Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
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Magi
You certainly did not understand what I am saying. It will be of no use to respond to your post.
this is so arrogant i can hardly belive it. You are telling me that i dont understand what youre are saying, but upfront decide that im not worth clarifying for. Is this a reoccuring theme that you have found somewhere in the Quran?.
peace
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;D man you were better person with Noah name. You got it wrong again.
and you are again telling me that im wrong without clarifying. So i take it that arrogance is a trait of people who really understand the Quran, right?
Its funny how people who really understand the Quran, forget the most simple instructions in all their understanding of the Quran. what happened to "when greeted with a greeting, greet better or atleast equally". Is that only for people who are in the right team?
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Hi Magi
Sorry did not greet you properly. How are you doing my friend? )
Peace
dont worry about it, you proved a point of mine well by not doing it in the context ). Dont worry. Now could you please humble yourself, to tell me why you think im so wrong?
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Magi/Noah this is so arrogant i can hardly belive it. You are telling me that i dont understand what youre are saying, but upfront decide that im not worth clarifying for. Is this a reoccuring theme that you have found somewhere in the Quran?.
I don't think this is what KGB meant. However, if he did, I do understand his frustration. This forum thanks to a great level of freedom afforded has attracted the wayward stragglers of the net. People who have nothing better to do than to heckle, to troll and to generally belittle the beliefs of others. You might not be one of them, but you do have a similar worldview to them which rejects authority. I thus wonder why you're here for al-quraan proposes authority of the messenger to the believers.
I think that at the end of the day, its ridiculous to waste time when the other party has nothing better than 'look who's talking' as his counter-response. I'm here to deepen my knowledge of al-quraan. I have much to learn and if others want some information I have, they're welcome to it as well. What I'm not here for is the type of off-handed treatment al-quraan has recieved at the hands of some people here, even those claiming acceptance.
I understand KGB's frustrations. Some of us here are here to learn, not to waste our time with people unwilling to learn.
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peace all
this thread is such a waste (of time).
I say we start a new thread, and instead of all those emotional responses and name calling, let's address each alledged contradiction one by one. Let someone post a possible contradiction and let's discuss that first and then move on to another.
I don't think a thread like this is of any use, because if we here cannot have a common agreement on what the quran says, how can we decide whether something is a contradiction or not?
too much name calling, and not enough discussion. And then there's the language. No wonder only a few people have been posting in this thread. -
For the benefit of all, I shall once again for the last time, re-post my reply #412 addressing my concerns, hence this time mquran won't have any difficulty comprehending or dodging them. I shall make it even CLEARER by highlighting in bold and underlined for him to respond to.
For example, lets take point 1
I asked Was the challenge of one surah not enough for GOD Al-Mighty?
His reply 11/14 has NO phrase 'fail to meet the challenge'. That came from the Danish's Official Storage of Lies Produced to Comfort Himself in His Rejection.Firstly, his reply is totally out of wack and not even close to what I am questioning.
Secondly, he brings about 11/14 which has nothing to do with my question. My first point was to do with the challenge itself as in 11/13 and NOT "failing to meet the challenge" as in 11/14, which is the another concern.
Thirdly, he brushes off without explaining himself regarding his own invented response.
Lastly, he brings about the extra baggage and nonsense as in italics above which again has nothing to do with the question asked.How am I suppose to move on in replying back with such disgusting and unethical way of discussion he brings about whilst boasting that he wants to "discuss" in proper manners and his mutterings about 'hit and run' and not addressing his points, resurrecting Aristotle, etc., etc.
Mquran's work is cut out by responding to the very first "underlined" statement below to begin with. If he still persists in playing games by dodging issues, brushing off without explanation, injecting extra baggage, bringing other issues irrelevant to discussion, then he's simply not worthy of any discussions with me.
Sounds like you love to mercilessly bicker for crying out loud, rather than presenting a coherent and meaningful refutation or even a decent discussion, which is your's and Ahmed's norm. Talk about 'hit and run'? You bet, scares the heck out of me from "people who tell OUTRIGHT LIES about al-quraan yet claim to believe in Al-quraan's divine origin".
What 'merciless bicker'? Why don't you address my points? Instead of bluffing your way through this discussion? If you want to bluff, put on a sunni costume and teach at a madressa. You can make up anything you like there as long as it deifies Muhammad.
Here are my points for you again, which of course you will never dare to step up to
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11/14 has NO phrase 'fail to meet the challenge'. That came from the Danish's Official Storage of Lies Produced to Comfort Himself in His Rejection.
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22/51 is from ANOTHER context, nothing to do with sura challenges.
And as for your points
Point 1 is your opinion. Nothing concrete at all.
Point 2 is for clarification. Im asking you HOW does it show weakness?
Point 3 is your opinion yet again (a substitute for hard facts, obviously).
Point 4 has been proven false due to your fallacious interpretations, thanks to your total lack of scholarship on the issue.
Point 5 I have answered. There's no possibility of meeting the challenge, according to Al-quraan.
Point 6 is false once again due to your false interpretation.
If you're genuine, why don't you disprove my corrections of your facts? Why just stand on the soapbox with nothing but soap?
Present the translations of the verses in question which YOU THINK is best and EXPLAIN them, not with surfaced fancy winks, as in, ?22/51 is from ANOTHER context, nothing to do with sura challenges.? This is neither a refutation nor an explanation to my points, but simply brushed off, and that is what is called a bluff and an empty soapbox, a rhetoric. Now read the following very carefully once again, as I am not willing to repeat and educate a thickheaded in repetitious and un-relentless manner, or else you certainly need to resurrect the scribes in 8015 who compiled the Quran in its current fashion to give you a logical answer (not Aristotle).
Now, Mr. Ahmed, you are at your liberty to bring any or all translations that exists today including the literal one (whatever that means), heck bring your own invented one and see if anyone can patch-up the above 3 verses for me in a consistent, coherent and non-contradicting fashion.
If quran is GOD?s words as allegedly claimed, then please clarify the following concerns
- Was the challenge of one surah not enough for GOD Al-mighty?
- Doesn?t the challenge to bring 10 surahs or even one for that matter, reveal weakness in GOD?s words by itself in which it speaks?
- Why the challenge in the first place? If GOD guides people whomsoever HE wills, then the question of challenge, whether met or not, shouldn?t arise? It seems a forced issue.
- If challenge is not met, then one should believe in it without incurring hell, but when one tries to challenge, one goes straight to hell. Isn?t this called, ?double standards??
- What is the reward for meeting the challenge and why?
- Why the contradiction and inconsistency?
- Once again, 8015 comes into play, as elaborated earlier.
NOTE ?people who tell OUTRIGHT LIES about al-quraan yet claim to believe in Al-quraan's divine origin.?
And here is the challenge met for not one but all ten in Arabic (with English translation on some)
http//suralikeit.com/REMINDER Don't miss out on the one underlined above, give detailed explanation to my points with authority and make sure you read the link (challenged met).
Final note I will not respond to your frustrations, bickerings, brush-offs and incomplete renderings of flowery zesty nature and your cries will simply sit and rot along with you.
I edited to insert my "quote" and "your cries".
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Danish
are you still crying bro?
ok man how about this, why not you prove to us the "Sura Min Mithlihi" means "from the language point of view only"
I'm trying to make it easy for all to understand
now if you will come without any proofs then i advice to chuck a U turn and go back to do some home work first
Thanks
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peace AB,
can you please tell me the literal meaning of the word "surah?"Peace bro
to be honest man there is no literal meaning to the word surah that I know of other than the folllowing
Surah is the feminine form of Sur which means "Fence", however there is no such thing called a feminine form of a Sur "Fence" in arabic, therefore the word Surah is unique and was newly produced to the arabic language via the Quran, and the traditionists understood it as a Quran chaphter
This is another clue actually because Mithlihi is masculine and Allah has refered to Himself using the same exact word "Mithlihi" in another verses, now we have the word Min before it then it means from mithlihi i.e. from a god like Allah if there is any, and sure Allah asked them to bring him forward if they are truthful
Peace
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peace all
this thread is such a waste (of time).
I say we start a new thread, and instead of all those emotional responses and name calling, let's address each alledged contradiction one by one. Let someone post a possible contradiction and let's discuss that first and then move on to another.
I don't think a thread like this is of any use, because if we here cannot have a common agreement on what the quran says, how can we decide whether something is a contradiction or not?
too much name calling, and not enough discussion. And then there's the language. No wonder only a few people have been posting in this thread.Peace,
I don't se it as a waste of time, but what I see is of unnecessary emotions from people who have taken it as a sensitive matter. I suggest we should carry on!
Let me remind everyone of the question Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
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Magi/Noah this is so arrogant i can hardly belive it. You are telling me that i dont understand what youre are saying, but upfront decide that im not worth clarifying for. Is this a reoccuring theme that you have found somewhere in the Quran?.
I don't think this is what KGB meant. However, if he did, I do understand his frustration. This forum thanks to a great level of freedom afforded has attracted the wayward stragglers of the net. People who have nothing better to do than to heckle, to troll and to generally belittle the beliefs of others. You might not be one of them, but you do have a similar worldview to them which rejects authority. I thus wonder why you're here for al-quraan proposes authority of the messenger to the believers.
I think that at the end of the day, its ridiculous to waste time when the other party has nothing better than 'look who's talking' as his counter-response. I'm here to deepen my knowledge of al-quraan. I have much to learn and if others want some information I have, they're welcome to it as well. What I'm not here for is the type of off-handed treatment al-quraan has recieved at the hands of some people here, even those claiming acceptance.
I understand KGB's frustrations. Some of us here are here to learn, not to waste our time with people unwilling to learn.
peace mquran
from the personal debates we have had, I know for a fact that our view on ethics are nearly the same. Our understanding of the book is altso very close. My whole life is a learning path, wich is why im still participating here. I have not forsaken the Quran, but i have taken it up to reconcideration given other knowledge that I have gained in the meanwhile. Besides that I thank that all of you have lost face in this debate, im sorry, but that is how i feel.
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Magi/Noah this is so arrogant i can hardly belive it. You are telling me that i dont understand what youre are saying, but upfront decide that im not worth clarifying for. Is this a reoccuring theme that you have found somewhere in the Quran?.
I don't think this is what KGB meant. However, if he did, I do understand his frustration. This forum thanks to a great level of freedom afforded has attracted the wayward stragglers of the net. People who have nothing better to do than to heckle, to troll and to generally belittle the beliefs of others. You might not be one of them, but you do have a similar worldview to them which rejects authority. I thus wonder why you're here for al-quraan proposes authority of the messenger to the believers.
I think that at the end of the day, its ridiculous to waste time when the other party has nothing better than 'look who's talking' as his counter-response. I'm here to deepen my knowledge of al-quraan. I have much to learn and if others want some information I have, they're welcome to it as well. What I'm not here for is the type of off-handed treatment al-quraan has recieved at the hands of some people here, even those claiming acceptance.
I understand KGB's frustrations. Some of us here are here to learn, not to waste our time with people unwilling to learn.
peace mquran
from the personal debates we have had, I know for a fact that our view on ethics are nearly the same. Our understanding of the book is altso very close. My whole life is a learning path, wich is why im still participating here. I have not forsaken the Quran, but i have taken it up to reconcideration given other knowledge that I have gained in the meanwhile. Besides that I thank that all of you have lost face in this debate, im sorry, but that is how i feel.
Salam Magi,
My learning/understanding is very similar to yours. I also agree that these guys have lost face, anyway it shouldn't matter. I suggest to all leave the emotions aside.
Let me remind everyone of the question Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
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Just a note on that silly ad hominem attack
Danish Leyla is only here to support her majnu at ANY COST. I remember the cat and mouse play some time ago.
It?s funny but I KNEW before that someone like you would finally come up with something like that.
Yes, I do value what mquran has to say a lot and I already told you that back then. I also, back then, told you why, my friend.
You may judge this in any way you like. But your judgement does not matter too much here.I am not supporting anyone at any cost. I do form my opinion of certain people out of very good material, so to speak.
I support people for what they have to say, what they stand in for and how they act in front of me.
Coming from that I have more than a billion of reasons to object to you and to support mquran.You really expose the fragility of your ways the more you have to say!
savage carrot
Thanks for your kind comments!bye,
Leyla
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"This is really a very very serious offense!"
After 30 pages here, all you can do is pop in and spit out your venom to bad mouth me, only to support your majnu with a lengthy dose, and then in the end sprinkle a lemony taste of ?no personal offence to you?. If you were sincere enough yourself, then you could have discussed and explained some of my quranic concerns instead of distracting and poisoning others by blindly believing and supporting some of the crap mquran and Ahmed talk about the same very book you believe in. Is this how you claim to support your book or do you simply enjoy favoritism, outcries and outright lies in lieu of your ?divine book?. Perhaps you come from the same akin of mquran.
Pages full of mquran?s foul-mouthed, unethical and disgraceful comments have been made throughout this forum (scrutinized his and yours past posts) up to the extent of getting banned, but not once, I repeat NOT ONCE have you confronted or condemned them. WHY? But as soon as I speak of him in retaliation, you quickly barge in to discredit me and naively support him. The word that comes to mind in your case is, a ?bigot?. This explains the justified comment I made earlier which you have sweated to defend and I will stand by it with no regrets.
Note
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Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to his or her prejudices even when these prejudices are challenged or proven to be false, often advocating and defending these prejudices in a rude and intolerant manner.
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A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions differing from his own. The origin of the word in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of religious hypocrite, especially a woman. Today, it is considered a synonym of closed-minded.
Some of your own past posts are unethical enough to put you in forefront. Take a good look at yourself and yes, it is you and your ilk that need to stop playing games and make a mockery of GOD and as well as your alleged ?divine book?.
Quran is a historical book at first to be read just like any other book. The current Quran is NOT the ?original? book by any means, let alone GOD?s Words. It is only Man?s works collectively put together. Just read its? compilation history and other relevant information at http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koran including but not limited to ahadiths without which the current Quran cannot stand on its feet (it didn?t fall from the sky or pop out of thin air).
Besides, the Quran propagates to verify all information, yet condemns those who don?t believe in it and at the same time warns us not to believe in anything else other than what it claims. How does it leave anyone to verify any information in the first place beyond being already declared and the fear of getting condemned, should the Quranic information fall short of any other verified ones.
Every word/phrase/sentence/paragraph in it has been/is being criticized by just about everyone who has read/reading it, including you, in contrasting views. Many believe it?s a word of GOD and many don?t, but the criticism continues either way. You criticize everything it says by blindly believing that it is GOD?s Words, while I criticize it in opposition and the discussion continues. At the end of the day, we both believe in it. And YES, I too believe in it for some of the truth and wisdom it carries. As a matter of fact, mankind has advanced far beyond what some verses would have otherwise subject us to, making them irrelevant to OUR TIMES.
I shall leave you to ponder upon these questions What is it in the Quran that you can?t find in any other book or in reality by which one cannot live their lives? What?s all this fuss about mquran you bring about? To me, he is merely a puppet when it comes to defending his alleged ?divine book?, regardless of his Arabic knowledge thereof, as if to say that the entire humankind must know Arabic and that GOD only speaks and understands that language? If you want to know the absolute truth, then simply put step out of it and live in reality instead of a dreamland.
Finally, why do you condemn others just the same, whether they believe the Quran to be divine or not? What difference does it make to you, mquran, Ahmed or any other for that matter?
Here are your favorite churnings
These sick bastards think they follow All?h`s true rulings and claim to believe in Him and you agree there?
Actually, personally I think that it doesn?t matter too much if you or someone else believe in the divine truth of the quran or not, as long as you live by the general and most important principles taught in the quran.
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