Destiny of those praying 5x towards the cube?
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peace.
Do they not carefully analyse the Quran. If it had been from other than Allaah then surely they would have found many discrepancies therein
Are the above people of azzikr?
Peace
i think it is about the rejectors . but i will have to make sure by reading the sura again , or at least some of the surrounding verses . later .
but whats the point ?
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I think its a general command/advice to anyone, as no one can really have faith/accept the Quran without evidence/out of ignorance. I myself try to find discrepancies and everyone should do that. So it does not refer "only" to the rejectors, its general.
whats it got do with ahluzzikar ?!
The point is we should ask the people of knowledge/remembrance and these are anybody, as far as truth come first.
you are missing all the points . when the Koran says "THE Book" , it is not refering to all GENERAL books , but to a SPECEFIC book . in the same way, "THE reminder" is not refering GENERAL reminder but a SPECEFIC reminder , which is contained in the Koran (according to 381) . do u reject verse 381 ?
peace.
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Salam brother darbaari
Just a quick note and please don?t consider it a debate in anyway, calling the Quran ?The Reading? and substituting it with the two words ?The Reading? is very misleading, vague and does not make any sense
salam.
i dont want to divert the topic here , so i will create a seperate thread for this and reply there (but i m not trying to start a lengthy debate ) ) -
peace.
Do they not carefully analyse the Quran. If it had been from other than Allaah then surely they would have found many discrepancies therein
Are the above people of azzikr?
Peace
i think it is about the rejectors . but i will have to make sure by reading the sura again , or at least some of the surrounding verses . later .
but whats the point ?
.
I think its a general command/advice to anyone, as no one can really have faith/accept the Quran without evidence/out of ignorance. I myself try to find discrepancies and everyone should do that. So it does not refer "only" to the rejectors, its general.
whats it got do with ahluzzikar ?!
The point is we should ask the people of knowledge/remembrance and these are anybody, as far as truth come first.
you are missing all the points . when the Koran says "THE Book" , it is not refering to all GENERAL books , but to a SPECEFIC book . in the same way, "THE reminder" is not refering GENERAL reminder but a SPECEFIC reminder , which is contained in the Koran (according to 381) . do u reject verse 381 ?
peace.
Salam,
Why should we ask the people of the Quran on every matter? Quran is not a detail solution to everything. Hence it is recomended to ask the experts. I do not agree that there are people who are expert on the Quran, logically it means nothing to me for someone to be an expert on the Quran. Are you talking about Islamic/Muslim Scholars? I am confused. Please eleborate shock
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The point is we should ask the people of knowledge/remembrance and these are anybody, as far as truth come first.
you are missing all the points . when the Koran says "THE Book" , it is not refering to all GENERAL books , but to a SPECEFIC book . in the same way, "THE reminder" is not refering GENERAL reminder but a SPECEFIC reminder , which is contained in the Koran (according to 381) . do u reject verse 381 ?
Why should we ask the people of the Quran on every matter? Quran is not a detail solution to everything. Hence it is recomended to ask the experts. I do not agree that there are people who are expert on the Quran, logically it means nothing to me for someone to be an expert on the Quran. Are you talking about Islamic/Muslim Scholars? I am confused. Please eleborate
salam.
you just dodged verse 381 . i asked do u reject verse 381 ? -
The point is we should ask the people of knowledge/remembrance and these are anybody, as far as truth come first.
you are missing all the points . when the Koran says "THE Book" , it is not refering to all GENERAL books , but to a SPECEFIC book . in the same way, "THE reminder" is not refering GENERAL reminder but a SPECEFIC reminder , which is contained in the Koran (according to 381) . do u reject verse 381 ?
Why should we ask the people of the Quran on every matter? Quran is not a detail solution to everything. Hence it is recomended to ask the experts. I do not agree that there are people who are expert on the Quran, logically it means nothing to me for someone to be an expert on the Quran. Are you talking about Islamic/Muslim Scholars? I am confused. Please eleborate
salam.
you just dodged verse 381 . i asked do u reject verse 381 ?Salam bro I do not reject verse 381. What is the specific reminder?
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salam bro .
salam.
you just dodged verse 381 . i asked do u reject verse 381 ?Salam bro I do not reject verse 381. What is the specific reminder?
ok . it is an attribute of the Book . when u read it , it keeps on reminding you (about many things for example about the blessings of God and His punishments etc ) .
and this is what people of the reminder do
5045 ...So remind with the Quran those who fear My promise.
i hope u understand now .
salam.
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Salam,
thanks for your information. I myself when I remind with the Quran I use the circumstances and the condition we are in alot. I do believe its true that we remind first with the Quran, but expert advice we should consult people who know on the details of the topic concerned. The danger nowadays is people go to the Imams, Mol-Vs, holy guys with long beards-dressed in gowns and pair of Caterpillers.
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Salam,
thanks for your information. I myself when I remind with the Quran I use the circumstances and the condition we are in alot. I do believe its true that we remind first with the Quran, but expert advice we should consult people who know on the details of the topic concerned. The danger noawads is prople go to the Imams, Mol-Vs, holy guys with long beards-dressed in gowns and pair of Caterpillers.
salam.
u r welcome .regarding your question
Why should we ask the people of the Quran on every matter? Quran is not a detail solution to everything. Hence it is recomended to ask the experts.
i had already replied to this one here
bmbmm wrote
I thought it means to ask people with knowledge. From what you are saying (people of the Quran) we are restricting ourselves and furthermore it does not help much as "what really are people of the Quran"? For instance, if I have something to ask about the details an astronomical event I will ask NASA scientists, as it really does not matter, and I don't think they have to be people of the Quran. Also if its related to genomic analysis of a fly I will consult UC Berkley as they sequenced it.
darbaari wrote
if u want to ask about the above information , u will ask the appropriate people/scientists . but if u want to ask about the information in context of 1643 , u will ask the people who posses the Remembrance/Reminder(Koran) . who will support their answers with the verses of the Koran .
salam.
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Salam,
Don't you think that this understanding (asking people of the Quran) lead people to the Mol-Vs, Imams, Pir, Holy man and into the folds a monastic believe. I myself see people having questions are going to these people who are not helping them. Perhaps you should give me an example/cheracter of the people of remembrance. Who are these?
Peace
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Peace bmbmm,
Perhaps you should give me an example/cheracter of the people of remembrance. Who are these?
WE are the people of the reminder. You, me, everyone.
4344 And this is indeed a reminder for you and your people; and you will all be questioned.
We should try to form our own understanding of Allah's message using our mind, intellect, reason, and knowledge, and we should not follow our desires.
1024 It is such that We clarify the revelations to a people who think (yatafakkaroona).
3028 It is such that We clarify the revelations for a people who have sense (ya'aqiloona).
3029 No, those who were wrong followed their desires without knowledge. So who can guide one whom God misguides? And they will have no victors.He also advises us not to follow/cause to follow what we have no knowledge of
1736 And do not follow/cause to follow what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.
We should also consult with our fellow colleagues about their understanding and then follow the best of it. We should ask Allah for guidance as only Allah can guide us and we should put our trust in Allah. Allah will judge us according to our actions and understandings and I am sure He will take into account our limitations.
4238 And those who have responded to their Lord, and they uphold the contact-method, and their affairs are conducted by mutual consultation among themselves, and from Our provisions to them they give.
3159 It was a mercy from God that you were soft towards them; had you been harsh and mean hearted, they would have dispersed from you; so pardon them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult them in the matter; but when you are convinced, then put your trust in God; God loves those who trust.
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
3955 And follow the best of what has been sent down to you from your Lord, before the retribution comes to you suddenly when you least expect it.3147 And they did not say except "Our Lord, forgive us our sins and our shortcomings in our responsibility, and make firm our foothold, and grant us victory over the rejecting people."
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Don't you think that this understanding (asking people of the Quran) lead people to the Mol-Vs, Imams, Pir, Holy man and into the folds a monastic believe. I myself see people having questions are going to these people who are not helping them. Perhaps you should give me an example/cheracter of the people of remembrance. Who are these?
peace.
ahluzzikr would be include anyone who can remind using the koran . it doesnt have to be mullahs and Imams, Pirs etc. . they hardly ever quote from the koran.peace.
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Peace darbari. Some of the peole who remind with the quran justify hand-choppings,floggings,sex slaves,blind irrational beliefs etc... Are these the people of knowledge?
peace all. -
Peace darbari. Some of the peole who remind with the quran justify hand-choppings,floggings,sex slaves,blind irrational beliefs etc... Are these the people of knowledge?
peace all.peace.
hand cutting is the punishment for theft and flogging for adultery . sex slavery is wrong concept . what blind irrational beliefs ?they are ppl of zikr if they dont contradict the zikr .
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Peace darbari. Hand-cutting and floggings are irrational beliefs in todays society,as are some of the inheritance laws,marriage laws,laws of dealing with non-muslims,scientific and moral incompleteness of the book,historical contradictions etc.. The belief in everthing being from god,yet evil being from ourself is irrational and contradictory when interpreted traditionally. How do we know when the zikr(reminder.) is contradicted? What is the criterion for judging the book itself? (i hope your not going to say the book judges itself? ! shock D .)
The language of the quran is sometimes obscure,unclear and limited.
peace all. Ps;what is salat and hajj in this clear book? D -
salam.
Peace darbari. Hand-cutting and floggings are irrational beliefs in todays society,as are some of the inheritance laws,marriage laws,laws of dealing with non-muslims,scientific and moral incompleteness of the book,historical contradictions etc..
people might consider hand cutting and flogging irrational . i dont care . what has it got to do with "ahluzzikr" ?
The belief in everthing being from god,yet evil being from ourself is irrational and contradictory when interpreted traditionally. How do we know when the zikr(reminder.) is contradicted? What is the criterion for judging the book itself? (i hope your not going to say the book judges itself? ! shock D .)
u are not asking for the proof again , or are u ? ?
The language of the quran is sometimes obscure,unclear and limited.
peace all. Ps;what is salat and hajj in this clear book? Dsalat is the 'daily prayers' . i havent studied hajj yet . and have to study salat properly .
salam.
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Peace darbari. So you dont know what haj is or what salat is properly,yet you believe in all the verses of the book? Why? Isnt this believing without study or verification, ie blind belief? Im just making you aware of something,not insulting you. )
Peace all. -
Peace darbari. So you dont know what haj is or what salat is properly,yet you believe in all the verses of the book? Why? Isnt this believing without study or verification, ie blind belief? Im just making you aware of something,not insulting you. )
Peace all.Salam
Exactly! Thats what I am trying to say that we have to consult the people who know, so that we can have our problems solved. Going back to the people who know the Quran is OK, but these experties are not restricted to people who know the Quran. I think people of remembrance can be anyone, because anyone can remember lol . If it say people of furqan than I will think about people who have the knowledge to judge, and eye for detail etc etc, which obviously has to include the Quran as it is furqan (Criterion) from the Creator who knows.
Anyway most of the translators have translated "the people who knows".
And we will stick to that, as it makes perfect sense.Peace
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Peace darbari. So you dont know what haj is or what salat is properly,yet you believe in all the verses of the book? Why? Isnt this believing without study or verification, ie blind belief?
how is it blind belief ? i dont believe in any particular understanding of hajj . but i believe that the book is from God . cuz that is the first thing that i studied .
what u are saying is like "since u havent studied a topic of a particular book , hence the book cannot be from the author that it claims to be from ." !
peace.