What is the scriptural support for us being a part of God?
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Peace Enquirer, All, and welcome Alpha97,
My only contention with saying God is light is the following Light has a speed and hence is governed by time. Perhaps this is splitting hairs, but I think to encapsulate God into something tangible, governed by universal laws, would be a mistake and far undershoots the reality.
On the other hand, to use the example of how light can radiate in all directions and so on is certainly helpful in understanding the effects of God, however, the essence is well beyond words.
Where the Holographic Theory relates to light, in my understanding, is only as the means to accessing the source. The light, as in a hologram, is bounced off of the source to reveal the picture. The source itself is where the essence remains. The picture that is revealed is the illusion, furnished by light.
Perhaps in the astral plane or parallel universe or dimension(whatever you want to call it) what people see as "light" during near-death experiences is another entity altogether, and can only be described as light because that's all these folks can relate it to. I've read accounts of this "light" being all-encompassing, not blinding, but also attached with feelings of absolute peace and serenity. These sensations seem to go hand in hand with what they are seeing and later calling "light".
Peace,
Tay -
peace tay. you make very valid points. I would clarify that light could be the constituent part/derivative of god,not the whole of god..The whole of god is probably unknowable. The speed of light, i believe,may be variable but scientists have yet to verify this. Also the speed,once again is related to a part,not the whole.I think the whole is infinite and the sum total of all that exists,but not a seperate entity in itself. This theory is the same as; the god is everthing that exists in different forms/manifestations of energy..Ie the light can be the common factor,but in infinite different forms.The whole cannot be seen totally by virtue of its size being infinite.(not all parts are physically visible by an individual,due to some parts of the god being 'infinitely'/disproportionatly large or 'infinitesmally' small,or a different dimension/form of energy/light..)
Peace all. -
Peace
I like to think that God is the root behind all things that exist, not being that which exists. God stands behind manifestation and projects it. God's works do not constitute God, but are an expression of God. I'd thus warn that you not take the light parable in the wrong way. That being, it is a parable.
Joe
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Hello All,
Peace Enquirer, All, and welcome Alpha97,
My only contention with saying God is light is the following Light has a speed and hence is governed by time. Perhaps this is splitting hairs, but I think to encapsulate God into something tangible, governed by universal laws, would be a mistake and far undershoots the reality.That would my contention aswell. I have reservations with stating God as Light and hence "energy" because God then is reduced to a human concept which is "energy". This goes against the insight of the past sages, seers, meditators and mystics who have said that "God" is beyond all human concepts.
Making God as Energy also has very important implications to the very Idea of God itself. In fact if you make God as Energy then God as a Creator can be dispensed with because energy is in a constant state of flux and energy can neither be Created nor Destroyed. Therefore one can say Energy alwasy existed and will continue to exist forever and because it was in a constant state of flux, energy transformed into matter and the matter transform itself to energy again...and hence no need of a Creator.
Therefore God must be matterless and energy-less as the Kalam Argument goes...therefore God as light is indeed a parable...
Just my two cents...
Regards,
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Peace all. The whole(god.) is beyond total comprehension,but that does not mean some of the parts cannot be comprehended. If we cant comprehend/understand god why do we glorify him? If we cant comprehend him,is our concept of him an illusion? Can god not be partially understood by the 'attributes' traditionally given to him? I thought the quran stated' Not to follow that of which you have no knowledge/verification'? How can we follow an idea which cannot be comprehended/verified,even partially? I think i should clarify that i am saying god=all that exists,and all that exists is constituted of energy.(in different forms.) And yes,i do believe energy is eternal and in a constant state of flux/changing of forms.The need for a 'creator ' i think is misunderstood. When certain conditions are met,then energy can manifest into a different form such as matter or a seemingly 'new' creation.. An example is the birth of an animal from the conditions of the sperm and egg meeting succesfully. There is no real creation out of nothing,there is just a new expression of energy that manifests itself to others. The soul or 'essence' or energy of the animal always existed,it has just joined with other matter.(ie a new body for the soul,when previously it/the soul was 'unseen'.)
The opinion of some past mystics can correlate with this view; if they stated god is everthing, then a part of god can be directly verified.
Sometimes i feel making god above all comprehension(ie not being able to even comprehend parts of the god.) is reducing god to nothing or just a powerless/unverifiable,contradictory,mysterious, 'leap of faith' idea.(and there is no 'real' such thing as 'nothing',nothing is an illusion or just the inability of our senses to perceive something.) The totality of god may be incomprehensible(due to its infinite nature.) but the parts/manifestations/constitutents of god can definately be verified.
Peace all. -
peace to all,
God HIMSELF gives the example of light because HE knows that we need tangible things to relate to. As HE does with example of heaven and in afterlife. Because that is also beyond our comprehension, but HE makes it tangible. The fruits, carpets, rivers,...... and as it goes for hell fire an burning. HE helps us to associate and comprehend.
HE is not talking about light of guidance, but the light of earth and heavens , so it encompasses all beings, living or not. the whole existence.
I do understand that his essence is beyond any imagination. but I do believe from this verse that HE is giving us is an allegory to quench the thirst of our imagination. HE is giving the example of a self radiating oil which gives light upon light and not only to our awareness but to earth and skies.
I enjoy very much the thoughtful and compassionate sphere of this forum.
peace
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Peace alpha97. Very interesting post. Welcome to the forum )
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This is an article i wrote couple of months ago. I am rewriting it now, it was my first, so i had to get used to explaining while keeping a broad audience in mind. So it is not a perfect article, i am changing a lot of things to it now, my understanding has grown so much since i wrote it, but it is has exactly the same subject, so eventhough it is a rough version, maybe you enjoy it.....
Peace Arnoldyasin
A scientific approach to God?s image and the Oneness of God
?What is God? Where is God?? Every person on earth will give you a different answer to these questions. ?Nowhere. Outside the universe. In heaven. In yourself. God is love. God is the Quantum Zero Point Field. God is energy. God is in these rocks. Inside this temple.? These are some remarks people could give. Which one is true? They are all based and formed on personal experience, intelligence, feelings, knowledge, personal opinions, knowledge formed by religion or tradition, conjecture. So is God for everyone different? Is our God experience subjected to every persons willingness of limit to where God can be present in their lives, can the experience be formed? I believe they are all true, and none. Humankind always has to form something into a shape, to name it. An experience or feeling, a scientific idea about the world around us. We always have to label it, put a name card on it. Shape it into an image. This is no weakness, it?s build within our nature, it helps us to deal with the things we encounter in life. But in one thing we went wrong, went ahead of ourselves, crossed a limit. We tried to grasp the Ungraspable. See Him who can?t be seen.
Some see God as energy, some see Him in the smile of a child. We try to find Him somewhere in our lives. To give form to God, to grasp Him. Give Him a place, and by doing so we give Him a size, a form, a limit to where He is present in our lives and thoughts.
I say; STOP! Drop all the thoughts you?re having and let?s start over, from the beginning. Look at ourselves and wonder why do you have such thoughts? On what experience and knowledge you have formed God on? Is it reasonable, did you really search God, or did you search a form or place for Him? Did you allow people to form Him for you? When you reflect on yourselves to see where you?re ideas come from, you will see that, most of it comes from your background, education, experience. All things that are limited and by thus create a limit for God unknowingly. So let?s start over and see where we will end.You will agree with me that there are two worlds we can reach; the world we see with our eyes, touch with our fingers, the air we breath. The material world. The other one is linked to this world, but can also go beyond it. The world of feelings. Love, happiness, pain, hate, hope, despair, anger, sorrow. We all know them, we all have a different approach to them, we name them like this, we can?t truly grasp them, but nobody will deny their existence. These worlds are linked, intertwined in one another, they form one another. So let?s see what we know now about the first world, the material world.
Science has come a long way. Every time they thought they had reached a limit, a new horizon appeared. The knowledge of the building blocks that form our material world, got smaller and more complicated over the years. First we started to understand that everything was build with small ?construction? blocks, and we called them molecules. This idea is thousands of years old, coming from the ancient history, passed on to us through the ancient Greeks. The fundamentals of the laws of the building blocks grew over the ages, until the 19th and 20th century we started to understand that they had so many properties, they also had to be formed by even smaller particles. Being present in each molecule in a different amount and formation and giving each molecule its unique qualities. Protons, neutrons and electrons. And of course these later on turned out be constructed by again smaller parts, quarks. Quarks had smaller substances and from there on it never stopped. Now we have reached a point we know we can?t go further. We start to understand we live in one unlimited energy field. No vacuum, no spaces between the energy. Scientists have given it different names but they all agree on
the properties, Zero Point Field, Akasha field. The name doesn?t matter.Because of this discovery we can understand a lot of things we earlier couldn?t explain, now we can fill in the blanks. Now quantum physics works together with biology, neurology, chemistry, philosophy and religion. New theories emerged from all different fields of science, explaining the most fundamental questions. The communication between cells, where gravity gets its energy from. The field answered a lot of material world answers. But it gave also a new explanation for the reality of the material world. People always hear things like; this life is an illusion, or life is a dream. Most religions say it, the holy books mention it. Philosophers wrote hundreds of books about it. Now this idea, this way of thinking comes from a place we would not expected to come from; science. In neurology there were already ideas that the world didn?t exist outside us. Our senses feel, hear, see, taste something coming from outside us. It goes trough our nerves and inside our brains and the feeling gets reproduced to our conscious. So we can never step outside our brain and nerves to experience the outside world. How then can we know it is real? This pondered scientists and philosophers for years. In dreams you can feel senses, experience realness. Climb a mountain while never leaving your bed. You don?t need a reality around you to experience things.
Life looks like a big super movie, a hologram. The people who examine the outside world, came with the same conclusion. There is no ?outside? just a ?something?. But not only outside you, you yourself are part of that ?something?. Even your conscious is build up out of that ?something?. Life is truly a hologram?. So there you are, reading this, with your thoughts. Thinking they are only in your head. There is no head! There is nothing, and everything. We are all connected with everything. Part of the ?something?. All is real, but in the same time not a real as before, only your thoughts and actions remain. Your choices of feelings when you experience the hologram is all that that is real. But also still based on that ?something?.
But what creates this hologram? Allows your choices? Your consciousness? All sciences show a design in the creation around you and in yourselves. When you read this article, you know it was written by an intelligence. I could have taken some ink and drop it on a piece of paper a million times. Never would it have formed a sentence, even a word. I have to direct the ink, control it to form a word or a sentence. The design in DNA, the law of physics that balance the mechanism of the creation are so precise, like in the words of professor Paul Davies? This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here?. So what?s behind this perfectly formed hologram, this perfect movie set? Does the energy field form it? So we can name this field God? No, then you start limiting and labeling again. I myself wouldn?t call it that. That kind of description makes an ?it? out of the ?something?. The something designs our being, our experiences, our world. God is everything, and goes beyond everything, beyond your thoughts. Beyond the field. God doesn?t end up on a chalkboard between thousands of formulas. Just like feelings, the Everything can?t be described. You can?t write the feeling of love for me on paper, you can only describe the effect the feeling has on you. The field can be an expression of God, a way to show His power and presence to us. Showing that you can?t escape Him, you can?t get attached to things, possessions. It?s all a hologram, not real. The only real attachment is to Him. The field is balanced, controlled by perfect laws, creating us and our universe. It shows us a message, He is here, wherever that is.
?It ? knows, ?it? forms. ?It lives and makes us live. It is conscious and truly unlimited in every-thing. And an ?it? can live, but an ?it? is something not personal. An ?it? is something unknown. But we know that?s not the case, we have known ?it? from the beginning. In every language we give a different name, but the meaning is the same. God, Allah, Aum, Adonai, Wakantanka, Ahura Mazda. So many names, but all the same qualities given to the Highest being, the Highest Reality. The Ultimate Everything. And still a lot of scientists can?t find there place in religion, they acknowledge the fact of a Creator, but don?t know what to do with their ?discovery?. The image of that Creator mentioned in the revelations of the world, say the same thing we know now through science. But they look at the religions and only see the traditions and superstitions that surrounds the religions. They don?t take the effort to go beyond these things that bury the true meaning mentioned in the holy books and oral traditions. Most traditions and beliefs that comes with a holy revelation, contradict what that revelation says. The scriptures are more realistic, more grown than the later formed traditions that surrounds them. The doctrines that later on have been formed, has more to do with the power and position the people gained using the scriptures, or misunderstandings that formed over the years, superstitions. They buried the true message hidden in the revelations. The scriptures are always the innocent victims, their words used too give people authority, instead of giving the scriptures the true importance. And by thus later on getting labeled as concocted. They are seen as ignorant efforts to explain our reason of existence, but doesn?t science try to do the same?
Of course it is really important we have to look at scriptures in a scientific way. We have to look at the psychology and social factors behind the revelations. Their history and purposes for the laws and wisdom mentioned in them. I?m not going to start the discussion in this article, which scripture is wrong or not, how much they are corrupted or not, that is not the purpose of this article. The purpose of this article is to show that the main message in the revelations are all the same, that science shows the same information. That is, stop giving God a form or place. Let?s stop trying to grasp the Ungraspable. God is everything, and can?t be comprehended. This is sometimes hard for people to understand. We are a ?thing? that can never engulf the Everything. But we still can have a relationship with Him. We have been created with a meaning, so to know us, we have to start with knowing Him. Some people say? Look God inside of you?. I say turn it around; ?Look you inside of God?.
I am the Producer and the Destroyer of the whole universe. There is nothing else, O Dhana?gaya! higher than Myself; all this is woven upon Me, like numbers of pearls upon a thread. And all entities which are of the quality of goodness, and those which are of the quality of passion and of darkness, know that they are, indeed, all from Me; I am not in them, but they are in Me.
Bhagada-vita Chapter 7, verses 6 and 10.
O You who are All! You are of infinite power, of unmeasured glory; you pervade All, and therefore You are All!
Bhagada-vita Chapter 11, verse 40Know therefore today, and lay it to your heart, that the Lord is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other.
Deuteronomy 4,39O?man, worship the Omniscient, Omnipresent, Originator, Immortal, All-pervading God, and dedicate thyself to Him.
Sama Veda, book2 agneya kanda, decade 1, verse 7The visible and invisible universe displays His grandeur. Yea, He is greater than this universe. All worlds are but a part of Him, the rest lies in His Immortal, Resplendent Nature.
Yayur Veda, Chapter 31. verse 3The birds and beasts, the trees and rocks, are the work of some great power. We believe that He, Wakantanka, is everywhere.
Chased by bears, Chief of Lakota Indians"It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the All. From Me did the All come forth, and unto Me did the All extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find Me there."
Gospel of Thomas, verse 77To God belongs the East and the West. Wherever you turn the presence of God is everywhere
All-pervading is He and All-knowing.
Quran, Chapter 2, verse 115
This is God, your Lord; there is no god but He, the Creator of all things. So pay homage to Him, for He takes care of everything. No eyes can penetrate Him, but He penetrates all eyes, and He knows all the mysteries, for He is All-knowing.
Quran, Chapter 6, verses 102-103
That is so for God is the undeniable Reality. It is He who brings the dead to life, for He has the power over every thing.
Quran, Chapter 22, verse 6So science and religion can walk hand in hand, they are meant to walk hand in hand. They complete each other. They are not each others enemies, they are true brothers.
?For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.?
Robert Jastrow, astrophysicistSo now science serves theology, it helps in the better understanding on how great a miracle it is we are here. It helps to a better understanding of the wisdom given to us by our ancestors.
But it helps also in one real important matter. In the information given above, it is clearly shown that there is only one everything. You can?t have two everything?s, you can?t split it up in little fractions, or place the power in a certain spot. Everything is one and alone. Everything is everywhere. Imagine, EVERYTHING??Everything you look at, your computer, your reflection in the mirror. The stars above, the whole universe and what lies beyond it. Everywhere you look, you look at Him. You can?t grasp it, you can?t form a picture or place for Everything. God is One. There is only one origin. One beginning. One Everything.Almost all traditions and revelations, oral or written, proclaim this. From the Bible to the Vedas, the Quran to the Zend Avesta, the traditions of Buddha to the traditions of the American Indians. From east to west, north to south. Almost all people, cultures know the most High. They all proclaim the One is above all. There is nothing else that has power, nothing else that matters. Nothing that goes beyond it. How then can it be their doctrines and way of thinking contradict this? Hindus proclaim their monotheists while worshipping hundreds of statues. Christians claim their monotheists while saying He is split up in three parts. American Indians say mother earth nurtures them. Muslim mention Muhammed next to God. Buddhists give power to Buddha. People who acknowledge a Most High, but are only dealing with their ancestors or all kinds of spirits. And the list goes on and on. They give power or importance to something that is just a ?thing? inside the Everything. A ?thing? that is not even a drop in the ocean of Everything. A ?thing? that is so minute, so powerless, because it is build up out of the Everything. When you build something, or mention a name, you use God?s presence. You ?borrow? God to make a statue, praise a name, bow down for something. When you use your thoughts, you make use of God. God gave us the power to form our reality around us, using Him. So when you praise something that is not the Everything, you praise something that has no power of its own. It doesn?t belong to itself. It isn?t loose from the Everything. It is made up out of the Everything. That little part does not resemble the Everything.
It would be like somebody grabbed your hand, folded your fingers so it formed a fist and say;? this fist can help me, this fist is special. Hit that person for me, protect me, fist.? Wouldn?t you say; ?the fist is not special, without me it can?t do nothing. I decide if I would help you, the fist can?t decide on its own. I?m its master. Why don?t you ask me to help you? Why do you ask a part of me, That has no power of its own? Where has this idea come from?? then the person might say; ?Ok, then I ask you to help me with your fist?. Wouldn?t your answer be; ?I decide if I help you with my fist, I decide with what I?m going to help you.? Imagine then you helped him, protected him using your fist. And afterwards he would say; ?thank you, I swear there is no protector but you and your fist is your helper.? wouldn?t you start all over again? ?my fist didn?t help you, I did, why mention it even? I used my fist, and may be it was an important means to help you, but still I helped you. It was me, and me alone who helped you. Why mention it like you have to??
So think closely how you ?use? God. In what ways you use the power given to you, and Who to give thanks too.Understand this and you know the true relation between you and God. There is no space between you and your Creator, no barrier. The revelations say there is no god except God, no power except the Power. This is not only a theological fact, it is now also a truly scientifically one. There is only one Everything, only one Power, One God. All is One. Let all the people of all religions understand this and we have something that truly unites us. This is step one to the higher ladder of evolving to a higher society. This will make us forget we have some differences like our color of skin or language. We are all related, created by the same One, for the same purpose. To find ourselves. All the holy revelations and creeds have the same main theme. We have to drop all the superstition and traditions that stop us to grow as humans and society, the things that are not confirmed by the scriptures and logic. And learn the background and history of the scriptures and traditions. Lets put the revelations next to the scientific discoveries, and get rid of the things that holds us back. Let us be ruled by reason and wisdom, using both science and religion. Let us grow back to another. lets pick up our ladders to God and find the chains that binds us, not separate us. Lets return to God.
God There is no god but He, the Living, Eternal, Self-subsisting, Ever-sustaining. Neither does somnolence affect Him nor sleep. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth; and who can intercede with Him except by His leave? Known to Him is all that is present before men and what is hidden (in time past and future), and not even a little of His knowledge can they grasp except what He will. His seat extends over heavens and earth, and He tires not protecting them He alone is all High and Supreme.
Quran, Chapter 2, verse 255
Surely the believers and the Jews, the Nazareans(Christians) and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day, and whosoever does right, shall have his reward with his Lord and will neither have fear nor regret.
Quran, Chapter 2, verse 62 and Chapter 5, verse 69.Who, dedicating all their actions to Me, and (holding) Me as their highest (goal), worship Me, meditating on Me with a devotion towards none besides Me, and whose minds are fixed on Me, I, without delay, come forward as their deliverer from the ocean of this world of death. Place your mind on Me only; fix your understanding on Me. In Me you will dwell hereafter, (there is) no doubt.
Bhagada-vita, Chapter 12, verse 6Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one God! Therefore you shall adore the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.
Deuteronomy Chapter 6,verses 4-5
Gospel of Mark, Chapter 11, verses 29-30God is the Creator of the universe, its One Lord, the sustainer of luminous objects like the sun. He was present before the creation of the world. He sustains this earth and the sun in past, present and future. Let us worship with self dedication of our soul, Him, the Embodiment of Happiness.
Yayur Veda, Chapter 23, verse 1Him who I desire to worship and celebrate with my hymns, I beheld just now with my eyes, Him who knows the truth, Him, the Living Wise, as the source of the good mind, the good action, and the good word, so let us put down our gifts of praise in the dwelling-house of the heavenly singers?.For the Holy One held I Thee, Mazda Ahura.
Zend-Avesta, Chapter Gatha 2, verses 8-9Great Spirit, You have always been, and before You nothing has been.
There is no one to pray to but You. The star nations all over the heavens are Yours, and Yours are the grasses of the earth. You are older than all need, older than all pain and prayer.
Sioux PrayerAgree and be united Let your minds be all of one accord, even as the learned sages of ancient days, unanimously worship GOD.Athar Veda, Book 6, Hymn 64, verse 1
Sourches
Physics and Philosophy; Werner heisenberg
The Field; Lynne McTaggart
The Tao of physics; Fritjof Capra
The reenchanted Cosmos-Welcome home in the universe; Ervin Laslo
The Holographic Universe; Michael Talbot
The Mind of God; Paul Davies
Quran, English translation; Ahmed Ali
The Bible, English standard version
Gospel of Thomas, English translation; T. Lambdin
Bhagada Vita, English translation
Zend Avesta, English translation, Irano-Aryan Faith and Doctrine; Albert Pike
Athar Veda, Sama Veda and Yayur Veda, English translation; Devi Chand
American Indian prayers and thoughts; Multiple sources
Author Arnold Mol, 2006
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peace to All.
Interesting post arnoldyasin! thank you.
We talk ( I talk) a lot about the essence of ALMIGHTY.
But HE HIMSELF talks more about his attributes and its practice.
The so called 99 names of GOD in the Quran.Talking about HIS essence suffices to example and allegory of
??????????.
I AM THAT I AM.
God is the Light of the heavens and the Earth....
??????????.
But looking into HIS attributes one notices how very often HE repeats HIS own attributes.Our human SOUL is given the capability to grow to a point to reflect HIS IMAGE by showing HIS attributes.
Having the vision of GOD without action and bringing it to practice creates an enlightened BRAIN and mind but one WILL NOT achieve the consciousness of it and can not know what sweatness is. THE SOUL can not ignite. The heart will not GLOW .
One need to act upon this attributes TO TASTE it.
HIS First attribute is RAHMAN. By practicing compassion through our lives and executing compassionate acts while having his vision in mind HIS PRESENCE can be felt!
Heart becomes clean and clear. The SOUL of God, which was blown into us, shines through crystal of our heart.
Each attribute has a function and its time for a believer to act upon which fully reflect HIS WIL.
I would appreciate more exchange of ideas on the point of attributes of GOD.
peace
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Salaam,
Thank you, i am working on a revised version of this article now my knowledge has grown.
And i agree with you that we must reflect the attributes of God. He is the ultimate version of the Attribute, but we must try our best to reach our limit in being that attribute ourselves. Compassion, strenght, love, mercy, beauty, knowledge, wisdom and so on. We all have the allibity to be these in the best we can. God is not just our Creator. He is our focus on how to act.
If you want we can chat more
Peace.........
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Peace arnoldyasin and alpha97. Excellent posts ! I agree,i think we should try to emulate the 'attributes' of god to the best of our individual and collective abilities..(compassion,nurturing,forgiveness etc..)
One question i would like to address to all is; Is god the sum total of everything that exists?(and so not an entity but a description.) Or a seperate entity,with its own 'existence'?
Peace all. -
Salaam,
Q
Is god the sum total of everything that exists?(and so not an entity but a description.) Or a seperate entity,with its own 'existence'?The thing is, you say the sum of everything, you can not sum up everything. That suggests their are spaces/barriers between substances to sum them/put them together. There are no gaps, all is one unlimited bubble, no outer edges. God has no limits. And the everything was there before us, before the creation, and like i said in the article, 'it' designs. We cannot describe God, like my example with feelings. Can you write down for me the exact description of love or anger? No, you cannot, you can only describe what it does to you, what kind of effect it has on you, but you cannot describe what is effecting you, you can only give it a name. If we can't descripe feelings, how on earth can we describe God then?
Like God says in 2888, only His presence will remain. You are asking if God is an entity with its own existence, what you are asking is beyond our limit, we cannot grasp the Everything. This is like a molecule of water can look around it, and see every other molecule in the sea, it can't. Moses asked the same thing, are you an entity i can see? The mountain exploded, so it shows God can't be described. A thing in the Everything can't go outside it, because Everything is unlimited, there is no outside the everything, so we cannot ever look at God from outside. God is aware, is All-knowing, is......
Allah hu Akbar.......litteraly..........
Peace Arnold
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peace arnoldyasin and all. I agree with some of your post.We do not see all of god at once,beacause god is infinite. I will re-word my question; Does god(the 'all'.) have a will which is totally independent? Or do an infinite amount of wills make up an interdependent whole/oneness of unfathomable,indescribable reality?(known as or called god.)
I would appreciate anyones input on this topic.
peace all. -
Salaam,
If you looked carefully i already answered your question
Does god(the 'all'.) have a will which is totally independent? Or do an infinite amount of wills make up an interdependent whole/oneness of unfathomable,indescribable reality?(known as or called god.)
All laws of this universe came into being before we were created, all of those laws were there to make us and the universe, so this means there was a will, a conciousness before our conciousness came into being.
Something made our conciousness, so this creator-conciousness is seperated from us in His decision making. We don't form Him, He forms us. We are only a drop in all of the creation, and all that is created is only a drop in the Everything. I have heared your question before, but people forget we are the outcome of a long process, so there must have been something before our conciousnesses came into being. Also in Quantumphysics it is proven there must have been an Observer to create all creation, without observation, it can't be formed into reality, so the Ultimate Observer is God, and thus His will is loose/seperated from our will.I hope this is clear enough....
Peace........Arnold
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Peace all,
Something to think about
If The God is separate from the creation then the sum total of The God and the creation would be bigger than The God, which is impossible. Hence, where does The God end and the creation begin ?
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Peace tanvermed,arnoldyasin and all. Excellent statement and question tanvermed! The god(the all.) does not end,and everything that exists(what some peole call 'creation' or manifestations.) comprises and makes up the god.(the all.) I dont believe there is necessarily a seperate entity called god. God is the word for the sum total of all that exists.And so god is an infinite collection of 'finite' parts,Not a seperate entity to us.
Peace all. -
Salaam,
Q
f The God is separate from the creation then the sum total of the creation and The God would be bigger than The God, which is impossible. Hence, where does The God end and the creation begin ?No everything is God, even you are made out of God, God is everything and more. God doesn't begin or end, the creation is part of him. Just like you are made out of organs, organs made out of cells, cells made out of cell-plasma, plasma out of molecules, molecules out of protones/neutrones/electrons, these are made out of energywaves,the energywaves come from smaller energylevels and so on till you end up in infinity. You are all made out of these levels, these worlds. All work with their own information, but still they form you. We know now that almost all particles, cells and so on, seems to have a form of conciousness, it 'knows' what it has to do. Does this mean they are seperate from you? Because you know, how you feel and think effects your body, so you can influence these parts of you. So these little conciousnesses don't make up your conciousness, but still you can control them, you make up them, they don't make up you, you are them, but they are not you. So God doesn't begin or end anywhere, He is everywhere, He is everything. But all that inside this everything, these creations, or not Him, but He is them. And more, because our minds cannot grasp Him, a bottle of seawater doesn't contain the whole ocean, and can't by thus grasp the size of it.
You are doing exactly what i tried to explain in my article, you are trying to give a 'form' to Him, His conciousness can not be read by our minds, just like your cells cannot read yours, but His can read ours, control it.
But He gives us a conciousness that can think on it own, while making 'use' of Him, so our conciousnesses don't limit His conciousness, it is not like we sit in His car, and take up the backseat so he can't use it anymore. He 'thinks' on a level that goes beyond our world. Stop grasping it, because you can't...........Also God is not just the sum of all creation, because all that is created, everything that we or any creation like the angels can see or experience are only a drop inside His being everything. Even if you sum up all creation, it will only form a drop in His neverending being. It doesn't stop there, it just never stops. If you say He's all that is created, you again give a form to Him, because we can grasp creations, give a size to them, so if we sum them up, we 'end up' with a result, how infinte for our little brains that would be, but still that couldn't be the Everything in total, because then we can 'give' a size to it, saying it is all creation summed up, and by thus giving it a limit. What i am trying to say is, stop looking for the boundaries or forms. Just let it go, God is a neverending road, our minds will never reach the end.
God is everything, everywhere, all that exists is made out of Him, and everything beyond that, because everything is bigger then the creation, everything is without limits, endings or beginnings. This is hard to grasp, that is why God is ungraspable. God is the greatest, litteraly....
Can you grasp this what i am trying to say? D .......
Peace Arnold
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Peace arnoldyasin. Good post. Whatever we say about god can be said by some to be limiting him....However if we say nothing what does this imply?
I think god is the sum total of all that exists,perceived and unperceived. I dont believe this is putting a limit on god,or defining god exactly.(all that exists is infinite.)No matter what anybody says they will give god some type of definition,even a partial one. If we say god is indescribable,that is still a description?
peace all. -
Peace all. I believe idol-free made an excellent point regarding spiritual growth coming from resistance from each other. I believe if we take others advice in an open-minded,respectful way.And strive to find the true reality by discussing and dialoguing with each other dynamically,then we can all grow in our understandings.I feel we should not feel too threatened when our beliefs/theories,or ideas we hold dear to ourselves are challenged. Or take these challenges too personally. I think the aim is to increase awareness through challenge,receptiveness and civil,tolerant debate. I think we should try not to be too scared,or over-emotional to discuss important issues.
peace all. -
Yes, i understand what you are trying to say, so i will give you an example of how i think.
Write down for me the feeling love or hate....You can't, the only thing you can write down is the effect it has on you, not what it is. So we can name it, the name refers to it, but doesn't describe it, it only points to the direction. So naming it is seperate from describing it. Terms like infinity are only pointing a direction towards what it really is, not what it is. Like you can describe infinity with a neverending road, we can grasp the road thing, and the riding on it, but riding on it while it never ends? Our brain stops after a while, it has reached then its limit of imagination. And that is uninmanigable
So we can see, if you ask me what is infinity, what is everything, i can point you the direction, but you will never reach the destination, but in the same time while you are travelling this neverending road, you are experiencing infinity. Funny he? You can experience God, His being everything, traveling that road, put up roadsigns, but you can never get off the road to describe it from outside...
Peace....