Destiny of those praying 5x towards the cube?
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peace.
Peace eq. I do not think its fine at all. Millions are praying to the stones
which prayer exactly is directed towards the kaaba ?
(worshiping to be more correct). The result of this is nothing is being achieved. No commitments but worship (wasting time). I think this is important because from being most advance and knowledgeble muslim are just like dust nowadays.
so nowadays praising Allah is a wastage of time ?!
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the direction you are praying is not haram, now if you go and pray in the cube it would be i believe, I dont go in sunni mosques, because they are not devoted to God ALONE as they should be. But those are 2 different things praying in a direction and actually praying to the cube. Praying to the cube would be, your intention is 'i am praying to the cube' than it can still be idol-worship at home. But if your intentions are about praying to the Lord then you are not praying 'to the cube'.
peace
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Peace,
First Faith then prayer.
It Does not help even if trillions pray.
PRAYER BRINGS NO FAITHFULL! It never has and it never will.
FAITHFULL BRINGS PRAYER! It is utterance of love toward the UNLIMITED, in faith , in action, in contact-prayer.About the cube, first read the book that I referred to.
Cube is the historical connection of many generations of faithfulls starting with ABRAHAM and those who followed the path of oneness.
peace -
Hello
Kaab means ankle ,
Kaaba means Kaaba , and is a name of something, like my name and your name
the two words are totally different, the first is mascular and the second is feminine
Cheers
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Salaam,
I myself has defended the Kaaba and the traditional view of the qibla, i had many and many discussions about it with Ayman on 19.org. I even found a whole history on buildings like the Kaaba, that you can read on 19.org.
http//19.org/forum/index.php/t/5479/0/
But i told Ayman in our first discussions with his article how it came to this also on 19.org that no history or archeology can prove us right or wrong, only the Quran can. And the Quran proved me wrong, our concept of Salat in the traditional sense is not correct, the Quran of God doesn't refer directly to prayer as we think. People we say we follow the Quran of God alone, but we are still carrying the sunni-ways without knowing. As Ayman shows in his article what's in the name, that we can jump and twist, but it is the Quran of God that explains the meaning of Salat, not any history or dictionary.
Ahmed Ali on the meaning of Salat
Salat as As-sala meant middle of the back, a horse that is second in a race, and as salia-wastala dependence, adherence, attachment. In the Quran salat acquired the conceptual meanings of devotion, adherence to God and His commands, fulfilling one?s duties and obligations as behoves an ?abd, creature, servant, devotee of God, as integral part of ?ubudiyat, servitude and devotion, made clear in 2441 which underlines that every creature in the heavens and the earth knows its salat, duties and obligations.
The Quran, thus, brings to the mind its real objects from words by invoking the images imbedded in the subconcious. For though the words remain the same, they often acquire new conceptual meanings and new dimensions lying hidden in their roots, which are brought out by the Quran, and now form part of its linguistic and intellectual dynamism. At the same time they become removed from the Jahiliya which was more of an attitude of mind and culture than a state of ignorance, as well as the later world as unfolded by the changing patterns of history, thought and language, so that anyone interpreting the Quran on the basis as used by Arabs today would only misled the readers of the Book.
It is about what the Quran gives as examples, and we can only look it from the Arabic point of view, no translation will show you the right meaning, except when it uses crossreference as showing examples. Also this can make people wrong conclusions. But i also went through a long line of adapting, my mind wasn't ready yet for the truth. I went from 5 prayers, to 3, then doubting if it shouldn't be 2, then after reading Ayman's article, i saw what he meant. What he saw the Quran tells us. I don't agree with Ayman on his view of 19, but i also disagree with most people who believe in 19 on how and why it is there, for me it is only an alarm system, nothing more and nothing less, and that Rashad had so many things wrong doesn't say nothing on 19 itself. Just like the Quran of God is seperate from Muhammed, so is 19 discovery loose from the discoverer. Ayman did wrong, what i did wrong with the discussion on "the Kaaba", he brought in history and outside information, instead on focussing what is really inside the Quran of God.
But on the Salat issue i believe Ayman has hit the spot, so if people want to discuss about Salat, then try to discuss Ayman's article, if you want to prove you're right or wrong, see if you agree with Ayman or refute him, but then you have to show proof. I still believe in prayer and i meditate a lot, but my only direction is towards God, no landmark. And i do it when i need or want it, and how i want it. This is logical from a scientist, realist, philosophical and free thinking mind. From a mind that believes God doesn't need anything and wouldn't demand anything that doesn't directly help you or can't be defined by logical and rational thinking, and God shows prayer is not limited to some times a day, and the use of the word Salat inside the Quran of God shows it doesn't mean a 'special'prayer. That is it what it is all about, so all our concepts of 'we need salat', first check then what Salat is.
But this is what the Quran of God explains it self. It doesn't need me or Ayman. We have to remember that all of our words we use in daily lives, are programmed in to our brain from day 1. In most countries, the word succes means, good job, wife, 2 kids, 2 cars, 2 times a year on holiday. When it rained, your parents looked outside, and said it is bad weather, so from there on, the concept 'rain' and 'bad' are connected forever inside your subconciousness, until you realise you never judged rain yourself, it was already judged for you. Our concept of 'fun' is determined by your culture, for example in Holland, 'fun' is getting drunk and don't rememberring the next day what happened, and hearing from your friends that you walked on the bar and puked on the bouncer, and then everybody laughs. this concept of 'fun', wasn't really by choice, it is something you get drawn into. A drug becomes normal, when it is accepted by your surroundings. Smoking was normal 10 years ago, so the concept of 'smoking' didn't had a 'wrong' feeling, no it is a taboo. We get programmed by our surroundings, we are thaught what prayer is, what words mean, what the concepts are behind it. This also applies to the concept 'salat', 'islam','deen','hajj', and so on.
We were programmed what it should mean, and even though we know we can only accept the Quran of God as guide, we still kept the traditional concept of Salat, so we looked for that concept that we were thaught in this world, instead of looking what the Quran of God says what the concept is, how God means what the concept is. We are obliged to drop our pre-programmed concept of rain is bad, salat is prayer, and see what rains means to us, what the Quran of God says what God Himself means with Salat.
This discussion is futile, till everybody understands this. We can twist and turn what we want, but we are only fighting the Quran of God then. Read the article of Ayman yourself, and see the differences between our pre-programmed concepts and the concepts given to us by God.
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm
Let God programme our concepts, that is really Islam......
This what God tries to tell us with His Quran, to re-programme our concepts of freedom, law, equality, status, truth, faith, obligations, society structure, rights, behaviour, our concepts of afterlife and death, magic, spirits and so on. This is Islam, dropping our pre-programmed concepts and refreshing our subconciousness witht the real concepts. Most of our concepts are filled in by previous dogma's and doctrines of ancient times, most rituals were 're-programmed' by the elite and clergy, and replaced it, and by thus hiding or loosing the original concepts God tried to show us. Hell is living a lie, not a furnice in the afterlife...........
Peace
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peace arnoldyasin. I agree almost totally with your excellent post...But,i believe its not just the quran we should refer to. Reality(God.) is the true guide. Our concepts can be overturned and corrected by reality,(God.) which is not limited to just the quran. Does not god speak and verify to us through nature,conscience and mediums outside scripture?
peace all. -
Yes, i only talk about the things that are discussed/given in the Quran of God. Those concepts must be explained by the Quran of God itself, just like i said, judge rain yourself, that is a concept you will not find in the Quran of God, but only will find in Nature. I never said anything about those concepts you mention to be found only in the Quran of God, i only refer to our concepts that are mentioned inside the Quran.
So i believe you 'filled' in what you believe i said yourself wink .
The Quran of God only explains the concepts it mentions, all the rest is for us to explore........
Peace
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Peace arnold
please be aware, I only responded to the argument regarding Kaab and Kaaba from the language point of view, to be honest bro I read all what Ayman wrote just for curoisity, but the whole subject does npot concern me the slightest because when I perform Salat I only do it for Allah, i never thought of the Kaaba once while performing salat for all the years i can remember
if the Kaaba now days is fake, i'm sure the Quran would have mentioned it,"or at least indirectly" and all the evidences from the Quran strongly suggest that it is not a fake, what I can agree that is fake is the many hadith about the prophet, other than this bro the Quran alone people has been refuted fairly and squarly using the Quran and they never responded with a convencing reply, the argument against them is clearly the prophet was not only a delivery man and even if he was, what he was delivering never mentioned explicitly as the Quran only, in fact there are many verses that clearly say the prophet had other explanations to do
peace mate
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Peace arnoldyasin. I am not criticising you brother, just making an observation. ) I believe that the concepts in the quran cannot always be verified internally. I verified what salat in the quran could mean from my life-experience,not just from verses. if i understand you,then you are saying the qurans concepts can only be understood by reference to itself. That may work for you,but for me many times it does not work and can be a long-winded route to understanding.You can verify gods universal laws from life,without the quran.
If i have misunderstood your position i stand corrected and apologise.
Peace all. -
Peace,
I understand both of you, and i agree with both you to a certain level, but i also stay in the middle, and AB, if you investigate more on why and and how rituals developed in societies, you would understand me the concepts were copied from each other, not the truths, but also prove then Ayman is wrong on this, you say the Quran says something, show it please....
Peace
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Thanks eq and arnoldyasin. Really a good post. To want to clerify further, I understand that facing something as a direction does not mean one is worshiping/serve an idol or one really is, or the worshipers does not even know. Also what are is the impact to the entire Umah? Please think about the whole Umah not just yourself who prays 5x. As an umah we have faild! Also see atricles on the front page of Free-minds.org
An interesting fact is God command us to serve not to worship. For us to serve we have to focus on masjid-al-haram the restrictions within the system. Because when we focus on these we are setting up a balance/harmony within the system (the yen-yang, the Tao's, Buddist Confucious (pbuh lol ), igologies and following the Quran). Just facing and praying 5x a day this (serving God here on earth is not being achived), as we can see our state today million are rushing to hajj for what? Billion are worshiping/praying 5x in one direction but for what? One can't face a point on the globe anyway, as there isn't one! Also in the masjid-al-haram there are signs of Abrahim, that he only serve one God (the main one), yet if one looks at the man-made structure around the cube there are no signs there (how can there be signs in the structure)? It funny they have put foot prints of Abrahim there.
Hence facing a point (which is not a point as the earth is not flat!) praying/worshiping 5x a day, going to hajj, kissing the black stone, spinning around the cube, thinking that all sins are forgiven is clearly wrong. This worshiping/praying rituals have given a false confidence to the majority of the muslims. They think that this is their utmost duty, however just SERVING God by paying attention to the haram things in submission will change and improve our existance.
Peace
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Peace,
I understand both of you, and i agree with both you to a certain level, but i also stay in the middle, and AB, if you investigate more on why and and how rituals developed in societies, you would understand me the concepts were copied from each other, not the truths, but also prove then Ayman is wrong on this, you say the Quran says something, show it please....
Peace
Yes bro i did a lot of investigation and reading on how ritusals devevloped and affected socities, i can see this in every cultural and every religion, in many cases it is clear corruption, but the truth will always shine bro, i mean it will be easy to find but only for those whom Allah will remove the veil that is covering them then guide them to that truth, ironically many conflicting opinions think that they are the ones who are truly guided therefore the best and only Judge must be Allah, i guess everyone of us is sort of taking a gamble, many have good reasons to go in a direction and others have absolutely no merit to go with another direction, at the end of the day it is one hell of a tough test for all of us, I always say it this way, the toughest thing in life MUST be the belief, because i don't think that Allah has created all these things that we see or not just to serve the purpose of that test unless it is a damn hard test, therefore the safest bet for me must be following the Quran as literal as possible unless it states or clearly understood otherwise, this way I may have a strong defence argument "if allowed" in the judgment day, because what I followed was what it said as literal as possible, and that is what most words in any language should be taken and understood unless we are playing some dsort of puzzles and only the ones with high IQ will win, which does not sound fair neither equal
a simple example is this, if i want any one not to smoke in my car, i will tell that person "please do not smoke in the car" and I will be serious about it, this is how I see Allah is talking to us in the Quran brother, no tricks and no games, and if there is any, it will be very few verses "Mutashabihat" just to serve the purpose of testing that apply for both the believers and the unbelievers equally, see how the test is tough?, even we are tested in the belief in the Quran
peace mate
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Hello All
to Suggest that Al Masjid Al Haram is haram things in submission is basless and has no ground indeed, and surely sounds funny as well, sorry lol
Cheers
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Salaam,
Yes, AB, i also used to think like this, and i recommend read more wink
No, i understand you perfectly, it is indeed hard, is this symbolic or literral? But still then, is mine concept of this literal subject pre-programmed or do i have a clear judgement on it? These are sometimes hard questions. And i believe in time we will understand more Godwilling.
But AB, i am a scientist and a theologist, if you refute something, saying it sounds funny is not enough........proof please proof...........Otherwise you act just like Oneway.....
And bmbmm, i agree, The Quran of God is not just a 'religious' Book, it is a way to perfect societies. When we investigate concepts as given in the Quran of God, we see it is indeed a ?omplete' Book on subjects we need advise on. But letting go of the pre-programmed concepts is the hardest thing in life. Nothing tests you more then letting go of pre-programmed concepts, i have seen this in human history, look at how long the church held on the earth is flat theory and the earth is center of universe theory, you can see it in science with intelligent design or not. Most debates are not about truths, but about if people are able to see it is about reprogramming your view. i have seen in my own life also, i have been the most stubborn person in certain pre-programmed concepts, now i am finaly reprogramming myself with being open, using the Quran of God and other information. Balanced conviction and open mind are bridges to higher selfs, bridges to God...
So i never judge anybody on their beliefs, everybody is in their own fase of understanding....
Peace -
Hello All
to Suggest that Al Masjid Al Haram is haram things in submission is basless and has no ground indeed, and surely sounds funny as well, sorry lol
Cheers
Salam Ahmed,
Saying that its a mosque (building) around the cube doesn't hold any water either.
The structures built, nowadays called mosques were built for worldly knowledge and discussions. Nowadays a twist from serving God to worhiping him has turned these into monastic-monastries or temples, like all other religions (not the Dinn) does. Its stanage that people go there follow a man and do exercise in a language that they don't even know, although it is memorised by some.
Ahmed if you say masjid-al-haram is a mosques there was no such a building at the time of Mohammed, which is a historical fact. If its something to be focued into why a masjid (strucure) rather than the cube?
What signs of Abrahim are there according to your understanding?I think we should critically with an openmind analyse the Reading, rather than following the pagan-Arabs understanding of the Arabic of times passed by, before and after the revelation to Mohammed.
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Salaam,
Yes, AB, i also used to think like this, and i recommend read more wink
No, i understand you perfectly, it is indeed hard, is this symbolic or literral? But still then, is mine concept of this literal subject pre-programmed or do i have a clear judgement on it? These are sometimes hard questions. And i believe in time we will understand more Godwilling.
But AB, i am a scientist and a theologist, if you refute something, saying it sounds funny is not enough........proof please proof...........Otherwise you act just like Oneway.....
Peace
Peace Arnold
Bro i don't act like anyone but myself, and I responded to this masjid silly argument and was refuted fair and square some time ago and sure no one responded to it, for me to keep posting it will just sound as funny as the argument itself, but i will give it one more go for your sake, and btw i only talk by the arabic quran, no hadith no crap
good to know that you are a scientist, on the other hand I'm a Civil Structural Engineer, as well a Systems Engineer and always fascinated with science and read many books in this category, i.e. what i learnt in life is ONLY based on logic and common sense and this must be the case with you as a scientist which makes me more comfortable to discuss any matter with you
i will come back in a minute with my refute to the silly allegation regarding al masjid al haram, but will respond to any of your replies to it tomorrow as i'm just about knocking off to bed
and please don't put me in the same category as oneway, i actually consider this an insult but i forgave you
talk to you soon
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Brother bmbmm, sorry mate i will repsond to you tomorrow as i have to knock off now, i haven't read your comment yet actually but noticed it is directed for me, so talk to you later as i'm really tired
for brother arnold, here it is
I believe the word ?Masajid?, ? ?, was mentioned 6 times and it is the plural of ?Masjid?, ? ?, let?s have a look at all locations and see if we can collect any clues for its meaning, I used Shakir translation (note I kept the word Masajid UNTRANSLATED?
And who is more unjust than he who prevents (men) from the Massjid of Allah that His name should be remembered in them, and strives to ruin them? (As for) these, it was not proper for them that they should have entered them except in fear; they shall meet with disgrace in this world, and they shall have great chastisement in the hereafter.
(114)
-> We have three clues in here
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prevents (men) from the masajid of Allah that His name should be remembered in them?, i.e. it sounds like a place that some wrong doers will try to prevent the name of Allah to be remembered INSIDE THEM
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? and strives to ruin them? ?, i.e. those wrong doers will try to ruin these Masajid, which suggests it is a place to be ruined
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?it was not proper for them that they should have entered them except in fear?, i.e. those wrong doers shall enter the Masajid in fear, again it suggests that it is a place to be entered
It is made lawful to you to go into your wives on the night of the fast; they are an apparel for you and you are an apparel for them; Allah knew that you acted unfaithfully to yourselves, so He has turned to you (mercifully) and removed from you (this burden); so now be in contact with them and seek what Allah has ordained for you, and eat and drink until the whiteness of the day becomes distinct from the blackness of the night at dawn, then complete the fast till night, and have not contact with them while you are in retreat in the Masajid; these are the limits of Allah, so do not go near them. Thus does Allah make clear His communications for men that they may guard (against evil).
(187)
-> We have one clue in here, which is simply a warning to the believers ? and have not contact with them while you are in retreat in the Masajid; ?, i.e. not to contact their wives while they are Aakifon Fi Al Masajid, i.e. in retreat inside the Masajid, again it suggests that it is a place where the believers can retreat inside it
17- The idolaters have no right to visit the Masajid of Allah while bearing witness to unbelief against themselves, these it is whose doings are null, and in the fire shall they abide.
18- Only he shall visit the Masajid of Allah who believes in Allah and the latter day, and keeps up prayer and pays the poor-rate and fears none but Allah; so (as for) these, it may be that they are of the followers of the right course.
(17)
(1-> Two clues
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? The idolaters have no right to visit the Masajid of Allah?, i.e. it sounds like a place not to be visited by the idolaters
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? Only he shall visit the Masajid of Allah who believes in Allah and the latter day?, again it sounds like a place to be visited by the believers, I guess the word visit is the wrong translation by Shakir, I believe it should be ?to develop? as this is the closest in meaning to the Arabic word ? ?, ?Yo?Ammer?
Those who have been expelled from their homes without a just cause except that they say Our Lord is Allah. And had there not been Allah's repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and Masajid in which Allah's name is much remembered; and surely Allah will help him who helps His cause; most surely Allah is Strong, Mighty.
(40)
-> We have two clues in here
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? there not been Allah's repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and Masajid?, i.e. it is a sort of erected building that can be pulled down, like cloisters , churches and synagogues exactly, and in these places
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? in which Allah's name is much remembered?, i.e. Allah name should be remembered INSIDE THEM, again sounds like a place to me
And that the Masajid are Allah's, therefore call not upon any one with Allah
(1
-> Not much of a clue here other than the verse tells us ? the Masajid are Allah's?, it sound like they are His properties, possibly some may say this verse means the status of submission is for Allah, but this can?t be because the status of submission was mentioned as follow in the Quran
And they who pass the night prostrating themselves before their Lord and standing.
(64)
-> See, to describe the status of prostrating the Arabic word is ? ?, pronounced as ?Sujodda?, another word to describe those who prostrate themselves before Allah is ? ?, pronounced as ?Al Sajidoon?, as seen below
They who turn (to Allah), who serve (Him), who praise (Him), who fast, who bow down, who prostrate themselves, who enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, and who keep the limits of Allah; and give good news to the believers.
(112)
-> The word ? ?, pronounced as ?Al Sajidoon?, may be ? ?, pronounced as ?Al Sajideen?, depending on Al Irab and Tashkil but both means the same as seen below
He said O Iblis! what excuse have you that you are not with those who make obeisance?
(32)
And when Allah ordered us to strive for this status of submission He told us the following
Therefore celebrate the praise of your Lord, and be of those who make obeisance.
(9
also when the magicians were defeated by Moses stuff we know what they did
And the magicians were thrown down prostrate;
(46)
Therefore the status of prostrating is either one of the followings according to the Quran
- ? ?, pronounced as ?Sujodda?
- ? ?, pronounced as ?Al Sajidoon?, Note Al is not compulsory
- ? ?, pronounced as ?Al Sajideen?, Note Al is not compulsory
AND NEVER THE FOLLOWING
? ?, pronounced as ?Masajid?, which is the Plural of ?Masjid?, ? ?, the singular ?Masjid? appeared about 22 times in the Quran, in all locations it means a place to worship Allah, and in many other locations it was specific to which worshipping place Allah is talking about, I brought in a couple of verses as an example and we will see clearly that it means a place to worship Allah in it
107- And those who built a Masjid to cause harm and for unbelief and to cause disunion among the believers and an ambush to him who made war against Allah and His Messenger before; and they will certainly swear We did not desire aught but good; and Allah bears witness that they are most surely liars.
108- Never stand in it; certainly a Masjid founded on piety from the very first day is more deserving that you should stand in it; in it are men who love that they should be purified; and Allah loves those who purify themselves.
(107)
(10-> Subhana Allah, verse 9107 is a very Muhkam verse as far as I can see it, it actually tells us about things we see now days, it tells us about the improper use of these places of worshipping Allah ? those who built a Masjid to cause harm and for unbelief and to cause disunion among the believers?, this is a hard core fact that we can see it now days, we can see clearly the word BUILT, i.e. Masjid is something to be built to worship Allah in it, and Allah is warning us not to go to these places of worshipping that are improperly used ? Never stand in it?, then He is telling us that we should go to the places where ? certainly a Masjid founded on piety from the very first day is more deserving that you should stand in it;?, can you see the word ?FOUNDED?, in Arabic ? ?, actually the foundation of any building is called ? ?, I?m a Civil Engineer and I can assure you that this is what a foundation of a building means in Arabic, I understand that Allah is using this as a metaphor, as the foundation of a place cannot be really ?founded on piety?, but the message is clear, that there are many places that are built on real foundation and footings inside the ground to worship Allah but it is actually used to ? cause harm and for unbelief and to cause disunion among the believers?, hence Allah is telling us that the real foundation for a place to be built is ? founded on piety from the very first day? , and we can clearly find these good places where Allah is truly and honestly worshipped because we will find inside them ? in it are men who love that they should be purified?
I rest my case
Peace to all
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I found this comment that i did for brother bmbmm before which in the same subject, please brother bmbmm, respnd to it with some elaboration, but please bear in mind, i'm only debating the meaning of the masjid, i'm not willing YET to get involved in the subject where masjid al haram is located, but I will get into it later after a do some Quran reading, i only use the Quran in my replys, no hearsay, no conjecture, no hadith, no self opinions
Peace bro bmbmm, I was reading your comment then just stopped here after dicovering a major flaw in that part
so you said "The root word ?Sahara? means ?To cast a spell or to bewitch?.", which I agree
then you said "When somebody is bewitched a prefix ?Ma? is appended to the root, which becomes the ground form of the verb ?Mas-hur?.", this is totally wrong
to express that somebody becomes the ground of any verb it must be on the following wazn "Maf'ool", in arabic it looks like this "", this will make the "Sahara" verb looks like this "" and pronounced as "Mas-hor?", as you can see I replaced the U with an O and this makes it pronounced properly
Now Masjid is NOT on the wazn "Maf'ool" it is on the wazn "Maf'al", which looks like this "", please go and ask all the arabic speakers in the world whom you know and trust, but possibly you won't because you think that the arabs manipulated the languaged hey lol
now if you can also manage to ask them how to derive a noun for a place from a root, they should tell you it must be on the wazn "Maf'al" "", EXACTLY AS THE WORD MASJID
you got it totally wrong bro
peace
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Salam arnoldyasin.. good post
Salam Ahmed,
Can you have your intelectual input rather than cutting and pasting from the Quran?
The thing is masjid here. Its not a building/structure its the state of submission e.g
"We have one clue in here, which is simply a warning to the believers ? and have not contact with them while you are in retreat in the Masajid; ?, i.e. not to contact their wives while they are Aakifon Fi Al Masajid, i.e. in retreat inside the Masajid, again it suggests that it is a place where the believers can retreat inside it"
The above is not refering to a structure it is in the state of submission (commitments!), also by focusing on the restriction in the submission!
If you do not want to Serve/Commit to God and rather to choose Worshiping/Praying go ahead as there is no compulsion in the Dinn. And please, please do not cut and past from the Quran, I want your intelectual input, as we are scientists.
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Salam Ahmed,
Salam bro
so you don't want me to go to sleep?
Can you have your intelectual input rather than cutting and pasting from the Quran?
no bro, i only talk by the Quran, and intellect has nothing to do with it here, i guess the stupid ones will be the ones who talk without the Quran or the ones who manipulate its crystal clear meaning
but that is what most of my debaters say because surely they can't repsond to the Quran verses
why not refuting the Quran verses uysing your intellect and show us?
The thing is masjid here. Its not a building/structure its the state of submission e.g
"We have one clue in here, which is simply a warning to the believers ? and have not contact with them while you are in retreat in the Masajid; ?, i.e. not to contact their wives while they are Aakifon Fi Al Masajid, i.e. in retreat inside the Masajid, again it suggests that it is a place where the believers can retreat inside it"
The above is not refering to a structure it is in the state of submission (commitments!), also by focusing on the restriction in the submission!
If you do not want to Serve/Commit to God and rather to choose Worshiping/Praying go ahead as there is no compulsion in the Dinn. And please, please do not cut and past from the Quran, I want your intelectual input, as we are scientists.
how about the other verses?
pick and choose what is easy to play with hey?
good night mate, i have nothing to say to you regarding this masjid subject, i have let the Quran speak and refuted you fair and square, youe weakness is obvious by suggesting to me to bring something but the Quran
if you mean my intellect, well it seems you totally lost it in here because all the walk through between the verses is my own words using my bloody intellect
salam