The Quran and the Prophet
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Peace Saffy,
When the flame of Faith is ignited, one searches for scriptures and WORD of GOD automatically. I know many people of Faith that after being broken by life, GOD gave them the grace of Faith after finding them sincere and straightend from inside. This Faith drove them toward the scriptures. So I am not denying Quran. I am telling you that Faith is a heart-issue and not a book issue.
If this is true then why did God bother to send the message via the Prophet Muhammed? Doesn't the quran contain the criterion of right and wrong? God instructs in the quran regarding all the important areas of our life which is acceptable to HIM. Please can you explain how we achieve this just by simply observing Nature, or by using the bible as a guide which claims God has a son or by any other means than by the quran. Thankyou
peace,
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Peace all. Faith/true belief is definately a heart/conscience issue....not just a book issue. The answers/insights manifest within you,when you truely listen to how your conscience deals with a situation. And remember beliefs should lead to good,positive behaviour.
Peace all. -
I found, from all the good answers above, the following concepts.
- Religion Allah sent all His prophets, from Noah to Muhammad, with the same religion.
- Revelation Allah reveled the same message to all His prophets.
- Consciousness and judgment This is the prime source of faith and the prime regulator of behavior.
- Faith and behavior This is the outcome of consciousness and judgment, and is the manifestation of a definite pattern of life.
- Scripture One who believes in Allah, logically looks for a scripture containing Words of Allah.
Which scripture?
Am I free to choose any scripture on random basis? Should I take Geeta or Upanishad or Bible or Quran or all of them together? Should I take one without question from my forefathers? Or should I apply my judgment to take one or all?How wide is the sphere of religion?
I see that life has diverse aspects. I can feel, I can know, I can judge, I have anger, I desire sex, I need wealth, my father left property when he died, we need to do something with the dead body of the deceased one, we need pen, paper, ink, sword, we need political organization etc and etc. Should I govern all my life by the religion or a part of it leaving the rest to the will of others as their subject? -
Which scripture?
Am I free to choose any scripture on random basis? Should I take Geeta or Upanishad or Bible or Quran or all of them together? Should I take one without question from my forefathers? Or should I apply my judgment to take one or all?ofcourse you are, as the verse above spelled out. However you have the Quran, and you know its the last update. Howcome you dont read that then? I mean if you need to ask....
How wide is the sphere of religion?
I see that life has diverse aspects. I can feel, I can know, I can judge, I have anger, I desire sex, I need wealth, my father left property when he died, we need to do something with the dead body of the deceased one, we need pen, paper, ink, sword, we need political organization etc and etc. Should I govern all my life by the religion or a part of it leaving the rest to the will of others as their subject?I dont think anyone here is relegious to be honest. But we govern our life after the universal laws, that are to be found in Quran. Anything, and everything you need to know regarding the above subjects is avaible in Quran. If something is not in Quran, it wasnt important enough for GOD HIMSELF to want to tell us, and then we need to use our senses and mind.
peace
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Peace magi,prashant-kumar and all. Magi,i do disagree slightly with your analysis my good brother. I believe the universal laws can be found just by life-experience itself,and the quran or any other books can be useful but are not absolutely needed. The books are just mens ideas of universal law codified in written form...You and me can learn from these ideas but we can also come up with these ideas ourself,and even correct/ improve/up-date these ideas ourself,or even come up with new ideas.. ) Most of the books contain some wisdom,but we have to check them for mistakes and find the truth for ourself. I dont believe the quran is the last or best or most complete book..Its just a potentially good book for some....A book is only as good as the reader....Some of the bai-hullahs book has some more relevant ideas than some of the quran has for todays society/context/circumstances.The quran can be used as a kick-start to thinking and acting morally,but not as something that you refer to obsessively or uncritically,or to the exclusion of other knowledge.The quran is not the final word on everthing,nor the best word on everything. The quran is a good book for some,but not all.
Prashant-kumar;I believe you can take all the books you mentioned,or concentrate on mostly one, or even none. ! It depends on your own judgement and general knowledge of the world. I have read some versions of the hindu philosophy,and i think some of them are superb. ! !
Brahman=atman is one of the greatest,if not the greatest, insights you will ever find in any religion.
I think all religions and scriptures have common themes and wisdon in them,but also misinterpretations and mistakes in them...I dont recommend to follow the mistakes or disproven ideas in the scriptures or from religion. )
The method i use is to try to continually filter all knowledge through my own conscience or verification process.(and also correct any mistakes in my understandings/insights about life.) The rules of religion are not all absolute (eg inheritance laws,burial rituals,marriage laws etc..) ,error-free,or relevant to today society/circumstances...,we have to take into account the wishes and feelings of others and the circumstances/context. The most important thing is to try to make the most overall peace/respect/benefit to all people/beings you can... in all that you do,whilst following the truth/your heart...,Even if this means breaking customs or doing things differently from our parents and peers..
peace all. -
Peace magi,prashant-kumar and all. Magi,i do disagree slightly with your analysis my good brother. I believe the universal laws can be found just by life-experience itself,and the quran or any other books can be useful but are not absolutely needed
No we actually agree fully bro (as pr.usual it seems). Maybe i should have used the phrase...can ALTSO be found in...instead
some really good points in your post.
peace
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Peace Magi. Im glad we agree,especially as i feel we are both independent,inqusitive minds. . Must be a cosmic connection. !
Thanks for your kind words. -
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Peace darbari. I thought you had to submit to god to be a muslim. Are you equating your god with the quran?
Peace all. -
Peace darbari. I thought you had to submit to god to be a muslim. Are you equating your god with the quran?
Peace all.peace enquirer.
we submit to God by submitting to His commands in the Quran . we obey Him by Obeying the messenger . and the messenger delivered the Quran . -
I believe the universal laws can be found just by life-experience itself, and the quran or any other books can be useful but are not absolutely needed. The books are just mens ideas of universal law codified in written form...You and me can learn from these ideas but we can also come up with these ideas ourself, and even correct/ improve/up-date these ideas ourself, or even come up with new ideas.. Most of the books contain some wisdom, but we have to check them for mistakes and find the truth for ourself. I dont believe the quran is the last or best or most complete book.. Its just a potentially good book for some.... A book is only as good as the reader.... Some of the bai-hullahs book has some more relevant ideas than some of the quran has for todays society/context/circumstances. The quran can be used as a kick-start to thinking and acting morally, but not as something that you refer to obsessively or uncritically, or to the exclusion of other knowledge. The quran is not the final word on everthing,nor the best word on everything. The quran is a good book for some, but not all.
I see the ultimate destiny of taking the life-experience as the supreme source of knowing the universal laws. From my life-experience I have got the following universal laws
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Fight, by means of might and tricks, all weaker entities who belong to the category ?NOT ME or NOT MINE? to snatch their property, possessions to enjoy it by yourself.
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Escape, to survive, from the stronger ones when they attack pursuant to the principle 1 above.
I got confused. Every modern philosophy and religion has got some name and some definite structure. But it seems that the ?God Alone?ers are not in agreement in any definite structure of ideology, source of knowledge, principles for making decisions. One takes Quran as a source and at the same time other says the contrary. One says Quran is from Allah, other says no to it.
I am not getting your points. Is it all about hearing ones own mind only and knowing ?universal laws? as personal experience? Does Logic have any validity in your school of thinking?
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Peace prashant-kumar. True conscience and direct experience of 'universal' laws is logic,my friend. . We all use our conscience at times,whether we admit it or not,the trick is to try to use it rationally all the time. Do whats best for your own conscience my friend. )
Peace. -
Peace Elke. I cant say its my phrase,..i took it off another poster. ) But its a very good quote,i agree.
peace. -
peace prashant_kumar and all, is this really the only universal law that youre capable of observing? So you not see the harmony in the planets in their computed orbits. Do you not see the universe in yourself? Do you not see the animals applying the very basic of harmony? Yes they have survival of the fittest, to ensure bad genes get weeded out, but they always adapt to the area they are in. With a few exception that are just that, exception.
Man is the only thing that we are aware of, who can chose to be in harmony with all, or chose not to. As of now, we have chosen not to be, wherever we go we multiply insanely, and utterly destroy the very foundation of our lifes.
you dont see animals attack out of spite, only survival. You dont see animals kill because a bear is more of a believer than a deer, only becaue the bear is hungry.
and it goes on. Harmony is adapting to the situation youre in with the environment, humans are given this as free choice, and thus we have chosen to be utterly ignorant, perform silly rituals, out from the silly notion that God is a person. A god person, who gets angry, and fierce etc.. while at the same time the scripture tells us that allthat happens to us, will be OUR OWN workings comming back to us. Terms such as punishment have little meaning if you do not understand, that YOU are the problem AND the solution.
To view survival of the fittest in this negative light is to me silly and extremely narrowminded. Ciggy, it is good to see you )
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Peace all. Some laws that work for me in my direct observation and life-experience of the world;
a)The strong should protect/educate the weak.
b)deflect,defuse and try to enlighten the stronger ones who seek to attack/oppress you or the weaker members,pursuant to principle a)... winkBeautiful quote magi;
'Terms such as punishment have little meaning if you do not understand that, YOU are the problem AND the solution'. idea idea idea
peace all. -
understanding the Quran is not enough. muslim means "submitter". so u will have to submit to the Quran to be a good muslim.
we submit to God by submitting to His commands in the Quran. we obey Him by Obeying the messenger. and the messenger delivered the Quran.This point I missed. A muslim is he who submits to Allah. Submission to Allah means accepting the entire Quran as Allahs message and applying it in entire real life activities.
Now in order to be muslim one need to read and understand the Quran. Otherwise how can one apply it in life?
Is it not correct that the Quran should be treated as the prime and first source of knowledge required to prosper in life as a Muslim? I am not denying other possible sources, like rational thinking, listening to heart and consciousness, natural sciences, history etc.
However you have the Quran, and you know its the last update. How come you don?t read that then? I mean if you need to ask....
It?s a pretty nice and strong appeal from rational point. I am reading the Quran. But I am having some problem with it that I wish to discuss with you all.
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Peace prashnt-kumar, all,
Quran very often invites us to look to at the book of nature and get a good sight of creation!
Many think that Quran means to think about it , so they go thinking while sitting in a room!! !Going through book of creation by walking in it and watching it, affects one,s heart. it elevates the level of consciousness. It creates a sense of AWE. The reason that two of the prayers are placed close to sun rise and sun set is to get aware of the mightyness of creation and its rythm. It elevates the belief into faith.
peace,
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Peace and greetings to alpha97 and all.
The Quran invites us to look at the Book of Nature. Does it imply that we should look into the Book of Nature, putting aside the Quran, for all the universal laws that govern human life and its destiny?
The Quran invites us to look into the Book of History too. It does not, too, imply that we should put aside the Quran and look into the Book of History to find out there from all necessary universal laws that determine our future.
And we shall follow the laws we come up with the Book of Nature and the Book of History and we shall consider our discoveries as the final. Or we may follow those laws with a skeptical attitude for future rectification. Is this it you want to say?
From your argument I see that you look at the Book of Nature because the Quran said so. So you actually took the Quran as the primary source. It may also have a different implication as mentioned below.
I may put forward an argument from the Book of Nature to prove a law of the Quran while the Quran is my prime source. I can also do the contrary. I may take the Book of Nature as the primary source and put forward an argument from the Quran to justify this.
Are you putting the argument from the Quran to prove that the Book of Nature is to be taken as the prime source where from we shall derive all the universal laws? And the Quran shall be ignored or rejected if we get at a law from the Book of Nature that contradicts the law of Quran.
We do not put our students straight in the labs to discover the universal laws by themselves when the laws are already discovered and discussed. There are good reasons for it. If I get the laws in the Quran, why shall I wait for the scientists to discover the laws and take the risk of falling into errors of the scientists?
My question was not whether Quran asked us to look into the Book of Nature. My question is regarding the priority between the two Books. Which is to get the priority? Do you think that all the ontological truths and laws that govern human life and its destiny has been discovered successfully by the readers of the Book of Nature? Do you think that it has been possible by the intellect and logic?