Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
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Peace mate ;D ,
Thanks for your advice mate
but i was talking to an enemy of Allah and was using his language that is based on a man made god or a non existance of A GOD and when i use it in the context I never means the true God "Allah"
so please stop picking on these small things as Allah knows what i meant exactly
Salam
JK- Sorry for the misunderstanding. Actually these thoughts came into my mind "maybe bro AB means it in another way...hmmmmmm..concept of GOD very crucial and important hence must be clarified... Im sure he cannot be doing this deliberately..must be a language problem...(after my post was done).. oh maybe he wanted to show the false concept of a god from enquirers perpsective...damn post already done...maybe this is not true...so leave post for now and await reply...then apologize if necessary). Sorry bro. GOD Bless!
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Zenje; I am a very happy man my friend
Good for you! You keep saying it but... -\I see you avoided or couldnt answer the last two questions and resorted to immature attempts at humour.
Which ones?... If my god loves people or something?... you actually thought that warranted an answer? please. )
Your response to the question of whether people are insincere if they try but fail to get a consensus from the quran,which you answered yes they are insincere,shows the potential for idolisation of quran and inhumanity...
Are these new words that you learnt?... you use them like their new and totally out of context. Can you use the word 'inhumane ' in a sentence children?Which im glad the rest of the forum is now aware of... And i suggest you think about what role peoples happiness(even those from outside your superior/arbitrary group.) plays in your religious interpretations/dogmas.( justified from allah,of course. .)
There you go with your judgements again, man you have ego and a half... and that's not an attept at humor, since you have to look out for it and it seems to give you some trouble finding it.It's funny you mentioned that though, I was thinking the same thing just yesterday. I'm really glad these numerous posts from you and some others are bringing out the true colors in you. I have never pretended to be anything else. You on the other hand, started out with a nice and, dare I say it, tolerant position... but now?... Dr. Jekyll is gone for good, your hatred for quran and all those who follow it is blooming quite nicely. Why the pretense in the beginning, I wonder? Ah well, keep going my friend, maybe you'll reveal some more. I love it! ;D
Peace to those who follow the guidance.
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Peace brothers and sisters,
Look at these posts enquirer used to write at the beginning.
this is my first post after a year of reading at this site. i applaud the efforts of the people on this site and thier positive contribution to understanding our obligations.
Ah.. humble beginnings. '(I have been reading the dialogue on free-minds for about a year now. I too struggled with the understanding of salat,masjid al-haram,hajj etc. But after extensive patient research these topics are now much,much clearer. I feel very satisfied that several forum members have similiar conclusions even though we are from diverse backgrounds.
What a nice guy!Peace ahmedbaghat. I agree there are many acceptable and unacceptable behaviours in the quran. A basic principle is that the prohibited is what is not beneficial/healthy for mankind and the permitted is what is beneficial/healthy for mankind. (quran;7157).
What's this?.. enquirer agreeing with AB?!...about prohibitions?!...in quran?!Peace ahmedbaghat and idol-free. your understanding of the angels speech ,ahmedbaghat is one i agree with.
We need a fainting emoticon.I think the heading 'contradictions and inconsistencies' is perfect! ;D Maybe 'Exposed', would have been more fitting.
Good Night and Good Luck
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Peace
Hope this helps... I'm copying out the explanation from my trusty Qur'an (translated and explained by Muhammed Asad) Regarding 478 and 479...
There is no contradiction between this statement and the preceding statement that "all is from God". In the world view of the Qur'an, God is the ultimte source of all happening consequently, all good that comes to man and all evil that befalls him flows, in the last resort from God's will. However, not everything that man regards as evil fortune is really, in it's final effect, evil, - for it may well be that you hate a thing the while it is good for you, and it may well be that you love a thing while it is bad for you and God knows, whereas you do not know. (2216) Thus many an apparent evil may sometimes be no more than a trial and a God Willed means of spiritual growth through suffering, and need not necessarily be the result of a wrong choice or wrong deed on the part of the person thus afflicted. Itis therefore obvious that the evil, or evil fortune of which this verse speaks has a restricted connotation, in as much as it refers to evil in the moral sense of the word that is to say, to suffering resulting from the actions or the behaviour of the person concerned, and this in accordance with the natural law of cause and affect which God has decreed for all his creation, and which the Qur'an describes as the way of God (sunnat Allah) For all such suffering, man has only himself to blame, since "God does not wrong anyone by as much as an atom's weight" (440)
Hope that helps
Peace -
Peace 99percentcow (?)
Welcome to the forum. )Thanks )
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Peace all
I'd like to talk about 262 and 569 being 'in opposition' with 319 and 385, as enquirer mentioned.
Absolutely, these are not in opposition with each other. In fact, arranging them together is a very good idea.
Since enquirer failed to even bring forth the actual verses, I'll post the literal translation. Let's look at 262 and 385
That those who believed and those who repented/guided/Jews , and the Christians and the Sabians/converts , who believed with God and the Day the Last/Resurrection Day, and made/did correct/righteous deeds, so for them their reward (is) at their lord, and no fear/fright on them, and nor they be sad/grieving.
And who desires/wishes other than the Islam/submission/surrender (as) a religion, so (it) will never/not be accepted from him, and he (is) in the end from the losers.
Looking at 385, we can ask "What is considered Submission? What do I need to do to be a Submitter?"
And 262 clarifies that; to be a Submitter, one must
- Believe in God
- Believe in Resurrection Day
- Do righteous deeds
So the Christians, Jews, etc. who believe in God, Resurrection Day, and do righteous deeds, are indeed Submitters. The same goes for 319 and 569. It is that simple.
It's amazing how to one person, these two verses are 'in opposition with each other'; while to another person who is sincere to the Qur'an, one verse helps clarify the other.
Enquirer, I'd greatly appreciate you engaging in an actual discussion with me about this. I'd be very happy to do so. From what I've seen so far, you have claimed something, then when someone wanted to discuss your claim, you avoided it and insulted them. It seems you aren't here for discussion; but perhaps for other reasons. ???
God willing, you'll actually start discussing. After all, this is a forum.
Peace
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Peace all,
to bilal - why do you look at western societies and say that quran is the remede ? shouldn't one start in front of one"s door ? well; i guess this is my western self being touched...may be i got contaminated by this great discussion )
99percent - thanks for trying to come back to the subjet.
lk
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Peace mr zenje. The posts i wrote over a year ago reflect my understanding that some posters do indeed use the quran wisely,rationally and for human betterment...not taking it as an an idol,or an unverified book of dogma to refute people who do not subscribe to it literally...I still feel there are several members who are doing a great job,and some of those who are sometimes dogmatic still produce the occasional good post.(even ab etc.. ).) But there are some who seem to use the quran and allah as a crutch/justification for their own sectarian and egotistical desires,and in doing so contradict their own book...(see 62;5 my friend.) Ironically some of those people claim to have broke free of the shackles of hadith,only to run to the next shackle of the literal quran...
I agree i have had to take a more forthright stance on certain issues and posters...this is because i believe that some of you are making a mockery of the quran,humanity and civilisation. I dont hate any of you guys or the quran,but im sure im entitled to point out what i see as immoral interpretations?....
Mr zenje,i see that your definition of 'brothers and sisters' or 'nice guy' is purely on your arbitrary sectarian criteria...i also see that you and others have not refuted the verses i claimed were inconsistent when taken literally...I am glad that people of your intellectual incompetence have no real political power,and that western liberal democracy(although not perfect.) stops people of your mentality from propogating your extremist,illusional,inhumane,sectarian pipe dreams. What does it feel like to claim you have god on your side,yet be so irrelevent?
Peace all. -
Peace all,
to bilal - why do you look at western societies and say that quran is the remede ? shouldn't one start in front of one"s door ? well; i guess this is my western self being touched...may be i got contaminated by this great discussion )
Peace Elke and all,
Maybe it's me who have a bad image of the american society.
Violence, drugs, cult of money, excessive consummation of foods and soda, cult of body, suicide, etc...
I think that the solutions are in the quran.
the society can't reform herself if any persons don't take conscience of their responsability.
but we must not to take quran like idol but take the great idea in consultation with the experiences and reasoning power of anybody work to the peace.
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Peace mquran. Its contradictory because it first says everything is from god,...and then says that bad is from us. The only way this is resolved is if we are god. D ? idea
If you want to post the literal translation,feel free,but i wont waste my time spoon-feeding you verses. Im sure you know the verses (as do many others.),so you or anyone else quote whichever version of verses you want.If you take in any way,,,,Allah says that He does not guide the people of unjust.
The people who already have decided to find some points to disgrace the religion of Allah, then Allah will put them blind,,,they wont understand anything then...physically seeing and spiritually blind. And if one seeks guidance with humbleness then Allah guides him and helps him...
So the condition is your wish,,,you wish to be bad...Allah will curse you with blindness of as apposed to wisdom.
What can you expect from a person who does not want to learn but is asking and arguing just to do some satanic exploitaion? It will be certainly his fault.
And despite all,,,,if Allah decides about a person to put him in hell for no reason...even then it is his right....as we are his creation,,,our life is also his property,,,,But he will not put you in hell without reason....Because he is Absolute Just.
Even then if he puts you to hell,,,then what can you do?? Can you fight the Almighty? Can your rubbish abuses disgrace the Almighty, the Absolute and Eternal???
If you know the verses that Allah does not guide "Zalimoon" then you better find those verses which tell that why Allah does not guide such and such people....I hope you will find why he does not guide them..
If you fail to find then I will try to compile the list of verses.Regards.
VirtualEye. -
Peace all. Magi makes a very good point. If verse 4;82 states that if the quran was from other than allah there would be many contradictions in it.
Then this means any book without an obvious contradiction can be claimed to be from god...Salam enq
another desperate attempt by another clear cut Allah rejector, 482 never said the above quote in red, i guess it is Magi's perosnal man made god who said so
please stop twisting the quran verses trying to make a silly point, the problem you and magi can't see is this, you are not really challenging us (the believers), you are chllenging Allah Himself, man, good luck with that
Salam
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peace thegod. Ok,if allah along with others can know what is in the wombs,what is the point of emhasizing allah knows what is in the wombs?
Hi
haven't read what thegod responded by but I like to say something, your limited understanding to the Quran verse about Allah knowing what is in the wombs is way too narrow (this tells me how open minded you are), the verse does not mean Allah knows what is in the wombs from the sex point of view (male or female), the verse never suggested even that exclusivly, it has more global meaning mister smart, it means He knows everything about or will happen to what is the wombs, including sex, age, and everything in the entire life or after life to what is in the wombs, and sure humans can never know that
let me use danish words "slam dunked"
Salam
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Peace ab. You are living in a fantasy world ab. Humans can know now what is in the wombs before a baby is born nowadays...or do you deny this?
Why does allah say in the quran(in 3;142 and many other verses.) that allah needs to know or doesnt yet know who are the believers or the non-believers?
What is the test and judgement for if he already knows?
Why did he ask iblis why he didnt do sujood to the angels if allah already knew?
If allah knows things in advance,then they are already fixed,and so allah thus has no free-will and cannot change the future...
Slam-dunked...I think not... -
Peace all. I will repost a previous post in this thread as nobody seemed to tackle it...which should have been easy given some people have gods perfect clear words available in book form...
'What about the quran saying that allah doesnt change his ways(or sunnat or laws.) and then jesus being born without a father,adam with no father or mother,a stick turning into a snake,the splitting of the sea into two firm mountains,jesus speaking as a baby,fire not burning abraham,jonah in the belly of a whale etc...
Can you all confirm and verify these events literally?...( remember 17;36.)Also all creatures are supposed to do sujood to allah alone,and yet allah asked the angels to do sujood to adam?...
Allah supposedly never commands indecency,yet abraham is asked to sacrifice an innocent son?
If you take these verses literally you make the quran contradictory and inconsistent...
Please explain these verses...and danishes' posts as well.
Peace all. -
Peace all. Anybody who wants to call someone else an allah-rejector or an enemy of allah should realise its not allah we reject,but your ideas,concepts and illusions about allah. ) Many atheists only reject an illogical concept about god,but still follow their natural god-given morality... Allah,god,khuda,buddha mind,great spirit,conscience,akbar,brahamn,atman,bhagwan,science,universal law,enlightenment,universal conciousness,nirvana,divine soul etc... whatever words you want to call it,it is not important that you just pay lip-service to the words,worship the words,or argue over the words...but its vital that you implement and follow the natural,verified,true individual (though universal.) paths to peace...
Words are only a description of a reality or realities...Follow the realities,not just the words...
Peace all. ps;is the word apple the real item,or a description pointing to the real apple?... -
peace all,
Why this inconsistency? Is this because of translation or a memory lapse?
Peace bro
I reached page 8 or 9 and found a few comments by you with alleged contradictions, not sure what is your point?, I thought one with a solid belief like you and have the wisdom of being over 40 should know all the answers to all these silly allegations that some of them are laughable indeed, a child can easily refute many of these silly allegations, and as you guessed it, it is because of translation or a memory lapse but as well due to ignorance, arrogance, hatred to Allah and possibly many other psychological reasons, let me prove it, not sure if any other sincere Muslim responded to these alleged contradiction however here my voice been added to them
In the first example you have posted, the Quran says the good guys will receive their books in the right hand, while the bad guys will have their books behind them
Right hand or back
Sura-84 (Al-Inshikak)
7?Then whoso is given his account in his right hand
8?He truly will receive an easy reckoning
10?But whoso is given his account behind his back,
11?He surely will invoke destruction
12?And be thrown to scorching fire.Here is the Arabic verses
(7)
( 8 )
(9)
(10)
(11)
(12)Well, let me ask you first, did the Quran said the good guys MUST receive their books in the right hand?, as well did it say the bad guys MUST receive their book behind them?, I?m sure it didn?t, it was only telling us about mere two directions where a possible delivery of the books to the good and bad guys, but it never suggested that they will not receive it from other directions, now we have many directions, we have indeed at least 6 directions
- left and right
- Up and Down
- Front and behind
From the above we can say that whoever will receive the book from the right direction will be considered a good guy and whoever will receive the book from behind will be considered a bad guy
Now, you are suggesting or at least you don?t know why it is contradicting with the following, which suggests that the good guys will receive the book from the right direction and the bad guys will receive it from the left direction
or
Right hand or left
Sura-69 (Al-Hakkah)
19?Then, as for him who is given his record in his right hand, he will say Take, read my book!
20?Surely I knew that I should have to meet my reckoning.
21?Then he will be in blissful state
22?In a high Garden
25?But as for him who is given his record in his left hand, he will say Oh, would that I had not been given my book
29?My power hath gone from me.
30?(It will be said) Take him and fetter him
31?And then expose him to hell fire
32?And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits.Here is the Arabic verses
(19)
(20)
(21)
(22)
(23)
(24)
(25)
(26)
(27)
(2
(29)
(30)
(31)
(32)Well, I can?t see any clear cut contradiction between the verses, all the verses above told us that the good guys will get the book from the right direction and this does not violates 847, but for the bad guys it says they will get it from the left direction and not from behind as stated previously in 8410
Excuse me sir, this will be a clear cut contradiction if it says the bad guys will receive the books from THE RIGHT DIRECTION as the good guys, however it never said so, it only added another direction to where the bad guys will receive their books
i.bloody e. from all the above verses
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the good guys will receive their books from the right direction
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the bad guys will receive their books from the behind them as well from the left direction, this inclines to me a sort of grouping the bad guys in two groups, the ones who will receive it from the left direction and the ones who will receive it from behind
No contradiction so far, but you also said it contradicts with the following verses which suggest the bad guys will receive their books (before them) i.e. from the front direction
or placed before you
Surah 18 Al-Kahf
49?And the Book (of Deeds) will be placed (before you); and thou wilt see the sinful in great terror because of what is (recorded) therein; they will say "Ah! woe to us! what a book is this! It leaves out nothing small or great but takes account thereof!" They will find all that they did placed before them and not one will thy Lord treat with(49)
Excuse again sir, 1849 NEVER suggested a direction to where the bad guys will receive their books from, THE WORDS (BEFORE YOU) is a clear cut addition and does not exist in the Arabic text, the Arabic words is clear , i.e. ?The Book was Put Down?, ?down? does not mean any direction, it means the books are brought in for them to see, it never suggested any direction or how the books was delivered to them
Therefore the above can?t be a clear cut contradiction and the allegation must be thrown in the rubbish bin for good
You also posted another allegation of another contradiction
or light or heavy
Surah 101Al-Qari'a
6?Then he whose balance (of good deeds) will be (found) heavy
7?Will be in a life of good pleasure and satisfaction.
8?But he whose balance (of good deeds) will be (found) light
9?Will have his home in a (bottomless) pit.Here is the Arabic verses
(6)
(7)
( 8 )
(9)The above is suggesting the following
The winners are the ones who will have heavy weights (good deeds), and the losers are the ones who will have light weights (good deeds).
Now you believe it contradicts the following verses
Surah 23 Al-Muminun
102-Then those whose balance (of good deeds) is heavy they will attain salvation
103-But those whose balance is light will be those who have lost their souls; in Hell will they abideHere is the Arabic verses
(102)
(103)Far out man, truly laughter is good for you but now it is getting really silly, hold on bro, I have to call my young daughter and ask her if 23102-103 contradicts with 1016-9
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Ok man she said 23102-103, are suggesting the followingThe winners are the ones who will have heavy weights (good deeds), and the losers are the ones who will have light weights (good deeds).
Now here is again what 1016-9 suggested to us
The winners are the ones who will have heavy weights (good deeds), and the losers are the ones who will have light weights (good deeds).
Can you please compare and tell me where the hell is the contradiction?
I have to use Danish words again ?Slam dunked?
Peace
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Peace ab. You are living in a fantasy world ab. Humans can know now what is in the wombs before a baby is born nowadays...or do you deny this?
LOL
mister smart, did you read my comment or you pretended that you have done so?, it seems you didn't read it really, i know that humans can bloody know the sex of the baby before it is delivered, i did so with my two children mister smart
what I bloody said, that the verse was never exclusive to knowing the sex of the baby, it is about knowing everything that will happen to the new baby including the future
mister smart your IQ level dropped beyond recognition
I can give you a few IQ points of mine, i have plenty
Salam
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peace all .
Peace all. I will repost a previous post in this thread as nobody seemed to tackle it...which should have been easy given some people have gods perfect clear words available in book form...
'What about the quran saying that allah doesnt change his ways(or sunnat or laws.) and then jesus being born without a father,adam with no father or mother,a stick turning into a snake,the splitting of the sea into two firm mountains,jesus speaking as a baby,fire not burning abraham,jonah in the belly of a whale etc...
Can you all confirm and verify these events literally?...( remember 17;36.)enquirer, are u afraid to quote the verses ?