Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?

zenje

What does it feel like to claim you have god on your side,yet be so irrelevent?
Did I? There you go with the putting words in other people's mouths thing, to preach your agenda. You know, you really don't have to, you've already proved yourself a hypocrite.

Peace darbaari,

why dont u just quote the verses ? if u are having trouble finding the verses , this might help http//www.submission.org/quran/webqt.php
He has already denounced the book many times. (Note the hypocrisy - Most of his posts when he joined are filled with quran vers numbers and references.) Here's some verses that talk about his kind...

And if Our revelations are recited to them, they Say ?We have listened, and if we wish, we could have said the same thing. This is nothing but tales of the ancients!?
And if Our clear revelations are recited to them, you see hatred in the faces of those who have rejected. They are nearly close to attacking those who are reciting to them Our revelations! Say ?Shall I inform you of what is worse than this? The Fire, which God has promised to those who have rejected. What a miserable destiny!?
He hears God?s revelations being recited to him, then he persists arrogantly, as if he never heard them. Give him news of a painful retribution.
And if he learns anything from Our revelations, he makes fun of them. For these will be a humiliating retribution.

Isn't it amazing that a "1400 year old book" talks of people in this era?

And isn't it even more amazing that a person who holds his conscience as his god, claims that other people who follow God and His words are egotistical?

I personally believe our conscience is our god.

Have you seen the one who has taken his ego as his god? Will you be a caretaker over him?
Have you seen the one who took his ego as his god, and God led him astray, despite his knowledge, and He sealed his hearing and his heart, and He made a veil on his eyes? Who then can guide him after God? Will you not remember?

savage_carrot

Enquirer- Emotional outbursts do you no good. Address the issues if you can.

Fahad1

Peace all. I will repost a previous post in this thread as nobody seemed to tackle it...which should have been easy given some people have gods perfect clear words available in book form...
'What about the quran saying that allah doesnt change his ways(or sunnat or laws.) and then jesus being born without a father,adam with no father or mother,a stick turning into a snake,the splitting of the sea into two firm mountains,jesus speaking as a baby,fire not burning abraham,jonah in the belly of a whale etc...

You mean these verses?

1776-77 And they nearly frightened you to drive you out of the land. But in that case, they would have shortly been destroyed after you were gone. This is the way of those whom We sent before you of Our messengers. And you will not find any change in Our way.

The sunnat of Allah here is that ?they would have shortly been destroyed after you were gone? . there is no change in this sunnat .

3543 Arrogance on earth, and evil scheming. And the evil schemes only backfire on those who scheme them. Were they expecting anything different from the ways used on the people of the past? You will not find any change in God's way, and you will not find any bypass to His way.

Sunnat of Allah in this verse is that ?the evil schemes only backfire on those who scheme them? . there is no change in this sunnat .

4822-23 And if the rejecters had fought you, they would have turned and ran, then they would have found neither an ally nor a victor. Such is God's way with those who have passed away before, and you will not find any change in God's way.

The sunnat of Allah in this verse is ?if the rejecters had fought you, they would have turned and ran, then they would have found neither an ally nor a victor.? . there is no change in this sunnat.

How does this sunnat contradict with these events u mentioned

'What about the quran saying that allah doesnt change his ways(or sunnat or laws.) and then jesus being born without a father,adam with no father or mother,a stick turning into a snake,the splitting of the sea into two firm mountains,jesus speaking as a baby,fire not burning abraham,jonah in the belly of a whale etc...

the three verses I posted above do not say that Allah will not do any thing extraordinary .

is there a contradiction here ?! tell us .

Can you all confirm and verify these events literally?...( remember 17;36.)

What do u think 1736 says , please tell us .

I was under the impression that some on this forum quoted 1736 to make sure you verify/know something before you follow it...Is that correct? Ie; 'Dont follow that of which you have no knowledge'?

yes , and the koran is the knowledge .

276 Verily, thou receivest the Qur'an from the One Wise, All-Knowing.

any thing or event that is mentioned in the verses of the koran is the knowledge . so 1736 is about things outside the koran .

your claims are not supported by 1736 .

looking forward to your reply .

viartualeye

All mankind doesnt speak arabic, and few people who didnt grow up with the language will ever master it to a degree where "evidence" such as linguistic quality makes any sense.

Here is one more stupidity of Magi..

Is there a worn inside you which does not let you stay calm? If god has used arabic language then what is problem whith you?

unknownuser

I dont have a problem with it at all. I have a problem with retards who claim that one language cannot be translated into another, with full meaning avaible.

savage_carrot

Good post Fahad, hope we will see some 'attempt' from the OP at least...

viartualeye- I hope you can read Magi's response, I think he has clarified himself, no need to call him 'stupid', infact if you want you can take a lesson from 'enquirer' and call posts stupid, we won't think the person is, promise!

Fahad1

Good post Fahad, hope we will see some 'attempt' from the OP at least...

thanks Nadia . i would love to see that 'attempt' .

unknownuser

Peace darbari. ok,you say these sunnat of allah are specific to just those verses,so i wont discuss that with you...(im sure many 'quran only' would disagree,and it would be nice of them to explain the verses if they think/agree that allah does not ever change his sunnat or laws.) Ok,then explain those list of strange literal occurences like a stick turning into a snake,virgin birth etc,etc...
Most especially what does sujood to adam mean when you should only do sujood to allah alone? Any takers?...

agentxxx

peace all,
post deleated.

unknownuser

Peace agentxxx. My brother i find your honesty and humbleness very refreshing.You seem to be on a path to discovery and learning. Reality is a great 'teacher' and destroyer of 'illogical' interpretations.A true message from god is never unclear to a sincere mind...I dont think anybody needs so-called strong 'beliefs'...They need open-minds,strong verified practical universal logic,and practical good morals...
Take it easy and peace. Ps;you have a very mischievious sense of humour...when is our first cricket match,boss?...

agentxxx

peace enquirer,

Peace agentxxx. My brother i find your honesty and humbleness very refreshing.You seem to be on a path to discovery and learning. Reality is a great 'teacher' and destroyer of 'illogical' interpretations.A true message from god is never unclear to a sincere mind...I dont think anybody needs so-called strong 'beliefs'...They need open-minds,strong verified practical universal logic,and practical good morals...
Take it easy and peace.

peace and God bless

Ps;you have a very mischievious sense of humour...when is our first cricket match,boss?...

thank you and we can start playing as soon as this thread ends

sorry brother i got all mixed up i thought it was sis s-c, i am sleepyyyyyyyy, ??? i got it right now.

peace.

savage_carrot

Peace bro agent,

It wasn't me...I'm currently writing a post to you ;D

agentxxx

peace sis,

I realised after the post -[

God bless you,
peace.

unknownuser

Enquirer- Emotional outbursts do you no good. Address the issues if you can.

Good morning sister, the enemy is now tryin to stir the air between the both of us

I'm sure he will fail because we are brother and sister but he is not our brother

Salam

savage_carrot

Peace bro agent,

Sis here are some of the inconsistencies that I find hard to comprehend, please note that I have never claimed to be an intellectual, I am just an average humane being

I think you would find it strange for someone to claim to be an intellectual here without being quite emphatically put down from different fronts, so no worries.

I wish I was like you, brother ahmed, brother zenge and all other bros/sisters on the forum who have a very strong belief, unfortunately my own understanding stands in my way. I cannot pretend to have a strong faith in the book because that would be hypocrisy. So I try to be honest to myself as well as the others on the forum and express my views in the light of my own understanding of the book at the present moment.

Please don't try to be like someone else, you are what you are and that is what makes you unique. We all have our doubts and being honest about it and trying to learn is quite enough as it is.

Let me see if I can try and help resolve these issues that are problematic. I'll address what I can and in some places link you to previous discussions about it as more opinions with evidence are better than just one. I'm sure others can help as well. It is friday night and I would like to take in a movie as well )

2426-

Alkhabeethatu lilkhabeetheena waalkhabeethoona lilkhabeethati waalttayyibatu lilttayyibeena waalttayyiboona lilttayyibati ola-ika mubarraoona mimma yaqooloona lahum maghfiratun warizqun kareemun

The cheaters/wicked (F) (are) to the cheaters/wicked (M) , and the cheaters/wicked (M) (are) to the cheaters/wicked (F) , and the good/pure (F) (are) to good/pure (M) , and the good/pure (M) (are) to the good/pure (F) , those are being made innocent/pure from what they are saying, for them (is) forgiveness and generous/kind (reimbursement).

To me, this looks like a general principle that can be violated due to any number of reasons because of what a man or woman might choose to do. It doesn't mean that it is set in stone and that it must always happen, as a human's free choice plays into their lives. It means that these 'types' usually end up with each other but there are exceptions which are also shown. In cases of exceptions, it becomes a trial for them, just like we have any type and number of trials in our lives. Could it be that these men or women wanted to marry these people at the time and found out later what a mistake they made? We don't know the entire circumstances of their lives, but we do know that things like this happen all the time. Therefore, it becomes more important to know the people that one would want to spend their lives with and not just that but who we keep company with etc. Like the saying, 'like is to like'.

Creation-

2117-
BadeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi wa-itha qada amran fa-innama yaqoolu lahu kun fayakoonu

Creating marvelously without precedent the skies/space and the earth/Planet Earth and if He ordered/accomplished a matter/affair , so but he says to it "Be." So it will become.

5450-

Wama amruna illa wahidatun kalamhin bialbasari

And Our order/command (is) except one as/like a twinkling/quick glance with the eye sight.

I would like to state that the be is a process, not magic emphasized by 'so it will become'. This process might seem different depending on our perspectives which are time dependent. God is outside time.

Here is a thread that may help further-

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4448.0

41 9. Say What! do you indeed disbelieve in Him Who created the earth in TWO PERIODS, and do you set up equals with Him? That is the Lord of the Worlds.
4110. And He made in it mountains above its surface, and He blessed therein and made therein its foods, in FOUR PERIODS alike for the seekers.
4111. Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it is a vapor, so He said to it and to the earth Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said We come willingly.
4112. So He ordained them seven heavens in TWO PERIODS, and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars and (made it) to guard; that is the decree of the Mighty, the Knowing.

There are different vantage points regarding time and space. These periods can be pointing to them. Additionally there was some discussion about the lower heaven etc in some category recently, might I suggest a search? It is not a contradiction in any case.

4112-

Faqadahunna sabAAa samawatin fee yawmayni waawha fee kulli sama-in amraha wazayyanna alssamaa alddunya bimasabeeha wahifthan thalika taqdeeru alAAazeezi alAAaleemi

So He ordered/accomplished them (as) seven skies/space(s) in two days, and He inspired/transmitted in every/each sky/space its matter/affair/order/command, and We decorated/beautified the present world's sky/space with lights/stars and a protection/ observation , that (is) the glorious'/mighty's , the knowledgeable's predestination/ evaluation .

Is Jesus Alive?

Please refer to the link below, I tend to agree with Joe/The Nabi and Tay on this one-

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=1293.0

5156-

Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insa illa liyaAAbudooni

And I did not create the Jinns and the human/mankind except to worship Me

7179-

Walaqad thara/na lijahannama katheeran mina aljinni waal-insi lahum quloobun la yafqahoona biha walahum aAAyunun la yubsiroona biha walahum athanun la yasmaAAoona biha ola-ika kaal-anAAami bal hum adallu ola-ika humu alghafiloona

And We had created/seeded to Hell many from the Jinns , and the human/mankind, for them (are) hearts/minds they do not understand/learn with it, and for them (are) eyes/sights they do not see/look/understand with it, and for them (are) ears they do not hear/listen with it, those are as the camels/livestock, but they are more misguided, those are the ignoring/neglecting .

I do not see any contradiction. God created jinn and men so that they serve Him. They rebel/choose not to and end up in hell.

In all these, it is essential to take in all the book and it's facets to learn the most from what one verse is saying. It gives powerful concepts when put together.

I hope this has helped.

savage_carrot

Good mornin' bro AB,

Indeed, let's just all of us try to answer as much as we can, and get some good substantial discussion going. It's been a long time!

agentxxx

post deleated.

savage_carrot

Did u read my previous post? ???

Fahad1

Peace darbari. ok,you say these sunnat of allah are specific to just those verses,so i wont discuss that with you...

me say ?! i showed u the verses . thats what the verses are saying . do u agree with my explanation or not ? finish this one first , so we can move on .

(im sure many 'quran only' would disagree,and it would be nice of them to explain the verses if they think/agree that allah does not ever change his sunnat or laws.)

huh?! still insisting ? can u quote or give reference to any other such verses ?

Ok,then explain those list of strange literal occurences like a stick turning into a snake,virgin birth etc,etc...
Most especially what does sujood to adam mean when you should only do sujood to allah alone? Any takers?...

first, list your favourite "contradictions" together please . it would be better to post them in the original post of this thread .

unknownuser

Good mornin' bro AB,

Indeed, let's just all of us try to answer as much as we can, and get some good substantial discussion going. It's been a long time! D

Thanks sister

i read your reply to brother agent regarding the Zani who should marry a Zania or a Mushrika....., your answer is great, in fact this is the general rule but any rule must have an exception, in addition to your logic i have to say that many people understand this verse wrong as a law that must be applied on all generally

i actually don't see it as a law applied on us rather extra info told to us that if the zani wants to marry, most likely he will marry a zania or a mushrika (knowing or not knowing in advance) and vice versa regarding the Zania

therefore i can't take it as a law "THAT MUST HAPPEN THIS WAY" rather Allah is telling us some secrets of His complete devine knowledge

However if we assume it is a law that must happen to every zani and zania, then I don't see this law applied on the wives of prophet Nuh and prophet Lut because the verse says "Wa Al Zania La Ynkaha Ila Zani Aw Mushruik)

most importantly the quran never told us that any of the wives of prophet Lut and Nuh was "Zania", therefore the above assumed law does not apply to them

The verse was specific to whom The Zani and Zania will marry, and I never read any where that these prophets wives were as such

I will look at brother agent comment again and see if I can add something later as i kjust waked up and have a lot of huse cleaning to do D

Salam