Did Lot offer her daughters for sex?

[jonny_k]

Peace "AB",

erxcuse me bro, the Quran is a reminder not a book we spend pur times counting letters, words and whatever

JK- Did i ever make such a statement. Thats only to get the proof that it is from GOD. Once we have that we can rely on everything it says and thats exactly what weve done.

i'm not sure if rashad khalifa spent really time studying the wisdom in it rather to bloody count, this is rediculous man

JK- If your not sure then just goto www.submissiontv.com and view the clips "The Great Debate Parts A&B" and youll see that RK talks about 90% about the Quran and what it says and only about 10% of code-19 in the last session and that even on demand. So please, no prejudice.

let's work on 7431 please and convince me if you can, while I admit that it is not your onus but mine, therefore i should put it in other words, help me if you can but by only using logic

Salam bro

JK- 7431 can be understood in TWO ways but in my view and many others it doesnt make sense that "the fitnah/trial of the number 19 made the believers increase in faith or convinced the Jews and Christians" while "the number 19 DID INDEED increase the believers' faith, like in my case, and bro Edip knows some Christians and Jews who were convinced based on this nos pattern and so was bro Bahman, a former atheist". So using the facts and logic, the 2nd understanding makes more sense. Btw your claiming that you can make a pattern based on nos 17, 13, etc shows that youve not understood the complete picture of the interlocks. Please read
"Intelligent People's guide to code-19" at www.19.org
GOD Bless!

[unknownuser]

Peace "AB",

JK- If your not sure then just goto www.submissiontv.com and view the clips "The Great Debate Parts A&B" and youll see that RK talks about 90% about the Quran and what it says and only about 10% of code-19 in the last session and that even on demand. So please, no prejudice.

Peace bro

I watched many of his videos man, but sorry could not buy the 19 thingy though, but i bought some of the things he said so no prejudice here

JK- 7431 can be understood in TWO ways but in my view and many others it doesnt make sense that "the fitnah/trial of the number 19 made the believers increase in faith or convinced the Jews and Christians" while "the number 19 DID INDEED increase the believers' faith, like in my case, and bro Edip knows some Christians and Jews who were convinced based on this nos pattern and so was bro Bahman, a former atheist". So using the facts and logic, the 2nd understanding makes more sense. Btw your claiming that you can make a pattern based on nos 17, 13, etc shows that youve not understood the complete picture of the interlocks. Please read
"Intelligent People's guide to code-19" at www.19.org
GOD Bless!

Here is the verse just to follow you

And We have set none but angels as Guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers,- in order that the People of the Book may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith,- and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, "What symbol doth Allah intend by this?" Thus doth Allah leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than a warning to mankind.

(31)

Without referring to the history records about what the prophet and others said regarding this verse, I see as follow

1. specifying the number of the hell angels can be a fitnah to the Kuffar, i.e. it can be about the 19 code advocates themselves , no offence here

2. Alazeen Autu Al Kitab, can be any one who received a book from Allah, i.e. Christians, Jews and Muslims, possibly others, the people who were given a book does not really mean that they are believers rather I see the ones who yet to make up their minds, Alazeen Amanu can be referring to anyone from Alazeen Autu Al Kitab but made up their minds and believed

3. Specifying the number of the hell angels can be a confirmation to Alazeen Autu Al Kitab (Yet to make up their minds) so they can then believe and become Alazeen Amanu the donlt donbt, the assurance is seeing the prophecy of the fitnah came to pass when the Kuffar suggested that this is a miracle and tried to manipulate Allah words by removing verses from the Quran to suit their fitnah "this is enough to earn them the title Kuffar"

4. same with Alzeen Amanu, the doubt will not come to them after seeing the fitnah of number 19 came to pass through the 19 code advocates

5. The people who are sick in the heart will reject both sides and will insist that it is not a fitnah nor a miracle

6. The Kuffar wondered already about that Mathal by Allah and asked themselves what that mathal means? then made up a whole new concept based on the number 19, and in the process they had to manipulate Allah words which is enough to classify them as Kuffar, a kafir is one who belives in Allah but disobey and lie about Him, exactly like Satan, Satan was a kafir not a Mushrik

7. , ? none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He? this bit in the verse indicates that the dispute was how many they are compared to another group, not really why they are 19, which confirms the history records regarding what happened back then when this verse was released

and finally, , ?this is no other than a warning to mankind?, this bit also confirms that it is not about the miracle rather about the hell fire, because code 19 can?t be a reminder to all humanity because prior to 1974 no one knows about it, while prior to 1974 most humans who received a book knew about hell and was a warning to them,

as you can see I stayed as literal as possible

Peace

[jonny_k]

Peace bro "AB",

Peace bro

I watched many of his videos man, but sorry could not buy the 19 thingy though, but i bought some of the things he said so no prejudice here

JK- Did you see the Great Debate? If you did then you should know thats RK focused more on the message himself.

Here is the verse just to follow you

And We have set none but angels as Guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers,-(you put a semicolon to separate at this point but as i told you it can be read both ways and this one is nonsensible) in order that the People of the Book may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith,- and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, "What symbol doth Allah intend by this?" Thus doth Allah leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than a warning to mankind.

(31)

Without referring to the history records about what the prophet and others said regarding this verse, I see as follow

JK- Why even mention this? We dont believe in hadith interpreting Quran, right?

1. specifying the number of the hell angels can be a fitnah to the Kuffar, i.e. it can be about the 19 code advocates themselves , no offence here

JK- NO no no no noooo. This is the understanding which doesnt make sense at all since exactly the opposite happened. So did GOD lie according to you? It didnt cause a fitnah but strengthened the belief of the believers.

2. Alazeen Autu Al Kitab, can be any one who received a book from Allah, i.e. Christians, Jews and Muslims, possibly others, the people who were given a book does not really mean that they are believers rather I see the ones who yet to make up their minds, Alazeen Amanu can be referring to anyone from Alazeen Autu Al Kitab but made up their minds and believed

JK- Well bro Bahman Goharzad(www.y19.net) fits perfectly into the above underlined category and he was convinced BECAUSE OF 19 AND NOT BECAUSE OF THE FITNAH OF 19. Mreover it strengthened my faith and i already believed before in the Quran.

3. Specifying the number of the hell angels can be a confirmation to Alazeen Autu Al Kitab (Yet to make up their minds) so they can then believe and become Alazeen Amanu the donlt donbt, the assurance is seeing the prophecy of the fitnah came to pass when the Kuffar suggested that this is a miracle and tried to manipulate Allah words by removing verses from the Quran to suit their fitnah "this is enough to earn them the title Kuffar"

JK- First you say correctly that specifying the number itself can be, infact is, a conformation to those people and then you mix in the wrong understanding by conclcuing that their assurance is by seeing the prophecy of the fitnah come to pass. But let me tell you NONE of the nonbelievers were convinced by this so called NON EXISTENT FITNAH. No one became a believer as yet by witnessing this so called fitnah but many became believers like Bahman by seeing the pattern based on 19 itself. That should tell you something.

4. same with Alzeen Amanu, the doubt will not come to them after seeing the fitnah of number 19 came to pass through the 19 code advocates

JK- Again this is a silly claim since my very own faith increased NOT by noticing the fitnah but because of the pattern of 19 in the Quran.

5. The people who are sick in the heart will reject both sides and will insist that it is not a fitnah nor a miracle

JK- In my view and in that of many others the people who are sick at heart include those who isnsist that code-19 is a fitnah inspite of the evidence at hand.

6. The Kuffar wondered already about that Mathal by Allah and asked themselves what that mathal means? then made up a whole new concept based on the number 19, and in the process they had to manipulate Allah words which is enough to classify them as Kuffar, a kafir is one who belives in Allah but disobey and lie about Him, exactly like Satan, Satan was a kafir not a Mushrik

JK- Youve got the wrong understanding of that part too. "What does GOD mean by this mathal" can very be understood as a mockery as if to say "So what, this is not any code". RK never made up a new cnoncept. This was integrated into the Quran by GOD Himself. RK only revealed it. Also we never ask what does GOD mean anyways since we know it. YOU are the ones who wondered at it because you probably cannot understand it or something i dont know. Moreover there is NO MANIPULATION at all. This once again shows your ignorance of the pattern. Bro Bahman gave a good example of different gears in a system where a few got disconnected so they are adjusted ?ntil the right plac is found and then voila the system works again. Code-19 even allowed predictions to be made. One such included the word "bastatan" being spelled with sin instead of sad. Bro Edip predicted that based on the code and voila one of the oldest available documents showed that it was indeed spelled with "sin". This is exactly the scientific method my friend and it made predictions, stood test after test without being falsified.

7. , ? none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He? this bit in the verse indicates that the dispute was how many they are compared to another group, not really why they are 19, which confirms the history records regarding what happened back then when this verse was released

JK- What history record? Are you mixing in hadith again. I understand this part to mean that yes only GOD knows the number of His forces and so He is the one who revealed the 19 ones in this verse, the number of which is seen to be used as a marvellous pattern also.

and finally, , ?this is no other than a warning to mankind?, this bit also confirms that it is not about the miracle rather about the hell fire, because code 19 can?t be a reminder to all humanity because prior to 1974 no one knows about it, while prior to 1974 most humans who received a book knew about hell and was a warning to them,

as you can see I stayed as literal as possible

Peace

JK- Ever heard about the perpetuality of the meanings of Quranic verses before? I guess not. The meanings of Quranic verses are NOT static, therefore there may have been other understandings of this before. But it is also possible that certain verses are NOT UNDERSTOOD by people in the past like 2130 for example. Same could have been with sura 74 or 7430-35. GOD Bless!

[unknownuser]

Peace bro "AB",

Peace bro

I watched many of his videos man, but sorry could not buy the 19 thingy though, but i bought some of the things he said so no prejudice here

JK- Did you see the Great Debate? If you did then you should know thats RK focused more on the message himself.

Peace bro

I?m not sure as I watched a few over a year ago, and I wasn?t really impressed my friend, but I will have another look and see if I saw it or not

Here is the verse just to follow you

And We have set none but angels as Guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers,-(you put a semicolon to separate at this point but as i told you it can be read both ways and this one is nonsensible) in order that the People of the Book may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith,- and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, "What symbol doth Allah intend by this?" Thus doth Allah leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than a warning to mankind.

(31)

Without referring to the history records about what the prophet and others said regarding this verse, I see as follow

JK- Why even mention this? We dont believe in hadith interpreting Quran, right?

sorry bro if you mean by we ?you and myself? then this is not entirely accurate, as I don?t reject the hadith neither I put it in the same level as the Quran, nor I accept all the hadith, at the end of the day it is for me a mere history record as other zillions of history records that are not religiously based

1. specifying the number of the hell angels can be a fitnah to the Kuffar, i.e. it can be about the 19 code advocates themselves , no offence here

JK- NO no no no noooo. This is the understanding which doesnt make sense at all since exactly the opposite happened. So did GOD lie according to you? It didnt cause a fitnah but strengthened the belief of the believers.

excuse me bro. please don?t ask me this silly questions about Allah, now to answer your silly question, I guess you mean that I think that they are not 19 but something else, NO no no no noooo, I believe 100% that they are 19, but the fitnah was evident on the code 19 advocates because they proved verse 7431, there is no way on earth that the true believers are required by Allah to believe in that code 19 as part of the belief, it sounds very laughable indeed

2. Alazeen Autu Al Kitab, can be any one who received a book from Allah, i.e. Christians, Jews and Muslims, possibly others, the people who were given a book does not really mean that they are believers rather I see the ones who yet to make up their minds, Alazeen Amanu can be referring to anyone from Alazeen Autu Al Kitab but made up their minds and believed

NO no no no noooo JK- Well bro Bahman Goharzad(www.y19.net) fits perfectly into the above underlined category and he was convinced BECAUSE OF 19 AND NOT BECAUSE OF THE FITNAH OF 19. Mreover it strengthened my faith and i already believed before in the Quran.

I don?t know brother Bahman Goharzad, and before i can say something i have to know who he is first

For you, when you say it strengthened your faith, I believe you just making this up and thinking it strengthened your faith to Allah, but for me it strengthened your faith in code 19 itself which something I see not required to believe in according to many verses in the Quran, as well it made you believe that the Quran was injected with two human verses, see it didn?t strengthen your faith in the Quran, it actually made you doubt it then changing it.

For me it also strengthened my faith as I saw the fitnah mentioned in 7431 clearly came to pass in 1974

3. Specifying the number of the hell angels can be a confirmation to Alazeen Autu Al Kitab (Yet to make up their minds) so they can then believe and become Alazeen Amanu the donlt donbt, the assurance is seeing the prophecy of the fitnah came to pass when the Kuffar suggested that this is a miracle and tried to manipulate Allah words by removing verses from the Quran to suit their fitnah "this is enough to earn them the title Kuffar"

JK- First you say correctly that specifying the number itself can be, infact is, a conformation to those people and then you mix in the wrong understanding by conclcuing that their assurance is by seeing the prophecy of the fitnah come to pass.

yes bro this is how I see it fitting the whole context of the Quran and the message within it.

But let me tell you NONE of the nonbelievers were convinced by this so called NON EXISTENT FITNAH. No one became a believer as yet by witnessing this so called fitnah but many became believers like Bahman by seeing the pattern based on 19 itself. That should tell you something.

how do you know that bro?, I mean that NONE of non believers were convinced by this so called FITNAH?

Firstly, 7431 NEVER said that any non believer will be a believer after seeing the fitnah, it only said that it will be a confirmation, it never said confirmation to what really.

Now for mister Bahman, I guess to believe in the Allah because of code 19 is very shaky indeed and somehow does not sound like faith based on the wisdom in the Quran rather some addition and multiplications according to many non consistent and random criteria, code 19 is a joke bro, I looked at it very carefully man and printed a whole heap of pages and read it more than three times until I concluded that it is a load of rubbish, sorry no offence to anyone.

If you want to convince me, then you have to convince me why the random criteria was selected randomly?

4. same with Alzeen Amanu, the doubt will not come to them after seeing the fitnah of number 19 came to pass through the 19 code advocates

JK- Again this is a silly claim since my very own faith increased NOT by noticing the fitnah but because of the pattern of 19 in the Quran.

bro, if there is 1000 code 19 followers who were Muslims then their faith increased after 1974, then I?m sure there will be 19 as much from the rest of the Muslims who had their faith increased after seeing the fitnah mentioned 1400 years ago came to pass on 1974, therefore you can?t use your own self as an example neither to judge anyone?s faith that increased or deceased because simply no one can know that but Allah

5. The people who are sick in the heart will reject both sides and will insist that it is not a fitnah nor a miracle

JK- In my view and in that of many others the people who are sick at heart include those who isnsist that code-19 is a fitnah inspite of the evidence at hand.

firstly 7431 called it fitnah not me as a matter of fact, now show me where it says that it is a miracle (sign)

secondly, please discuss the evidence and tell me why R K kept changing the criteria of adding and multiplying randomly?

I tell you why he did it randomly, simply to work out a result of multiples of 19 , this is a joke bro, I?m really surprised that you bought it

Now please take me to the basics and explain to me my concern regarding the criteria, I can show you many examples if you would like to refute it.

6. The Kuffar wondered already about that Mathal by Allah and asked themselves what that mathal means? then made up a whole new concept based on the number 19, and in the process they had to manipulate Allah words which is enough to classify them as Kuffar, a kafir is one who belives in Allah but disobey and lie about Him, exactly like Satan, Satan was a kafir not a Mushrik

JK- Youve got the wrong understanding of that part too. "What does GOD mean by this mathal" can very be understood as a mockery as if to say "So what, this is not any code".

well I see it differently, the word mathal does not have to be a metaphor all the times, it can mean that an example of a reminder, the reminder is Hell has 19 angels to guard it and to force the laws inside it, you can see an example of Mathal that mean an example of a reminder in 473

RK never made up a new cnoncept. This was integrated into the Quran by GOD Himself.

LOL mate, this is very inaccurate, I?m sure he created a whole new concept regarding code 19, now I believe if Allah will do such thing called code 19 in His Quran then He will keep the criteria fixed on all multiplications and addition, not change it every time to make up a result of 19(s)

RK only revealed it.

Yeh Satan also inspires and makes it look good like a revelation, I believe he is clever in pinpointing who are the shaky in the heart and can follow him with ease

Also we never ask what does GOD mean anyways since we know it.

sorry know what exactly?, that the criteria chosen was so dodgy and funny almost all additions and multiplications?, I don?t know really, as what I said is what I can see clearly as a math professional

YOU are the ones who wondered at it because you probably cannot understand it or something i dont know.

not really, let me take you back before 1974

this is when R K was reading the Quran then he reached verses 7430 and 7431. so he asked himself, what Allah means by saying the Hell has 19 guards?, he kept asking the same question and thinking hard then suggested that it might be a code that is hidden in the Quran which is based on number 19 then he spent years adding and multiplying RANDOMLY to prove it, I never said to myself what Allah meant by this? Nor I spent years counting, adding and multiplying numbers from the Quran, I started to look at it after R K said what he said the I tried to qualify it then reached my verdict and I can prove it to you by just looking at the random criteria

Moreover there is NO MANIPULATION at all.

I?m sure there is a lot in the criteria specified by R K

This once again shows your ignorance of the pattern.

ok, but I may ask what pattern exactly?

Bro Bahman gave a good example of different gears in a system where a few got disconnected so they are adjusted ?ntil the right plac is found and then voila the system works again.

yeh, Muslims should take brother Bahman as an example instead of the prophet, what crap is this bro?

Code-19 even allowed predictions to be made.

yeh like the Judgment day prediction, LOL, this is enough to prove that R K was inspired by Satan, sorry

I also guess with random criteria you can bloody predict anything

One such included the word "bastatan" being spelled with sin instead of sad. Bro Edip predicted that based on the code and voila one of the oldest available documents showed that it was indeed spelled with "sin". This is exactly the scientific method my friend and it made predictions, stood test after test without being falsified.

let?s put it again to the test but this time we will only discuss the criteria

7. , ? none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He? this bit in the verse indicates that the dispute was how many they are compared to another group, not really why they are 19, which confirms the history records regarding what happened back then when this verse was released

JK- What history record? Are you mixing in hadith again.

is it a crime or something?

As I said zillions of times man, the history records can?t be ignored and must stay as mere history records

I understand this part to mean that yes only GOD knows the number of His forces and so He is the one who revealed the 19 ones in this verse, the number of which is seen to be used as a marvellous pattern also.

marvellous pattern according to random criteria?, this is a joke man, please bro, you have to tell me about the criteria first and why it was randomly made up?

and finally, , ?this is no other than a warning to mankind?, this bit also confirms that it is not about the miracle rather about the hell fire, because code 19 can?t be a reminder to all humanity because prior to 1974 no one knows about it, while prior to 1974 most humans who received a book knew about hell and was a warning to them,

as you can see I stayed as literal as possible

Peace

JK- Ever heard about the perpetuality of the meanings of Quranic verses before? I guess not. The meanings of Quranic verses are NOT static, therefore there may have been other understandings of this before. But it is also possible that certain verses are NOT UNDERSTOOD by people in the past like 2130 for example. Same could have been with sura 74 or 7430-35. GOD Bless!

if Allah wanted a code 19 to be a miracle in the Quran, He is not going to tell us that the number of the Hell angels are 19 and we should work out this non sense, this is very disrespectful to Allah to believe that He inserted such non sense and want us to follow R K otherwise He will throw us in Hell, Allah signs in the Quran are clear and obvious. I?m not talking scientific signs, only the hard core facts like the sun, the moon and many others

Yes I agree that some verses may not be understood properly, but that is based on individual words not a whole new concept from another planet with no merit at all, a child that is good in math must ask why R K kept changing the criteria?

How about we tackle the J day prediction and see what criteria he used, then we move on to the age 40 dilemma?

Peace man

Edited

Fixed many typos

[thegod]

there would be many problems in believing that lot was offering his daugthers and 1 of them would be numbers! were the number of daughters same as the number of men out there? what about the rest of men if the group outnumbered the daughters? it clearly says 'qawmahu'!

which father would offer his daugthers to men who are craving for men...just so that those men do not sin?

like already pointed out, would it be fair unto those daughters to have to accede to such a preposterous proposal by their father? does god not give women the right to choose whom they want to marry? or were lot's daugther inanimate objects which a thoughtless father would hand over to a bunch of crazed adulterers? what would be the future of such a marriage? would that be anything having to do with islam? all the more coming from a prophet?