Verse 17:36 The New Idol???

thegod

idolfree1 wrote
Anything that is truthful is from the God.

let us keep this simple u said the god tells to accept nothing as truth unless it is verified, this u based on ur statement that god tells to be of those without doubt!

so how do u know without doubt that the god states to be of those without doubt? did u hear the god state that? i do not want a circular argument like 'traditions are necessary because traditions say so'!

also, is that (anything truthful is from god) the same as saying whatever is from god is truthful?

idolfree1 wrote
Therefore whatever book one reads, they must verify it through life experience, that is EXPERIMENTING, the scientific proceedure.

do u believe that knowledge increases with time? do u believe that 'science' is evolving and as such is incomplete, and that which is imcomplete is imperfect? do u then take as ur verification an imperfect procedure and present it as perfect?

idolfree1 wrote
How do you verify that you are following truth? Or do you just believe whatever you are told?

reasoning!

how do u verify god? or do u believe in something u have not scientifically verified?

idolfree1 wrote
Quote
idolfree1 wrote
Yes, proof is required over blind belief. Whats the difference between that and some guy named "Muhammad" saying all that is in "Koran"?

that it was a mortal who decided the content of the quran is something u need to prove! -)

idolfree1 wrote
Should we blindly swallow one, and require proof for the other? How do you reason?

You did not answer this.

u have not presented a reference for ur claim that everything needs to be verified by experience! -)

for itself, the quran says its a revelation from god do u agree with with this assertion of quran?

if u claim that a mortal authored the book....then the book contains forgery....so which do u choose? that the quran is from god? or is it a forgery?

idolfree1 wrote
So you dont want to answer the question?

ur comment rests on the premise that 'god demands that u should ask proof for everything'! however, as v see, the verse u quoted was only presenting half the picture...instead it demanded proof from those who asserted a thing contradictory to god's revelations!

so u still need to reference ur claim that god has asked to demand a proof for everything! -)

idolfree1 wrote
I am saying that all books are written by man, they dont fall out of the sky. However, any book that is TRUTHFUL and does not conatin falsehood is, by default, from the God.

so is the quran truthful, is it from god?

idolfree1 wrote
Once I finish verifying all of its statements I will give you your answer, however I believe it is from the God, I just don't KNOW yet. But I have verified plenty to keep me busy until I verifythe rest.

according to u, unless u scientifically verify something, u cannot be in certitude...since u do not know as yet...u are in doubt about the content of the book..is that correct?

but the book itself says that it does not contain anything dubious...does it? also, have u found something dubious in it?

have u scientifically verified god? do share ur verification! -)

peace be upon u -)

unknownuser

Hi alarh0m,
I'll answer ur questions but can I understand ur view point clearly, first? It would help if U answer the following questions I previously asked u.

Hi Alarh0m,

1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.

R u saying upholding this is wrong?
R u saying people should practice blind faith and blind actions? That people should not use their mind to decide what they ought to do, follow, believe? ???

Peace!

kestrel

that brings us back to what i asked u earlier do u affirm/deny that the quran is the word of god? give a scientifically verified answer which leaves u doubtless! -)

Once I finish verifying all of its statements I will give you your answer, however I believe it is from the God, I just don't KNOW yet. But I have verified plenty to keep me busy until I verifythe rest.

rotfl rotfl rotfl

I ve met so many hell ceatures but I havent seen one like idolfree...

he is a real masterpiece... D

hey brother idolfree, I wonder how much time will it take you to verify the rest of the statements in Koran ? D

For example, have you verified scientifically that Ebu-Leheb was a kafir? yay

Or have you verified scientifically that Jesus has begotten without a father? yay

Now, joking apart, answer the following

Do you really KNOW that tomorrow the gravitational acceleration will be 9,81 m2/sec or do you just believe (or assume) that it will be so as it has been so until now?

unknownuser

Peace Kestrel )

phoenix1

peace,

agree with Idolfree. We must make an effort to verify everything, including the quran.

And Kestrel, we do not need to set up a controlled scientific experiment in a laboratory to verify a certain piece of information. Many times, the empirical evidence is already in our head (our life). All we need to do is connect a couple of dots. If you can't do that, or don't want to do that, then you are no different then Abu Lahab (who probably followed some other holy teachings without verification).
I don't know why when the word "verify" is mentioned, people start picturing a lab with test tubes in it. seriously, learn what verify means and use your head to understand what someone is trying to say. Instead of posting useless information with smileys after every sentence. O0
Because everyone can do that. offtopic
so grow up. bravo. please. confused

thegod

kestrel wrote
I ve met so many hell ceatures but I havent seen one like idolfree...

dont be so harsh....he may have his own views....but in the very least he speaks for himself unlike some others here who do not have the ability to defend or refute so only take to following others in what they say without providin any arguments of their own!

unknownuser

Peace kestrel. Idol-free,from his posts,is one of the most original,open-minded,honest,brave,and enlightened members on this forum......Rather than a hell-creature,he is probably a 'peace-loving' creature... bravo
Peace all.

agentxxx

peace enquirer,

Peace kestrel. Idol-free,from his posts,is one of the most original,open-minded,honest,brave,and enlightened members on this forum......Rather than a hell-creature,he is probably a 'peace-loving' creature...

enquirer i agree 100% with your opinion regarding idolfree1 )

peace.

unknownuser

Peace All

I can see that on this web site there are very well Quran informed muslims

keep it up brothers

thegod

almarh0m wrote
It gives me no Joy to write this post , but i feel i must do it. The un-healthy Obsession about Verse 1736 in respect of Verification seems to be getting out of hand. Do we have to Personally Verify everything before we believe it to be true ?

so coming to ur question no....we have thus far not seen anything in the quran which asks people to personally experience everything therein before believing by it! nor does god state anywhere to demand proofs for every quranic verse before believing in the quran!

infact the quran talks about those who believe by the gayb...then if god were to want u to verify everything...it would be asking a contradiction of u! it seems some of the verses like 2111 and 2147 have been misunderstood (and mistranslated) by some, which is causing a bit of confusion!

coming to 1736, 1 of the tools employed by the distracters of quran is to try to isolate its verses out of context so as to present a different picture, and the verse (1736) is perhaps another example of such isolation! a series of 'dos and donts', termed as hikmat, starts from 1722 and continues till 1739, of which 1736 is a part who believe by the quran are not to be upholders of that regarding which has not come 'ilm'!

example...4157 god does not take us back in time to verify for us whether or not christ was killed...it simply informs us that christ was not killed...then whoso upholds that christ was killed does so without 'ilm'! and v are not to be such upholders!

CavemanDoctor

Peace Ahmed.

Thanks for your post on 37. Makesa lot of sense.

kestrel

Peace friend,

agree with Idolfree. We must make an effort to verify everything, including the quran.

Phoenix, nobody is against this.But the discussion is about the un-healthy obsession about verse 1736, if we have to personally verify everything before we believe it to be true ? There are numerous things that an individual can never personally verify.Now keeping this in mind go and re-read my message plz.

And Kestrel, we do not need to set up a controlled scientific experiment in a laboratory to verify a certain piece of information. Many times, the empirical evidence is already in our head (our life).

friend, all these have nothing to do with what i wanted to say.my point is that you cant even verify that physical laws are constant over time so how can you verify ALL of the statements of Koran.You would say "g=9,81 m2/sec for all times" is a scientific fact, however it is rather a strong belief.How can you be sure gravity wont become a repulsive force tomorrow morning.

use your head to understand what someone is trying to say.

yes, plz use your head to understand what I'm trying to say.

so grow up. . please.

yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay

sorry but I'm happy with the child in me. D

yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay

peace...

kestrel

peace

Those who reject the information that Mohammed is messenger of God are kafirs.(4150). And kafirs among people of scripture are worst of creatures. ( 986)

Peace kestrel. Idol-free,from his posts,is one of the most original,open-minded,honest,brave,and enlightened members on this forum......Rather than a hell-creature,he is probably a 'peace-loving' creature... bravo
Peace all.

Sorry boys, but I cant call those people "peace-loving creatures", knowing that Allah called them "the worst of the creatures".No matter how original,open-minded,honest,brave,and enlightened they are, kafirs are kafirs.

unknownuser

Peace Ahmed.

Thanks for your post on 37. Makesa lot of sense.

no worries

cheers

KGB

Lets start verifying the verses of Qur'an

12 Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameena

How many Worlds are there in Universe? Verify this and provide scientific proof of the other worlds.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you KGB,

12 Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameena

How many Worlds are there in Universe? Verify this and provide scientific proof of the other worlds.

First you have to verify that Aalameena refers to "knowldgeable", not "worlds". If you dont verify you will be searching in the wrong direction.

unknownuser

Peace all. So a person could say jesus is the only son of god,without verification,and if you questioned him as to why he believed that,he could say; 'its part of my faith in the ghayb',(unseen.) ,or he could say; 'its written in gods book'.(the bible.) How does one get out of that conundrum?
Peace all.

KGB

Peace be upon you Kyle

Following are the transalations which have translated alAAalameena' as world or universe. alAAalameena' does not mean knowledgeable. This is not an convincing answer.

Khalifa - Praise be to GOD, Lord of the universe.
Yusuf Ali - Praise be to God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the world;
Pickthal - Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
Shakir - All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
Sher Ali - All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds,
"Progressive Muslims" - Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds.

The verse simply lost the meaning with your translation knowledgable. There are more proof in the Qur'an that it does mean worlds but trying to keep it simple by not bringing all the verses.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you KGB,

This is not an convincing answer.

I wasnt trying to convince you , just bringing my argument. Those who refuse to gather knowledge, but rely on blind belief, well....I dont know who thier Lord is.

"..My LORD, increase me in KNOWledge.."

I would be grateful however if you could bring the verses you spoke of.

KGB

Peace be upon you Kyle

This means you are the only one has the knowledge and wisdom to change the meaning of simple meaning of words. All other translations translated this word as worlds. Knowledge is not my God. Allah the One and only is my God. It looks to me that you started worshoping your own big ego.

Not right now. Lets first settle the meaning of this one simple verse here.