Umrah

unknownuser

My granddad has done hajj about 10 times.

Everyone I know that has performed hajj claim it is a priceless, unforgettable, life changing, emotional, inspirational, indescribable, overwhelming experience (no matter how much shirk they have committed ) They also say that the feeling of being there is like no feeling on earth and just being there your whole life feels meaningful.

I wonder what attracts people to that place confused, I can't wait to find out. yay

Peace,
Sugar

arnoldyasin

It has to do with psychology. They are thaught it is special, so they will create a feeling that it is special when they are there. No place on earth is more special as God is everywhere. So this has to do with the importance it is given by the tradition. When christians visit their special places, they have the exact same feeling you describe here. This is because they have convinced themselves this place is special. So they create an illusion that makes it special. All religions have their holy places, and all describe their visit in the same way. This shows they create the feeling themselves and has nothing to do with the place itself. My aunt found the shirk so horrific she hates the place.

Stitch

Salaam all,

Well, I'm going there with absolutely NO preconceptions of what to expect. I'm going there completely empty and seeking God. I'm not doing this for the ritual, but to get as physically close as possible to the sacred sites of the "religion of Abraham" and take a lot of time to soul search away from the opinions of others.

Peace,

Stitch

unknownuser

My aunt found the shirk so horrific she hates the place.

Shirk drives me crazy too (having said that I have committed plenty of it over the years -X brickwall)

The amount of shirk committed by my family always freaks me out. Even as an Orthodox Muslim the stuff they used to say (especially about prophet Muhammad) used to leave me feeling disturbed, and often keep me awake at night and at worst give me nightmares. If I still decide to go I'm sure the shirk committed there will not bother me too much coz I reckon my family commits more shirk then everybody that will be there, when I go there, put together!!

they create an illusion that makes it special

lol I always underestimate the power of the subconscious mind....

That kinda explains why zam zam water works miraculously on my family and why it tastes like the "best water in the world" ) and how spiritual healers seem to be so good at solving our problems ) our family gets conned by these "spiritual healers" on a regular basis ) my family also love imploring "spiritual healers" that are dead ) according to my mum they are "extremely powerful", my family and our local mosque also likes to celebrate the lives of these "spiritual healers" ) My mum nearly beat me up when I told her they don't work, then I told her that she "misunderstood" what I said and I told her what I "meant" was they don't work without God's will P. The stuff these spiritual healers prescribe for us can be potentially harmful and obviously don?t work, yet my family thinks that it is perfectly safe and they have 100% faith in it.

My dad said when he was on Hajj he felt like he was floating and the feeling is like being on drugs.

Peace,
Sugar

arnoldyasin

Peace,

Those spiritual healers are fake, as God tells us there is no 'magic' in this world, only illusion. And yes, most people underestimate the power of subconciousness. They create the feeling, it is not because of the place. They create as they subconciously think thay must feel a certain way when they are there..

unknownuser

although most of these pathetic "healers" claim that my family have jinn possession odd ones claims that people are doing witchcraft on us and only they can relieve it (only if you give them some dosh of course ))

Those spiritual healers are fake, as God tells us there is no 'magic' in this world, only illusion.

verse 2102

Khalifa
They pursued what the devils taught concerning Solomon's kingdom. Solomon, however, was not a disbeliever, but the devils were disbelievers. They taught the people sorcery, and that which was sent down through the two angels of Babel, Haroot and Maroot. These two did not divulge such knowledge without pointing out "This is a test. You shall not abuse such knowledge." But the people used it in such evil schemes as the breaking up of marriages. They can never harm anyone against the will of GOD. They thus learn what hurts them, not what benefits them, and they know full well that whoever practices witchcraft will have no share in the Hereafter. Miserable indeed is what they sell their souls for, if they only knew.

Yusuf Ali
They followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon the blasphemers Were, not Solomon, but the evil ones, teaching men Magic, and such things as came down at babylon to the angels Harut and Marut. But neither of these taught anyone (Such things) without saying "We are only for trial; so do not blaspheme." They learned from them the means to sow discord between man and wife. But they could not thus harm anyone except by God's permission. And they learned what harmed them, not what profited them. And they knew that the buyers of (magic) would have no share in the happiness of the Hereafter. And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls, if they but knew!

Pickthal
And follow that which the devils falsely related against the kingdom of Solomon. Solomon disbelieved not; but the devils disbelieved, teaching mankind magic and that which was revealed to the two angels in Babel, Harut and Marut. Nor did they (the two angels) teach it to anyone till they had said We are only a temptation, therefore disbelieve not (in the guidance of Allah). And from these two (angles) people learn that by which they cause division between man and wife; but they injure thereby no-one save by Allah's leave. And they learn that which harmeth them and profiteth them not. And surely they do know that he who trafficketh therein will have no (happy) portion in the Hereafter; and surely evil is the price for which they sell their souls, if they but knew.

"Progressive Muslims"
And they followed what the devils recited regarding Solomon's kingship. Solomon did not reject, but it was the devils that rejected by teaching people magic, and teaching them what was sent down on the two Angels in Babylon, Haroot and Maroot. They did not teach anyone until they would say "We are a test, so do not lose faith!" Thus they teach what can separate between a person and his mate; but they cannot harm anyone except by God's permission. And they learn what harms them and does not benefit them, and they have known that he who purchases such has no place in the Hereafter. Miserable indeed is what they purchased with their souls if only they knew!

Shakir
And they followed what the Shaitans chanted of sorcery in the reign of Sulaiman, and Sulaiman was not an unbeliever, but the Shaitans disbelieved, they taught men sorcery and that was sent down to the two angels at Babel, Harut and Marut, yet these two taught no man until they had said, "Surely we are only a trial, therefore do not be a disbeliever." Even then men learned from these two, magic by which they might cause a separation between a man and his wife; and they cannot hurt with it any one except with Allah's permission, and they learned what harmed them and did not profit them, and certainly they know that he who bought it should have no share of good in the hereafter and evil was the price for which they sold their souls, had they but known this.

http//www.submission.org/satan/evil.html

There's even a religion that practices witchcraft.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca
My school mates were obsessed with Wicca/witchcraft. I heard that the religion is more popular then Christianity. A boy I knew at school who was obsessed with history told me that Wicca was the original religion of Britain until the Romans took over and made it into a Christian country. The 1600's was a period where SO MANY women were burnt coz they were accused of witchcraft.

A freaky distant relative of mine admitted doing witchcraft on someone.

You can get loads of books, sites and magazine articles which talk about how to cast spells. I've never really tried any of that, although I have heard MANY claims that these spells work I can't say I have any solid proof to back that up.

Peace,
Sugar

arnoldyasin

These verses are translated wrong..........

The Hadithised translations have to be confusing. They present what their train of thought has predecided learning from the grand old Muhaddithin and Mufassirin like Tabari, Ibn Kathir, Ar-Razi, Zamakhshari.

Remember what Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal said, "There is no basis but absolute falsehood in three kinds of books MAGHAZI (Ghazwaat), MALAHIM (Minor battles in which the exalted prophet was not present), and the books of Tafsir."

And even the persons who claim to translate the Quran alone without outside sources, still are influenced by their background. So you have to be carefull with these things sister. God would never teach people sin! That is His law!

728 (As an example) when people commit an indecency they say, "We found our forefathers doing it and Allah has enjoined it upon us." (Made it natural for us). Say (O Prophet), "Allah never enjoins indecency. Do you attribute to Allah of which you have no knowledge?"

They commit a gross sin, then say, "We found our parents doing this, and GOD has commanded us to do it." Say, "GOD never advocates sin. Are you saying about GOD what you do not know?"

You have to look at the Quran itself. This verse is translated in the most wrong way by almost all.

So God would never send angels to teach people things that can harm others. Even their so called warning doesn'take away God would never send angels with this mission. God would never spread harmfull knowledge, plus calls it even non-sense. He calls it JIBT(see below451), which baseless magic, sorcery and so on. So the verse is translated wrong, even by the Quranaloners.....

Now look at the context

2100 (This reflects in their daily lives.) Is it not so that whenever they make a pledge with others, a party among them breaks it (and others feel liberated from their collective responsibility)? Indeed most of them do not believe in the Prescribed Way of Life.

2101 And now that a Messenger has come unto them from Allah confirming the Truth in what they have, a party among those who were given the Scripture before, cast the Scripture of Allah (the Torah and the Gospel) behind their backs as if they know not.

2102 (They followed conjecture in the past as well.) Some rebellious folk spread a rumor in the Kingdom of Solomon. Solomon never disbelieved in the Divine Laws, but the rebellious ones did. They fabricated a story that two angels Harut and Marut had descended in Babylon and taught magic to some people - and that they used to warn people, ?We are only a temptation, therefore be not oblivious to the rational Divine Laws.? The rumor further stated that people learned magic from both of them and how to create discord between a man and his wife. These things can neither harm nor benefit anyone since nothing happens in the Universe contrary to the immutable Divine Laws of Nature. And that which they try to learn only harms them and profits them not. Indeed, they ought to know that any person indulging in this trade (the so-called ?Occult sciences?) will be a loser in the long run, and shall have no portion in the Hereafter. And surely, evil is the price for which they sell their humanity, if they only knew better.

Also think if Allah would ever send angels to reveal or teach magic to people? Allah doesn't play games with His servants.

The angel of Revelation has been Ruhul Qudus, Gabriel. Harut Marut are names they had fabricated.

Ahadith further tell us that both of the angels are hanging upside down in a well in Iraq till the Day of Judgement. Why? They competed with each other for a beautiful woman Zuhra. (Are angels physical beings?)

Furthermore, as a punishment, she too has been made to hang upside down as planet Venus (Zuhra as distinct from Zahra, Fatima r.a.) Greek Mythology is the source of this tale; recall the goddess of beauty, Venus.

Did you see how our exponents put the cart before the horse and Hadith before the Qur'an?

451 Are you not aware of those who after receiving their share of the Book (Qur?an) believe in JIBT =(baseless mysteries, magic, future-telling, astrology, clairvoyance, evil eye, good and bad omens, amulets, dreams and prophecies, palm-reading, soothsaying, superstitions of all kind, jinn-possession of people, exorcism, blowing verses and senseless words on people or in food and drink, counting names on rosaries) and they believe in TAGHOOT (the evil humans who try to play God with their tyranny or with their religious exploitation as priests and monks, mullahs and sufis of any religion)? And then they claim that they, the deniers (of the Qur?an) are better guided than the believers in the Book!
452 It is they whom Allah has rejected, and there is no one to help whom Allah rejects

1077 Moses said, "This is what you say about the Truth when it has come to you! Is this magic? Those who deceive people with lies and claims of magic, never succeed."

I'll give you more information on magic later from a scientific point of view. As the so-called wicca, is just ancient pagan rituals and doesn't do anything special. They don't have magic. And EVERY religion has a certain form of sorcery. All based on superstition and lies or based on natural laws which they didn't understood then and called it magic. As for spells, it mostly 'works' because people in their subconciousness make themselves believe it worked or make it a self-fullfilling prophecy. Also it is proven in labs people can influence another through thoughts, so this is no magic, but simple capabilities of man which were always mis-understood.

Go this site for some examples
www.rupertsheldrake.org

Peace

unknownuser

wow that's interesting D o

Do you know any other verses that are translated as badly as that?

God bless.

Peace,
Sugar

arnoldyasin

Yes, this one for example....2432-33 is always approached from the wrong point of view, only freeminds came with one of the best approaches. Here is what i came up with

First we look at Nikaa meaning marriage/combining/mixing/contract/covenant/joining

BaGhA'a (as also in 1920 Bagyyaa) meaning
Sought for or after, desired, endeavored to find and take and get (good or evil)
Loving or affecting a thing
Acting wrongfully, injuriously or tyrannically
Seeking or endeavoring to act corruptingly, wrongly and/or unjustly, insolent/disobedient
Exceeding due bounds or just limits in any way
Not right, proper or fit
Prostitute or adulteress, unchaste

Tahasanun
HaSadNun
To be well fortified
to strengthen
to immunize
to secure
to strengthen one's position
to be secure
be protected
And TaHaSadNun
securing
safeguarding
protection
protectedness
See
Hans Wehr - A Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic - Edited by J. Milton Cowan (Third Edition)(183)
Furthermore, Abu Fazl and Lanes hold similar ideas on the issue of Hasuna (Ha,Sad,Nun) Giving
to fortify
to secure
to structure (a palace)

Malakat
coming from the word MaLaK
kingdom or realm

AyManukum
oath/pledge

Ma malakat aymanukum what is under your guardianship/oath

We can translate the verse from marriage point of view

"And combine/marry/bring together off those among you who are single/solitary, and from the virtious/good/righteous among your male and female servants/subordinates/workers. If they are poor/in need, then God will grant them from His grace. And God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.

And let those who are not able to find a combination(match)/not able to marry, continue to be chaste until God enriches them of His Bounty. And if those (women) under your oath/authorization/guardianship seek marriage/rights, then marry them off/give them their rights if you find they are ready/deserve it, and give them from the wealth of God which he has bestowed on you. and don't compel/drive/force your daughters/your women/young women into something that goes beyond their just rights/them feeling injustice, if they wish/desire to structure their own 'palace'(life)/protect their own 'palace'(life).
Or
and don't compel your daughters/your young women into something beyond their just rights/them feeling injustice, when they seek their own ways of strengthening their position.
Or
And don't compel your daughters/young women (in regards to their personal goals) beyond their just rights/them feeling injustice, when they seek their own independent ways of strengthening their personal position (in regards to their personal goals in life).

In order that you make a gain in the goods/In order that you seek the gains of the immediate enjoyments (hayatud Dunya). God is the One who protects and provides (from the consequences of such mischievous plans).(2432-33)

"Hayatud Dunya" has been presented to be so by Abu Fazl in his Urdu Dictionary in Urdu words as follows "Fawri Aaish", I have translated above the meaning given by Abu Fazl in Urdu to English to be "Immediate enjoyments".
God is the one who "covers them from the consequences of the plans" and "provides them", Ghafuur=
God is the one who "protects" and "provides" .Ghafuur even means "the one who protects" (Refer Gharibul Quran - Abu Fazl)(page.292). Raheem even means "the one who provides" (Refer Lughatul Quran and Gharibul Quran notes on "Rahma&quot

In the first version it is to combine the single people, so they can find a partner in love, and don't just pick out the rich. Combine the rich and poor to get a balanced society, where equality rules. And God will help them all grow then. And if they can't find a good combination yet, let them wait, and don't fall into illicit acts. And if you are a trustee/responsible over people under your care, that can mean from daughters to anyone under your authority/guardianship, then if they are ready, let them get married if they want, and help them get started. And don't force the daughters/women into situations were they feel they are being treated with unjust, things that go beyond their wishes, their permission, let them fill in their own lives. Let them decide on their own, how they want to develope. So this can apply to choice of education, husband, work, and so on. Just to please your or a family, or to uphold a tradition, or to gratify your wishes and plans you had with them, let those expectations go. Let them be individuals is what this verse tells us. Because God will protect them against the consequences of your plans.

Or if you see Nikaa in a social 'help' contract.
This is what you can see if you approach Nikaa in a social way

a) Life in a Quranic system is more social where none would be left solitary. This verse urges the Social programmers to work on providing a strong family structure for these solitaries this may be through marriage or without it. Such is because such solitaries may be a child, a lady, a woman, or even elderly citizens residing in the city.b) Quran wants various classes of the society to come forward and show their enthusiasm in helping these solitaries find their a better life.c) Quran even emphasizes that those with limited means aren't ignored in this call. This is because, there are chances that they may have something to give to some which others may not. So, let this call be generally for all, whosoever feels that he/she is well in a position to fulfill it.

2432
So get the solitaries, the solitaries of society together, combine with them/form social contracts with them, wether you are rich or poor, the virtious, and God will grant them from His Bounty. God is Encompassing, Knowledgable.

a) To continue, after going through the responsibilities of the contract (case to case) if one feels that he may not be able to do it, then let him refrain from proceeding with it. One shouldn't be demotivated for being in such a state; it is hope that takes one to the top, if one has the will to learn and strive in getting what he aims at in ways better and productive.
b) I believe that one is more a kind of Trustee when it comes for handling "Ma Malakat Aymanukum". Thus, giving back the trust to the right owners is quite important. So, of those who have responsibilities pertaining "Ma malakat Aymanukum" based on some stipulated contract, should spend of what they own of theirs if requested when it comes for establishing them in their desirable objectives. However, in case, the trustee is more worthy of defining the limits of spending then be it so.
c) Last but not the least, having had given such right to the trustees it doesn't mean that they poke nose and press things to a level that individuals tend to have nothing of their personal identity or say a opinion or even an objective regarding their future. One should understand that it is they who have to decide what they would have to do and that the job of the trustee is to guide them. So, if those under the shade of the trustee particularly the young women wish to strengthen their life in their own independent ways (this may or may not be about marriage) then they should be given all the more utilities to work on it. Let not the gliterring present deceive you in giving them their due rights.

2433
And let those who can't find a good combination (to give social help or to find social help), then refrain from it till God helps you, enriches you. And if those who are under your guardianship (Ma Malakat Aymanukum) seek their own rights (Kitaab) then give them once you believe that they deserve it and provide them with the means that God had provided you with.And don't compel/drive/force the people under your guardianship(contract) on you into something (in regards to their personal goals) beyond their just rights/doing them injustice, when they seek their own independent ways of strengthening their personal position (in regards to their personal goals in life).
In order that you make a gain in the goods/In order that you seek the gains of the immediate enjoyments (hayatud Dunya). God is the One who protects and provides/most mercifull.

andy

These verses are translated wrong..........

The Hadithised translations have to be confusing. They present what their train of thought has predecided learning from the grand old Muhaddithin and Mufassirin like Tabari, Ibn Kathir, Ar-Razi, Zamakhshari.

Remember what Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal said, "There is no basis but absolute falsehood in three kinds of books MAGHAZI (Ghazwaat), MALAHIM (Minor battles in which the exalted prophet was not present), and the books of Tafsir."

This is interesting ...

May I know from where you get the quote? I am really wondering why the so called scholars never quote that ...

arnoldyasin

Peace,

I'll find the book where it says this...

unknownuser

Hi Arnold...

verse 2070

Khalifa
The magicians fell prostrate, saying, "We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses."

Yusuf Ali
So the magicians were thrown down to prostration they said, "We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses".

Pickthal
Then the wizards were (all) flung down prostrate, crying We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses.
Shakir And the magicians were cast down making obeisance; they said We believe in the Lord of Haroun and Musa.

Sher Ali
Then the realization of truth made the sorcerers all down prostrate. They said, `We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses.'

"Progressive Muslims"
So the magicians went down in prostration. They said "We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses."

so how do you explain this? confused

peace,
sugar

arnoldyasin

Peace,

That was the title given by the people. It doesn't say they were really 'sorcerers' and could do magic.

unknownuser

peace arnold

These verses are translated wrong..........

What are your sources ( i am not being sarcastic). What do you use to come up w/ these definitions which (as you say) are wrong?

Thank you

God Bless

arnoldyasin

Peace,

From the Quran itself. For one, God never advocates sin, so He could have never send any angels to teach people sin, even if they warn them. This most important rule is ignored by almost all translators. So that is why i cannot accept the traditional understanding. Then when you look a bit better at the context, you can see what it literaly says. Those people just made that story up as an excuse as so-called proof for magic. The source which i agree with and where i got this from is Dr.Shabbir, see www.ourbeacon.com.

But i already explained everything in that post.

unknownuser

Peace,

That was the title given by the people. It doesn't say they were really 'sorcerers' and could do magic.

so what is the actual title? confused

peace,
sugar

arnoldyasin

Peace,

We also call people magicians nowadays, like david copperfield, but no-one believes this is real magic. We all know they're tricks. In those days people believed they were real magicians. So the real title would be illusionists.

unknownuser

God willing I will be flying to Arabia tomorrow yay

....but i STILL haven't packed, and I need to do more shopping and get some more sun lotion! brickwall

does any body know a cure for laziness and being so disorganised? D

peace,
sugar

arnoldyasin

Yeah,

A kick under your butt bravo

Have a nice trip sugar, enjoy it...........

God bless.

unknownuser

peace

does any body know a cure for laziness and being so disorganised?

Wish I knew, I could sure use some of that ;D