also used many times in the Quran, in most cases if not all it compares two things like 2217, 2219
as we can see that many things shared the same word Kabir with Allah in the Quran, so to say Allah Akbar, i.e He is greater, and by eliminating the compared party it will give an infinite meaning that Allah is greater "Akbar" than any thing that is kabir
while the two words "Allah Akbar" were not specifically used in the Quran as such, they were mentioned next to each other in two locations, and can constitute a complete sentence, and because the history records told us numerous times that the prophet said as such even, in his salat, then why not following it?
very strange indeed, the word is gloryfing Allah by all means, has no shirk neither kufr and sounds like a great and genuine teaching by the prophet, it does not sound like a foriegn injection to his sayings and I chose to follow it, plain and simple
there are many other gloryfying words that were not mentiond in the Quran, would that mean I can't use it to glorify Allah?, of course I can, because it does not make sense if I'm not allowed to use or it is a sin to use it
peace to all
-
-
Peace be upon you,
We should be more concerned with ACTING like The God is Greater/Greatest, rather than "buttering up" some object on the sky.
-
Peace idolfree and all. Agreed.We can act by implementing what we learn from god.(the all.) The 'all' is always bigger than any constituent part of it.
Peace all. -
Peace be upon you,
We should be more concerned with ACTING like The God is Greater/Greatest, rather than "buttering up" some object on the sky.
If i didnt absolutely abhor the word amen....i would say...
http//www.malaco.com/Images/Items/Full/1740/image.default.png
LEMME HEAR YA SAY AAAAAAAMEN! D
Peace
-
Peace all,
771 He said "An affliction and wrath shall befall you from your Lord. Do you argue with me over names which you and your fathers have created with no authority being sent down by God? Wait then, and I will wait with you."
1241 "What you serve besides Him are nothing but names which you have created you and your fathers, God did not send down any authority for such. The judgment is for none but God.
From these verses it follows that we cannot use a name for The God that He has not sent down any authority for. The God has told us His names in the qur'aan and only those names are the ones authorized by The God. So how can we call Him by a name that He has not authorized for himself ?
Brother Ahmed, would you like to be called Danish ? ) No, because you did not authorize that name for yourself.
The God is INCOMPARABLY GREAT. Using the name Akbar for The God meaning "greater" automatically implies that we are comparing The God to a SIMILAR being, which becomes shirk. The God is INCOMPARABLE. We can say that one object is greater than another when both objects are of the same essence or are similar. For example we can say that the number 10 is greater than the number 5 but we cannot say that an orange is greater than an apple, or the color red is greater than the color blue.
7180 And to God belong THE BEAUTIFUL NAMES, so call Him by THEM; and ignore those who blaspheme in His names. They will be punished for what they used to do.
THEM does not include "AKBAR" but includes "AL-KABEER". By calling The God by a name that He has not authorized for Himself, we are blaspheming in His names.
How do we know THE BEAUTIFUL NAMES of The God ? Through the qur'aan, of course ! Those are the names AUTHORIZED BY THE GOD for Himself by CLEARLY mentioning them in the qur'aan for Himself.
We can KABBAR/magnify The God by saying Allahu Al-Kabeer, as Al-Kabeer is a name authorized by The God.
I will quote a post of brother Hafeez on this topic
Peace all
The most BEAUTIFUL NAMES belong to Allah SO CALL ON HIM BY "THEM"; but LEAVE THOSE who APOSTATISE in His NAMES for what they do they will soon be requited. 7180
No Muslim has yet understood this verse.
Don't get PANICKED Have a look on the following three verses and ponder.
Allah! There is no god but He! To Him BELONG the Most "BEAUTIFUL NAMES". 208
He is Allah the Creator the Evolver the Bestower of Forms (or colors). To Him belong the Most "BEAUTIFUL NAMES" Whatever is in the heavens and on earth doth declare His Praises and Glory and He is the exalted in Might the Wise. 5924
Say "Call upon "ALLAH" or call upon "RAHMAN" by whatever name ye call upon Him (it is well) for to Him belong the Most BEAUTIFUL NAMES. Neither speak thy Prayer aloud nor speak it in a low tone but seek a middle course between." 17110
To Allah BELONG all the BEAUTIFUL NAMES and call Him by "ANY SUCH NAME"
The example of one BEAUTIFUL NAMES is "RAHMAN"
Now Allah says in verse 7180 that call on HIM by THEM.
How would we know which are the BEAUTIFUL NAMES of Allah unless HE has revealed THOSE in the Quran
Prophet FOLLOWED the Quran; therefore he called Allah by HIS NAME and HIS ATTRIBUTES, which are mentioned in the Quran and not his own.
The word 'THEM" indicates that Allah has revealed HIS BEAUTIFUL NAMES in the Quran and commands us to call BY THEM only.
It is no secret that Allah has 99 BEAUTIFUL NAMES and is revealed in His Quran and we are supposed to call on HIM by any of "THEM" "only"
The "THEM" does not include " AKBAR" but "AL - KABIR"
(It will be said) "This is because, when Allah Alone was invoked (in worship, etc.) you disbelieved, but when partners were joined to Him, you believed! So the judgement is only with Allah, the Most High, the (AL- KABIR) Most Great!" 4012
He knoweth the Unseen and that which is open He is (AL- KABIR) the Great the Most High 139.
That is because Allah He is the Reality and those besides Him whom they invoke they are but vain Falsehood verily Allah is He Most High (AL- KABIR) Most Great. 2262
That is because Allah is the (only) Reality and because whatever else they invoke besides Him is Falsehood; and because Allah He is the Most High (AL- KABIR) Most Great. 3130
"No intercession can avail in His Presence except for those for whom He has granted permission. So far (is this the case) that when terror is removed from their hearts (at the Day of Judgement then) will they say
What is it that your Lord commanded?' They will sayThat which is true and just; and He is the Most High (AL- KABIR) Most Great.' " 3423HE is AL KABIR and not AKBAR
There is a great difference between GREATEST and THE GREAT.
The One Who is ALONE. THE One Who has no ALIKE; The One Who has no SECOND to Him, The One Who has no PARALLEL to Him, cannot be AKBAR but only AL - KABIR.
It is a FABRICATION by the MUSLIMS and a hundredth name and not authorised by Allah.
WA- DHARO 'ALLADHENA YULH.IDON FE ASMAA' -HI 7180
And leave those who apostatises (disbelieves) in His Names.
Those who disbelieve in AL KABIR (Quranic Name) and calls Him ALLAH U AKBAR (Unquranic Name) should be left alone. They will be requited for what they used to do.
Thanks
See the following link for a discussion on this topic last year
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3075
-
Peace tanvermed. When some say god is the most merciful arent they describing god with a human atrribute,and also describing a comparison with a humans' mercy?(i dont see anything wrong in this.)
Also if i speak english why cant i say god instead of allah,has the quran authorised only the name allah and not the english word god?
Peace all. -
Peace all,
When some say god is the most merciful arent they describing god with a human atrribute,and also describing a comparison with a humans' mercy?(i dont see anything wrong in this.)
Also if i speak english why cant i say god instead of allah,has the quran authorised only the name allah and not the english word god?He has authorized THE GREAT and THE GOD, but NOT the greater. Al-Raheem is wrongly translated as "most merciful". Where does the "most" come from ? It means THE MERCIFUL.
-
Peace tanvermed. How do you know 'he'(god.) has authorised the attribute 'great' and 'the god' (which by the way are in english,and your translations.) to mean what you think they mean?...,are you sure its not your translation/interpretation that has authorised it? Also,when you say 'great' of course its a human attribute and a comparison/contrast...Or is nothing else great or merciful? If nothing else is great or merciful,dont the attributes become meaningless?
Peace all. -
Hello brother Tanveermd
nice try bro lol
well what you missed here that Akbar is not a name
when Allah told us about His names, He told us it is up to us to CALL "NADOO" Him using any of these names
Now He told us something else, which is "Nukabbir Him", this is not like calling Him with any of His names, it is an order to NuKabbir, NOT TO CALL HIM like "Da'wa" with His names
now to Nukabbir, it means we say Allah Akabar, and Akbar is not a name from his names
therefore you have n point to say, saying Allah Akbar is Kufr
Salam
-
Peace all,
How do you know 'he'(god.) has authorised the attribute 'great' and 'the god' (which by the way are in english,and your translations.) to mean what you think they mean?...,are you sure its not your translation/interpretation that has authorised it? Also,when you say 'great' of course its a human attribute and a comparison/contrast...Or is nothing else great or merciful? If nothing else is great or merciful,dont the attributes become meaningless?
I was translating to clarify the difference between Al-Kabeer and Akbar. Of course no translation is perfect and cannot perfectly convey the exact same meaning in another language.
Allah's attributes are used in the absolute sense, and when similar attributes are used for humans they are not in the absolute sense, and does not imply that you are comparing humans to Allah. Usage of Al-Kabeer does not imply that you are comparing Allah to a similar being of similar nature, but usage of Akbar does imply that, by implying that there are other lesser gods and that Allah is the greater. Remember, a comparative name such as Akbar can be used only when comparing two objects or beings of an EXACT SIMILAR NATURE. Al-Kabeer is not a comparative name.
Any way Al-Kabeer is authorized by Allah as one of His names in the qur'aan but clearly Akbar is not.
well what you missed here that Akbar is not a name
when Allah told us about His names, He told us it is up to us to CALL "NADOO" Him using any of these names
Now He told us something else, which is "Nukabbir Him", this is not like calling Him with any of His names, it is an order to NuKabbir, NOT TO CALL HIM like "Da'wa" with His names
now to Nukabbir, it means we say Allah Akabar, and Akbar is not a name from his names
therefore you have n point to say, saying Allah Akbar is Kufr
When you say Allah is Akbar meaning He is greater, you are using a comparative word, directly comparing Allah with some other being of an EXACT SIMILAR NATURE, thereby committing shirk/idolatry. Allah is greater than what ? than another god ? You can use a comparative word only for two objects of an EXACT SIMILAR NATURE. For example you cannot say that an apple is greater than an orange or the color red is greater than the color blue. You can however say that 100 is greater than 50. Allah is INCOMPARABLY GREAT.
Now to KABBAR Him (magnify Him), you can do that by saying Allahu Al-Kabeer because Al-Kabeer used with Allah has an absolute meaning and is the same as magnifying Him. The only problem is when you say Allahu Akbar you are implying comparison of Allah with a being of EXACT SIMILAR NATURE, which becomes idolatry.
Please answer a simple question Allah is greater than what ?
-
Salam AhmadBahgat, all,
Peace all,
........
When you say Allah is Akbar meaning He is greater, you are using a comparative word, directly comparing Allah with some other being of an EXACT SIMILAR NATURE, thereby committing shirk/idolatry. Allah is greater than what ? than another god ? You can use a comparative word only for two objects of an EXACT SIMILAR NATURE. For example you cannot say that an apple is greater than an orange or the color red is greater than the color blue. You can however say that 100 is greater than 50. Allah is INCOMPARABLY GREAT.Now to KABBAR Him (magnify Him), you can do that by saying Allahu Al-Kabeer because Al-Kabeer used with Allah has an absolute meaning and is the same as magnifying Him. The only problem is when you say Allahu Akbar you are implying comparison of Allah with a being of EXACT SIMILAR NATURE, which becomes idolatry.
Please answer a simple question Allah is greater than what ?
I think from a language perspective, Brother Tanveed has a point here. For me to consider it correct, someone has either to say Allah al-kabir or
Allah akbaru kabeera like ar'hamu al-raheemen or al-hamdoulillah hamdan , see verse 434 for what I am trying to say. As for takbeer, my undestanding is one way of praising HIM is by calling on HIM by HIS attributes or by using a complete sentence to describe one attribute, for instance al-rahman, al-raheem or Oh you my Lord the more merciful than anyone who is merciful (ya ar'hamu al-raheemeen) see verses 7151, 1264, and 1292.
I disagree with Tanveeer understanding of "comparaison" and similar nature and the proof is the example given to us in verses 7151, 1264, and 1292. Is saying 'ar'hamu al-rahemeen" (more merciful than those merciful) shirk? who are then "al-rahemeen" (plural of raheem)? I don't think it is shirk otherwise the Quran would not have mentioned those examples. My understanding of all the comparaisons made in Quran is precisely to assert that regardless of of any attempt to compare, and what we may think of someone or claim as vertue, there is nothing comparable to HIM, HE is above anything and everything.Having said that I will stick to al-Kabeer and all HIS attributes in Quran-).
And God the All-Mighty knows best. Peace. Myr.
-
Salaamun alaikum Myr,
I disagree with Tanveeer understanding of "comparaison" and similar nature and the proof is the example given to us in verses 7151, 1264, and 1292. Is saying 'ar'hamu al-rahemeen" (more merciful than those merciful) shirk? who are then "al-rahemeen" (plural of raheem)? I don't think it is shirk otherwise the Quran would not have mentioned those examples.
Thank you sister Myr for correcting my understanding. You have a point. However, instead of Allahu akbaru kabeera it should be Allahu akbaru al-kubbar to be on the same level as arhamu al-rahemeen. My revised understanding would be as follows
When one uses the phrase Allahu akbar meaning that Allah is greater thus comparing Allah to something else, without also mentioning ones with similar attribute (attribute of greatness) then it would not be right. We can only compare one attribute of Allah and not the whole of Allah. So I agree that one can say Allahu akbaru al-kubbar, because then we are saying that Allah is greater than all the great in the attribute of greatness. If we blanketly say Allahu akbar that will imply comparing Allah with another god because we are not mentioning who He is greater than in the attribute of greatness.
Similarly we cannot say Allahu Arham, Allah is more merciful, because again that will imply the existence of another god and that Allah is more merciful than another god. However when one says Allahu arham al-rahemeen then one is saying that Allah is more merciful than all the merciful in the attribute of mercy. So we are just comparing one attribute and not the whole God.
Hence it follows that Allah can be compared in terms of a particular attribute but INCOMPARABLE OVERALL.
-
Peace all,
Any way Al-Kabeer is authorized by Allah as one of His names in the qur'aan but clearly Akbar is not.Peace bro
The sunni said there are 99 names based on a hadith for the prophet, in this hadith even the prophet didn?t say what are the 99 names, all he said that there are 99 names in the Quran, if anyone manages to find them, He will be sent to Jannah, now I don?t take this hadith seriously indeed because it lacks a bit of common sense, neither I take any specific number as His names total, you know there are others who counted over 112 names from the Quran.
That description of Akbar was not made up by a bunch of people, in fact Abraham ?the father of all Muslims? said it himself in the Quran, and sure the prophet history records confirm that the prophet said it zillions of times in his Salat and during scarifying the Annam, and sometimes while just sitting in peace.
And because the Quran told us to Nukabir Allah, it simply means to say and believe that Allah Akbar than any thing.
In Arabic though, if we remove the second party using something called Balagha, it simply means Allah Akbar than any thing, without saying ?than anything?
Not sure how many times I have to say this bro?
well what you missed here that Akbar is not a name
when Allah told us about His names, He told us it is up to us to CALL "NADOO" Him using any of these names
Now He told us something else, which is "Nukabbir Him", this is not like calling Him with any of His names, it is an order to NuKabbir, NOT TO CALL HIM like "Da'wa" with His names
now to Nukabbir, it means we say Allah Akabar, and Akbar is not a name from his names
therefore you have n point to say, saying Allah Akbar is Kufr
When you say Allah is Akbar meaning He is greater, you are using a comparative word, directly comparing Allah with some other being of an EXACT SIMILAR NATURE,
Well, Abraham and prophet Mohammad said the same, as well we didn?t compare with any thing because there is no second party after Akbar, Allah Akabr is a very sophisticated Arabic sentence that can only be said about Allah without the need to imagine what the other party is, this is called Balagha in Arabic
Now for the similar nature point you raised, here is a surprise for you
Moses prayed "O my Lord! forgive me and my brother! admit us to Thy mercy! for Thou art the Most Merciful of those who show mercy!"
(151)
-> See, ? ?, i.e. ? the Most Merciful of those who show mercy!?, Would that be a nature comparison bro?
Also mate, do you think Moses committed blasphemy?
Well, it is not just Moses, here is prophet Jacob doing the same thing
He said "Shall I trust you with him with any result other than when I trusted you with his brother aforetime? But Allah is the best to take care (of him), and He is the Most Merciful of those who show mercy!"
(64)
Well, here is prophet Job (Ayub) doing the same thing
And Ayub, when he cried to his Lord, (saying) Harm has afflicted me, and Thou art the most Merciful of the merciful."
(83)
It seems prophet Joseph did the same exact thing
He said "This day let no reproach be (cast) on you Allah will forgive you, and He is the Most Merciful of those who show mercy!
(92)
Now it is clear from the above that these prophets ?Moses, Jacob, Ayub and Joseph? used the word ?Arham? to compare Allah with the ones who show mercy, now, those ones MUST be humans, because I don?t think they meant those other gods who show mercy, agree?
If you agree then those prophets according to your flawed logic has committed blasphemy, agree?
I don?t think you will agree on that, therefore your logic is wrong, now here is another surprise to you
You say that Al Kabir is a name of the names of Allah, which I agree, but you also say that to say Allah Akbar should be considered blasphemy because we should not compare Him with anything, ok, I?m sure you will agree that Al Karim is a name of Allah?s names, so based on your logic if I say Allah Akram, it must be blasphemy because I?m comparing Allah with something that I never mentioned in the sentence?, well, here is Allah telling Mohammad to commit this blasphemy
Read and your Lord is Most Honorable,
(3)
-> See, under your flawed logic, 963 is a clear cut blasphemy
thereby committing shirk/idolatry.
Yeh sure, like Moses, Jacob, Ayub and Jospeh who physically compared Allah with humans regarding Rahma, ?Arham Al Rahmeen?, and please have a look at 963, I guess it must be a big surprise to you
Allah is greater than what ?
than any other thing physical or not physical, that is the beauty of Balagha,
than another god ?
did we say that?
You can use a comparative word only for two objects of an EXACT SIMILAR NATURE. For example you cannot say that an apple is greater than an orange or the color red is greater than the color blue. You can however say that 100 is greater than 50. Allah is INCOMPARABLY GREAT.
Then how come Moses, Jacob, Ayub and Jospeph compared Allah with humans regarding the Rahmah ?Mercy??
Now to KABBAR Him (magnify Him), you can do that by saying Allahu Al-Kabeer because Al-Kabeer used with Allah has an absolute meaning and is the same as magnifying Him. The only problem is when you say Allahu Akbar you are implying comparison of Allah with a being of EXACT SIMILAR NATURE, which becomes idolatry.
I think you lack the Arabic language bro, this is not a shame, I admit that I lack the English language, at least I admitted it and I will welcome other who are good in English to teach me and fix my mistakes, unlike you
Please answer a simple question Allah is greater than what ?
A answered that question earlier, and please it is your turn to answer a couple of complicated questions
-
How come Moses Moses, Jacob, Ayub and Jospeph compared Allah with humans regarding the Rahmah ?Mercy??
-
What Allah was comparing Himself with when He said to Mohammad, ?Iqra Wa Rabuka Al Akram??
Salam
-